Fighting a vampire soon, and I have a few ?s about thier weaknesses [Archive] - Wizards Community

Fighting a vampire soon, and I have a few ?s about thier weaknesses [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
RikuKupo
11-22-06, 09:23 AM Two questions. In the SRD it says that if you show a vampire a mirror, it can't touch you or make melee attacks against you for the rest of the encounter. Does that still work if you put the mirror away? Same for holy symbols. If you show it to the vampire, and then put it around your neck, can he still not attack, or do you need to hold it in your hand? And about running water. I was planning on using one of those bottles of endless water to make a little moat that he couldn't cross. Would that be allowed? And is there a magic item that can move large amounts of dirt quickly? I know there's an artifact that can do it... I'm not going to be a spellcaster either.
Arien_Drajanuma
11-22-06, 09:43 AM A good one: Ask your DM if you can take a -4 penalty on your attack to aim at its heart with an arrow. If you hit it, you've effectively put a wodden stick through its heart, disabling it. Nowhere does it say how big a stake shoud be, and an arrow shaft is not THAT different
Dunamin
11-22-06, 12:19 PM And about running water. I was planning on using one of those bottles of endless water to make a little moat that he couldn't cross. Would that be allowed?
It needs to be running water, so a moat as such won't do. However, if you had the bottle continously pouring water in, I think that would qualify (the water would eventually go somewhere, so with both new water coming in and old water going out, that should be enough).

A good one: Ask your DM if you can take a -4 penalty on your attack to aim at its heart with an arrow. If you hit it, you've effectively put a wodden stick through its heart, disabling it. Nowhere does it say how big a stake shoud be, and an arrow shaft is not THAT different
I am strongly against this. Would you prefer every future well-hitting foe doing the same with the PCs? And at only -4? Called shots, no thank you.
Mysticaloctopus
11-22-06, 12:34 PM The shot to the heart, no. I allow crits on vampires because they have weak areas - the neck and heart both allow for high damage in one shot, and allowing a critical hit with weapons that realistically could harm these areas is a god way of making it both realistic and not overpowered. Vampires have always been vorp-able, after all, due to decapitation issues.
darth_borehd
11-22-06, 01:01 PM Maybe allowing a critical hit on the vampire would solve the problem. Afterall, their heart is vulnerable to wooden pointy things.
Arien_Drajanuma
11-22-06, 02:37 PM Maybe allowing a critical hit on the vampire would solve the problem. Afterall, their heart is vulnerable to wooden pointy things.

That's why I pulled the arrow trick when my party members were all about to be killed. Anyway, there's a lot of ways you could prevent it from getting out of hand, the first one being some kind of protection (like a reinforced part of the armor) over the heart, to prevent arrows from going in.

If you want to try the arrow trick, I suggest you do it only once, otherwise, like everyone said, it would be really unbalancing... save it as a last resort to save everyone's lives, and your DM might allow it because of the situation.

What do you guys think? more acceptable this way? After all it's just an original way to use a weakness against an enemy...
Dunamin
11-22-06, 03:42 PM I don't like it, I'm afraid. Rules should be consistent. If you allow a mere -4 penalty for having a succesfull attack stick an arrow in the heart of a vampire, the same should be true against humanoids. And that wouldn't be fun at all.

Why would you twist the rules to save the PCs? It is supposed to be a fair game, without any pulled punches by the DM. If a fight is going against the PCs, special rules shouldn't suddenly be invented mid-battle to give them an edge.

And if you allow protection over the heart to prevent this tactic, what's the point anyway? Every vampire would be so protected.
Sildatorak
11-22-06, 04:20 PM A good one: Ask your DM if you can take a -4 penalty on your attack to aim at its heart with an arrow. If you hit it, you've effectively put a wodden stick through its heart, disabling it. Nowhere does it say how big a stake shoud be, and an arrow shaft is not THAT different

If your DM allows this, the next thing you should do is ask if you can take a -4 penalty to aim at the heart of the (insert humanoid opponent here). If you hit it, you'll effectively put a wooden stick through its heart and disable it.

