Post/Author/DateTime	Post
lds_soldier 03-08-06, 07:14 AM	Okay, with help from Tevin Kevlak, I think I've managed to make it more reasonable. I'm not sure about the background on it, but it's better than it was. Any better? Fallen Angel, 1st level Fighter Medium Outsider (Augmented) Hit Dice: 1d10 + 2 (7 hp) Initiative: +2 Speed: 30 feet. Armor Class: 14 (+2 dex, +2 leather armor), Touch: 12, Flat-footed: 12 B.A.B./Grapple: +1/+2 Attack: Shortsword, +2 melee (1d6+2) Full Attack: Shortsword, +2 melee (1d6+2) Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft Special Attacks: Spell-like abilities. Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 feet, Low-Light Vision, Resistance to Electricity 10 Saves: Fort +4, Ref +2, Will +1 Abilities: Str 13, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 12, Cha 8 Skills: Appraise +3, Bluff +1, Craft (Leather working) +2, Knowledge (geography) +2, Listen +2, Search +4, Spot +2 Feats: Alertness, (B) Weapon Focus (Shortsword) Environment: Temperate plains Organization: Nomadic 2-10 Challenge Rating: 3 Advancement: By character class. Level Adjustment: +4 Alignment: Usually LG or NG Description Fallen Angels appear in almost every way to be completely human except that their skin and hair is white. They speak mostly Celestial but have those who adventure quickly learn Common. These angels seem extraordinarily intelligent and are adept at manufacturing advanced structures and weapons, often imbuing them with magical properties. These Angels were left on Eberron when their curiosity led them to visit during a coterminous phase of Syrania, the plane of air. Their arrival was witnessed by adventurers who assumed them to have indeed fallen. Many claim to have seen a Fallen Angel and tales of them appear anywhere from the Talenta Plains to Ancient Ruins in Q'barra. In truth, there are very few Fallen Angels on Eberron and even fewer of them reside on the continent of Khorvaire. There is one small city located on the continent of Xen'drick. They have only been there for a few centuries, long enough to have several thousand or so, not all of which are pure Angel. Many have left the city over their tenure their in search of a way to return. Several have managed to do so but due to cross-breeding with the Ancient civilization they found there, the majority of them would not be welcome in Syrania. Combat Fallen Angels are experts in the art of swordplay. In combat, he will first pull the sword from his hip sheath and throw it at the first attacker, then quickly pull the second sword from an easy access sheath over his opposite shoulder and charge into melee combat. Rarely will an adventurer happen upon less than 4 Fallen Angels on the trail or more than 60 in open combat. An army of hundreds could easily be slaughtered by a mere two-score Fallen Angels, due to their fighting prowess and discipline. Special Abilities (B) Low-light vision/Darkvision: Fallen Angels have the natural ability to see in the dark. (Range: 60 ft) (B) Weapon Focus: Short sword Spell-Like ABility: At will: Shocking Grasp(1D6 damage) Caster level is character level Resistance to Electricity/10 Fallen Angel chacracters possess the following traits: - +2 strength, +2 constitution, +2 intelligence, -2 Charisma. - Medium Size. - A Fallen Angel's base land speed is 30 feet. - Darkvision 60 feet. - Low-Light Vision - Racial Feats: Weapon Focus (Shortsword) - Special Attacks (see above): Shocking Grasp - Special Qualities (see above): Resistance to Electricity 10. - Automatic Languages: Common and Celestial. - Favored Class: Rogue - Level Adjustment: +4 Copyright: Eric Long 03-06-2006 Permission to photocopy for personal use only.
runestar 03-08-06, 07:40 AM	Can you provide more info on their background, like how they came to be termed as such? Is it solely due to their appearance?
lds_soldier 03-08-06, 08:14 AM	How's that?
