Far Template (PEACH) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Far Template (PEACH) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kerik
10-11-06, 08:08 PM I'm trying to create a template for creatures from the Far Realm, with a feel similar to the horror and horrors found in Lovecraft's books, and I'd like some help with CR, LA, and any general ideas would be appreciated. For those of you who have not read his books but would still like to contribute, here's some basic info.

Some of the transdimensional and interspacial monsters from Lovecraft's stories opperate off of rules that exist in other parts of the universe, thus making their very existence incongruous to our world. Others have their beings based off of rules that exist behind all the rules that man is aware of, rules so convoluted and vague that to comprehend them you must either develop an understanding since your birth or go insane.

The main constants with all these creatures are that they're quite tough, strong, and unusually flexible. There are vast differences in terms of how powerful they are, and the really powerful creatures are invariably huge and impossible to kill, unless you bind other powerful entities to your will for a short time. Those that do are usually killed in the most horrible manor possible and have their souls devoured.

General Idea

HD:+2

Speed: As base creature.

AC: 1-10HD +4 natural armor, 11-15HD +6 natural armor, 16-20HD +8 natural armor, 21-30HD +12 natural armor +3 deflection, 31-45HD +20 natural armor +8 deflection. For every 15HD beyond that, another +5 natural armor +2 deflection.

Attacks: Far creatures gain a +2 insight bonus on all attacks because of their awareness of true reality.

Damage: For all damaging attacks 1-10HD +1 vile damage, 11-15HD +2 vile damage, 16-20HD +4 vile damage, 21-30HD +10 vile damage, 31HD+ +10 vile damage, and all attack damage done by creature is also vile.

Special Attacks: Add +4 save DC to any special attacks made upon any non-Far creature.

Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 1-10HD 5/Far, 11-20HD 10/Far, 21-30HD 20/Far, +10 dr/+10HD.
Far creatures treat all non-element, non-magical, non-divine, non-psionic, and non-incarnum damage as non lethal. They are not subject to non lethal damage, and attackers take a -4 penalty when confirming a critical hit. They are not subject to pertrification, drowning, or suffocating.
Fire and Cold Resistance 10.
Far creatures with 20+ HD gain SR and PR 10+1/2HD+Cha.
Far creatures are immune to non-magical/divine/psionic/incarnum diseases and poisons.

Saves: +2 to fortitude saves.

Abilities: +2 str +2 dex +4 con

Skills: As base creature.

Climate Terrain: Any, deep space.

Organization: Varies.

CR: ? Help please.

Treasure: Help please.

Alignment: Chaotic, usually evil.

LA: ? Help please.

Advancement: As base creature.
Sorcen_Anenooata
10-11-06, 08:51 PM Far Creature Template (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=318816) by Shadowfoot

Continue with yours if you like, I just put the link to help you out.
dok
10-11-06, 09:01 PM I'm trying to create a template for creatures from the Far Realm, with a feel similar to the horror and horrors found in Lovecraft's books, and I'd like some help with CR, LA, and any general ideas would be appreciated.

I'm assuming that you either are unaware of the Pseudonatural, Epic Pseudonatural, and Half-Far Realms templates that do exactly this, or you don't like them for whatever reason. The Far Realms are discussed some in the Manual of the Planes, as well as Lords of Madness.

I'll also go ahead and assume you're unaware of Chaostech, a d20 suppliment by Malhavoc Press that is probably the closest thing I've seen to a good "D&D meets Lovecraft" product.

The first thing that stands out about this template is what it doesn't do. Despite being from an utterly alien realm of madness & insanity, the creature doesn't actually change type?! Sure, the laws of nature are completely foreign and do not apply to those places, but an Animal is still an Animal for the Ranger to use Wild Empathy on?

AC: 1-10HD +4 natural armor, 11-15HD +6 natural armor, 16-20HD +8 natural armor, 21-30HD +12 natural armor +3 deflection, 31-45HD +20 natural armor +8 deflection. For every 15HD beyond that, another +5 natural armor +2 deflection.