Personally, I think the best way to deal with the staking issue is just to have vampires be subject to CDG by wooden stakes. The normal rules (helpless, etc.) still apply, but if those conditions are met, it is likely lights out for the vamp.
RikuKupo
11-22-06, 07:44 PM What about daylight? Does the spell count?
Sildatorak
11-22-06, 08:49 PM What about daylight? Does the spell count?
No. It has to be direct sunlight.
RavenDrake
11-22-06, 10:55 PM Note that certain spells (Sunbeam and Sunburst, for instance) state that they do "sunlight" style damage to light vulnerable undead. Those spells, though, are quite rare (and high level) and may be difficult to come across depending on the characters you have available.

As for the Mirror and Holy symbol, I would have to say they have to be strongly presented(meaning you would have to keep them in hand and brandish them to make them work), but i would allow you to use only one hand to do so, leaving the other free for other options.

As for the decanter of water, your DM may differ, but In my games it has to be naturally running water such as a river. Still waters, like a moat, or man-made torrents like that from a decanter don't count.
Tharivol_Nailo
11-25-06, 07:42 PM To kill a vampire a wooden stake has to be driven through the beasts heart. An arrow shaft has fletchings and a metal tip so it wont count.
blue_ghost11
11-25-06, 10:10 PM get hammer and alot of garlic
blue_ghost11
11-25-06, 10:11 PM how do u get an avatar??
Kojiro James
11-26-06, 02:14 AM By investing in the Salient Divine Ability like all good little Gods and Goddesses.
darth_borehd
11-28-06, 11:56 AM To kill a vampire a wooden stake has to be driven through the beasts heart. An arrow shaft has fletchings and a metal tip so it wont count.

Yeah but Buffy throws wooden stakes at vampires.
:D
Mindolin
11-28-06, 12:10 PM I would recommend finding a scroll of Sunburst, my character managed to clear a room of about 25 vampires in one shot like that. DM was doing random treasure rolls, and right before the Vampire Room, my character managed to get a lucky roll.

Also, for the Decanter of Endless Water, you might be able to use it, but not the way that you are thinking. First off, if you simply make a moat, that does nothing, as the Vampire is unable to cross running water. Howver, as was evidenced in the solo gamebook "Master of Ravenloft", Strahd is able to be killed using a decanter at 'Geyser Mode', with the standard three round duration. Give the decanter and strict instructions to the strongest character, as a Strength check is required to hold the decanter in the direction that you choose. Also, in the Vampire description, it does not say it needs to be natural water, so,by RAW, this trick works.
darth_borehd
11-28-06, 12:38 PM There's some vampire weaknesses that aren't really covered in the Monster Manual but appear in folklore.

Vampires can't cross into consecrated ground.
They have a severe allergy to freshly picked roses from a graveyard.
They are compulsively neat. Scattering something on the floor can make the vampire stop and pick them up or organize them.
Critical_Failure
11-28-06, 01:26 PM There's some vampire weaknesses that aren't really covered in the Monster Manual but appear in folklore.

Vampires can't cross into consecrated ground.
They have a severe allergy to freshly picked roses from a graveyard.
They are compulsively neat. Scattering something on the floor can make the vampire stop and pick them up or organize them.

additionally (i think it is an obscure romanian legend) they can be killed by biting on a slice of lemon

citric acid FTW
Mindolin
11-28-06, 02:33 PM That's some very nice info, but sadly does not help with how to kill the blood-sucker in D&D, as they are not weak to those things in this game.
Critical_Failure
11-28-06, 03:30 PM That's some very nice info, but sadly does not help with how to kill the blood-sucker in D&D, as they are not weak to those things in this game.

just talk about them to the dm and cite your sources

he may make it a bit toughetr but you can go there confident in your characters +3 lemon of vampire slaying
RikuKupo
11-28-06, 05:15 PM Neat??? I've never heard that one before.... :thinks:
RavenDrake
11-28-06, 11:59 PM It's more an obsession. Their minds decay and they become preocupied with menial tasks. Throwing a handful of rice, toothpicks, or wooden skewers in the air or at thier feet will force them to pick them up and allign them properly, even if they risk exposure to sunlight to do so.

