Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Craig C. 01-06-05, 03:19 PM	Recently, a lot of new WotC D&D 3.5 books have been published. Libris Mortis, MM3, Complete Arcane, Serpent Kingdoms, Frostburn, Planar Handbook, Shining South, etc. When added to the ranks of monsters resident in the MM2, FF, Miniature's Handbook, BoVD, BoED, Unapproachable East, Underdark, etc. ... what monsters are good examples of well-written, extremely powerful (for their relevant CR cost) adversaries? Remember, we are looking at non-core monsters. Undercosted and underrated monsters are welcome as well. Ones that are proving to be extremely difficult to kill or have extremely powerful abilities or suites of abilities that are making them deadly party-killers. :devil: :88E: :dragon: Let's hear the roll-call!
x-Wraith-x 01-06-05, 07:16 PM	One word: Asmodeus. From Book of Vile Darkness, not terribly new, but soooo powerful. Then again you probably allready know this.
obrysii 01-06-05, 07:37 PM	The two Inevitables from Fiend Folio.
Megrim_Lord 01-06-05, 07:57 PM	Personally, I love the Death Tyrant as a DM. Beholders were hell to deal with when they were mere abberations, but the thought of facing an undead beholder makes me want to scream (and will hopefully make my players scream).
E-Arkham 01-06-05, 09:45 PM	Ragewalker from MMIII. Considerably more potent than the CR indicates, thanks to those multitudes of wall spells. It can basically seperate each party member and rip them apart one by one... that is, when the fighters in the group aren't already doing it due to a failed will save. If not for the fact that the main fighter was a total tank (a Dragon Disciple-based build, in fact) and simply able to outlast the Ragewalker, it would have been a TPK when I threw it against my regular group. It was the BEST... FIGHT... EVAH. :D Kep
Mr.Black 01-06-05, 10:00 PM	The most powerful monsters are not always well written, so I'll just list the ones that I think are really strong for their CR. MMII Bone Naga: For a CR 11 you get a 14th level sorcerer with SR and DR. Braxat: It has mindblank at will. If you put one in an organization of bad guys then your PCs can never use enchantments against them again. Adamantine Clockwork Horror: Disintegrate and Mord's Disjunction at will and extra hp in 3.5. Malebranche Devil: Physically overwhelming for CR 9 with flying capabilities. Grell: 10 attacks that paralyze. Flight, blindsight, and and okay hide skill. I played in a group that was nearly TPKed by one. Immoth: It effectively has 3.0 haste with its' ice runes. Thus, it can cast two spells a round. Spell Weaver: They have low hp, but they can stack the odds in their favor by being invisible most of the time and going in buffed up. After that the PCs have to deal with 30 magic missiles at a time, or 9 scorching rays or whatever the DM can think of. Monster of Legend Template and Half Golem template: Any template that can make a low will save monster pretty much immune to mind affecting effects is a strong template. I'll look at another book later.
Dackad 01-06-05, 10:44 PM	I'll look at another book later. It's kinda sad when all of those are from just one book. :D
Ogre4Hire 01-07-05, 02:39 PM	The !!!! Elder Storm Elemental in MM3. One-Shot of 36D6 damage with a huge save DC at CR 12. In the likely event that it can position itself someplace that the blast hits most of the party, it's likely that the weaker characters will be flattened by the blast. Then you factor in it's Shock ability, plus the extra electricity damage its slams deal... And you quickly realize that it's far more powerful than any of the Elder Elementals in the MM, despite having the same CR.
Nuntius128 01-07-05, 03:01 PM	Black Stone Gigant(FF) with either of the following templates: Corrupted, or Sanctified. Argh! So powerful. If you want to, advance their HD, as that makes them stupidly powerful. High enough HD, and you can petrify a Tarrasque in one try
creepy drifter 01-09-05, 02:40 AM	wow! great suggestions here. our party just got serisouly smacked upside the head against a Tall Mouther. it's in the Shining South book. for a CR5 creature, it tore apart our hexblade frontliner in 1 round, and killed the sorceror and cleric as well. me - the rogue - got a successful hide and snuck away. it's deadly! check out its 15' reach!!!!!!
Waylander 01-09-05, 03:13 AM	Jauggernaut from MM II... nasty vs spellcasters and fighters.
