Flying Brain in a Jar [Archive] - Wizards Community

Flying Brain in a Jar [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
rironin
11-20-05, 06:16 PM Sorry if this is in the wrong place, couldn't find a forum specific to Libris Mortis. The "Brain in a Jar" monster in said supplement is listed as having a fly speed. They also have the ability to use telekinesis 3 times per day.

When a Brain moves using its fly speed, does it take its jar with it? Does the whole apparatus fly at 30 ft. speed? If not, can it leave the jar (I would say not for very long if at all - perhaps leaving the jar is like holding its breath)? Or, if it's confined to the jar and wishes to move, is it forced to use telekinesis to levitate the whole thing?

Actually, the more I think about it the more questions arise. Is the statistics block listed for an "exposed" brain? The jar and fluid within would probably afford a brain substantial protection from things like fireballs and the like. It appears that the statistics block is assuming the brain is out in the open - thus the uninhibited flying, and no notes about the protection afforded by the jar.

Seems like there are several options here, and I just wanted to know either if those out there think the monster description reveals what the monster's creators intended, or how you think it would be best to play it. At the moment, I'd probably allow the brain to leave it's preserving fluid for a limited amount of time (although of course the holding your breath rules won't work with an undead - substitute Charisma for Constitution perhaps?) and give the jar some ability to protect the brain from harm. I am planning on using the brain as an overseer of lesser undead in a long forgotten undead temple, lacking any other intelligent undead leadership. Over time, I figure a brain might set up alternate jars to flee to and hide in - or perhaps even tubes of preserving fluid running throughout the complex to give it the ability to travel? Any thoughts are welcome.
savant_warlord13
11-20-05, 06:18 PM this is the correct forum, and the jar goes with it
rironin
11-20-05, 10:17 PM So you're saying the listed flying speed includes the jar itself? Does this mean that the jar is basically part of the creature, and that attacking the jar simply deals damage to the creature as a whole, rather than breaking the jar and exposing the brain within to harm?
Realms of Chaos
11-20-05, 10:49 PM Hmm... the name of the creature is BRAIN IN A JAR and you can't tell if the jar is part of the creature. The jar is filled with preservatives that act in a similar manner to the way that negative energy works for all undead. If anything, the brain telekinetically moves the jar at its whims.
SinisterSeraph
11-20-05, 10:49 PM I just assume that the mental abilities of the creature "enhance" the jar, thus why it is more resistant to damage than some ordinary glass jar. Crunch wise, that would mean yes, the jar is "basically" a part of the creature itself. The damage done in combat wears it's ability to enhance the jar to the breaking point, at which the thing is dead and you hand out Exp points.
Slagger the Chuul
11-21-05, 12:24 AM So you're saying the listed flying speed includes the jar itself? Does this mean that the jar is basically part of the creature, and that attacking the jar simply deals damage to the creature as a whole, rather than breaking the jar and exposing the brain within to harm?

All essentially true, but you can explain it however you like for your own game.
rironin
11-21-05, 12:48 AM Originally Posted by SinisterSeraph:
I just assume that the mental abilities of the creature "enhance" the jar, thus why it is more resistant to damage than some ordinary glass jar. Crunch wise, that would mean yes, the jar is "basically" a part of the creature itself. The damage done in combat wears it's ability to enhance the jar to the breaking point, at which the thing is dead and you hand out Exp points.

This sounds like a good way to avoid the confusion when the PCs start wacking it with swords and whatnot - descriptions of a sheath of electrical energy of some sort will suffice.

Originally Poseted by Realms of Chaos:
Hmm... the name of the creature is BRAIN IN A JAR and you can't tell if the jar is part of the creature. The jar is filled with preservatives that act in a similar manner to the way that negative energy works for all undead. If anything, the brain telekinetically moves the jar at its whims.

Admittedly, yes, the creature is called a "brain in a jar". But the jar seems like something that could affect the statistics block, depending on the interpretation. Does it even need to be in a flimsy glass jar in order to move, sense its surroundings, and attack its enemies? It is a brain after all, and has no sense organs, and presumably senses things (it has blindsight) through psionic, mental power alone. So it doesn't seem like it would need to "see" through the glass. What if it were encased in an adamantine jar? That would certainly make it harder to harm. If you want to claim that it needs glass or some other transparent container, fine, but then you've got varying hardnesses and thicknesses for transparent materials. My point is, the jar itself sounds a lot more like equipment - something that could vary from creature to creature or even be changed over time. A lack of any impact that the jar would have on the creature's statistics seemed to reinforce this thought. However, SinisterSeraph's idea about psionic power affording the jar it's own protection is a good way to take the statistics as they are, describe the creature in combat (the glass could crack as blows were struck and the psionic protection weakened, and then shatter when the creature died), and deal with the problems of attacking the jar before/instead of the brain. I will most likely use that method.