dok 03-08-06, 01:15 PM	Medium Creature Aaaand we've got our first error, ladies & gentlemen. All creatures must have a Type (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#types) that defines the fundamental nature of the creature. Is it a Humanoid? An Outsider? Undead? Monstrous Humanoid? Plant? Construct? Abberation? Fey? The list is rather sizable, and when making a monster, creature Type plays a large role. Hit Dice: 1D10+2 OK, this may or may not be an error. Here's where we get into a second potential mistake. Is this a creature with one racial HD (like, say, a Small Animated Object (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/animatedObject.htm)) where this HD is an inherent quality of all of these creatures, or is this 1d10 hit die from a class level, and the creature has no racial HD (like the Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/Orc.htm)) and instead is shown with one class level. If this is the case, then we go back to the first line: Medium Creature Notice in the Orc's entry, it says "Orc, 1st level Warrior" That tells us (the readers) that the Orc's lone Hit Die is from a class level, and we should use that class level to determine it's BAB, skill points, and saving throws, rather than using it's Type. Armor Class: 14 (+2 Dex, +2 Leather Armor) Touch: 12, flat-footed 10 Flat-footed AC includes Armor bonuses, but not Dexterity. So it should be 12, not 10. Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+1 Remember how I asked about racial HD versus 1 class level? This is one reason why. I don't know if you've done the Base Attack bonus correctly or not, because I don't know what (if any) class is used here. If it's a Fighter, Warrior, Ranger, Barbarian, or Paladin, or if the creature is a 1 HD Outsider, Dragon, or Monstrous Humanoid, then it's right. Otherwise, it's wrong. Grapple bonuses are BAB plus Strength modifier plus special size modifier. A medium creature has no size modifier, so the grapple bonus should be BAB (+1) plus Strength (+1) for a total +2. Attack: +1 Short Sword (1D6), Cold Touch (2D6 cold damage) Formatting is important here, because you want to distinguish between an attack with a weapon (Short Sword, +1 melee) and an attack with a magic weapon. (+1 Short Sword, +1 melee) Also, the Attack bonus is BAB (+1) plus Strength modifier (+1) plus size modifier (+0) for a final attack bonus of +2. Short Sword, +2 melee... Melee and thrown weapons require the attacker to add their Strength modifier to the weapon's damage, so the damage should be 1d6+1[/color). [color=green]Cold Touch also needs an attack bonus listed for it, and it needs to be stated that it's a touch attack. Touch attacks use the same modifiers as normal attacks, so all we need to do is format this correctly. Attack: Short Sword, +2 melee (1d6+1) or Cold Touch, +2 touch (2d6 cold) Saves: Fort+2, Ref+2, Will+1 This is another case where that whole "racial HD + Type vs. 1 class level" thing starts to matter. Right now, all I see is that you put in the ability score modifiers (+2 constitution, +2 dexterity, +1 wisdom) but that isn't enough. If it's got one class level, we add in the saving throw bonuses for that class. If it's got one racial HD, we need to add in those saving throw bonuses. So unless this thing is a Construct (no good saving throws), you've made an error here. Abilities: Str 13, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 13, Cha 11 Technically, I shouldn't point this out here, but wait until later, but remember that "1 racial HD versus 1 class level"? Well, here's another case where it matters. Creatures with no racial HD and one class level (goblins, orcs, planetouched, dwarves, elves) use the non-elite array (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#noneliteArray) for thier ability scores before applying racial modfiers. Creatures with racial HD use the standard array. (10 or 11 for all scores before racial ability modifiers) Skills: Appraise+1, Bluff+1, Craft+2 (Leatherworking), Knowledge+2 (Geography), Listen+1, Profession+2 (Mounted soldier), Search+1, Spot+1, Survival+1 (+5 in Mountain terrain) You know what I'm going to say here, right? Racial HD versus 1 class level. I don't know if you've spent too many skill points, or not enough. I will point out that with an Intelligence bonus of +3, your Appraise, Craft, Knowledge, and Search checks should all be at least +3. Feats: Armor Proficiency (medium), Simple and Martial Weapon Proficiency Sorry to sound like a broken record here, but if this creature has a level of Warrior, it already has those proficencies, and you don't need to list them, because it gets those as a class feature. If the creature has a racial HD, it has the appropriate weapon and armor proficiencies for it's Type. If you're taking the proficency feats as feats, you must take Armor Proficency (light) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#armorProficiencyLight) before you can take Armor Proficency (Medium). Simple Weapon Proficency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#simpleWeaponProficiency) is a seperate feat from Martial Weapon Proficency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#martialWeaponProficiency), and Martial Weapon Proficency only grants proficency with one weapon that you must specify. Organization: Civilized Umm, no. The "Organization" line refers to how many of these creatures are typically encountered. (i.e. Solitary, band (2-5), troupe (6-11) and so on) It's also used to indicate