Faery Dragon [Archive] - Wizards Community

Faery Dragon [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
scott644
11-21-03, 11:51 AM I love the book! However, I want to say I feel they didn't do the faery dragon any kind of justice. In the original game it had age categories just the same as the rest, with an emphasis on magical development rather than combat. Now, they're tough in a fight yes, but potentially rather weak in the spells and no age categories whatsoever!

Why?
Sprain Ogre
11-21-03, 12:06 PM Damn, I was going to post a Faerie Dragon Complaint first...

To add on to what has already been said, how the HELL could Wizards narf the image too??? In the Ed, they were (more or less) limbed sea-horses with butterfly wings, now, they're eals with really long fins. And why in God's (whichever one, or ones, you prefer) name do they get up to frik'en HUGE size?!? HUGE!!!! They should start out around diminutive and work hard and long towards small when they hit great wyrm!! I love the Draconomicon, it's one of my new favorite books, except for the Faerie Dragon, which just sucks now............

(Hey, if anyone has a image of the 2nd ed Fairy dragon in digital format, could you let me know, I'm thinking about making a tape in revision for my copy Draconomicon, and it would save me the trouble of hunting it down...)
scott644
11-21-03, 04:30 PM Hmmm... maybe we should repair the Faerie Dragon in here?
Adrez Nesnsid
11-21-03, 05:50 PM Originally posted by scott644
Hmmm... maybe we should repair the Faerie Dragon in here?
That sounds like a good plan
Incenjucar
11-21-03, 07:11 PM No matter what, it would end up much more powerful than the 2e version, if only via HP, heh.
Eagle Prince
11-21-03, 08:13 PM I like the faerie dragon picture. Not sure they need true dragon age catagories, but I would like to see them have a constant greater invisibility trait like pixies have.
scott644
11-21-03, 11:39 PM I feel they should be considered true dragons - just the smallest of them all.

hmmm...

keep the breath weapon (modify duration by hit dice minus 1 additional rounds), add the improved invisibility at wyrmling stage, lose the fear effect...

by age category...

Age_________Size____Hit Dice__AC
Wyrmling_____D______1D12 +1___20_(+4 size, +6 dex)
Very Young___D______1D12 +1___19_(+4 size, +5 dex)
Young________D______2D12 +2___20 (+4 size, +5 dex, +1 nat)
Juvenile_____D______2D12 +2___20 (+4 size, +5 dex, +1 nat)
Young Adult__T______3D12 +3___19 (+2 size, +5 dex, +2 nat)
Adult________T______3D12 +3___19 (+2 size, +5 dex, +2 nat)
Mature Adult_T______4D12 +4___20 (+2 size, +5 dex, +3 nat)
Old__________T______4D12 +4___19 (+2 size, +4 dex, +3 nat)
Very Old_____S______5D12 +5___19 (+1 size, +4 dex, +4 nat)
Ancient______S______5D12 +5___19 (+1 size, +4 dex, +4 nat)
Wyrm_________S______6D12 +6___20 (+1 size, +4 dex, +5 nat)
Great Wyrm___S______6D12 +6___20 (+1 size, +4 dex, +5 nat)

Age_________Attack_Fort_Ref_Will_SR
Wyrmling_____+3_____+2__+2___+2__11
Very Young___+4_____+2__+2___+2__11
Young________+5_____+3__+3___+3__12
Juvenile_____+5_____+3__+3___+3__12
Young Adult__+4_____+3__+3___+3__13
Adult________+5_____+3__+3___+3__13
Mature Adult_+6_____+4__+4___+4__14
Old__________+6_____+4__+4___+4__14
Very Old_____+6_____+4__+4___+4__15
Ancient______+7_____+4__+4___+4__15
Wyrm_________+8_____+5__+5___+5__16
Great Wyrm___+8_____+5__+5___+5__16

Age_________Speed
Wyrmling_____15, fly 50 (perfect), swim 15
Very Young___15, fly 50 (perfect), swim 15
Young________15, fly 50 (perfect), swim 15
Juvenile_____15, fly 50 (perfect), swim 15
Young Adult__20, fly 75 (perfect), swim 20
Adult________20, fly 75 (perfect), swim 20
Mature Adult_20, fly 75 (perfect), swim 20
Old__________20, fly 75 (perfect), swim 20
Very Old_____30, fly 100 (perfect), swim 30
Ancient______30, fly 100 (perfect), swim 30
Wyrm_________30, fly 100 (perfect), swim 30
Great Wyrm___30, fly 100 (perfect), swim 30

Age_________Str_Dex_Con_Int_Wis_Cha_Lvl
Wyrmling______7_22__12__12__14__12___-
Very Young____8_21__12__12__15__13__1st
Young_________8_21__12__12__15__14__2nd
Juvenile______9_21__12__13__16__15__4th
Young Adult___9_20__12__13__16__16__6th
Adult________10_20__12__13__17__16__8th
Mature Adult_10_20__12__14__17__17_10th
Old__________11_19__12__14__18__17_12th
Very Old_____11_19__12__14__18__18_14th
Ancient______12_19__12__15__19__18_16th
Wyrm_________12_18__12__15__19__19_18th
Great Wyrm___13_18__12__15__20__19_20th

* Faerie Dragons may cast spells from the druid spell list as arcane spells

Age__________Special
Wyrmling_____Swim bonus, Improved invisibility, speak with animals
Very Young___Dancing Lights, detect magic, ghost sound
Young________Entangle
Juvenile_____Glitterdust
Young Adult__Charm monster
Adult________Obscuring mist
Mature Adult_Major Image
Old__________Animate Objects
Very Old_____Mind fog
Ancient______Project image
Wyrm_________Summon nature's ally IV
Great Wyrm___Commune with nature

What do you think guys?
scott644
11-21-03, 11:41 PM By the way, if anybody in here knows how to work the commands an make the list look cleaner, please feel free to do so!

