Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DebiHuman 07-03-06, 08:27 AM	I was trying to find out if anyone had ever made of the stats for Falkor, the luckdragon from The Neverending Story. Wikipedia was useful for background (it's been a long time since I read the book and even longer since I've seen the movie). "A luckdragon has an elongated pearl-colored body with no wings and only rudimentary paws. The form of its head is described less precisely, but in the 1984 film adaptation of the novel, it had distinctive kynoid features, and additionally, in the movie Falkor asks Atreyu to scratch him behind his ear, accenting his dog-like appearance, which led to confusion among those who haven't read the book. The assumption that luckdragons are somehow related to dogs is thus incorrect." Unlike most of their dragon kin, luckdragons possess neither an immense physical strength, nor great magic talents. Their only distinctive ability that sets them apart is their incredible luck in everything they do. For example, at one point in the novel...Falkor manages to locate and rescue his lost companion despite violent storm and having absolutely no idea where to look for him. A luckdragon's typical answer to how it is going to accomplish a nearly impossible feat is always "With luck!" Despite such carelesness, it seems their luck truly never fails. "Another special trait of luckdragons is the ability to fly despite the fact that they have no wings. Thus, it is more like a levitation than actual flying, and it is speculated in the novel whether this is similar to the way sea snakes move through the water. Apparently, both the luckdragon and anyone sitting on its back (riding a luckdragon is an extremely rare occurrence reserved only for the greatest heroes) experience very little air resistance when flying, which in turn allows for an incredible velocity of flight." So Falkor is a hairy, white dragon with a dog's face and long ears and no wings. I would imagine that any time Falcor tries to do something his luck would give him a huge bonus and allow him to reroll any number less than 5. He would have a flight speed that is slightly faster than most dragons and also would be an excellent flyer at most categories. He would have an average magic ability, he wouldn't be especially strong and I can't imagine what his breath weapon would be. Any ideas? Debby
Slagger the Chuul 07-03-06, 11:32 AM	I'd probably go with a luck bonus to whatever rolls are appropriate. Something like the following (with whatever name you like, and at whatever bonus you feel is appropriate for the age category of the dragon). Dragon's Luck (Ex): A luck dragon gains a +2 luck bonus to all attack rolls, checks, and saving throws. It's dead simple and can give a significant edge to any luck dragon. As for the breath weapon, a luck dragon seems like it would have the Air subtype, so a lightning breath weapon, or a powerful blast of air (or both) would be most suitable. If you don't feel that luck dragons should fry people with lightning (since the example seems a bit too nice to do that), I'd stick to just the air blast.
Vanigo 07-03-06, 10:28 PM	Dragon's Luck (Ex): A luck dragon gains a +2 luck bonus to all attack rolls, checks, and saving throws. Seems awfully modest to me. I'd do something more like one reroll a round.
Slagger the Chuul 07-04-06, 05:58 AM	Seems awfully modest to me. I'd do something more like one reroll a round. That depends on how big you make the bonus. It looks quite modest, but it's more effective than it seems at first glance. The reroll is good, too, but one reroll a round is too much. Using it all the time makes it almost like increasing the average result, instead of using it as an ability that saves the luck dragon from misfortune. Since it doesn't make it seem special, you might as well use the alternative that has fewer dice rolls to slow down play. How about once per day per age category? It gives the grown-up luck dragons a benefit for their age (they're the mightier representations of their lucky breed, after all), but still grants some use of the ability to the cute little wyrmlings. With both abilities, the luck dragon would be luckier than most creatures all the time, with an added touch of luck for when the going gets tough.