what other creatures might be encountered with the creature. (i.e. Solitary with Warhorse) Treasure: +1 Short sword, leather armor, 5 gp, bedroll, flint and steel Ah, it is a +1 sword. See now why that formatting business is important? So go back up to the attack line, and let's rewrite it again, adding the sword's enhancement bonus to both the attack and damage bonuses. Attacks: +1 Short Sword, +3 melee (1d6+2 Challenge Rating: 2 That's highly debatable. While its Cold Touch is very powerful (more on that in a bit) it doesn't have the Armor Class, or hit points to really be much of a threat. The typical attack starts on horseback. The angel will first pull the sword from her hip sheath and throw it at the first or only attacker with deadly accuracy, then quickly pull the second sword from an easy access sheath over her opposite shoulder and charge into melee combat. Problem #1: According to the rules on Thrown Weaons (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#thrownWeapons), throwing a short sword (which is not meant to be thrown) has a -4 penalty, which means it's final ranged attack bonus is actually lower than its normal attack bonus. Hardly "deadly accuracy". Problem #2: If you describe tactics for a monster, those tactics should be reflected in the stat block. So back up in the heavily edited "Attacks" line, you should have listed Thrown Short Sword, -2 ranged (1d6+1). Problem #3: If the typical attack starts on horseback, why doesn't this creature have ranks in the Ride skill? And why doesn't its Organization line say it's typically encountered with a horse/warhorse/other ridden animal? Another common tactic is to use advanced compound short bows to whittle down the numbers, then revert to the short swords for melee. If it's a common tactic, why doesn't the "typical creature" described above have a short bow, and why doesn't it have "short bow" listed in its attacks? Special Abilities OK, here's where I talk about the Cold Touch business. You list it as an attack in the stat block. But you also need to list it under Special Attacks, because it's not anything creatures can "normally" do. (B) Weapon Proficiency: Composite Shortbow (B) Mounted Combat (B) Weapon Focus: Short sword or Composite Short bow See, all three of these things should be listed under Feats; that's the point of having that line. OK actually only two need to be listed under feats; if the creature has Martial Weapons proficency, it automatically has proficency with the composite shortbow. Feats: Mounted Combat (B), Weapon Focus (short sword or composite bow) (B) Cold Touch: Touching or being touched by a fallen angel deals an automatic 2D6 points of cold damage. No Saving Throw. You need to add either the (Ex), (Su), or (Sp) descriptor to this ability. (it's probably Supernatural) Also, if anything that touches this creature suffers cold damage, how can they drink any liquids? Shouldn't they be able to suppress this ability? Damage Reduction/10 vs Cold damage Nope. First, this needs to be listed under Special Qualities, because it is one. Second, you're describing Energy Resistance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#resistanceToEnergy) , and not Damage Reduction (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#DamageReduction). Fallen Angels have the following racial traits: +0 Str, +1 Dex, +1 Con, +2 Int, +0 Wis, +0 Cha First, you don't need to list an ability score modifier if it's +0. Second, ability score modifiers are never odd numbers; never +1 or +3, always +0, +2, or +4. This is why its important to know whether this monster was made using the standard array (10, 11, 10, 11, 10, 11), the nonelite array (13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8) or the elite array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8), and where those scores were put before racial ability modifiers. Racial Skills: Skill points equal 4 X (2+Int bonus) at first level. 2+Int Modifier at additional levels. Class Skills are: Appraise, Bluff, Craft, Knowledge, Listen, Profession, Search, Spot, Survival Only creatures with a Racial Hit Die get racial skills. Look at the Asimar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/planetouched.htm#aasimar); even though he's an Outsider, he does not get any Racial skill points. Instead, its starting skill points are determined by class. Further, additional skill points at additional levels are almost never determined by your race, because those additional levels are gained in classes. Additionally, the creature's Type (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/typesSubtypes.htm) determined how many skill points they get for each racial hit die. So you need to specify a Type if you're going to give racial skill points. Level Adjustment: +0 No. Oh heck no. Bonus feat at 1st level, bonuses to three ability scores, three bonus feats, Energy Resistance (cold) 10, and an always-on touch attack for 2d6 cold damage with no saving throw, and you think that is no more powerful than an Elf or a Human? Even if that 1 HD is racial (and thus adds to ECL) that's still ridiculous. Look at the Tiefling or the Aasimar for what a +1 Level-adjustment race looks like.
lds_soldier 03-08-06, 04:46 PM	Thank your for the help on this one. Having created only two creatures so far semi-successfuly, I would say that I am very new to creature creation, but I enjoy it. I'm probably trying to hard. I'll work on this one and probably tone it down when I have time tomorrow. Again, thanks.