It's part of the oldest of obyri myths, along with the fact that supposedly they could only be killed by damphir(half-vampire/half-human spawn. In some myths the only creature who could kill a powerful vampire was a damphir that they themselves created).

Of course, this same mythology and old wives talery told of no less than 30 ways to kill a vampire including beheading it(and/or doing any number of things to the head such as stuffing it's mouth with communion wafers or burning it and burrying the ashes on holy ground), submerging it in holy water, driving iron nails through it's forehead, filling one of it's sock with stones and throwing it into a swift-flowing river, cutting off it's feet and burying them seperate from it's body so it can't stand up in the grave any more and several other equally riduclous and fanciful myths(well, even more ridiculous and fanciful than the normal vampire mythology used for the core vampire).
OzyBurrfoot
11-29-06, 02:34 PM Why would you twist the rules to save the PCs? It is supposed to be a fair game, without any pulled punches by the DM.
What kind of games are you playing? The point of the game is to have fun, and it even states (somewhere, I forget where) that one of the main reasons for having DM Screens is to be able to fudge rolls, particularly to prevent random luck from killing off all the PCs.

how do u get an avatar??By investing in the Salient Divine Ability like all good little Gods and Goddesses.
:rimshot: Nice..
RikuKupo
11-29-06, 05:02 PM I thought Dhampir was a made up thing... It's an awesome book! Yea, random :rofl:
darth_borehd
11-29-06, 05:53 PM I also did some reading and found that burying their coffins upside down or sprinkling poppy seeds in a circle around their coffins will stop vampires from rising that night.
Dunamin
11-30-06, 05:12 AM What kind of games are you playing? The point of the game is to have fun, and it even states (somewhere, I forget where) that one of the main reasons for having DM Screens is to be able to fudge rolls, particularly to prevent random luck from killing off all the PCs.
I play D&D, how about you?
In this game there is a very real possibility of PCs dieing. DMs are not supposed to save the PCs, just because a perfectly fair fight happened to go against the PCs by chance or bad tactical play. If you always use deus ex machina to save the PCs, the game will become dull and boring.
OzyBurrfoot
11-30-06, 10:18 AM But there is a BIG difference in using deus ex machina and "not pulling any punches" fudging a die roll here or there is all in the spirit of the game. You make it sound like as a DM you go out of your way to kill off the PCs. Or that your playing a game thats DM vs PC.
RikuKupo
11-30-06, 03:14 PM Wait a sec, back to the holy symbol thing. in the SRD it says that a vampire can't touch or make melee attacks against the guy holding the symbol for the rest of the encounter. NOT as long as he holds the symbol. If I don't care if he's within 5 feet of me, can I just flash the symbol once and he's stuck for the rest of the fight?
Tharivol_Nailo
11-30-06, 07:38 PM Wait a sec, back to the holy symbol thing. in the SRD it says that a vampire can't touch or make melee attacks against the guy holding the symbol for the rest of the encounter. NOT as long as he holds the symbol. If I don't care if he's within 5 feet of me, can I just flash the symbol once and he's stuck for the rest of the fight?

It said a strongly presented holy symbol. As a DM i would rule that you had to have it in hand.
Dunamin
12-01-06, 01:09 AM You make it sound like as a DM you go out of your way to kill off the PCs. Or that your playing a game thats DM vs PC.
This is certainly not the case.
I objected to the presented scenario of inventing a special rule that allowed an arrow to be placed in the heart of an enemy vampire at a mere -4 penalty... because the party was losing the fight.
This is the kind of thing I think is poor DMing - inventing a drastically unbalanced rule to save the PCs, when there were no unjust conditions mentioned for the PCs for the fight, and thus I assume the fight started out as a fair one.
Inventing special rules on the fly like that, is going out of your way to save the PCs. And not fudging rolls to save PCs all the time, does not make a DM vs PC game. It makes a fair one.