I did manage to edit it a bunch myself and get it so we have some semblence of spacing and no confusing wrap. Hope it reads better now!
Sprain Ogre
11-22-03, 12:08 AM Looks ok, and it never gets bigger then small........ let me look at it a bit more and see if anything else comes to me......
Shemeska the Marauder
11-22-03, 01:59 AM Can't forget the wish ability, and the affinity for apple tarts. :D

God I love those little critters. The PC's in my campaign for a short while had one hanging around their inn in Sigil, and whenever the little guy started to say, 'I wish...' they'd all go white worrying about what might happen. Never anything bad, and any wish that would have changed anything majorly simply failed, Sigil being Sigil. But filling a room with apple pie, and animating furniture got to be amusing to lighten up a rather in depth and oftentimes dark campaign.
scott644
11-22-03, 11:06 AM The wish comes at Wyrm or higher, if they choose it as one of their known spells.

Note, if you use the Epic rules, these could be allowed to progress artifically faster or past the 6 HD limit. At that point, I'd be inclined to allow the sizing up as they get more and more HD. That only makes sense, dragons being what they are. Still, you're looking at an epic dragon, which *should* exceed the normal boundaries.

But I cannot and shall not tolerate a game where the faerie dragon exists along the lines given in the Draconomicon. Any gm that insists on running those pathetic excuses, won't EVER hear me calling them that. I'll call 'em something like "eel dragons" and never ever treat them with the respect I would a true faerie dragon.
Count Arioch the 28th
11-22-03, 11:45 AM The picure looks disturbingly like how I envisioned the "Crap weasels" from the book "Dreamcatcher".
Aeolius
11-22-03, 12:03 PM If you make the faerie dragon a "true" dragon (as I have with the dragon turtle and sea drake), then you'll invite interesting possibilities for half-dragon offspring. ;)
scott644
11-23-03, 03:00 PM Hmm... being a true dragon and having the potential with their offspring....

Half-Faerie Dragon, same regular mods. Breath weapon being of course the euphoria gas. Immunity though? I'm thinking mind-affecting illusions.
SSj3goblin
11-23-03, 06:37 PM the fairy dragon from ToH was cool, i use it instead
Greyman
11-24-03, 06:36 PM Originally posted by scott644
By the way, if anybody in here knows how to work the commands an make the list look cleaner, please feel free to do so! Use the [ CODE ] tag.
Greyman
11-24-03, 06:37 PM Originally posted by scott644
by age category...

Age_________Size____Hit Dice__AC
Wyrmling_____D______1D12 +1___20_(+4 size, +6 dex)
Very Young___D______1D12 +1___19_(+4 size, +5 dex)
Young________D______2D12 +2___20 (+4 size, +5 dex, +1 nat)
Juvenile_____D______2D12 +2___20 (+4 size, +5 dex, +1 nat)
Young Adult__T______3D12 +3___19 (+2 size, +5 dex, +2 nat)
Adult________T______3D12 +3___19 (+2 size, +5 dex, +2 nat)
Mature Adult_T______4D12 +4___20 (+2 size, +5 dex, +3 nat)
Old__________T______4D12 +4___19 (+2 size, +4 dex, +3 nat)
Very Old_____S______5D12 +5___19 (+1 size, +4 dex, +4 nat)
Ancient______S______5D12 +5___19 (+1 size, +4 dex, +4 nat)
Wyrm_________S______6D12 +6___20 (+1 size, +4 dex, +5 nat)
Great Wyrm___S______6D12 +6___20 (+1 size, +4 dex, +5 nat)

Age_________Attack_Fort_Ref_Will_SR
Wyrmling_____+3_____+2__+2___+2__11
Very Young___+4_____+2__+2___+2__11
Young________+5_____+3__+3___+3__12
Juvenile_____+5_____+3__+3___+3__12
Young Adult__+4_____+3__+3___+3__13
Adult________+5_____+3__+3___+3__13
Mature Adult_+6_____+4__+4___+4__14
Old__________+6_____+4__+4___+4__14
Very Old_____+6_____+4__+4___+4__15
Ancient______+7_____+4__+4___+4__15
Wyrm_________+8_____+5__+5___+5__16
Great Wyrm___+8_____+5__+5___+5__16

Age_________Speed
Wyrmling_____15, fly 50 (perfect), swim 15
Very Young___15, fly 50 (perfect), swim 15
Young________15, fly 50 (perfect), swim 15
Juvenile_____15, fly 50 (perfect), swim 15
Young Adult__20, fly 75 (perfect), swim 20
Adult________20, fly 75 (perfect), swim 20
Mature Adult_20, fly 75 (perfect), swim 20
Old__________20, fly 75 (perfect), swim 20
Very Old_____30, fly 100 (perfect), swim 30
Ancient______30, fly 100 (perfect), swim 30
Wyrm_________30, fly 100 (perfect), swim 30
Great Wyrm___30, fly 100 (perfect), swim 30