And I agree with you, if the brain is going to move the jar at all, it's certainly going to do it telekinetically - ramming the jar from the inside probably wouldn't get much done, and would be very painful to an exposed brain. However, my question had to do with whether or not it had the power to telekinetically move its jar at will, as part of standard movement, or whether it had to employ the telekinesis ability it is granted 3 times per day. This would have a significant effect on its available powers and movement options, and is not explicitly stated in the statistics. That's why I asked. Thanks to all who responded.
SinisterSeraph
11-21-05, 08:46 AM Dude, you should make it a brain in an adamantine jar, then put the adamantine jar in the chest of a shield gaurdian. It would be a full conversion borg, sword and sorcerey style.

I would say that the movement of the jar is a telekinetic thing at will, but that it cannot use that telekinesis against others except for the three a day thing. Moving itself is a piece of cake, but moving others is pretty taxing. And glad I could help. :)
rironin
11-21-05, 11:48 AM Ha! Brilliant. But it wouldn't be a borg - it would be Krang (http://interactive.usc.edu/members/will/images/krangpoint.jpg) from Ninja Turtles!!

I don't think I'll go quite that far, although I love the idea. But I might have tubes of the fluid running through the complex, allowing the brain to move to and fro without needing the jar, and without being as vulnerable. The jar, which I agree now should move with the brain when it wants it to, could be one of many such jars that are attached to the ends of the transportation tubes that run through the temple. The brain could land the jar on a pedestal of some sort, telekinetically open the bottom of its jar, and slip down through a small tube to another room, etc etc. Could be a fun way to keep the brain alive while it commands the lesser undead room to room.
SinisterSeraph
11-21-05, 12:39 PM A system like the vacum tubes at the bank. *sluurrp*

