Feyrs [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Feyrs [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
blackjackg
03-07-06, 07:08 PM Do these creepy mood-altering brain monsters still exist in 3rd ed? I don't have any MMs with me right now, and they aren't mentioned in the SRD. Might they be in some supplement somewhere?
dok
03-07-06, 07:12 PM There is a creature by that name in the MMII, but it's a train-wreck; it's CR is too high, its abilities contradictory, and it's overall poorly designed. You'd be better off converting the creature on your own.
Pennarin
03-07-06, 10:08 PM They also appear in Dragon Magazine I believe.
DungeonMaster
03-08-06, 07:52 AM Feyr's are in the MM2 and despite Doc's pessimism they're pretty good monsters if used intelligently . You need to use 3rd edition rules though because abilities like "emotion" simply don't exist in 3.5 (and/or have been mutilated beyond recognition).
dok
03-08-06, 02:33 PM Feyr's are in the MM2 and despite Doc's pessimism they're pretty good monsters if used intelligently . You need to use 3rd edition rules though because abilities like "emotion" simply don't exist in 3.5 (and/or have been mutilated beyond recognition).

I wasn't speaking from pessimism. I was speaking from experience.

The Fihyr has 18 hit points, an AC of 18, and one attack at +2 for 1d4-2 damage. It has no special attacks except for Frightful Presence (DC 10). It has no DR, an SR of CR +7, and no other special qualities that work in its favor. And yet, for some reason, it's listed as CR 3. Find me any other CR 3 monster that has so few hit points with such a low AC, only one weak special attack, and one weak special quality.

Even Mephits have DR, a breath weapon, and spell-like abilities. All the Fihyr does is act as an XP pinata, waiting to be clobbered.

The "Great Fihyr" is an ever bigger travesty. It has 88 hit points, the same AC of 18, and four attacks at +12 for 2d6 each. It's got no DR, an SR of CR +3, a frightful presence DC of 20, and two special abilities. It can become invisible (as per the 2nd level spell) as a standard action, but as an Ex ability. This, plus their emotion control ability (see below) nets them a CR of 15. That's right. CR 15, no special defenses other than an at-will invisibility effect, an SR that only works 10% of the time, a melee AC that a 10th level Wizard can reliably hit with a dagger, and 88 hit points. Once again, I challenge anyone to find a CR 15 monster in the SRD that has no DR, nearly nonexistent SR, an AC of 18, and only 88 hit points.

It's emotion control ability doesn't translate into 3.5 terms for the most part. It can use crushing despair at will. The 3.0 emotion (fear) effect doesn't translate, but that's a good thing, since the 3.0 version read: "The enchanted creatures flee from the character whenever they are in sight of the character". Considering that the Great Fihyr is suppposed to be invisible most of the time, making creatures flee as long as they can see the Great Fihyr is pretty stupid. The only marginally useful ability was emotion (rage), which compelled creatures to fight. That doesn't translate well into 3.5 spells, but even if it did, the saving throw to resist the Great Fihry's Spell-like Abilities is 12+level, and these effects are meant to be arond 4th level, so that's a DC 16 for a CR 15 monster; even an 11th level Fighter or Rogue with the appropriate amount of treasure can make that save without too much sweat; anyone with a Good will save won't even bat an eye.

If the Great Fihyr had improved invisibility, beter ability scores, a meaningful SR value, andn spell-like abilities that actually did something effective ("oooh, crushing despair! My 11th level fighter takes a -2 penalty to attack!") then the monster might be salvagable. But that would involve a rather thorough re-write, which is why you're better off starting from scratch.