Age_________Str_Dex_Con_Int_Wis_Cha_Lvl
Wyrmling______7_22__12__12__14__12___-
Very Young____8_21__12__12__15__13__1st
Young_________8_21__12__12__15__14__2nd
Juvenile______9_21__12__13__16__15__4th
Young Adult___9_20__12__13__16__16__6th
Adult________10_20__12__13__17__16__8th
Mature Adult_10_20__12__14__17__17_10th
Old__________11_19__12__14__18__17_12th
Very Old_____11_19__12__14__18__18_14th
Ancient______12_19__12__15__19__18_16th
Wyrm_________12_18__12__15__19__19_18th
Great Wyrm___13_18__12__15__20__19_20th

* Faerie Dragons may cast spells from the druid spell list as arcane spells

Age__________Special
Wyrmling_____Swim bonus, Improved invisibility, speak with animals
Very Young___Dancing Lights, detect magic, ghost sound
Young________Entangle
Juvenile_____Glitterdust
Young Adult__Charm monster
Adult________Obscuring mist
Mature Adult_Major Image
Old__________Animate Objects
Very Old_____Mind fog
Ancient______Project image
Wyrm_________Summon nature's ally IV
Great Wyrm___Commune with nature
JustKim
11-24-03, 07:55 PM Their speed shouldn't change with age category, dragon speed doesn't scale. Sometimes flight speed changes because a dragon becomes gargantuan or bigger, but from tiny to huge there's no change in speed. Just set it to 30'/Fly 100' (Perfect)/Swim 30'.
scott644
11-24-03, 09:47 PM I was going with the speed scaling with size thing. You say D to S doesn't change speed? Then they'll be 30/Fly 100(perfect)/Swim 30. :D
Clownaveli
11-24-03, 10:20 PM The picure looks disturbingly like how I envisioned the "Crap weasels" from the book "Dreamcatcher

:rofl: :heehee :rofl:
Clownaveli
11-24-03, 10:20 PM The picure looks disturbingly like how I envisioned the "Crap weasels" from the book "Dreamcatcher

:rofl: :heehee :rofl:
Amaron Blackthorn
11-25-03, 08:47 AM I also agree that the original faerie dragon wsa better thn this edition.
scott644
11-25-03, 10:08 AM Originally posted by Amaron Blackthorn
I also agree that the original faerie dragon wsa better thn this edition.

What confuses me, is how the faerie dragon could have originally been put forward as a variant of true dragon (albeit a small one), then be weakened and effectively demoted/insulted by given the status of lesser dragon.
Sprain Ogre
11-25-03, 04:36 PM Probably to steamline things, maybe the designers didn't like the faerie dragon in 2nd ed, who knows. They changed it, and we're changing it back.

Comment on the write up you have on it. Now, I don't have my 2nd ed MM about, and don't really feal like hunting it down, but you seem to have it pretty thin on hit dice. Is this how it was in 2nd ed? While I don't think he should get as many HD as a normal dragon, I think he needs a few more then that.... (OK, decided to dig out 2nd ED MM, they don't even get HD, they just get Hit points and are considere to be 4HD monsters, so the addtion of HD at all is a step in the right direction! Still, I'd maybe go a few more hit dice....) If I could suggest the following changes and addtions?

Age_________HD______Color______Breath Weapon(DC)
Wyrmling__1d12+1 (8)___Red_________1d4(11)
Very young_2d12+2 (15)_Red-Orange___1d4(12)
Young____2d12+2(15)__Orange_____1d4(12)
Juvenile__3d12+3(23)__Orange-Yellow__1d6(12)
Young adult_4d12+4(30)___Yellow______1d6(13)
Adult______4d12+4(30)__Yellow-Green__1d6(13)
Mature Adult__5d12+5(38)__Green______1d8(13)
Old________6d12+6(45)__Blue-Green___1d8(14)
Very Old_____6d12+6(45)____Blue______1d8(14)
Ancient_____7d12+7(53)___Blue-Violet__1d10(14)
Wyrm____8d12+8(60)____Violet___1d10(15)
Great wyrm__8d12+8(60)____Black_____1d10(15)

Breath Weapon (Su): A faerie dragons breath weapon is a 20-foot cone of euphoric gas. Anyone caught in the area is stunned unless they make a Will save.

Also, if I may make a stab at the CR (this is probably gonna be off a bit, so any input is welcome): Wyrmling 1/2; very young 1; young 2; juvenile 3; young adult 5; adult 6; mature adult 8; old 9; very old 10; ancient 12; wyrm 14; great wyrm 16.
(I tried to calculate in the HD, AC, special abilites and caster level. I think I still might be a little low, considering the 20th level caster abilities at Great Wyrm...)

I'm not about to take on the level adjustment....
scott644
11-25-03, 06:56 PM Actually, they're quite heavy on hit dice compared to 2ed. In 2ed these things got 1-2 hp per age category, maxing therefore at a fully pumped 3D8 hp. Not good. Your adjustment would increase the natural armor a bit by the way Sprain Ogre; most true dragons have natural armor equal to their hit dice minus one, which is what I used to figure these guys.

Now as for level adjustment?