Aranamarunda 01-09-05, 07:35 AM	The Arrow Demon from MM III His dimension door at will ability is really strong! That combines with a nor,mal attack of two arrows, instead of the normal one, and being able to flank with the bow, not getting AoO against him with a bow. Getting AoO himself with the bow, and 4 attacks as a full attack action, not to mention the damage it does... It is strong, espacially when you have two to four of them :D
The Final Dream 01-09-05, 01:28 PM	The Ibradlin, from Monsters of Faerun, is far to powerful for a CR 5 monster. It's beatable at 5th level, but only because it can't deal with flying opponents. It can slaughter an unprepared 5th level party in 3 rounds. It's closer to CR 8 or 9 than 5.
helicopter 01-11-05, 11:20 AM	i'll second the Ibrandlin - it's a tuff monster. i'll also mention that the Cranial Rat Swarm is IMPOSSIBLE to beat for its CR. if your group. the mind blast ability coupled with all its other swarm abilities is just too much. deadly! all 3 versions
Lionhearted 01-11-05, 11:55 AM	underrestimated but deadly! the kobold take your players by surprise and send in 3 ninja kobolds (doesn't expect resistance from kobolds) sneak! ouch! slam, chrash and so on dead players or a kobold with a belt of dragon might (classique)
Ogre4Hire 01-11-05, 02:23 PM	:doh: Knights of the Dinner Table. I once saw a Kobold get a TPK. Of course, he had a Necklace of Fireballs somehow managed to detonate all of them at the same time. I avoided that DM from then on.
Dev_Riven 01-11-05, 09:33 PM	In a wierd campaign where two planes enter in collision while Nerull was trying to send undeads to control the planes and get to the the second plane (no more explication, it doesn't matter), I've put 4 Necromental Monolith (Elemental Monolith from Complete Arcana + Necromental Template from Libris Mortis, one of each element :devil: ). Beautifull lot of damage, plus enough negative levels to make players cry :) oh and if they die they raise later as CR 18 Necromantal !!! :devil:
lordofblah 01-11-05, 09:58 PM	The Naztharune Rakshasa from MMIII. This thing is nasty. Its CR 11 but only LA +5. I just put one together for my next game. DR 15- Good/piercing. SR 21+ character level. Detect thoughts, alter self, shadow jump, sneak attack, Improved uncanny dodge, improved evasion. Most of the time when you only have 1 bad guy verses the group the bad guy gets killed but the way my group is stacked I think this guy could take them all by him self. Plus the picture is cool...and if a monster dosen't have a cool pic I don't run it.
Bandit_Raist 01-12-05, 11:43 PM	well lets see..... dragons of great wyrm status.... Please, a great wyrm golds are considered some of the most powerful entitys on the material plane and more powerful then some ArchDukes of Hell and some demon princes, 26 my arse
creepy drifter 01-13-05, 12:33 PM	um .. the starter of this thread wants non-core monsters here. not kobolds or great wyrm gold dragons. meaning no Monster Manual I stuff. ahem.
Rando the spiffy 01-13-05, 01:53 PM	either the great wyrm SHadow Dragon from the Draconomicon/monsters of fareun, or the Pyroclastic Dragon at any age category.
Lionhearted 01-13-05, 02:26 PM	non core neh? well i'm not that guy that owns every book in the multiverse (due i would like to have the REAL book of vile darkness ) so I has really no answer to that
El_Machinae 01-13-05, 06:09 PM	I'm quite fond of the Avolakai from MMII. They are really quite powerful, I really like their fluff, and they have so many different abilities that they can do whatever they want. Can you imagine being a deity where your clerics average 21 WIS? That would be awesome.
R-man 01-15-05, 05:08 AM	I cannot remember the name of the creature, but it is from either the manual of the planes or the players guide to the planes. The creature is native to the Beastlands and is CR4-6?, it appears as an Elk with three sets of antlers one on the head, one on the shoulder and one midway down the back. Its charge is for massive damage and it has planeshift ability vs. those who threaten it. Always read the description of the creatures you are putting up against your players!
R-man 01-15-05, 05:08 AM	I cannot remember the name of the creature, but it is from either the manual of the planes or the players guide to the planes. The creature is native to the Beastlands and is CR4-6?, it appears as an Elk with three sets of antlers one on the head, one on the shoulder and one midway down the back. Its charge is for massive damage and it has planeshift ability vs. those who threaten it. Always read the description of the creatures you are putting up against your players!
Snow Savant 01-15-05, 03:59 PM	As a DM, I've now twice used the Cranium Rat Swarm (MM2 or FF book). Both the small and the medium version (I have not ran the large version yet). In both cases, I got severe party casualties and actually had to let the PC's escape as I'm not a big fan of TPK's. Both parties fought smartly and had acceptable-to-decent rolls. And there was not a damn thing they could do to properly defend themselves against the combinatorial offensive output of these mind-blasting swarmies. And note, I played them straight up against equivalent CR based parties. XO, Snow :cloud9:
helicopter 02-10-05, 09:19 PM	the Drowned from monster manual 3 ripped our 9th level party a new one. and thats WITH errata to the CR. very very powerful crieature.