Here's another problem. Templates that flatly scale with Hit Dice run into trouble when applied to things like Dire Animals & Vermin, which have a lot of hit dice for their CR. Look at our friend the Collossal Scorpion; at CR 12 with an AC of 26 normally, this template boosts it's AC to 54, nearly doubling it.

Another issue I have is the use of a deflection bonus. Deflection bonuses represent some sort of _force_ that deflects attacks away; nothing in either the Cthulu stories or in your description suggests they have some kind of "force field" to deflect attacks. An Insight or Luck bonus would be more appropriate.

Damage: For all damaging attacks 1-10HD +1 vile damage, 11-15HD +2 vile damage, 16-20HD +4 vile damage, 21-30HD +10 vile damage, 31HD+ +10 vile damage, and all attack damage done by creature is also vile.

Far Realms/Lovecraft/Madness != Vile.
Vile represents pure, corrupting, evilness.
The Lovecraft Far Realms is madness, insanity, and "beyond the realm of things knowable", but it was never evil. Vile damage is absolutely, positively wrong here.

Special Attacks: Add +4 save DC to any special attacks made upon any non-Far creature.

This is terrible wording, and a terrible mechanic. Why should a "Far Realm" Dragon's breath weapon be harder to resist than a normal breath weapon? (especially since they fill the same area, deal the same kind of damage, etc. etc. etc.)

Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 1-10HD 5/Far, 11-20HD 10/Far, 21-30HD 20/Far, +10 dr/+10HD.

What is "far" for Damage Reduction? You don't get to describe DR in new house rules unless you also detail the house rules...
Use DR x/magic (appropriate, since magic is also a 'not of this world' force used in Lovecraft stories to protect mortals from bad nasty things) or DR x/-

Far creatures treat all non-element, non-magical, non-divine, non-psionic, and non-incarnum damage as non lethal. They are not subject to non lethal damage, and attackers take a -4 penalty when confirming a critical hit.

These are utterly, horribly terrible rules. They're contradictory, incoherent, and inconsistent.
1.) Can you give me an example of damage that is "divine", but "non-magical"? Even just one?
2.) If a sword has magic weapon cast on it, is that "magical" damage? If a cleric casts spiritual weapon, and creates a weapon that deals Force damage, is that "magical" damage? If the two answers are different, why are they different? Is a monk's unarmed attack, when they have ki strike: magic considered magical damage?
3.) How do you reconcile the first two sentances of "...treat all ...damage as non-lethal. They are not subject to non-lethal damage..."?
4.) Why do attackers take a penalty to confirming critical hits? If it's a matter of strange biology, how is it that critical hits are harder, but Sneak Attacks still work just fine?

Fire and Cold Resistance 10.
Why? Seriously, this is just thrown out there without any sort of explanation at all.
Why have these energy resistances? Are the Far Realms places of intense heat & cold? For that matter, why any energy resistances?

Far creatures with 20+ HD gain SR and PR 10+1/2HD+Cha.

Unless you're using the "Psionics are Different" variant, you don't need to state they gain both SR & PR.
Uncapped SR is potentially problematic, and the formula for SR doesn't corellate well to HD.

Saves: +2 to fortitude saves.

Abilities: +2 str +2 dex +4 con

It's clear you're still in the "beta" stage.
Despite being from a realm of utter & complete madess, they have standard mental scores. Well, that makes some sense, I suppose.

Here's the thing: if you give a +4 constitution modifier, that automatically results in +2 to all Fortitude saves. Right now, you're essentially double-dipping, with the creature gaining a net +4 to Fortitude, and if you keep the irrational '+2 HD' boost, that's potentially another +1 to Fort, for a net +5 which is a lot more than I think you may have intended.

The same thing happens with Strength. +2 strength gives +1 to hit & damage on its attacks. But you've already given it a +2 insight bonus to attack, and another bonus to damage as Vile Damage. So again, you're double-dipping, making the creature even more powerful.