SR +1
Natural Armor 0 through Very Young, +1 later
Abilities +1 through Adult, +2 later
Size -1
Spells 0 through Very Young, +1 through Mature Adult, +2 later
Spell-like abilities +1 through Adult, 0 later
Breath-weapon +1
Movement Flight (perfect) +2
Movement Swim +1, +2 in aquatic campaigns

Totals

Wyrmling to Very Young: +6, +7 in aquatic campaigns
Young to Mature Adult: +8, +9 in aquatic campaigns
Old to Great Wyrm: +9, +10 in aquatic campaigns

They're close enough in hit dice start to finish, those should be pretty close.

Using Sprain Ogre's hit dice progression (thanks for the colors by the way - I'd forgotten them) they'd have the base +6/+7 level adjustment only as wyrmlings, +7/+8 at very young, and be +10/+11 from Ancient on. This reflects the increase in natural armor for the higher hit dice. This may seem over-powered as the faerie dragon would be ECL 18/19 as a great wyrm. However, they suffer in the category of hit dice (and consequently attacks, saves, feats and skills) and I feel would honestly be behind most characters of ECL 19 or higher.

Favored class would of course be Faerie Dragon. Advancement as per rules for such (I've seen them in ELH, are there such rules in Dra?). I figure if they advance enough as dragon though, they should increase in size eventually. Small up to 9HD, then Medium at 10HD, and one size category per 6HD after that. Frankly, I don't see them advancing as dragons much however - being the pranksters they are I would see them taking character classess. Bard and rogue come to mind as most likely.

I think you should reconsider the CR however. The wyrmling has improved invisibility, flight with perfect maneuverability, level one sorceror casting, and a ranged breath weapon (albeit non-damaging). Combine this with the fact the challenge would typically be to see through their mischief rather than out-fight them, and you can see where the CR should probably be noticeably higher. I figure start at CR1 at wyrmling and go up from there.
Sprain Ogre
11-25-03, 09:52 PM You give them 1st level spells at very young... ;) As for the other adjustments based on hit dice, I just got lazy and didn't feel like doing them in that chart, if those HD alterations stick, then the numbers could be changed later in a more final version.

But you're right, they probably should have a touch higher of a CR. My players often complain about my CR guesstimits.... hehehehe :angel:

I think the level adjustment is good though, many high ECL critters are relativly low HD.... I think it would be really funny to see a faerie dragon advanced with this write up to huge, much less colossul.... That would be one SCARRY prankster.... :D
scott644
11-26-03, 10:51 AM Oh my goodness! Advancing to collossal?! :eek:

That would take about 30 or so hit dice of advancing - wow!

Just give 'em character classess.

Of course, if they did advance like that, they could qualify for Dragon Ascendant class at 30 hit dice.... A quasi-deity mischief dragon! Ooh I gotta run this! :D
Sprain Ogre
11-26-03, 01:34 PM Think of all the apple pies in it's hoard it would have to eat to get the gp requirement!!! :D
scott644
11-26-03, 03:30 PM That would be worth a size-up just from the gorging effect! lol
scott644
12-02-03, 07:06 PM Let's calculate this - how many apple pies would it take to make a faery dragon's hoarde for the gorge to go Dragon Ascendant?

hmmm... well their treasure would be standard as they're more pranksters than hoarders... I'll assume an apple pie would equate to a good meal. What's that? About 1sp? And then being advanced to 30hd, their CR would be about 15-20.

Hmmm.... I can imagine a faery dragon going for this prestige class just for the sheer indulgance of it! :D
Sprain Ogre
12-04-03, 02:58 AM :rofl:

That would be one HELL of a chuby Faery Dragon....
scott644
12-04-03, 01:52 PM Oh I don't know. A CR 20 encounter yields up 80k gp, so an 80,000gp hoard, translated to apple pies. An apple pie would be equal roughly to a common meal on its own - 3sp, so we do the math...

and have a grand total of 266, 666 and 2/3 apple pies.

While the magical effect of going Dragon Ascendant might prevent the weight gain, I suspect this guy's going to be the patron of smug, self-satisfied grins. :D
Sprain Ogre
12-05-03, 12:40 AM OK, now how many calories are in the average apple pie? Not to mention suggar.... while he WOULD be colosal, that is alot to take in.... so I'd say smug grins and sugar buzzes.....
scott644
12-05-03, 08:39 AM True enough. So he becomes the patron deity of food-induced hyperactivity? :smirk:
Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai
12-15-03, 01:22 PM A very helpfull thread, exept for one thing:
They are ECL 10, no? That means 10 max levels in a monstr class. The progression by age gives 12 "levels", so should i make it an ECL 12 species, or does anyone have an idea on how to squeeze it into 10 levels?

For incase you were ponderoing, a player of mine is going to play a faerydragon in a SavageSpecies-inspired campaign.
Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai
12-15-03, 01:22 PM .
Sprain Ogre
12-15-03, 01:40 PM Thing is, most dragons don't have a progression that fit
s in 20 level. They surpas the ECL 20 mark befor they reach adult status for the most part in fact. I wish I could advise more on the specifics of a level system for a faery dragon, but I haven't looked at those rules in awhile and would be lost....
scott644
12-15-03, 05:47 PM The thing is, you look at the hit dice and powers of the monster. Hit dice set the base, powers set the level adjustment, and the two go together for the ecl.

Then we look at dragon advancement. Dragons can advance ahead of age category - they gain hit dice and thus powers as they progress, advancing simply by the hit die once they exceed their great wyrm maximum.