Wait a sec, back to the holy symbol thing. in the SRD it says that a vampire can't touch or make melee attacks against the guy holding the symbol for the rest of the encounter. NOT as long as he holds the symbol. If I don't care if he's within 5 feet of me, can I just flash the symbol once and he's stuck for the rest of the fight?
I agree with Tharivol Nailo. I think the wording of the vampire weakness in the MM is poor, but that the designers intended for the character in question to present the holy symbol continously during the fight (if he/she wanted to continously be so protected).
Kerbouchard
12-02-06, 01:31 PM "Similarly, they recoil from a mirror or a strongly presented holy symbol. These things don't harm the vampire-they merely keep it at bay. A recoiling vampire must stay at least 5 feet away from a creature holding the mirror or holy symbol and cannot touch or make melee attacks against the creature holding the item for the rest of the encounter. Holding a vampire at bay takes a standard action."

Sounds to me like you have to use a standard action each round to keep the vamp at bay. So I'd say you'd have to be actually holding the mirror or holy symbol for it to have effect. If you stop doing that...the vamp can attack as normal.

Kerbouchard
Sildatorak
12-02-06, 06:10 PM A recoiling vampire must stay at least 5 feet away from a creature holding the mirror or holy symbol and cannot touch or make melee attacks against the creature holding the item for the rest of the encounter. Holding a vampire at bay takes a standard action."

Sounds to me like you have to use a standard action each round to keep the vamp at bay. So I'd say you'd have to be actually holding the mirror or holy symbol for it to have effect. If you stop doing that...the vamp can attack as normal.