I strongly suggest you look at the materials mentioned above first, and then, if they don't meet your needs, take a second stab at the template. I have a few ideas on how to make a customized Far Realm template, but I don't believe in re-inventing the wheel every few blocks if I don't have to.
Kerik
10-11-06, 11:18 PM Alas, alack.:embarrass I'm just going to apollagize for this feat right away, this was god awful. I'm not sure what I was thinking when making it. I probably shouldn't have tryed to rush type this in 20 minutes. I'd try to remake the thing now, but I'll have to do it later because I'm short on time again, and I do not want to do something like this again. I shall repair this piece of crap.
Kerik
10-12-06, 12:47 PM This is an inherited template, but may also be forced into a creature who has dwelt in the Far Realm too long. Creatures from the Material Plane who are in the Far Realm must make a DC 25 fortitude save every 3 months to avoid beginning the long, painful process of turning into a Far creature. After the first twelve months, the creature must make a save every year with 30 DC. This effect ignores resistance and immunity to polymorphing/transmutation. This effect is seperate from insanity effects. All Far creatures are immune to the Disturbing Prescence and Maddening Influence of other Far creatures, and automatically overcomes the damage reduction, energy resistance, spell immunity, and spell resistance of other Far creatures.

The creature's type changes to Abberation, with the subtype (Far). Size remains unchanged.

HD: +1.

Speed: As creature's.

AC: A Far creature's construction is tough because the Far Realm has warped and changed it into a more powerful and illogical form, and because it wouldn't have existed in the Far Realm long enough to make it to maturity. 1-7HD +1 natural armor, 8-14HD +2 natural armor, 15HD+ +4 natural armor.

Attacks: Far creatures gain a insight bonuses on all attacks because of their awareness of true reality. 1-7HD +2, 8-14HD +3, 15HD+ +4.

Special Attacks:
Disturbing Prescence: Far creatures exist according to rules that are incongruous or completely contradictory to our own, and as such non-Far creatures can't percieve Far existence calmly. All creatures within 30ft of the Far creature who are not Far as well must make a will save DC 10+1/2HD+Cha or become frightened. Creatures who make the save can still be affected if they encounter the Far creature again within 24 hours.
Spellike Abilities: Far creatures can cast Cause Fear 5/day. 8-14HD Far creatures can cast Insanity 3/day. 15HD+ Far creatures can cast Plane Shift 1/day, though they may only shift to the Far plane if they are on another plane. DCs are 10+spell level+cha.
Maddening Influence: If a creature is aware of spending more than 4 rounds within 30ft of a Far creature, it must make a will save every round thereafter DC 10+1/2HD+Cha to avoid losing sanity points equal to 1/4 the Far creature's HD. Far creatures' strangeness can eventually totally disassemble mental operations. If a creature spends more than an hour within the prescence of creature, regardless of whether it is aware of it or not, must make the same will save then and every hour thereafter with the same effects.
Summon Far Creature: A Far creature may summon a creature it has made a Far Pact with, with a chance of success equal to 10%xHD. The creature remains for as long as the Far Pact entails, or until dismissed. This is a supernatural ability.

Special Qualities:
1-7HD DR 5/magic, 8-14HD DR 8/magic, 15HD+ DR 12/magic.
Energy Resistance: Cold 10 and Sonic 5. Far creatures are able to make long journeys through the vacuum of space, and their odd construction makes them somewhat impervious to harmful vibrations.
Far creatures are immune to mind-affecting spells and effects. Their tough and randomly distributed anatomy makes them impervious to non-magical poisons and diseases, as well as non-lethal damage. For the same reasons creatures attempting to confirm a critical recieve a -4.
Far creatures have SR 10+1/2HD+cha, max 35.
Far creatures with an intelligence and a charisma score may telepathically communicate with anyone within 100ft.

Saves: As base creature.

Abilities: +2 str +2 dex +4 con. (-2 int -4 wis for creatures who are changed by the far realm).

Skills: As base creature.

Feats: Gain Improved Toughness and Great Fortitude.

CR: Help please.

LA: Help please.

Advancement: As base creature.