The faery dragon has the base hit dice, then have a couple added levels in between for the level adjustment.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
scott644 11-21-03, 11:51 AM	I love the book! However, I want to say I feel they didn't do the faery dragon any kind of justice. In the original game it had age categories just the same as the rest, with an emphasis on magical development rather than combat. Now, they're tough in a fight yes, but potentially rather weak in the spells and no age categories whatsoever! Why?
Sprain Ogre 11-21-03, 12:06 PM	Damn, I was going to post a Faerie Dragon Complaint first... To add on to what has already been said, how the HELL could Wizards narf the image too??? In the Ed, they were (more or less) limbed sea-horses with butterfly wings, now, they're eals with really long fins. And why in God's (whichever one, or ones, you prefer) name do they get up to frik'en HUGE size?!? HUGE!!!! They should start out around diminutive and work hard and long towards small when they hit great wyrm!! I love the Draconomicon, it's one of my new favorite books, except for the Faerie Dragon, which just sucks now............ (Hey, if anyone has a image of the 2nd ed Fairy dragon in digital format, could you let me know, I'm thinking about making a tape in revision for my copy Draconomicon, and it would save me the trouble of hunting it down...)
scott644 11-21-03, 04:30 PM	Hmmm... maybe we should repair the Faerie Dragon in here?
Adrez Nesnsid 11-21-03, 05:50 PM	Originally posted by scott644 Hmmm... maybe we should repair the Faerie Dragon in here? That sounds like a good plan
Incenjucar 11-21-03, 07:11 PM	No matter what, it would end up much more powerful than the 2e version, if only via HP, heh.
Eagle Prince 11-21-03, 08:13 PM	I like the faerie dragon picture. Not sure they need true dragon age catagories, but I would like to see them have a constant greater invisibility trait like pixies have.
scott644 11-21-03, 11:39 PM	I feel they should be considered true dragons - just the smallest of them all. hmmm... keep the breath weapon (modify duration by hit dice minus 1 additional rounds), add the improved invisibility at wyrmling stage, lose the fear effect... by age category... Age_________Size____Hit Dice__AC Wyrmling_____D______1D12 +1___20_(+4 size, +6 dex) Very Young___D______1D12 +1___19_(+4 size, +5 dex) Young________D______2D12 +2___20 (+4 size, +5 dex, +1 nat) Juvenile_____D______2D12 +2___20 (+4 size, +5 dex, +1 nat) Young Adult__T______3D12 +3___19 (+2 size, +5 dex, +2 nat) Adult________T______3D12 +3___19 (+2 size, +5 dex, +2 nat) Mature Adult_T______4D12 +4___20 (+2 size, +5 dex, +3 nat) Old__________T______4D12 +4___19 (+2 size, +4 dex, +3 nat) Very Old_____S______5D12 +5___19 (+1 size, +4 dex, +4 nat) Ancient______S______5D12 +5___19 (+1 size, +4 dex, +4 nat) Wyrm_________S______6D12 +6___20 (+1 size, +4 dex, +5 nat) Great Wyrm___S______6D12 +6___20 (+1 size, +4 dex, +5 nat) Age_________Attack_Fort_Ref_Will_SR Wyrmling_____+3_____+2__+2___+2__11 Very Young___+4_____+2__+2___+2__11 Young________+5_____+3__+3___+3__12 Juvenile_____+5_____+3__+3___+3__12 Young Adult__+4_____+3__+3___+3__13 Adult________+5_____+3__+3___+3__13 Mature Adult_+6_____+4__+4___+4__14 Old__________+6_____+4__+4___+4__14 Very Old_____+6_____+4__+4___+4__15 Ancient______+7_____+4__+4___+4__15 Wyrm_________+8_____+5__+5___+5__16 Great Wyrm___+8_____+5__+5___+5__16 Age_________Speed Wyrmling_____15, fly 50 (perfect), swim 15 Very Young___15, fly 50 (perfect), swim 15 Young________15, fly 50 (perfect), swim 15 Juvenile_____15, fly 50 (perfect), swim 15 Young Adult__20, fly 75 (perfect), swim 20 Adult________20, fly 75 (perfect), swim 20 Mature Adult_20, fly 75 (perfect), swim 20 Old__________20, fly 75 (perfect), swim 20 Very Old_____30, fly 100 (perfect), swim 30 Ancient______30, fly 100 (perfect), swim 30 Wyrm_________30, fly 100 (perfect), swim 30 Great Wyrm___30, fly 100 (perfect), swim 30 Age_________Str_Dex_Con_Int_Wis_Cha_Lvl Wyrmling______7_22__12__12__14__12___- Very Young____8_21__12__12__15__13__1st Young_________8_21__12__12__15__14__2nd Juvenile______9_21__12__13__16__15__4th Young Adult___9_20__12__13__16__16__6th Adult________10_20__12__13__17__16__8th Mature Adult_10_20__12__14__17__17_10th Old__________11_19__12__14__18__17_12th Very Old_____11_19__12__14__18__18_14th Ancient______12_19__12__15__19__18_16th Wyrm_________12_18__12__15__19__19_18th Great Wyrm___13_18__12__15__20__19_20th * Faerie Dragons may cast spells from the druid spell list as arcane spells Age__________Special Wyrmling_____Swim bonus, Improved invisibility, speak with animals Very Young___Dancing Lights, detect magic, ghost sound Young________Entangle Juvenile_____Glitterdust Young Adult__Charm monster Adult________Obscuring mist Mature Adult_Major Image Old__________Animate Objects Very Old_____Mind fog Ancient______Project image Wyrm_________Summon nature's ally IV Great Wyrm___Commune with nature What do you think guys?