DebiHuman 07-04-06, 09:31 AM	I like the "+2 luck bonus to all attack rolls, checks, and saving throws" rather than giving a set re-roll. Perhaps the re-roll should just be when a luckdragon rolls a "1." To me, that would embody luck. How's this: Dragon's Luck (Ex): A luck dragon gains a +2 luck bonus to all attack rolls, checks. In addition, once per day, whenever a luck dragon appears to have a catastrophic failure, his or her luck suddenly changes. (Re-roll any 1 on D20). I think the air blast as his breath weapon would be fitting. Breath Weapon (Su) A luck dragon has one type of breath weapon a 60 foot blast of air. Creatures three or more size categories smaller than the luck dragon must succeed at a Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 the luck dragon's HD + the luck dragon's Constitution modifer) or be knocked down and blown away 2d12 feet (+3 feet per age category of the luck dragon). A creature sustains 1d4 points of subdual damage per 10 feet it is blown away. Flying creatures are buffetted and blown back twice the distance and sustain 2d6 points of subdual damage per 10 feet. These dragons are very long and have no wings but would have a long reach because of their long necks. They would be better than average fliers. Speed: 40 ft, Fly 100 good It looks like it's coming together. Debby
R.M.G.C.L.F. 07-04-06, 01:59 PM	I'd give the plus +2 bonus to all saves, checks, and rolls, two rerolls per day, and a luck dragon's ally gets the benefits of a constant Prayer effect and one reroll per day.
R.M.G.C.L.F. 07-04-06, 02:53 PM	Luck Dragon Huge Dragon (Air) HD:7d12+56 (101hp) Init:+11 Speed: 40ft, fly 80ft (average, supernatural) AC:20(-2size,+5 dex,+5 natural, +2 luck) BAB/Grapple:+7/+18 Attacks: Bite+14 melee, tail+9 melee Damage: Bite 1d8+9, tail 1d12+5 Face/Reach: 20ft by 5ft/5ft Special Attacks: Breath Weapon, Grant Fortune Special Qualities: Luck, darkvision 90ft, low-light vision, fast healing 7, SR18 Saves: Fort+15, Ref+12, Will+12 Abilities: Str25,Dex21,Con27,Int10,Wis16,Cha18 Skills: Diplomacy+16, Spot+10, Listen+10 Feats: Improved initiative, Iron Will, Run ___________________________ Climate/Terrain: Any land Organization: Solitary CR:7? Alignment: Usually Chaotic Good Treasure: Standard Advancement: 8-9HD(huge), 10-12(gargantuan) A luck dragon is has a long serpentine body ending in a broad, cheerful, floppy-eared, lupine head and a broad snout. Grant Fortune(sp): Once per day, a luck dragon can grant a constant prayer effect to a creature towards which it's NPC attitude is at least Helpful. This effect lasts for one day, and the creature is also allowed to re-roll any one die roll. If they do, they must accept the new result. Luck(su): A luck dragon recieves a +2 luck bonus to all attack and damage rolls, saving throws, skill and ability checks, initiative rolls, and to AC.
DebiHuman 07-04-06, 04:59 PM	Luck Dragon Huge Dragon (Air) HD:7d12+56 (101hp) Init:+11 Speed: 40ft, fly 80ft (average, supernatural) AC:20(-2size,+5 dex,+5 natural, +2 luck) BAB/Grapple:+7/+18 Attacks: Bite+14 melee, tail+9 melee Damage: Bite 1d8+9, tail 1d12+5 Face/Reach: 20ft by 5ft/5ft Special Attacks: Breath Weapon, Grant Fortune Special Qualities: Luck, darkvision 90ft, low-light vision, fast healing 7, SR18 Saves: Fort+15, Ref+12, Will+12 Abilities: Str25,Dex21,Con27,Int10,Wis16,Cha18 Skills: Diplomacy+16, Spot+10, Listen+10 Feats: Improved initiative, Iron Will, Run ___________________________ Climate/Terrain: Any land Organization: Solitary CR:7? Alignment: Usually Chaotic Good Treasure: Standard Advancement: 8-9HD(huge), 10-12(gargantuan) A luck dragon is has a long serpentine body ending in a broad, cheerful, floppy-eared, lupine head and a broad snout. Grant Fortune(sp): Once per day, a luck dragon can grant a constant prayer effect to a creature towards which it's NPC attitude is at least Helpful. This effect lasts for one day, and the creature is also allowed to re-roll any one die roll. If they do, they must accept the new result. Luck(su): A luck dragon recieves a +2 luck bonus to all attack and damage rolls, saving throws, skill and ability checks, initiative rolls, and to AC. Very nice. I like the Grant Fortune and Luck abilities a lot but I think you've made the dragon far too weak. At that size his hit dice should be a lot higher especially for a Huge dragon. I'm looking through the dragons in the Monster Manuals and Draconomicon for inspiration. I'm sorta basing it off other dragons and making up a chart. It's taking me a while to stat it up because this is my first time and I keep not finding things I need. For example, I'm not sure how to get a number to determine initiative. Is is based on something or do I just pull the numbers out of thin air? I think I figured out the luck dragon's Fort saves but I cannot figure out how to get the Ref saves. And how do you insert a chart in here? I've seen some really good ones but I'm not sure how it is done. Thanks Debby
CryoSilver 07-04-06, 11:47 PM	Good saves are equal to a creature's HD/2 + 2 Bad saves are equal to HD/3 Always round down
Slagger the Chuul 07-05-06, 02:15 AM	For example, I'm not sure how to get a number to determine initiative. Is is based on something or do I just pull the numbers out of thin air? The Dexterity modifier is the most basic part. In this particular example (the one presented by R.M.G.C.L.F.) we have a +5 modifier from Dexerity, with a further +4 from Improved Initiative and +2 from the luck ability, giving us the listed total of +11.