Kitsuna 02-10-05, 10:13 PM	I've always heard bad things about the Ruby Golem, no idea which book.... but because only Sonic Damage can hurt it (Heals any amount otherwise), that limits your options a bit sometimes.
Craig C. 03-07-05, 09:59 PM	If any of you can figure out how a normal 5th level party can destroy an incorporeal undead swarm with 90 HP --- I'd sure like to hear how you can do it! The Ephemeral Swarm from MM3 is well-nigh unbeatable at CR5. Besides being a kick-ass swarm, they are incorporeal and do Strength damage. Seriously, how does a 5th level party off this thing??
The Vorpal Tribble 03-07-05, 11:35 PM	I'd mention some critters from the Expanded Psionics Handbook but its core... so I'll say the Phaerimm from Monsters of Faerun. I just think the thing is pretty cool. Evil windsock :D
Morwen 03-08-05, 12:16 AM	The Naztharune Rakshasa from MMIII. This thing is nasty. Its CR 11 but only LA +5. I just put one together for my next game. Remember the 11 Racial Hit Dice as well. You can't play one at less than character level 16 (17 if you add 1 class level).
HomebrewedMonster 03-08-05, 02:28 AM	Web golem, I wailed a party with this guy. He's one mean CR 7.
Knight_of_spades 03-08-05, 08:43 AM	For cheap :banghead: power the Phaerlin Giants are a bargain at cr 3. They are certainly much tougher than ogres! (I think that the cr might be a typo its that much off)
Count Arioch the 28th 03-08-05, 10:50 AM	I'm pretty sure that XPH is non core in this respect, so you can use it. I'd say the Monstrous crab from a Wizards.com web enhancement would count as powerful for it's CR: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040221a Second one in the page. If one of these things jumps you unexpectedly, you're in for a hard scrap. I suggest that anyone running in to one of these things try their damnedest to stay out of melee, because you will lose.
HomebrewedMonster 03-08-05, 03:42 PM	I'm pretty sure that XPH is non core in this respect, so you can use it. I'd say the Monstrous crab from a Wizards.com web enhancement would count as powerful for it's CR: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040221a Second one in the page. If one of these things jumps you unexpectedly, you're in for a hard scrap. I suggest that anyone running in to one of these things try their damnedest to stay out of melee, because you will lose. Geez, that thing is wicked. That could easily be a 4.
kliate 03-08-05, 04:08 PM	Dire maggots...especially with their size errata.
Dirty Dan the Laundry Man 03-08-05, 05:23 PM	i agree on the Ephemeral Swarm and Monstrous Crab suggestions. I don't think any average party (or decently min-maxed one) could take either of them out. As far as the Web Golem, well === any golem is easily taken out using standard anti-golem tactics. which are pretty well known and documented in the other forums.
green_yawgmoth 03-08-05, 06:07 PM	The slaughterking out of the BoVD is an extremely difficult fight for a CR 13, from what I hear. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
LukiLoki 03-08-05, 06:41 PM	Abyssal Ghoul (FF) Undead, nasty sneak attack AND paralysis Caryatid Column (FF) Sunder, sunder, sunder Clockwork Horror (FF) Way powerful for the CRs Slaughterstone Eviscerator (MM3) Never run one, but jeez. Fomorian (MM2) An old fave, done right, tho' I think CR 11 is about right. War Troll (MM3) The daze attack is just nasty. Of course, everyone thinks The Drowned from MM2 is the uber new undead. I've not used it, but it does look like it could cause some problems for unprepared PCs.
Vatras 03-08-05, 10:16 PM	The shadow demon from BoVD is still the best bang for your buck (incorporeal undead who does only vile damage with all kinds of immunities and specials).
creepy drifter 07-04-05, 07:24 PM	We played a shadow demon last night -- and lost horribly to it! The vile damage is indeed problematic. Forcing you to shut down any further adventuring until it is all healed up.
Seyluun 07-04-05, 07:44 PM	If you don't mind changing its natural habitat to somewhere closed (because of its lack of ranged attack), the Cadaver Collector (MM3) is a killer. Unbeatable SR wich automatically turns lv3 and lower spells, attacks wich will never miss followed with near-automatic impalement causing tremendous damage to the helpless victims.
