Feedback Needed; Gargatoth, father of wyverns [Archive] - Wizards Community

Feedback Needed; Gargatoth, father of wyverns [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BenjCano
09-02-03, 01:42 PM All right, flavor text ahead. I can’t seem to resist putting it in. What I’ve done here is to test my understanding of the rules for advancing monsters, and I want to know if I even began to do it right. I’ll see you after the flavor text.

Now of Gargatoth, he who is known in the Elf-tongue as Marheln Gurtha, that is “Black Scaled Death,” most loremasters will say that he fell upon the fields of Dannom, carrying his master Salophant in the last siege of Larethia, some thousand of more years ago. In that battle Salophant the Black-Hearted, exiled son of the elven kingdom, fell, pierced by arrow and spear of his brother Muriir, and troubled the green-boughed kingdom no more. But Somer, Muriir’s human esquire, was later known to have said that the day of Salophant’s fall, he witnessed a massive, shadow-winged shape descend from the clouds overhead and bear the Black-Hearted’s body away from the field, in the direction of the setting sun.

It has long been believed that the razor-peaks of Olodros have been the breeding ground of wyverns; to this day settlements within the shadows of the Cold Mountains are few and far between, the people fearful and given to casting their heads to the sky at the hint of movement from bird or tree. Though they are as closed-mouthed as befits the highland peoples, it is true that Tor Darkir, the nearest city of any size to Olodros, pays a large bounty on wyvern heads, and carefully records the size and weight of each in the official rolls. To date, none have been produced for collection that resemble the majesty of Gargatoth of legend, and on this basis is the winged terror of yesteryear believed perished.

But we would remind those eager to forget the monsters that vexed us so greatly that Gargatoth, and Salphant himself, were anointed by the foul Herald of Hell, Hextor himself, for the purpose of laying low, of dominating or destroying the blessed kingdom of Corellon Larethian, which had long opposed him. We would be negligent if we allowed that a deity as ruthless and yet resourceful as Hextor would waste a single arrow, a single soldier, even a beast so great as Gargatoth. We would also fail to give credit to Marheln Gurtha, whom the tales say displayed uncommon intelligence, loyalty, and perhaps even love for Salphant, beyond that shown by any other of his wyvern-kin. I for one find it disturbingly easy to imagine Gargatoth laying his master to rest on the high, snowy peaks of Olodros and retiring to a sheltered and secret place deep in the mountains, to sleep the sleep of ages in the manner of the wyrms of old, to wait for the coming of the next champion of Hextor, that he may once again be rode above the blood-stained fields.

Loremaster Shin-gi Yang,
When Good Sleeps

All right, enough flavor text already!

What I’d like to know is whether or not I’ve gotten this monster advancement down correct or not. I took the idea of an advanced wyvern, and the above gobblety-gook just flew from there.

Let’s start:

Gargatoth, the father of wyverns
Gargantuan Dragon Pretty standard size adjust for the number of Hit Die added.
HD: 21d12+168 Adding 14 racial Hit Die to the base. Giving him the elite array adjusted his Constitution beyond the increase in size
Hit Points: 420 I maximized here to reflect the “Creature of Legend” thing, which is reflected in the CR below.
Initiative: +3 (Dex) Using the elite array adjusted his Dexterity, as well as the increased Hit Die
Armor Class: 24 (-4 size, +3 Dex, +15 natural); touch 9, flat-footed 21.
Base Attack/Grapple: +21/+47
Attack: Sting +33 melee (2d6+16 plus poison) or talon +33 melee (4d6+16) or bite +33 melee (4d8+16). I hope I changed the damage dice correctly.
Full Attack: Sting +33 melee (2d6+16 plus poison) and bite +31 melee (4d8+8) and 2 wings +31 melee (3d8+8) and 2 talons +31 melee (4d6+8). I hope I changed the damage dice correctly.
Space/Reach: 20ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Poison (DC 28, Initial and secondary 2d6 Con), improved grab, awesome blow, snatch
Special Qualities: dragon traits, scent
Saves: Fort +18, Ref +15, Will +14
Abilities: 43 Str, 16 Dex, 26 Con, 10 Int, 14 Wis, 11 Cha. Using the elite array gave me the wyvern racial mods. For Intelligence and Charisma, I did fairly well on the charts on page 173 of the DMG, rolling a 15 for Intelligence and a 13 for Charisma. The size increase vastly augmented the Strength and the constitution as well. Adding 14 hit die qualified Gargatoth for 3 ability mods. One went into Dexterity, the rest into Strength.
Skills: Hide +13, Listen +28, Move Silently +27, Sense Motive +26, Spot +26, Survival +26
Feats: Ability Focus (poison), Alertness, Awesome Blow, Flyby Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Multiattack, Power Attack, Snatch. Adding 14 racial Hit Die qualified Gargatoth for 4 additional feats.
AL: NE To represent a servant of Hextor
CR: 16 Base wyvern CR is 6. Adding 14 Dragon Hit Die increases this by 7, maximizing hit points qualifies, I think, as a special quality for a further +2, and basing his ability scores on the elite array adds +1.