Whew. Glad I did that. The whole Maddening Influence ability obviously won't apply to those not using the sanity mechanics. Better?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kerik 10-11-06, 08:08 PM	I'm trying to create a template for creatures from the Far Realm, with a feel similar to the horror and horrors found in Lovecraft's books, and I'd like some help with CR, LA, and any general ideas would be appreciated. For those of you who have not read his books but would still like to contribute, here's some basic info. Some of the transdimensional and interspacial monsters from Lovecraft's stories opperate off of rules that exist in other parts of the universe, thus making their very existence incongruous to our world. Others have their beings based off of rules that exist behind all the rules that man is aware of, rules so convoluted and vague that to comprehend them you must either develop an understanding since your birth or go insane. The main constants with all these creatures are that they're quite tough, strong, and unusually flexible. There are vast differences in terms of how powerful they are, and the really powerful creatures are invariably huge and impossible to kill, unless you bind other powerful entities to your will for a short time. Those that do are usually killed in the most horrible manor possible and have their souls devoured. General Idea HD:+2 Speed: As base creature. AC: 1-10HD +4 natural armor, 11-15HD +6 natural armor, 16-20HD +8 natural armor, 21-30HD +12 natural armor +3 deflection, 31-45HD +20 natural armor +8 deflection. For every 15HD beyond that, another +5 natural armor +2 deflection. Attacks: Far creatures gain a +2 insight bonus on all attacks because of their awareness of true reality. Damage: For all damaging attacks 1-10HD +1 vile damage, 11-15HD +2 vile damage, 16-20HD +4 vile damage, 21-30HD +10 vile damage, 31HD+ +10 vile damage, and all attack damage done by creature is also vile. Special Attacks: Add +4 save DC to any special attacks made upon any non-Far creature. Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 1-10HD 5/Far, 11-20HD 10/Far, 21-30HD 20/Far, +10 dr/+10HD. Far creatures treat all non-element, non-magical, non-divine, non-psionic, and non-incarnum damage as non lethal. They are not subject to non lethal damage, and attackers take a -4 penalty when confirming a critical hit. They are not subject to pertrification, drowning, or suffocating. Fire and Cold Resistance 10. Far creatures with 20+ HD gain SR and PR 10+1/2HD+Cha. Far creatures are immune to non-magical/divine/psionic/incarnum diseases and poisons. Saves: +2 to fortitude saves. Abilities: +2 str +2 dex +4 con Skills: As base creature. Climate Terrain: Any, deep space. Organization: Varies. CR: ? Help please. Treasure: Help please. Alignment: Chaotic, usually evil. LA: ? Help please. Advancement: As base creature.
Sorcen_Anenooata 10-11-06, 08:51 PM	Far Creature Template (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=318816) by Shadowfoot Continue with yours if you like, I just put the link to help you out.
dok 10-11-06, 09:01 PM	I'm trying to create a template for creatures from the Far Realm, with a feel similar to the horror and horrors found in Lovecraft's books, and I'd like some help with CR, LA, and any general ideas would be appreciated. I'm assuming that you either are unaware of the Pseudonatural, Epic Pseudonatural, and Half-Far Realms templates that do exactly this, or you don't like them for whatever reason. The Far Realms are discussed some in the Manual of the Planes, as well as Lords of Madness. I'll also go ahead and assume you're unaware of Chaostech, a d20 suppliment by Malhavoc Press that is probably the closest thing I've seen to a good "D&D meets Lovecraft" product. The first thing that stands out about this template is what it doesn't do. Despite being from an utterly alien realm of madness & insanity, the creature doesn't actually change type?! Sure, the laws of nature are completely foreign and do not apply to those places, but an Animal is still an Animal for the Ranger to use Wild Empathy on? AC: 1-10HD +4 natural armor, 11-15HD +6 natural armor, 16-20HD +8 natural armor, 21-30HD +12 natural armor +3 deflection, 31-45HD +20 natural armor +8 deflection. For every 15HD beyond that, another +5 natural armor +2 deflection. Here's another problem. Templates