scott644 11-21-03, 11:41 PM	By the way, if anybody in here knows how to work the commands an make the list look cleaner, please feel free to do so! I did manage to edit it a bunch myself and get it so we have some semblence of spacing and no confusing wrap. Hope it reads better now!
Sprain Ogre 11-22-03, 12:08 AM	Looks ok, and it never gets bigger then small........ let me look at it a bit more and see if anything else comes to me......
Shemeska the Marauder 11-22-03, 01:59 AM	Can't forget the wish ability, and the affinity for apple tarts. :D God I love those little critters. The PC's in my campaign for a short while had one hanging around their inn in Sigil, and whenever the little guy started to say, 'I wish...' they'd all go white worrying about what might happen. Never anything bad, and any wish that would have changed anything majorly simply failed, Sigil being Sigil. But filling a room with apple pie, and animating furniture got to be amusing to lighten up a rather in depth and oftentimes dark campaign.
scott644 11-22-03, 11:06 AM	The wish comes at Wyrm or higher, if they choose it as one of their known spells. Note, if you use the Epic rules, these could be allowed to progress artifically faster or past the 6 HD limit. At that point, I'd be inclined to allow the sizing up as they get more and more HD. That only makes sense, dragons being what they are. Still, you're looking at an epic dragon, which should exceed the normal boundaries. But I cannot and shall not tolerate a game where the faerie dragon exists along the lines given in the Draconomicon. Any gm that insists on running those pathetic excuses, won't EVER hear me calling them that. I'll call 'em something like "eel dragons" and never ever treat them with the respect I would a true faerie dragon.
Count Arioch the 28th 11-22-03, 11:45 AM	The picure looks disturbingly like how I envisioned the "Crap weasels" from the book "Dreamcatcher".
Aeolius 11-22-03, 12:03 PM	If you make the faerie dragon a "true" dragon (as I have with the dragon turtle and sea drake), then you'll invite interesting possibilities for half-dragon offspring. ;)
scott644 11-23-03, 03:00 PM	Hmm... being a true dragon and having the potential with their offspring.... Half-Faerie Dragon, same regular mods. Breath weapon being of course the euphoria gas. Immunity though? I'm thinking mind-affecting illusions.
SSj3goblin 11-23-03, 06:37 PM	the fairy dragon from ToH was cool, i use it instead
Greyman 11-24-03, 06:36 PM	Originally posted by scott644 By the way, if anybody in here knows how to work the commands an make the list look cleaner, please feel free to do so! Use the [ CODE ] tag.
Greyman 11-24-03, 06:37 PM	Originally posted by scott644 by age category... Age_________Size____Hit Dice__AC Wyrmling_____D______1D12 +1___20_(+4 size, +6 dex) Very Young___D______1D12 +1___19_(+4 size, +5 dex) Young________D______2D12 +2___20 (+4 size, +5 dex, +1 nat) Juvenile_____D______2D12 +2___20 (+4 size, +5 dex, +1 nat) Young Adult__T______3D12 +3___19 (+2 size, +5 dex, +2 nat) Adult________T______3D12 +3___19 (+2 size, +5 dex, +2 nat) Mature Adult_T______4D12 +4___20 (+2 size, +5 dex, +3 nat) Old__________T______4D12 +4___19 (+2 size, +4 dex, +3 nat) Very Old_____S______5D12 +5___19 (+1 size, +4 dex, +4 nat) Ancient______S______5D12 +5___19 (+1 size, +4 dex, +4 nat) Wyrm_________S______6D12 +6___20 (+1 size, +4 dex, +5 nat) Great Wyrm___S______6D12 +6___20 (+1 size, +4 dex, +5 nat) Age_________Attack_Fort_Ref_Will_SR Wyrmling_____+3_____+2__+2___+2__11 Very Young___+4_____+2__+2___+2__11 Young________+5_____+3__+3___+3__12 Juvenile_____+5_____+3__+3___+3__12 Young Adult__+4_____+3__+3___+3__13 Adult________+5_____+3__+3___+3__13 Mature Adult_+6_____+4__+4___+4__14 Old__________+6_____+4__+4___+4__14 Very Old_____+6_____+4__+4___+4__15 Ancient______+7_____+4__+4___+4__15 Wyrm_________+8_____+5__+5___+5__16 Great Wyrm___+8_____+5__+5___+5__16 Age_________Speed Wyrmling_____15, fly 50 (perfect), swim 15 Very Young___15, fly 50 (perfect), swim 15 Young________15, fly 50 (perfect), swim 15 Juvenile_____15, fly 50 (perfect), swim 15 Young Adult__20, fly 75 (perfect), swim 20 Adult________20, fly 75 (perfect), swim 20 Mature Adult_20, fly 75 (perfect), swim 20 Old__________20, fly 75 (perfect), swim 20 Very Old_____30, fly 100 (perfect), swim 30 Ancient______30, fly 100 (perfect), swim 30 Wyrm_________30, fly 100 (perfect), swim 30 Great Wyrm___30, fly 100 (perfect), swim 30 Age_________Str_Dex_Con_Int_Wis_Cha_Lvl Wyrmling______7_22__12__12__14__12___- Very Young____8_21__12__12__15__13__1st Young_________8_21__12__12__15__14__2nd Juvenile______9_21__12__13__16__15__4th Young Adult___9_20__12__13__16__16__6th Adult________10_20__12__13__17__16__8th Mature Adult_10_20__12__14__17__17_10th Old__________11_19__12__14__18__17_12th Very Old_____11_19__12__14__18__18_14th Ancient______12_19__12__15__19__18_16th Wyrm_________12_18__12__15__19__19_18th Great Wyrm___13_18__12__15__20__19_20th * Faerie Dragons may cast spells from the druid spell list as arcane spells Age__________Special Wyrmling_____Swim bonus, Improved invisibility, speak with animals Very Young___Dancing Lights, detect magic, ghost sound Young________Entangle Juvenile_____Glitterdust Young Adult__Charm monster Adult________Obscuring mist Mature Adult_Major Image Old__________Animate Objects Very Old_____Mind fog Ancient______Project image Wyrm_________Summon nature's ally IV Great Wyrm___Commune with nature