So…how have I done? The rules for improving monsters are a little complicated, and I want to know if I’m just way out there in left field.

By the way, a critique of the flavor text would be kinda cool, too. But anyway, the mechanics, mostly.
sandskimmer
09-02-03, 07:21 PM I'm not sure where you got that +17 "Just natural armor, straight from the book."

Wyverns have natural armor +8, and a size increase to Huge yields a +3 bonus, followed by the increase to Gargantuan yielding a +4 AC increase. So I think it should be +15 (+8, +3, +4 = 15).
See p.291 "Changes to Statistics by Size"

Also, Gargantuan creatures get a -4 penalty to AC & BAB, not a -7 as you have listed.

Otherwise, it looks good.
BenjCano
09-02-03, 07:32 PM You're absolutely right on that...it's tricky, that's all there is to it. I'll got back and fix it later.
BenjCano
09-05-03, 01:41 PM (shameless, self-promoting bump)
Mr.Waesel
09-06-03, 03:59 PM If I may be so bold:

Gargatoth's Cloak

Not apparent at first sight, but Gargatoth wears a cloak. It's made out of the hide of the children who tried to overthrow him, whom he killed as punishment. It is rumored that this cloak was made by Mekorig, one of the most skilled Duergar craftsmen to ever walk the earth. This cloak protects Gargatoth against the attacks of other Wyverns and the weapons most commonly used by those who hunt him, as well as giving him an easy retreat, should he ever need it.

Gargatoth's cloak makes the wearer immune to poison, and gives him DR 10/- against attacks by Wyverns. Further, the cloak grants spell resistance 27, Fire, Cold, Acid, Electricity and Sonic Resistance 10, and allows the wearer to use Greater Teleport, Greater Invisibility and Expedious Retreat each once per day.

Caster level 13, Weight: 20 lb. Aura: Strong Abjuration magic. Market price: -.

With this cloak, Gargatoth is truly the most powerful of Wyverns.
---------------------------------

Hope you like it! :D Oh, and creds go to BenjCano, because he (she?) gave me the idea, and I don't want to hijack his (her?) thread.

EDIT: Sheesh, it's CLOAK, not anything else :/
BenjCano
09-06-03, 04:03 PM Originally posted by Mr.Waesel
If I may be so bold:

Please, not at all.

Originally posted by Mr.Waesel
Gargatoth's claock makes the wearer immune to poison, and gives him DR 10/- against attacks by Wyverns. Further, the cloak grants spell resistance 27, Fire, Cold, Acid, Electricity and Sonic Resistance 10, and allows the wearer to use Greater Teleport, Greater Invisibility and Expedious Retreat each once per day.

Just a quick note, a creature with the Poison ability is automatically immune to the poison of other creatures of its kind.

Originally posted by Mr.Waesel
Hope you like it! :D Oh, and creds go to BenjCano, because he (she?) gave me the idea, and I don't want to hijack his (her?) thread.