AvonRekaes 03-11-06, 08:38 PM	Medium Outsider (Augmented) This is another error. The Augmented subtype is only used when a template changes a creature's type but does not recalculate its saves, attack, and/or skillpoints. I can think of two subtypes you may have meant to give this creature, from reading it's history (which I like, btw). First is Extraplanar, which any creature gains when not on its home plane. All monster entries are written from the assumption that the fight is taking place on the Material Plane (in this case Eberron) so if the Fallen Angel is supposed to consider Syrannia his home plane then he should be extraplanar. Or, you could have meant to use the Native subtype. Native outsiders are outsiders that *usually* aren't as powerful as normal outsiders, but thats not always the case. "Native" is actually a misnomer, because it's supposed to refer to "native to the material plane", but Native Outsiders need not be born there. (In fact you can have "Native" Outsiders that have, as a species, never set foot on the material plane). What makes a Native Outsider so much different from a normal one isn't their home plane, but how they are made. Native Outsiders have a seperation between body and soul that more closely resembles non-outsiders (meaning they can be raised or ressurected normally). Native Outsiders also usually need to sleep, eat, and breath and usually grow old and die (But not always, see the Rakshasas). Hope this helps.
JiCi 03-11-06, 08:50 PM	Woaw, woaw, woaw. Since when a fallen angel is LG or NG ??? A fallen angel is evil and corrupted. You should change that to LE or CE. Personnally, I think this "fallen angel thingy" is better suited as a template. Just swap the half-celestial spell-like abilities by those of the half-fiend. Just my 2 copper. :twocents:
AvonRekaes 03-11-06, 11:08 PM	I think you jumped the gun there, JiCi. If you read the description "Fallen" is what the people of Eberron call them, because they weren't in Syrannia. "Hey Jimbob, ain't that an angel?" "Yeah, think so." "Why ain't he in heaven?" "He pro'lly fell." Except that they weren't fallen, they were just stranded. These Angels were left on Eberron when their curiosity led them to visit during a coterminous phase of Syrania, the plane of air. Their arrival was witnessed by adventurers who assumed them to have indeed fallen. This has nothing to do with half-fiends, there's no fiendish influence whatsoever.
JiCi 03-12-06, 07:02 AM	Oh... my bad. The name is confusing. Now I get the idea, and it's good come the think of it. But you should change the name, due to some very stereotyped monsters.
Shemeska the Marauder 03-12-06, 07:15 AM	Or, you could have meant to use the Native subtype. Native outsiders are outsiders that *usually* aren't as powerful as normal outsiders, but thats not always the case. "Native" is actually a misnomer, because it's supposed to refer to "native to the material plane", but Native Outsiders need not be born there. (In fact you can have "Native" Outsiders that have, as a species, never set foot on the material plane). What makes a Native Outsider so much different from a normal one isn't their home plane, but how they are made. Native Outsiders have a seperation between body and soul that more closely resembles non-outsiders (meaning they can be raised or ressurected normally). Native Outsiders also usually need to sleep, eat, and breath and usually grow old and die (But not always, see the Rakshasas). Hope this helps. Mostly, since as you say that Native Outsider refers to the fact that the creature in question still retains a mortal body/soul duality, which true outsiders lack. It doesn't have anything to do with being native to the prime material plane, despite some poor wording that has been used at times in 3.5. A tiefling born on Elysium, or in the Abyss, or Sigil is still as much a native outsider as is a tiefling born on Greyhawk or Toril. By virtue of birth however you'll be applying the extraplanar notation at different times for those born on other planes versus being born on the prime material, etc. Being a native outsider doesn't make you automatically native to the prime material, and an aasimar born on Arborea is going to be banished to Arborea, not some random spot on the prime material if they're ever forced out of some plane they're on but aren't native to. And with regards to the 3.5 Rakshasa, that poor thing... Whoever wrote the 3.5 version of the Rakshasa seems to have been unaware of the proper usage of Native Outsider and Extraplanar when they made Rakshasas native outsiders (they're natives of Acheron, they're immortal, they lack body/soul duality, but whoever wrote their 3.5 update seems to have been asleep at the wheel, so to speak. Either they were wholly ignorant of a number of things, or they randomly broke with the material on Rakshasas that's been established over the past thirty years. The first one is lamentable, the second deserves being chased down by an Inevitable for a stern lecture).
lds_soldier 03-13-06, 01:10 AM	I'm still trying to come up with a suitable name. Fallen Angel might be what locals call them (mistakenly). So what do you suppose their real name might be? They are angels (or were, most of them), but how does this work? Are they still angels? What kind of angel? And after reading the description again I though about it a little. I need to check...can an angel descend to the material plane and ascend to Syrania at will? If so, the entire concept is null and void. So I still need a name for them, and some math and concept still needs checking. A little help please. Thanks