Kerbouchard
Though I agree with you that the intent is definitely that a standard action should be used each round to keep the vamp back, the way it is written only suggests that you have to continue holding the item. Personally, I think that the "holding" part is a load. If that were the case, vampires would be unable to nail anyone except during a surprise round or if they won initiative.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RikuKupo 11-22-06, 09:23 AM	Two questions. In the SRD it says that if you show a vampire a mirror, it can't touch you or make melee attacks against you for the rest of the encounter. Does that still work if you put the mirror away? Same for holy symbols. If you show it to the vampire, and then put it around your neck, can he still not attack, or do you need to hold it in your hand? And about running water. I was planning on using one of those bottles of endless water to make a little moat that he couldn't cross. Would that be allowed? And is there a magic item that can move large amounts of dirt quickly? I know there's an artifact that can do it... I'm not going to be a spellcaster either.
Arien_Drajanuma 11-22-06, 09:43 AM	A good one: Ask your DM if you can take a -4 penalty on your attack to aim at its heart with an arrow. If you hit it, you've effectively put a wodden stick through its heart, disabling it. Nowhere does it say how big a stake shoud be, and an arrow shaft is not THAT different
Dunamin 11-22-06, 12:19 PM	And about running water. I was planning on using one of those bottles of endless water to make a little moat that he couldn't cross. Would that be allowed? It needs to be running water, so a moat as such won't do. However, if you had the bottle continously pouring water in, I think that would qualify (the water would eventually go somewhere, so with both new water coming in and old water going out, that should be enough). A good one: Ask your DM if you can take a -4 penalty on your attack to aim at its heart with an arrow. If you hit it, you've effectively put a wodden stick through its heart, disabling it. Nowhere does it say how big a stake shoud be, and an arrow shaft is not THAT different I am strongly against this. Would you prefer every future well-hitting foe doing the same with the PCs? And at only -4? Called shots, no thank you.
Mysticaloctopus 11-22-06, 12:34 PM	The shot to the heart, no. I allow crits on vampires because they have weak areas - the neck and heart both allow for high damage in one shot, and allowing a critical hit with weapons that realistically could harm these areas is a god way of making it both realistic and not overpowered. Vampires have always been vorp-able, after all, due to decapitation issues.
darth_borehd 11-22-06, 01:01 PM	Maybe allowing a critical hit on the vampire would solve the problem. Afterall, their heart is vulnerable to wooden pointy things.
Arien_Drajanuma 11-22-06, 02:37 PM	Maybe allowing a critical hit on the vampire would solve the problem. Afterall, their heart is vulnerable to wooden pointy things. That's why I pulled the arrow trick when my party members were all about to be killed. Anyway, there's a lot of ways you could prevent it from getting out of hand, the first one being some kind of protection (like a reinforced part of the armor) over the heart, to prevent arrows from going in. If you want to try the arrow trick, I suggest you do it only once, otherwise, like everyone said, it would be really unbalancing... save it as a last resort to save everyone's lives, and your DM might allow it because of the situation. What do you guys think? more acceptable this way? After all it's just an original way to use a weakness against an enemy...
Dunamin 11-22-06, 03:42 PM	I don't like it, I'm afraid. Rules should be consistent. If you allow a mere -4 penalty for having a succesfull attack stick an arrow in the heart of a vampire, the same should be true against humanoids. And that wouldn't be fun at all. Why would you twist the rules to save the PCs? It is supposed to be a fair game, without any pulled punches by the DM. If a fight is going against the PCs, special rules shouldn't suddenly be invented mid-battle to give them an edge. And if you allow protection over the heart to prevent this tactic, what's the point anyway? Every vampire would be so protected.
Sildatorak 11-22-06, 04:20 PM	A good one: Ask your DM if you can take a -4 penalty on your attack to aim at its heart with an arrow. If you hit it, you've effectively put a wodden stick through its heart, disabling it. Nowhere does it say how big a stake shoud be, and an arrow shaft is not THAT different If your DM allows this, the next thing you should do is ask if you can take a -4 penalty to aim at the heart of the (insert humanoid opponent here). If you hit it, you'll effectively put a wooden stick through its heart and disable it. Personally, I think the best way to deal with the staking issue is just to have vampires be subject to CDG by wooden stakes. The normal rules (helpless, etc.) still apply, but if those conditions are met, it is likely lights out for the vamp.
RikuKupo 11-22-06, 07:44 PM	What about daylight? Does the spell count?
Sildatorak 11-22-06, 08:49 PM	What about daylight? Does the spell count? No. It has to be direct sunlight.