He is definately gratified that his post inspired you enough to create a work of your own. I like it, thank you much.
Mr.Waesel
09-06-03, 04:05 PM The cloak makes him immune to all poison, but yeah, I forgot that. :)
Mr.Waesel
09-06-03, 04:07 PM Oh, and checking Gargatoth's stats again, I don't see his speed anywhere....
BenjCano
09-06-03, 04:10 PM According to the Monster Manual, incresing the Hit Die doesn't change the speed, so it's standard for a wyvern. 20 ft. (4 squares), fly 60 ft. (poor). I don't agree with it, but I don't care enough to fiddle.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BenjCano 09-02-03, 01:42 PM	All right, flavor text ahead. I can’t seem to resist putting it in. What I’ve done here is to test my understanding of the rules for advancing monsters, and I want to know if I even began to do it right. I’ll see you after the flavor text. Now of Gargatoth, he who is known in the Elf-tongue as Marheln Gurtha, that is “Black Scaled Death,” most loremasters will say that he fell upon the fields of Dannom, carrying his master Salophant in the last siege of Larethia, some thousand of more years ago. In that battle Salophant the Black-Hearted, exiled son of the elven kingdom, fell, pierced by arrow and spear of his brother Muriir, and troubled the green-boughed kingdom no more. But Somer, Muriir’s human esquire, was later known to have said that the day of Salophant’s fall, he witnessed a massive, shadow-winged shape descend from the clouds overhead and bear the Black-Hearted’s body away from the field, in the direction of the setting sun. It has long been believed that the razor-peaks of Olodros have been the breeding ground of wyverns; to this day settlements within the shadows of the Cold Mountains are few and far between, the people fearful and given to casting their heads to the sky at the hint of movement from bird or tree. Though they are as closed-mouthed as befits the highland peoples, it is true that Tor Darkir, the nearest city of any size to Olodros, pays a large bounty on wyvern heads, and carefully records the size and weight of each in the official rolls. To date, none have been produced for collection that resemble the majesty of Gargatoth of legend, and on this basis is the winged terror of yesteryear believed perished. But we would remind those eager to forget the monsters that vexed us so greatly that Gargatoth, and Salphant himself, were anointed by the foul Herald of Hell, Hextor himself, for the purpose of laying low, of dominating or destroying the blessed kingdom of Corellon Larethian, which had long opposed him. We would be negligent if we allowed that a deity as ruthless and yet resourceful as Hextor would waste a single arrow, a single soldier, even a beast so great as Gargatoth. We would also fail to give credit to Marheln Gurtha, whom the tales say displayed uncommon intelligence, loyalty, and perhaps even love for Salphant, beyond that shown by any other of his wyvern-kin. I for one find it disturbingly easy to imagine Gargatoth laying his master to rest on the high, snowy peaks of Olodros and retiring to a sheltered and secret place deep in the mountains, to sleep the sleep of ages in the manner of the wyrms of old, to wait for the coming of the next champion of Hextor, that he may once again be rode above the blood-stained fields. Loremaster Shin-gi Yang, When Good Sleeps All right, enough flavor text already! What I’d like to know is whether or not I’ve gotten this monster advancement down correct or not. I took the idea of an advanced wyvern, and the above gobblety-gook just flew from there. Let’s start: Gargatoth, the father of wyverns Gargantuan Dragon Pretty standard size adjust for the number of Hit Die added. HD: 21d12+168 Adding 14 racial Hit Die to the base. Giving him the elite array adjusted his Constitution beyond the increase in size Hit Points: 420 I maximized here to reflect the “Creature of Legend” thing, which is reflected in the CR below. Initiative: +3 (Dex) Using the elite array adjusted his Dexterity, as well as the increased Hit Die Armor Class: 24 (-4 size, +3 Dex, +15 natural); touch 9, flat-footed 21. Base Attack/Grapple: +21/+47 Attack: Sting +33 melee (2d6+16 plus poison) or talon +33 melee (4d6+16) or bite +33 melee (4d8+16). I hope I changed the damage dice correctly. Full Attack: Sting +33 melee (2d6+16 plus poison) and bite +31 melee (4d8+8) and 2 wings +31 melee (3d8+8) and 2 talons +31 melee (4d6+8). I hope I changed the damage dice correctly. Space/Reach: 20ft./15 ft. Special Attacks: Poison (DC 28, Initial and secondary 2d6 Con), improved grab, awesome blow, snatch Special Qualities: dragon traits, scent Saves: Fort +18, Ref +15, Will +14 Abilities: 43 Str, 16 Dex, 26 Con, 10 Int, 14 Wis, 11 Cha. Using the elite array gave me the wyvern racial mods. For Intelligence and Charisma, I did fairly well on the charts on page 173 of the DMG, rolling a 15 for Intelligence and a 13 for Charisma. The size increase vastly augmented the Strength and the constitution as well. Adding 14 hit die qualified Gargatoth for 3 ability mods. One went into Dexterity, the rest into Strength. Skills: Hide +13, Listen +28, Move Silently +27, Sense Motive +26, Spot +26, Survival +26 Feats: Ability Focus (poison), Alertness, Awesome Blow, Flyby Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Multiattack, Power Attack, Snatch. Adding 14 racial Hit Die qualified Gargatoth for 4 additional feats. AL: NE To represent a servant of Hextor CR: 16 Base wyvern CR is 6. Adding 14 Dragon Hit Die increases this by 7, maximizing hit points qualifies, I think, as a special quality for a further +2, and basing his ability scores on the elite array adds +1. So…how have I done? The rules for improving monsters are a little complicated, and I want to know if I’m just way out there in left field. By the way, a critique of the flavor text would be kinda cool, too. But anyway, the mechanics, mostly.
sandskimmer 09-02-03, 07:21 PM	I'm not sure where you got that +17 "Just natural armor, straight from the book." Wyverns have natural armor +8, and a size increase to Huge yields a +3 bonus, followed by the increase to Gargantuan yielding a +4 AC increase. So I think it should be +15 (+8, +3, +4 = 15). See p.291 "Changes to Statistics by Size" Also, Gargantuan creatures get a -4 penalty to AC & BAB, not a -7 as you have listed. Otherwise, it looks good.
BenjCano 09-02-03, 07:32 PM	You're absolutely right on that...it's tricky, that's all there is to it. I'll got back and fix it later.
BenjCano 09-05-03, 01:41 PM	(shameless, self-promoting bump)
Mr.Waesel 09-06-03, 03:59 PM	If I may be so bold: Gargatoth's Cloak Not apparent at first sight, but Gargatoth wears a cloak. It's made out of the hide of the children who tried to overthrow him, whom he killed as punishment. It is rumored that this cloak was made by Mekorig, one of the most skilled Duergar craftsmen to ever walk the earth. This cloak protects Gargatoth against the attacks of other Wyverns and the weapons most commonly used by those who hunt him, as well as giving him an easy retreat, should he ever need it. Gargatoth's cloak makes the wearer immune to poison, and gives him DR 10/- against attacks by Wyverns. Further, the cloak grants spell resistance 27, Fire, Cold, Acid, Electricity and Sonic Resistance 10, and allows the wearer to use Greater Teleport, Greater Invisibility and Expedious Retreat each once per day. Caster level 13, Weight: 20 lb. Aura: Strong Abjuration magic. Market price: -. With this cloak, Gargatoth is truly the most powerful of Wyverns. --------------------------------- Hope you like it! :D Oh, and creds go to BenjCano, because he (she?) gave me the idea, and I don't want to hijack his (her?) thread. EDIT: Sheesh, it's CLOAK, not anything else :/
BenjCano 09-06-03, 04:03 PM	Originally posted by Mr.Waesel If I may be so bold: Please, not at all. Originally posted by Mr.Waesel Gargatoth's claock makes the wearer immune to poison, and gives him DR 10/- against attacks by Wyverns. Further, the cloak grants spell resistance 27, Fire, Cold, Acid, Electricity and Sonic Resistance 10, and allows the wearer to use Greater Teleport, Greater Invisibility and Expedious Retreat each once per day. Just a quick note, a creature with the Poison ability is automatically immune to the poison of other creatures of its kind. Originally posted by Mr.Waesel Hope you like it! :D Oh, and creds go to BenjCano, because he (she?) gave me the idea, and I don't want to hijack his (her?) thread. He is definately gratified that his post inspired you enough to create a work of your own. I like it, thank you much.
Mr.Waesel 09-06-03, 04:05 PM	The cloak makes him immune to all poison, but yeah, I forgot that. :)
Mr.Waesel 09-06-03, 04:07 PM	Oh, and checking Gargatoth's stats again, I don't see his speed anywhere....
BenjCano 09-06-03, 04:10 PM	According to the Monster Manual, incresing the Hit Die doesn't change the speed, so it's standard for a wyvern. 20 ft. (4 squares), fly 60 ft. (poor). I don't agree with it, but I don't care enough to fiddle.