that flatly scale with Hit Dice run into trouble when applied to things like Dire Animals & Vermin, which have a lot of hit dice for their CR. Look at our friend the Collossal Scorpion; at CR 12 with an AC of 26 normally, this template boosts it's AC to 54, nearly doubling it. Another issue I have is the use of a deflection bonus. Deflection bonuses represent some sort of _force_ that deflects attacks away; nothing in either the Cthulu stories or in your description suggests they have some kind of "force field" to deflect attacks. An Insight or Luck bonus would be more appropriate. Damage: For all damaging attacks 1-10HD +1 vile damage, 11-15HD +2 vile damage, 16-20HD +4 vile damage, 21-30HD +10 vile damage, 31HD+ +10 vile damage, and all attack damage done by creature is also vile. Far Realms/Lovecraft/Madness != Vile. Vile represents pure, corrupting, evilness. The Lovecraft Far Realms is madness, insanity, and "beyond the realm of things knowable", but it was never evil. Vile damage is absolutely, positively wrong here. Special Attacks: Add +4 save DC to any special attacks made upon any non-Far creature. This is terrible wording, and a terrible mechanic. Why should a "Far Realm" Dragon's breath weapon be harder to resist than a normal breath weapon? (especially since they fill the same area, deal the same kind of damage, etc. etc. etc.) Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 1-10HD 5/Far, 11-20HD 10/Far, 21-30HD 20/Far, +10 dr/+10HD. What is "far" for Damage Reduction? You don't get to describe DR in new house rules unless you also detail the house rules... Use DR x/magic (appropriate, since magic is also a 'not of this world' force used in Lovecraft stories to protect mortals from bad nasty things) or DR x/- Far creatures treat all non-element, non-magical, non-divine, non-psionic, and non-incarnum damage as non lethal. They are not subject to non lethal damage, and attackers take a -4 penalty when confirming a critical hit. These are utterly, horribly terrible rules. They're contradictory, incoherent, and inconsistent. 1.) Can you give me an example of damage that is "divine", but "non-magical"? Even just one? 2.) If a sword has magic weapon cast on it, is that "magical" damage? If a cleric casts spiritual weapon, and creates a weapon that deals Force damage, is that "magical" damage? If the two answers are different, why are they different? Is a monk's unarmed attack, when they have ki strike: magic considered magical damage? 3.) How do you reconcile the first two sentances of "...treat all ...damage as non-lethal. They are not subject to non-lethal damage..."? 4.) Why do attackers take a penalty to confirming critical hits? If it's a matter of strange biology, how is it that critical hits are harder, but Sneak Attacks still work just fine? Fire and Cold Resistance 10. Why? Seriously, this is just thrown out there without any sort of explanation at all. Why have these energy resistances? Are the Far Realms places of intense heat & cold? For that matter, why any energy resistances? Far creatures with 20+ HD gain SR and PR 10+1/2HD+Cha. Unless you're using the "Psionics are Different" variant, you don't need to state they gain both SR & PR. Uncapped SR is potentially problematic, and the formula for SR doesn't corellate well to HD. Saves: +2 to fortitude saves. Abilities: +2 str +2 dex +4 con It's clear you're still in the "beta" stage. Despite being from a realm of utter & complete madess, they have standard mental scores. Well, that makes some sense, I suppose. Here's the thing: if you give a +4 constitution modifier, that automatically results in +2 to all Fortitude saves. Right now, you're essentially double-dipping, with the creature gaining a net +4 to Fortitude, and if you keep the irrational '+2 HD' boost, that's potentially another +1 to Fort, for a net +5 which is a lot more than I think you may have intended. The same thing happens with Strength. +2 strength gives +1 to hit & damage on its attacks. But you've already given it a +2 insight bonus to attack, and another bonus to damage as Vile Damage. So again, you're double-dipping, making the creature even more powerful. I strongly suggest you look at the materials mentioned above first, and then, if they don't meet your needs, take a second stab at the template. I have a few ideas on how to make a customized Far Realm template, but I don't believe in re-inventing the wheel every few blocks if I don't have to.