RavenDrake 11-22-06, 10:55 PM	Note that certain spells (Sunbeam and Sunburst, for instance) state that they do "sunlight" style damage to light vulnerable undead. Those spells, though, are quite rare (and high level) and may be difficult to come across depending on the characters you have available. As for the Mirror and Holy symbol, I would have to say they have to be strongly presented(meaning you would have to keep them in hand and brandish them to make them work), but i would allow you to use only one hand to do so, leaving the other free for other options. As for the decanter of water, your DM may differ, but In my games it has to be naturally running water such as a river. Still waters, like a moat, or man-made torrents like that from a decanter don't count.
Tharivol_Nailo 11-25-06, 07:42 PM	To kill a vampire a wooden stake has to be driven through the beasts heart. An arrow shaft has fletchings and a metal tip so it wont count.
blue_ghost11 11-25-06, 10:10 PM	get hammer and alot of garlic
blue_ghost11 11-25-06, 10:11 PM	how do u get an avatar??
Kojiro James 11-26-06, 02:14 AM	By investing in the Salient Divine Ability like all good little Gods and Goddesses.
darth_borehd 11-28-06, 11:56 AM	To kill a vampire a wooden stake has to be driven through the beasts heart. An arrow shaft has fletchings and a metal tip so it wont count. Yeah but Buffy throws wooden stakes at vampires. :D
Mindolin 11-28-06, 12:10 PM	I would recommend finding a scroll of Sunburst, my character managed to clear a room of about 25 vampires in one shot like that. DM was doing random treasure rolls, and right before the Vampire Room, my character managed to get a lucky roll. Also, for the Decanter of Endless Water, you might be able to use it, but not the way that you are thinking. First off, if you simply make a moat, that does nothing, as the Vampire is unable to cross running water. Howver, as was evidenced in the solo gamebook "Master of Ravenloft", Strahd is able to be killed using a decanter at 'Geyser Mode', with the standard three round duration. Give the decanter and strict instructions to the strongest character, as a Strength check is required to hold the decanter in the direction that you choose. Also, in the Vampire description, it does not say it needs to be natural water, so,by RAW, this trick works.
darth_borehd 11-28-06, 12:38 PM	There's some vampire weaknesses that aren't really covered in the Monster Manual but appear in folklore. Vampires can't cross into consecrated ground. They have a severe allergy to freshly picked roses from a graveyard. They are compulsively neat. Scattering something on the floor can make the vampire stop and pick them up or organize them.
Critical_Failure 11-28-06, 01:26 PM	There's some vampire weaknesses that aren't really covered in the Monster Manual but appear in folklore. Vampires can't cross into consecrated ground. They have a severe allergy to freshly picked roses from a graveyard. They are compulsively neat. Scattering something on the floor can make the vampire stop and pick them up or organize them. additionally (i think it is an obscure romanian legend) they can be killed by biting on a slice of lemon citric acid FTW
Mindolin 11-28-06, 02:33 PM	That's some very nice info, but sadly does not help with how to kill the blood-sucker in D&D, as they are not weak to those things in this game.
Critical_Failure 11-28-06, 03:30 PM	That's some very nice info, but sadly does not help with how to kill the blood-sucker in D&D, as they are not weak to those things in this game. just talk about them to the dm and cite your sources he may make it a bit toughetr but you can go there confident in your characters +3 lemon of vampire slaying
RikuKupo 11-28-06, 05:15 PM	Neat??? I've never heard that one before.... :thinks:
RavenDrake 11-28-06, 11:59 PM	It's more an obsession. Their minds decay and they become preocupied with menial tasks. Throwing a handful of rice, toothpicks, or wooden skewers in the air or at thier feet will force them to pick them up and allign them properly, even if they risk exposure to sunlight to do so. It's part of the oldest of obyri myths, along with the fact that supposedly they could only be killed by damphir(half-vampire/half-human spawn. In some myths the only creature who could kill a powerful vampire was a damphir that they themselves created). Of course, this same mythology and old wives talery told of no less than 30 ways to kill a vampire including beheading it(and/or doing any number of things to the head such as stuffing it's mouth with communion wafers or burning it and burrying the ashes on holy ground), submerging it in holy water, driving iron nails through it's forehead, filling one of it's sock with stones and throwing it into a swift-flowing river, cutting off it's feet and burying them seperate from it's body so it can't stand up in the grave any more and several other equally riduclous and fanciful myths(well, even more ridiculous and fanciful than the normal vampire mythology used for the core vampire).
OzyBurrfoot 11-29-06, 02:34 PM	Why would you twist the rules to save the PCs? It is supposed to be a fair game, without any pulled punches by the DM. What kind of games are you playing? The point of the game is to have fun, and it even states (somewhere, I forget where) that one of the main reasons for having DM Screens is to be able to fudge rolls, particularly to prevent random luck from killing off all the PCs. how do u get an avatar??By investing in the Salient Divine Ability like all good little Gods and Goddesses. :rimshot: Nice..