I like that the evil genius' plan of escape involves being flushed.
CryoSilver
11-22-05, 09:04 PM I would just have the jar walled up somewhere, in a room with no door and a contingent teleport for if it's found. It can spy with arcane eyes and stuff.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
rironin 11-20-05, 06:16 PM	Sorry if this is in the wrong place, couldn't find a forum specific to Libris Mortis. The "Brain in a Jar" monster in said supplement is listed as having a fly speed. They also have the ability to use telekinesis 3 times per day. When a Brain moves using its fly speed, does it take its jar with it? Does the whole apparatus fly at 30 ft. speed? If not, can it leave the jar (I would say not for very long if at all - perhaps leaving the jar is like holding its breath)? Or, if it's confined to the jar and wishes to move, is it forced to use telekinesis to levitate the whole thing? Actually, the more I think about it the more questions arise. Is the statistics block listed for an "exposed" brain? The jar and fluid within would probably afford a brain substantial protection from things like fireballs and the like. It appears that the statistics block is assuming the brain is out in the open - thus the uninhibited flying, and no notes about the protection afforded by the jar. Seems like there are several options here, and I just wanted to know either if those out there think the monster description reveals what the monster's creators intended, or how you think it would be best to play it. At the moment, I'd probably allow the brain to leave it's preserving fluid for a limited amount of time (although of course the holding your breath rules won't work with an undead - substitute Charisma for Constitution perhaps?) and give the jar some ability to protect the brain from harm. I am planning on using the brain as an overseer of lesser undead in a long forgotten undead temple, lacking any other intelligent undead leadership. Over time, I figure a brain might set up alternate jars to flee to and hide in - or perhaps even tubes of preserving fluid running throughout the complex to give it the ability to travel? Any thoughts are welcome.
savant_warlord13 11-20-05, 06:18 PM	this is the correct forum, and the jar goes with it
rironin 11-20-05, 10:17 PM	So you're saying the listed flying speed includes the jar itself? Does this mean that the jar is basically part of the creature, and that attacking the jar simply deals damage to the creature as a whole, rather than breaking the jar and exposing the brain within to harm?
Realms of Chaos 11-20-05, 10:49 PM	Hmm... the name of the creature is BRAIN IN A JAR and you can't tell if the jar is part of the creature. The jar is filled with preservatives that act in a similar manner to the way that negative energy works for all undead. If anything, the brain telekinetically moves the jar at its whims.
SinisterSeraph 11-20-05, 10:49 PM	I just assume that the mental abilities of the creature "enhance" the jar, thus why it is more resistant to damage than some ordinary glass jar. Crunch wise, that would mean yes, the jar is "basically" a part of the creature itself. The damage done in combat wears it's ability to enhance the jar to the breaking point, at which the thing is dead and you hand out Exp points.
Slagger the Chuul 11-21-05, 12:24 AM	So you're saying the listed flying speed includes the jar itself? Does this mean that the jar is basically part of the creature, and that attacking the jar simply deals damage to the creature as a whole, rather than breaking the jar and exposing the brain within to harm? All essentially true, but you can explain it however you like for your own game.
rironin 11-21-05, 12:48 AM	Originally Posted by SinisterSeraph: I just assume that the mental abilities of the creature "enhance" the jar, thus why it is more resistant to damage than some ordinary glass jar. Crunch wise, that would mean yes, the jar is "basically" a part of the creature itself. The damage done in combat wears it's ability to enhance the jar to the breaking point, at which the thing is dead and you hand out Exp points. This sounds like a good way to avoid the confusion when the PCs start wacking it with swords and whatnot - descriptions of a sheath of electrical energy of some sort will suffice. Originally Poseted by Realms of Chaos: Hmm... the name of the creature is BRAIN IN A JAR and you can't tell if the jar is part of the creature. The jar is filled with preservatives that act in a similar manner to the way that negative energy works for all undead. If anything, the brain telekinetically moves the jar at its whims. Admittedly, yes, the creature is called a "brain in a jar". But the jar seems like something that could affect the statistics block, depending on the interpretation. Does it even need to be in a flimsy glass jar in order to move, sense its surroundings, and attack its enemies? It is a brain after all, and has no sense organs, and presumably senses things (it has blindsight) through psionic, mental power alone. So it doesn't seem like it would need to "see" through the glass. What if it were encased in an adamantine jar? That would certainly make it harder to harm. If you want to claim that it needs glass or some other transparent container, fine, but then you've got varying hardnesses and thicknesses for transparent materials. My point is, the jar itself sounds a lot more like equipment - something that could vary from creature to creature or even be changed over time. A lack of any impact that the jar would have on the creature's statistics seemed to reinforce this thought. However, SinisterSeraph's idea about psionic power affording the jar it's own protection is a good way to take the statistics as they are, describe the creature in combat (the glass could crack as blows were struck and the psionic protection weakened, and then shatter when the creature died), and deal with the problems of attacking the jar before/instead of the brain. I will most likely use that method. And I agree with you, if the brain is going to move the jar at all, it's certainly going to do it telekinetically - ramming the jar from the inside probably wouldn't get much done, and would be very painful to an exposed brain. However, my question had to do with whether or not it had the power to telekinetically move its jar at will, as part of standard movement, or whether it had to employ the telekinesis ability it is granted 3 times per day. This would have a significant effect on its available powers and movement options, and is not explicitly stated in the statistics. That's why I asked. Thanks to all who responded.
SinisterSeraph 11-21-05, 08:46 AM	Dude, you should make it a brain in an adamantine jar, then put the adamantine jar in the chest of a shield gaurdian. It would be a full conversion borg, sword and sorcerey style. I would say that the movement of the jar is a telekinetic thing at will, but that it cannot use that telekinesis against others except for the three a day thing. Moving itself is a piece of cake, but moving others is pretty taxing. And glad I could help. :)
rironin 11-21-05, 11:48 AM	Ha! Brilliant. But it wouldn't be a borg - it would be Krang (http://interactive.usc.edu/members/will/images/krangpoint.jpg) from Ninja Turtles!! I don't think I'll go quite that far, although I love the idea. But I might have tubes of the fluid running through the complex, allowing the brain to move to and fro without needing the jar, and without being as vulnerable. The jar, which I agree now should move with the brain when it wants it to, could be one of many such jars that are attached to the ends of the transportation tubes that run through the temple. The brain could land the jar on a pedestal of some sort, telekinetically open the bottom of its jar, and slip down through a small tube to another room, etc etc. Could be a fun way to keep the brain alive while it commands the lesser undead room to room.
SinisterSeraph 11-21-05, 12:39 PM	A system like the vacum tubes at the bank. sluurrp I like that the evil genius' plan of escape involves being flushed.
CryoSilver 11-22-05, 09:04 PM	I would just have the jar walled up somewhere, in a room with no door and a contingent teleport for if it's found. It can spy with arcane eyes and stuff.