Kerik 10-11-06, 11:18 PM	Alas, alack.:embarrass I'm just going to apollagize for this feat right away, this was god awful. I'm not sure what I was thinking when making it. I probably shouldn't have tryed to rush type this in 20 minutes. I'd try to remake the thing now, but I'll have to do it later because I'm short on time again, and I do not want to do something like this again. I shall repair this piece of crap.
Kerik 10-12-06, 12:47 PM	This is an inherited template, but may also be forced into a creature who has dwelt in the Far Realm too long. Creatures from the Material Plane who are in the Far Realm must make a DC 25 fortitude save every 3 months to avoid beginning the long, painful process of turning into a Far creature. After the first twelve months, the creature must make a save every year with 30 DC. This effect ignores resistance and immunity to polymorphing/transmutation. This effect is seperate from insanity effects. All Far creatures are immune to the Disturbing Prescence and Maddening Influence of other Far creatures, and automatically overcomes the damage reduction, energy resistance, spell immunity, and spell resistance of other Far creatures. The creature's type changes to Abberation, with the subtype (Far). Size remains unchanged. HD: +1. Speed: As creature's. AC: A Far creature's construction is tough because the Far Realm has warped and changed it into a more powerful and illogical form, and because it wouldn't have existed in the Far Realm long enough to make it to maturity. 1-7HD +1 natural armor, 8-14HD +2 natural armor, 15HD+ +4 natural armor. Attacks: Far creatures gain a insight bonuses on all attacks because of their awareness of true reality. 1-7HD +2, 8-14HD +3, 15HD+ +4. Special Attacks: Disturbing Prescence: Far creatures exist according to rules that are incongruous or completely contradictory to our own, and as such non-Far creatures can't percieve Far existence calmly. All creatures within 30ft of the Far creature who are not Far as well must make a will save DC 10+1/2HD+Cha or become frightened. Creatures who make the save can still be affected if they encounter the Far creature again within 24 hours. Spellike Abilities: Far creatures can cast Cause Fear 5/day. 8-14HD Far creatures can cast Insanity 3/day. 15HD+ Far creatures can cast Plane Shift 1/day, though they may only shift to the Far plane if they are on another plane. DCs are 10+spell level+cha. Maddening Influence: If a creature is aware of spending more than 4 rounds within 30ft of a Far creature, it must make a will save every round thereafter DC 10+1/2HD+Cha to avoid losing sanity points equal to 1/4 the Far creature's HD. Far creatures' strangeness can eventually totally disassemble mental operations. If a creature spends more than an hour within the prescence of creature, regardless of whether it is aware of it or not, must make the same will save then and every hour thereafter with the same effects. Summon Far Creature: A Far creature may summon a creature it has made a Far Pact with, with a chance of success equal to 10%xHD. The creature remains for as long as the Far Pact entails, or until dismissed. This is a supernatural ability. Special Qualities: 1-7HD DR 5/magic, 8-14HD DR 8/magic, 15HD+ DR 12/magic. Energy Resistance: Cold 10 and Sonic 5. Far creatures are able to make long journeys through the vacuum of space, and their odd construction makes them somewhat impervious to harmful vibrations. Far creatures are immune to mind-affecting spells and effects. Their tough and randomly distributed anatomy makes them impervious to non-magical poisons and diseases, as well as non-lethal damage. For the same reasons creatures attempting to confirm a critical recieve a -4. Far creatures have SR 10+1/2HD+cha, max 35. Far creatures with an intelligence and a charisma score may telepathically communicate with anyone within 100ft. Saves: As base creature. Abilities: +2 str +2 dex +4 con. (-2 int -4 wis for creatures who are changed by the far realm). Skills: As base creature. Feats: Gain Improved Toughness and Great Fortitude. CR: Help please. LA: Help please. Advancement: As base creature. Whew. Glad I did that. The whole Maddening Influence ability obviously won't apply to those not using the sanity mechanics. Better?