RikuKupo 11-29-06, 05:02 PM	I thought Dhampir was a made up thing... It's an awesome book! Yea, random :rofl:
darth_borehd 11-29-06, 05:53 PM	I also did some reading and found that burying their coffins upside down or sprinkling poppy seeds in a circle around their coffins will stop vampires from rising that night.
Dunamin 11-30-06, 05:12 AM	What kind of games are you playing? The point of the game is to have fun, and it even states (somewhere, I forget where) that one of the main reasons for having DM Screens is to be able to fudge rolls, particularly to prevent random luck from killing off all the PCs. I play D&D, how about you? In this game there is a very real possibility of PCs dieing. DMs are not supposed to save the PCs, just because a perfectly fair fight happened to go against the PCs by chance or bad tactical play. If you always use deus ex machina to save the PCs, the game will become dull and boring.
OzyBurrfoot 11-30-06, 10:18 AM	But there is a BIG difference in using deus ex machina and "not pulling any punches" fudging a die roll here or there is all in the spirit of the game. You make it sound like as a DM you go out of your way to kill off the PCs. Or that your playing a game thats DM vs PC.
RikuKupo 11-30-06, 03:14 PM	Wait a sec, back to the holy symbol thing. in the SRD it says that a vampire can't touch or make melee attacks against the guy holding the symbol for the rest of the encounter. NOT as long as he holds the symbol. If I don't care if he's within 5 feet of me, can I just flash the symbol once and he's stuck for the rest of the fight?
Tharivol_Nailo 11-30-06, 07:38 PM	Wait a sec, back to the holy symbol thing. in the SRD it says that a vampire can't touch or make melee attacks against the guy holding the symbol for the rest of the encounter. NOT as long as he holds the symbol. If I don't care if he's within 5 feet of me, can I just flash the symbol once and he's stuck for the rest of the fight? It said a strongly presented holy symbol. As a DM i would rule that you had to have it in hand.
Dunamin 12-01-06, 01:09 AM	You make it sound like as a DM you go out of your way to kill off the PCs. Or that your playing a game thats DM vs PC. This is certainly not the case. I objected to the presented scenario of inventing a special rule that allowed an arrow to be placed in the heart of an enemy vampire at a mere -4 penalty... because the party was losing the fight. This is the kind of thing I think is poor DMing - inventing a drastically unbalanced rule to save the PCs, when there were no unjust conditions mentioned for the PCs for the fight, and thus I assume the fight started out as a fair one. Inventing special rules on the fly like that, is going out of your way to save the PCs. And not fudging rolls to save PCs all the time, does not make a DM vs PC game. It makes a fair one. Wait a sec, back to the holy symbol thing. in the SRD it says that a vampire can't touch or make melee attacks against the guy holding the symbol for the rest of the encounter. NOT as long as he holds the symbol. If I don't care if he's within 5 feet of me, can I just flash the symbol once and he's stuck for the rest of the fight? I agree with Tharivol Nailo. I think the wording of the vampire weakness in the MM is poor, but that the designers intended for the character in question to present the holy symbol continously during the fight (if he/she wanted to continously be so protected).
Kerbouchard 12-02-06, 01:31 PM	"Similarly, they recoil from a mirror or a strongly presented holy symbol. These things don't harm the vampire-they merely keep it at bay. A recoiling vampire must stay at least 5 feet away from a creature holding the mirror or holy symbol and cannot touch or make melee attacks against the creature holding the item for the rest of the encounter. Holding a vampire at bay takes a standard action." Sounds to me like you have to use a standard action each round to keep the vamp at bay. So I'd say you'd have to be actually holding the mirror or holy symbol for it to have effect. If you stop doing that...the vamp can attack as normal. Kerbouchard
Sildatorak 12-02-06, 06:10 PM	A recoiling vampire must stay at least 5 feet away from a creature holding the mirror or holy symbol and cannot touch or make melee attacks against the creature holding the item for the rest of the encounter. Holding a vampire at bay takes a standard action." Sounds to me like you have to use a standard action each round to keep the vamp at bay. So I'd say you'd have to be actually holding the mirror or holy symbol for it to have effect. If you stop doing that...the vamp can attack as normal. Kerbouchard Though I agree with you that the intent is definitely that a standard action should be used each round to keep the vamp back, the way it is written only suggests that you have to continue holding the item. Personally, I think that the "holding" part is a load. If that were the case, vampires would be unable to nail anyone except during a surprise round or if they won initiative.