Post/Author/DateTime	Post
angelroble2 02-12-04, 01:20 PM	From SRD: "FLYBY ATTACK [GENERAL] Prerequisite: Fly speed. Benefit: When flying, the creature can take a move action (including a dive) and another standard action at any point during the move. The creature cannot take a second move action during a round when it makes a flyby attack. Normal: Without this feat, the creature takes a standard action either before or after its move." "A creature that flies can make dive attacks. A dive attack works just like a charge, but the diving creature must move a minimum of 30 feet and descend at least 10 feet. It can make only claw or talon attacks, but these deal double damage." The questions are: a) Is diving an attack or a movement? b) If it is a move, could a flybying creature make the "charge" attack and a standar attack? c) If a dive works like a charge, it must be done in straight line, correct? A flying creature with flyby attack diving couldn't ascend afterwards, then? c) Does a flyby attack provoke AoO? My interpretation: a) It is a full round action, that includes movement and an attack. b) It is not a move. c) It couldn't. d) Yes. The feat doesn't prevent it. When the feat speaks about a possible dive as a move action, it indeeds refer to the fact that a dive lets the creature make a movement at 2x speed. So a flyby-ing diving creature could make a 2x speed movement in straight line (descending, and it couldn't ascend after the attack) plus 1 attack in any point of the movement, dealing double damage. So... A flyby-ing diving attack is surely always made from a very long distance, and from a low height point, to be sure you cannot be attacked from land after that attack (because you are at a long distance) Any comments?
sandskimmer 02-12-04, 11:01 PM	a) Is diving an attack or a movement? A move action, as stated by SRD definition you pasted in this post. "When flying, the creature can take a move action (including a dive)" b) If it is a move, could a flybying creature make the "charge" attack and a standar attack? Yes. c) If a dive works like a charge, it must be done in straight line, correct? A flying creature with flyby attack diving couldn't ascend afterwards, then? Correct. c) Does a flyby attack provoke AoO? Yes, if the conditions of an AoO exist. A smart flyer can do a flyby without meeting those conditions. A dragon with reach would be able to do a flyby & not provoke an AoO as it would be outside of the characters threat area. An owl, however would not be so lucky.
angelroble2 02-13-04, 04:34 AM	Originally posted by sandskimmer A move action, as stated by SRD definition you pasted in this post. "When flying, the creature can take a move action (including a dive)" That definition is from flyby attack. The one from dive states that: a) "A creature that flies can make dive attacks" b) "A dive attack works just like a charge" This is why I am confused. If a dive works like a charge, it is a full round action, isn't it? If it is a move action, on the other hand, you don't need the flyby feat to make the dive + a standard attack in the same round. You could also dive + cast a spell, etc.
sandskimmer 02-13-04, 06:42 PM	b) "A dive attack works just like a charge" I think what they mean here, is that you get the +2 to attack, the -2 to AC, and must travel in a straight line for so many feet. Otherwise, yes a charge is a full round action & wouldn't normally allow for any other actions. Flyby basically allows a charge to be used as a move action instead, & grants 1 standard action at any point during the move, rather than before or after - which is the norm.
angelroble2 02-14-04, 11:46 AM	Originally posted by sandskimmer I think what they mean here, is that you get the +2 to attack, the -2 to AC, and must travel in a straight line for so many feet. Otherwise, yes a charge is a full round action & wouldn't normally allow for any other actions. Flyby basically allows a charge to be used as a move action instead, & grants 1 standard action at any point during the move, rather than before or after - which is the norm. If dive is a move action, you needn't flyby to charge and attack, true? You could dive (move action) and attack (standard action). With pounce, you could full attack + standard attack??? :confused:
sandskimmer 02-14-04, 12:53 PM	If dive is a move action, you needn't flyby to charge and attack, true? Dive without flyby attack: Fly towards your enemy, make a standard attack, end turn. Dive with flyby attack: Fly towards your enemy, make a standard attack, coninue to fly past your enemy so they can't counter attack, end turn. With pounce, you could full attack + standard attack??? Pounce allows for a full attack + a special rake attack if the creature has it (which is still really just a full attack with the rake added).
angelroble2 02-14-04, 02:44 PM	Originally posted by sandskimmer Dive without flyby attack: Fly towards your enemy, make a standard attack, end turn. Dive with flyby attack: Fly towards your enemy, make a standard attack, coninue to fly past your enemy so they can't counter attack, end turn. Pounce allows for a full attack + a special rake attack if the creature has it (which is still really just a full attack with the rake added). but... Flyby basically allows a charge to be used as a move action instead, & grants 1 standard action at any point during the move, rather than before or after - which is the norm. and... b) If it is a move, could a flybying creature make the "charge" attack and a standar attack? Yes. I don't know if I am missing something, but these quotes are contradicting... In the second and third what I think you are saying is: Dive with flyby attack: Fly towards your enemy, make a charge attack, make a standard attack, coninue to fly past your enemy so they can't counter attack, end turn. I don't know if it is my English, anyway I assure you I don't really understand which is your position on the matter.