JustKim 11-24-03, 07:55 PM	Their speed shouldn't change with age category, dragon speed doesn't scale. Sometimes flight speed changes because a dragon becomes gargantuan or bigger, but from tiny to huge there's no change in speed. Just set it to 30'/Fly 100' (Perfect)/Swim 30'.
scott644 11-24-03, 09:47 PM	I was going with the speed scaling with size thing. You say D to S doesn't change speed? Then they'll be 30/Fly 100(perfect)/Swim 30. :D
Clownaveli 11-24-03, 10:20 PM	The picure looks disturbingly like how I envisioned the "Crap weasels" from the book "Dreamcatcher :rofl: :heehee :rofl:
Clownaveli 11-24-03, 10:20 PM	The picure looks disturbingly like how I envisioned the "Crap weasels" from the book "Dreamcatcher :rofl: :heehee :rofl:
Amaron Blackthorn 11-25-03, 08:47 AM	I also agree that the original faerie dragon wsa better thn this edition.
scott644 11-25-03, 10:08 AM	Originally posted by Amaron Blackthorn I also agree that the original faerie dragon wsa better thn this edition. What confuses me, is how the faerie dragon could have originally been put forward as a variant of true dragon (albeit a small one), then be weakened and effectively demoted/insulted by given the status of lesser dragon.
Sprain Ogre 11-25-03, 04:36 PM	Probably to steamline things, maybe the designers didn't like the faerie dragon in 2nd ed, who knows. They changed it, and we're changing it back. Comment on the write up you have on it. Now, I don't have my 2nd ed MM about, and don't really feal like hunting it down, but you seem to have it pretty thin on hit dice. Is this how it was in 2nd ed? While I don't think he should get as many HD as a normal dragon, I think he needs a few more then that.... (OK, decided to dig out 2nd ED MM, they don't even get HD, they just get Hit points and are considere to be 4HD monsters, so the addtion of HD at all is a step in the right direction! Still, I'd maybe go a few more hit dice....) If I could suggest the following changes and addtions? Age_________HD______Color______Breath Weapon(DC) Wyrmling__1d12+1 (8)___Red_________1d4(11) Very young_2d12+2 (15)_Red-Orange___1d4(12) Young____2d12+2(15)__Orange_____1d4(12) Juvenile__3d12+3(23)__Orange-Yellow__1d6(12) Young adult_4d12+4(30)___Yellow______1d6(13) Adult______4d12+4(30)__Yellow-Green__1d6(13) Mature Adult__5d12+5(38)__Green______1d8(13) Old________6d12+6(45)__Blue-Green___1d8(14) Very Old_____6d12+6(45)____Blue______1d8(14) Ancient_____7d12+7(53)___Blue-Violet__1d10(14) Wyrm____8d12+8(60)____Violet___1d10(15) Great wyrm__8d12+8(60)____Black_____1d10(15) Breath Weapon (Su): A faerie dragons breath weapon is a 20-foot cone of euphoric gas. Anyone caught in the area is stunned unless they make a Will save. Also, if I may make a stab at the CR (this is probably gonna be off a bit, so any input is welcome): Wyrmling 1/2; very young 1; young 2; juvenile 3; young adult 5; adult 6; mature adult 8; old 9; very old 10; ancient 12; wyrm 14; great wyrm 16. (I tried to calculate in the HD, AC, special abilites and caster level. I think I still might be a little low, considering the 20th level caster abilities at Great Wyrm...) I'm not about to take on the level adjustment....
scott644 11-25-03, 06:56 PM	Actually, they're quite heavy on hit dice compared to 2ed. In 2ed these things got 1-2 hp per age category, maxing therefore at a fully pumped 3D8 hp. Not good. Your adjustment would increase the natural armor a bit by the way Sprain Ogre; most true dragons have natural armor equal to their hit dice minus one, which is what I used to figure these guys. Now as for level adjustment? SR +1 Natural Armor 0 through Very Young, +1 later Abilities +1 through Adult, +2 later Size -1 Spells 0 through Very Young, +1 through Mature Adult, +2 later Spell-like abilities +1 through Adult, 0 later Breath-weapon +1 Movement Flight (perfect) +2 Movement Swim +1, +2 in aquatic campaigns Totals Wyrmling to Very Young: +6, +7 in aquatic campaigns Young to Mature Adult: +8, +9 in aquatic campaigns Old to Great Wyrm: +9, +10 in aquatic campaigns They're close enough in hit dice start to finish, those should be pretty close. Using Sprain Ogre's hit dice progression (thanks for the colors by the way - I'd forgotten them) they'd have the base +6/+7 level adjustment only as wyrmlings, +7/+8 at very young, and be +10/+11 from Ancient on. This reflects the increase in natural armor for the higher hit dice. This may seem over-powered as the faerie dragon would be ECL 18/19 as a great wyrm. However, they