Plus, it's generally bad design to have a "lesser" and "greater" version of a mosnter that could never be used together. The Fihyr is CR 3; the Great Fihyr is CR 15. You would have to use twelve Fihyrs to challenge an 10th level party that could also reasonably face the CR 15 Great Fihyr. And realisticly, it doesn't matter how many CR 3 monsters you use, a CR 3 monster is incapable of genuinely challenging a 10th level PC in any meaningful way.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
blackjackg 03-07-06, 07:08 PM	Do these creepy mood-altering brain monsters still exist in 3rd ed? I don't have any MMs with me right now, and they aren't mentioned in the SRD. Might they be in some supplement somewhere?
dok 03-07-06, 07:12 PM	There is a creature by that name in the MMII, but it's a train-wreck; it's CR is too high, its abilities contradictory, and it's overall poorly designed. You'd be better off converting the creature on your own.
Pennarin 03-07-06, 10:08 PM	They also appear in Dragon Magazine I believe.
DungeonMaster 03-08-06, 07:52 AM	Feyr's are in the MM2 and despite Doc's pessimism they're pretty good monsters if used intelligently . You need to use 3rd edition rules though because abilities like "emotion" simply don't exist in 3.5 (and/or have been mutilated beyond recognition).
dok 03-08-06, 02:33 PM	Feyr's are in the MM2 and despite Doc's pessimism they're pretty good monsters if used intelligently . You need to use 3rd edition rules though because abilities like "emotion" simply don't exist in 3.5 (and/or have been mutilated beyond recognition). I wasn't speaking from pessimism. I was speaking from experience. The Fihyr has 18 hit points, an AC of 18, and one attack at +2 for 1d4-2 damage. It has no special attacks except for Frightful Presence (DC 10). It has no DR, an SR of CR +7, and no other special qualities that work in its favor. And yet, for some reason, it's listed as CR 3. Find me any other CR 3 monster that has so few hit points with such a low AC, only one weak special attack, and one weak special quality. Even Mephits have DR, a breath weapon, and spell-like abilities. All the Fihyr does is act as an XP pinata, waiting to be clobbered. The "Great Fihyr" is an ever bigger travesty. It has 88 hit points, the same AC of 18, and four attacks at +12 for 2d6 each. It's got no DR, an SR of CR +3, a frightful presence DC of 20, and two special abilities. It can become invisible (as per the 2nd level spell) as a standard action, but as an Ex ability. This, plus their emotion control ability (see below) nets them a CR of 15. That's right. CR 15, no special defenses other than an at-will invisibility effect, an SR that only works 10% of the time, a melee AC that a 10th level Wizard can reliably hit with a dagger, and 88 hit points. Once again, I challenge anyone to find a CR 15 monster in the SRD that has no DR, nearly nonexistent SR, an AC of 18, and only 88 hit points. It's emotion control ability doesn't translate into 3.5 terms for the most part. It can use crushing despair at will. The 3.0 emotion (fear) effect doesn't translate, but that's a good thing, since the 3.0 version read: "The enchanted creatures flee from the character whenever they are in sight of the character". Considering that the Great Fihyr is suppposed to be invisible most of the time, making creatures flee as long as they can see the Great Fihyr is pretty stupid. The only marginally useful ability was emotion (rage), which compelled creatures to fight. That doesn't translate well into 3.5 spells, but even if it did, the saving throw to resist the Great Fihry's Spell-like Abilities is 12+level, and these effects are meant to be arond 4th level, so that's a DC 16 for a CR 15 monster; even an 11th level Fighter or Rogue with the appropriate amount of treasure can make that save without too much sweat; anyone with a Good will save won't even bat an eye. If the Great Fihyr had improved invisibility, beter ability scores, a meaningful SR value, andn spell-like abilities that actually did something effective ("oooh, crushing despair! My 11th level fighter takes a -2 penalty to attack!") then the monster might be salvagable. But that would involve a rather thorough re-write, which is why you're better off starting from scratch. Plus, it's generally bad design to have a "lesser" and "greater" version of a mosnter that could never be used together. The Fihyr is CR 3; the Great Fihyr is CR 15. You would have to use twelve Fihyrs to challenge an 10th level party that could also reasonably face the CR 15 Great Fihyr. And realisticly, it doesn't matter how many CR 3 monsters you use, a CR 3 monster is incapable of genuinely challenging a 10th level PC in any meaningful way.