DebiHuman 07-05-06, 12:30 PM	The Dexterity modifier is the most basic part. In this particular example (the one presented by R.M.G.C.L.F.) we have a +5 modifier from Dexerity, with a further +4 from Improved Initiative and +2 from the luck ability, giving us the listed total of +11. Thanks. I'm not convinced that a luck dragon is all that dexterous. Partly, my reticence stems from true dragons all having a dex of 10. I'd like to make the luck dragon more like a true dragon and therefore, it should also have a dex of 10. The +4 from Improved initiative makes sense as does the +2 for the luck bonus Luck dragons are less powerful than other dragons in some respects but only because they seem designed for defense rather than for offense. And as far as feats go I would trade run for hover. I agree that 40 ft. is fine, I think a luck dragon's fly speed would be much faster -- I'm thinking closer to 200 ft. I realize that this isn't in keep with regular dragons but incredible speed in flight was really the luck dragon's bailiwick. Luck dragons should have the cloudwalking ability (like silver dragons) and should be immune to sonic attacks Debby
Slagger the Chuul 07-05-06, 07:56 PM	The radiant dragon (from the Draconomicon) is the only exception I can think of as far as 10 Dexterity goes for true dragons. If I remember correctly, it still ends up with 10 Dex in its last couple of age categories, though. You'll need a higher top speed than 200 ft. if you want to be fast in the dragon stakes. At the great wyrm age, any true dragon worth its wings is hitting a minimum speed of 200 ft. while the quick ones are up at 250 ft.
Wolf_Boy 07-05-06, 08:24 PM	Some of the gem dragons have a higher dex too, and they are true dragons...
RavinRay 07-05-06, 09:21 PM	Which was necessitated by the MAD (Multiple Ability Dependency) system of 3.0 psionics, hence the Dex 12 for amethysts (psychokinesis, but Con is the key ability) and increasing Dex for sapphires (psychoportation). If you ask me, both should have Dex 10 throughout in 3.5 psionics.