Kessalin Talira 07-04-05, 08:02 PM	Eldritch Giant from MM3... brutal, absolutely brutal. Quickened Greater Dispel 3/day, Greater Dispel at will, Quickened D-Door 3/day... globe of invulnerability... all from a 20th level caster. That's just an average member of the race. Add that to the physical stats: ~340 hit points, AC 32, four melee attacks a round starting at +33... it's SO easy to drop 5 into Power Attack and swing their bastard sword two-handed. Probably in my top three monsters from the MM3, and an insane CR 15.
obrysii 07-04-05, 09:02 PM	Ironwyrm Golems. Nearly completely immune to all magical attacks (including spell-likes and supernaturals) combined with the melee capabilities of a dragon = extremely powerful. Probably an accurate CR, however.
The Vorpal Tribble 07-04-05, 11:47 PM	My party consisted of a: 7th level warlock human 6/1 fighter/tempest human 3/4 ranger/rogue half elf 3rd level monk thri-kreen (ECL 7) 6th level blue goblin psion (ECL 7) 5/3 druid/wizard elf Who almost got their rears handed to them by a Tsochar from Lords of Madness, a CR 4 critter. Nearly killed three of the players before it was reduced to slag by the warlock, which only worked because the tsochar made a bad roll when the goblin manifested Entangling Ectoplasm on it and it couldn't dodge. Absolutely crazy :mymy:
Elven Doritos 07-05-05, 12:16 AM	Of course, everyone thinks The Drowned from MM2 is the uber new undead. I've not used it, but it does look like it could cause some problems for unprepared PCs. Minor Correction: From the MM3. And yes, they can be a beast.... almost lost my evoker for the third time that session to one. (Others were to a wyvern who landed on me and started Con damaging and some other terrible threat).
Sarlax 07-05-05, 03:32 AM	The Deepspawn (first in Monsters of Faerun and revised in Lost Empires of Faerun) are the most powerful monsters. They can eat any "Large or smaller corporeal, living creatures native to the Material Plane" which "possess even the learned abilities" of the original. These spawn are "fanatically loyal to the deepspawn." And they can crank out as many as they want, waiting only 4d6 days between spawnings. They can do this with dragons. Lycanthropes. Mind flayers. Beholders. A deepspawn could eat an archmage and make a hundred copies of him.
Muaythaidaddy 08-14-05, 01:19 PM	I second the Avolakai..........
Great Cthulhu 08-14-05, 10:14 PM	I've always heard bad things about the Ruby Golem, no idea which book.... but because only Sonic Damage can hurt it (Heals any amount otherwise), that limits your options a bit sometimes. The ruby golem is from Monsters of Faerun. I've never run it, but it sounds devilish everytime I read its stats. Wicker men from the FF can be very tough, despite their CR of only 11. One killed off two members of a 13th level party by stuffing them in their cages and igniting themselves on fire. (However, that could be partly because the party forgot about constructs' fire resistance and thought that they'd burn up eventually.) :mage: I know that you mentioned you want only WotC monsters, but if you want some really deadly creatures, check Privateer Press's Monsternomicon. A single infernal from that book killed off an entire party. :devil:
Gilean 08-15-05, 11:40 AM	Not quite WotC, the Gates of Hell (http://community.dicefreaks.com/viewtopic.php?t=88) by Dicefreaks has some nasty creatures (some of high CRs). Also see the unrevised chapters.
Wyrd Bearer 08-15-05, 12:10 PM	The Ulgurstasta from pg 180 of the Fiend Folio. CR 11 undead with SR 21, DR 10/magic and piercing, immune to the less common energies, can vomit up skeletons (up to 2 huge skeletons!), its once a day breathe weapon deals 3d6 points of Con DRAIN(!!!!!), a swallow whole attack where if it hasn't used its breathe weapon the person swallowed takes 3d6 Con drain a round and to top it off, anyone coming within 40 ft of it takes 1d12 points of damage a round and -2 penalty on their attacks. Plus, the normal one has an Int of 18 because its very smart. So if can plan devious traps and act intelligently in combat. Ick.
Voila! 08-24-05, 04:22 AM	I personally think some of the abominations are really powerful for their CR, even at epic levels. Particularly the phane. It has an attack which doesn't require a roll to hit or allow a save that deals 14d6. The tarrasque is powerful at any level, just give it a few more Hit Dice and watch it go. Beholders also seem like a bit much. They have so many abilities and while they can't bring them all to bear in one direction, they can still deal incredible damage. I mean, the disintegration ray alone.
DuskyFruit 08-24-05, 04:34 AM	One really mean monster is the mummy, I've found them extremely powerful for their CR, once had 3 lvl. 12 characters running out of a combat with only 2 ordinary mummies and they are only CR 5-6