suffer in the category of hit dice (and consequently attacks, saves, feats and skills) and I feel would honestly be behind most characters of ECL 19 or higher. Favored class would of course be Faerie Dragon. Advancement as per rules for such (I've seen them in ELH, are there such rules in Dra?). I figure if they advance enough as dragon though, they should increase in size eventually. Small up to 9HD, then Medium at 10HD, and one size category per 6HD after that. Frankly, I don't see them advancing as dragons much however - being the pranksters they are I would see them taking character classess. Bard and rogue come to mind as most likely. I think you should reconsider the CR however. The wyrmling has improved invisibility, flight with perfect maneuverability, level one sorceror casting, and a ranged breath weapon (albeit non-damaging). Combine this with the fact the challenge would typically be to see through their mischief rather than out-fight them, and you can see where the CR should probably be noticeably higher. I figure start at CR1 at wyrmling and go up from there.
Sprain Ogre 11-25-03, 09:52 PM	You give them 1st level spells at very young... ;) As for the other adjustments based on hit dice, I just got lazy and didn't feel like doing them in that chart, if those HD alterations stick, then the numbers could be changed later in a more final version. But you're right, they probably should have a touch higher of a CR. My players often complain about my CR guesstimits.... hehehehe :angel: I think the level adjustment is good though, many high ECL critters are relativly low HD.... I think it would be really funny to see a faerie dragon advanced with this write up to huge, much less colossul.... That would be one SCARRY prankster.... :D
scott644 11-26-03, 10:51 AM	Oh my goodness! Advancing to collossal?! :eek: That would take about 30 or so hit dice of advancing - wow! Just give 'em character classess. Of course, if they did advance like that, they could qualify for Dragon Ascendant class at 30 hit dice.... A quasi-deity mischief dragon! Ooh I gotta run this! :D
Sprain Ogre 11-26-03, 01:34 PM	Think of all the apple pies in it's hoard it would have to eat to get the gp requirement!!! :D
scott644 11-26-03, 03:30 PM	That would be worth a size-up just from the gorging effect! lol
scott644 12-02-03, 07:06 PM	Let's calculate this - how many apple pies would it take to make a faery dragon's hoarde for the gorge to go Dragon Ascendant? hmmm... well their treasure would be standard as they're more pranksters than hoarders... I'll assume an apple pie would equate to a good meal. What's that? About 1sp? And then being advanced to 30hd, their CR would be about 15-20. Hmmm.... I can imagine a faery dragon going for this prestige class just for the sheer indulgance of it! :D
Sprain Ogre 12-04-03, 02:58 AM	:rofl: That would be one HELL of a chuby Faery Dragon....
scott644 12-04-03, 01:52 PM	Oh I don't know. A CR 20 encounter yields up 80k gp, so an 80,000gp hoard, translated to apple pies. An apple pie would be equal roughly to a common meal on its own - 3sp, so we do the math... and have a grand total of 266, 666 and 2/3 apple pies. While the magical effect of going Dragon Ascendant might prevent the weight gain, I suspect this guy's going to be the patron of smug, self-satisfied grins. :D
Sprain Ogre 12-05-03, 12:40 AM	OK, now how many calories are in the average apple pie? Not to mention suggar.... while he WOULD be colosal, that is alot to take in.... so I'd say smug grins and sugar buzzes.....
scott644 12-05-03, 08:39 AM	True enough. So he becomes the patron deity of food-induced hyperactivity? :smirk:
Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai 12-15-03, 01:22 PM	A very helpfull thread, exept for one thing: They are ECL 10, no? That means 10 max levels in a monstr class. The progression by age gives 12 "levels", so should i make it an ECL 12 species, or does anyone have an idea on how to squeeze it into 10 levels? For incase you were ponderoing, a player of mine is going to play a faerydragon in a SavageSpecies-inspired campaign.
Quathmoir Dlaeh Issarhai 12-15-03, 01:22 PM	.
Sprain Ogre 12-15-03, 01:40 PM	Thing is, most dragons don't have a progression that fit s in 20 level. They surpas the ECL 20 mark befor they reach adult status for the most part in fact. I wish I could advise more on the specifics of a level system for a faery dragon, but I haven't looked at those rules in awhile and would be lost....
scott644 12-15-03, 05:47 PM	The thing is, you look at the hit dice and powers of the monster. Hit dice set the base, powers set the level adjustment, and the two go together for the ecl. Then we look at dragon advancement. Dragons can advance ahead of age category - they gain hit dice and thus powers as they progress, advancing simply by the hit die once they exceed their great wyrm maximum. The faery dragon has the base hit dice, then have a couple added levels in between for the level adjustment.