DebiHuman 07-06-06, 01:47 AM	The radiant dragon (from the Draconomicon) is the only exception I can think of as far as 10 Dexterity goes for true dragons. If I remember correctly, it still ends up with 10 Dex in its last couple of age categories, though. You'll need a higher top speed than 200 ft. if you want to be fast in the dragon stakes. At the great wyrm age, any true dragon worth its wings is hitting a minimum speed of 200 ft. while the quick ones are up at 250 ft. The radiant dragon's dexeterity decreases as it ages which is a little odd. But then again I suppose I could give the luck dragon extreme speed say along the lines of 300 ft. with a rating of average at the end (starting at very good for a wrymling and decreasing with age. It's one thing to bend the rules, I'm not sure I want to break them. Debby
Slagger the Chuul 07-06-06, 06:47 AM	But then again I suppose I could give the luck dragon extreme speed say along the lines of 300 ft. with a rating of average at the end (starting at very good for a wrymling and decreasing with age. That sounds good to me. The decreasing Dexterity of the radiant dragon presumably reflects the agility lost because of its increased size. It's basically the same reason that the flight maneuverability decreases. The big question is why it doesn't happen with other dragons. :)
DebiHuman 07-06-06, 10:50 AM	That sounds good to me. The decreasing Dexterity of the radiant dragon presumably reflects the agility lost because of its increased size. It's basically the same reason that the flight maneuverability decreases. The big question is why it doesn't happen with other dragons. :) Actually, most true dragons do change their flight manuverabilty as they age--just look at the MM (or SRD). Unfortunately, there aren't really any guidelines for when this happens -- it should be related to size but since the changes are different for each dragon type, it looks pretty arbitrary to me. Size categories I'm looking at for the luck dragon are as follows: Age Size Wyrmling T Very Young S Young M Juvenile M Young Adult L Adult L Mature Adult H Old H Very Old H Ancient H Wyrm G Great Wyrm G What do you think? At medium, large and huge they could still have good flight whereas at ancient, they would drop a category. Now the question is should a wyrmling have "perfect" or "very good" manuverability? At first I was leaning towards, VG but the more I think of it, the more I think why not Perfect? It's only for a brief time but would give these little ones an advantage. Debby
Slagger the Chuul 07-07-06, 06:46 AM	Actually, most true dragons do change their flight manuverabilty as they age--just look at the MM (or SRD). Unfortunately, there aren't really any guidelines for when this happens -- it should be related to size but since the changes are different for each dragon type, it looks pretty arbitrary to me. I was referring to the Dexterity score, but that's not important. There is a fairly direct and simple correlation between size and flight maneuverability for most true dragons. They have average maneuverability when Small or smaller, poor maneuverability when Medium to Huge, and clumsy maneuverability when Gargantuan or larger. If you go for perfect maneuverability for the wyrmling, you're putting it two steps above the normal maneuverability, so you can simply carry that change all the way up. For the sizes you've given, the wyrmling and very young luck dragons would have perfect maneuverability, the young to ancient luck dragons would have good maneuverability, and the wyrms and great wyrms would have average maneuverability.
DebiHuman 07-07-06, 09:05 AM	I was referring to the Dexterity score, but that's not important. There is a fairly direct and simple correlation between size and flight maneuverability for most true dragons. They have average maneuverability when Small or smaller, poor maneuverability when Medium to Huge, and clumsy maneuverability when Gargantuan or larger. If you go for perfect maneuverability for the wyrmling, you're putting it two steps above the normal maneuverability, so you can simply carry that change all the way up. For the sizes you've given, the wyrmling and very young luck dragons would have perfect maneuverability, the young to ancient luck dragons would have good maneuverability, and the wyrms and great wyrms would have average maneuverability. I see what you mean about the dex scores...I guess it makes things easier to leave that alone. I wish I had more knowledge about WotC's guidelines for dragons but I think I'm muddling along okay thus far. Here's a chart that I started: Age Speed Init. Armor Class Special Abilities SR Wyrmling 40 ft., 150 ft. fly (perfect) +0 15 (+2 size, +3 natural) Sonic immunity - Very Young 40 ft., 150 ft. fly (perfect) +0 17 (+1 size, +6 natural) ? - Young 40 ft., 200 ft. fly (very good) +0 19 (+9 natural) ? - Juvenile 40 ft., 200 ft. fly (very good) +0 22 (+12 natural) ? - Young Adult 40 ft., 200 ft. fly (very good) +0 24 (-1 size, +15 natural) ? ? Adult 40 ft., 200 ft. fly (very good) +0 27 (-1 size, + 18 natural) ? ? Mature Adult 40 ft., 250 ft. fly (good) +0 29 (-2 size, + 21 natural) ? ? Old 40 ft., 250 ft. fly (good) +0 32 (-2 size, + 24 natural) ? ? Very Old 40 ft., 250 ft. fly (good) +0 35 (-2 size, + 27 natural) ? ? Ancient 40 ft., 250 ft. fly (good) +0 38 (-2 size, + 30 natural) ? ? Wyrm 40 ft., 300 ft. fly (average) +0 39 (-4 size, + 33 natural) ? ? Great Wyrm 40 ft., 300 ft. fly (average) +0 42 (-4 size, + 36 natural) ? ? I still need to fix up the chart but this is an approximation. Debby
Slagger the Chuul 07-08-06, 03:10 AM	Your other alternative for the energy type would be electricity.