Flying Giants? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Flying Giants? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Evandar_TAybara
12-09-06, 04:07 PM Air Subtype: This subtype usually is used for elementals and outsiders with a connection to the Elemental Plane Air. Air creatures always have fly speeds and usually have perfect maneuverability.CLOUD GIANT
Huge Giant (Air)
Hit Dice: 17d8+102 (178 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
...etc...Ok, so is this the exception to the rule or should Cloud Giants have a fly speed?

Evan.
CryoSilver
12-09-06, 04:15 PM Must be an exception.
Witch
12-09-06, 04:16 PM I'd remove the subtype, most likely.
Evandar_TAybara
12-09-06, 04:21 PM I'd remove the subtype, most likely.
Yeah I think I agree as it's a bit of an odd thing for them to have considering they are neither from the elemental plane of air nor able to fly....

Evan.
OamuTheMonk
12-11-06, 06:36 PM So, on a related note, how would it affect a Cloud Giant's CR to give it a fly speed, say Fly 100' (Perfect). It seems like a neat way to make them less...bland.
mvincent
12-12-06, 01:50 PM is this the exception to the ruleYup. It is similar to how Stone giants have the [Earth] subtype:
"Earth Subtype
This subtype usually is used for elementals and outsiders with a connection to the Elemental Plane of Earth. Earth creatures usually have burrow speeds, and most earth creatures can burrow through solid rock."
The [Air] subtype probably should've been written the same way.

So, on a related note, how would it affect a Cloud Giant's CR to give it a fly speed, say Fly 100' (Perfect). That seems like a significant change to their concept. It'd probably make more sense just to give some of them wondrous items of flying.
JiCi
12-12-06, 08:38 PM That seems like a significant change to their concept. It'd probably make more sense just to give some of them wondrous items of flying.Not really, if you give them a supernatural fly speed of 100 ft (good or perfect), as well as a +1 to CR and +2 to LA.
mvincent
12-12-06, 08:48 PM Not really, if you give them a supernatural fly speed of 100 ft (good or perfect), as well as a +1 to CR and +2 to LA.I think you misunderstand: I said it seemed like a significant change to their concept.

Flying cloud giants would have an entirely different society, tactics, habits etc. I'm not talking about simply combat, I'm talking about their (again) concept; i.e. their very nature.

(and Jack could certainly never kill a flying one by chopping down a beanstalk : )
OamuTheMonk
12-12-06, 08:58 PM Well, I have no problem altering their concept for use in my current campaign. I always considered Cloud giants to be the "weak sister" of the core Giants, and was never too clear on how their cloud castle-based society functioned, anyway. Letting them slip the surly bonds of earth gives them some actual cred. I'm liking the idea more and more, especially since I have several GoL Cloud Giant minis that were unlikely to see use, otherwise.

Yeah, I reckon Jack would probably have trouble with a regular Cloud Giant anyway--falling damage caps at what, 20d6?
Korone
12-12-06, 09:08 PM Huge flying giant with perfect maneuvrability... Ok.

That'd be scary, really.

But so freaking awesome.. if I ever run a cloud giant in a campaign, it'll have a fly speed for sure.
Although their three times per day 'levitate' just got completely useless.
OamuTheMonk
12-12-06, 09:21 PM Yeah, the levitate gets dropped, entirely.
runestar
12-12-06, 09:42 PM You could always tack on the half-dragon template...:D
mvincent
12-12-06, 09:46 PM was never too clear on how their cloud castle-based society functioned, anywayThe "Against the Giants" module (rerelease of G1 through 3) had an extra final chapter that includes a cloud giant island. This was what I based my image of cloud-giants on.

I just had a hard time imagining cloud giants flying around "superman" style, was all (although the miniature from GoL did have a nice cape)

Yeah, I reckon Jack would probably have trouble with a regular Cloud Giant anyway--falling damage caps at what, 20d6?The beanstalk probably landed on the giant afterwards... I believe the extra damage from weight isn't capped.
DungeonMaster
12-13-06, 01:16 AM I always considered Cloud giants to be the "weak sister" of the core Giants, and was never too clear on how their cloud castle-based society functioned, anyway.

Cloud giants rock . They're easily the best giant in the game. Their fog cloud and obscuring mists at CL 15 + scent makes them extremely tough opponents.
Though I have to admit the 3.5 rules for overrun and bull rush make them significantly weaker.
Critical_Failure
12-13-06, 12:22 PM Cloud giants rock .

pun intended?
420
12-13-06, 01:04 PM I think everyone (except mvincent of course) is overlooking one major detail about cloud giants. Some of them live on enchanted cloud islands. How do they get home without the ability to fly?

According to the Levitate spell it only raises the caster (or the casters target) by 20 feet per round. That would take all day for a cloud giant to reach his cloud island home. Plus it doesn't allow horizontal movement so there better not be any wind pushing that cloud anywhere.

-420
mvincent
12-13-06, 01:24 PM How do they get home without the ability to fly?Resource material describes them as levitating up to their islands, which shouldn't be more than 2000' or 3000' in the air (or possibly much closer in mountainous regions). Also, parts of their cloud-islands are detachable, and groups of them can be ferried to the ground via a smaller cloud.

That would take all day for a cloud giant to reach his cloud island home.This would take less than 15 minutes... a fairly short commute to work really. They seldom (if ever) make such trips to the ground more than once a day.

Note that a fly spell would only allow you to climb 20' per move action anyway. Sure you could take double moves, but long distance movement doesn't assume that. Levitation comparatively seems about as speedy, and possibly more relaxing to use.

it doesn't allow horizontal movement so there better not be any wind pushing that cloud anywhereThe wind is unlikely to push a 5,000 lb. giant very far (or if it did, the island would probably be pushed as well). They possibly become good at judging such things at a young age (or at least aim for the bottom-center of their island and climb around the outer edge). Mind you, this is fantasy.
runestar
12-13-06, 11:27 PM They could train mounts, like advanced giant eagles and the like...:P
mvincent
12-13-06, 11:42 PM They could train mounts, like advanced giant eagles and the like...:PGiant eagles typically top out at huge sized (and so wouldn't work as mounts), but rocs would perfect. I've only seen one example of a cloud giant on a roc, but you'd think it'd be more common for them.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Evandar_TAybara 12-09-06, 04:07 PM	Air Subtype: This subtype usually is used for elementals and outsiders with a connection to the Elemental Plane Air. Air creatures always have fly speeds and usually have perfect maneuverability.CLOUD GIANT Huge Giant (Air) Hit Dice: 17d8+102 (178 hp) Initiative: +1 Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares) ...etc...Ok, so is this the exception to the rule or should Cloud Giants have a fly speed? Evan.
CryoSilver 12-09-06, 04:15 PM	Must be an exception.
Witch 12-09-06, 04:16 PM	I'd remove the subtype, most likely.
Evandar_TAybara 12-09-06, 04:21 PM	I'd remove the subtype, most likely. Yeah I think I agree as it's a bit of an odd thing for them to have considering they are neither from the elemental plane of air nor able to fly.... Evan.
OamuTheMonk 12-11-06, 06:36 PM	So, on a related note, how would it affect a Cloud Giant's CR to give it a fly speed, say Fly 100' (Perfect). It seems like a neat way to make them less...bland.
mvincent 12-12-06, 01:50 PM	is this the exception to the ruleYup. It is similar to how Stone giants have the [Earth] subtype: "Earth Subtype This subtype usually is used for elementals and outsiders with a connection to the Elemental Plane of Earth. Earth creatures usually have burrow speeds, and most earth creatures can burrow through solid rock." The [Air] subtype probably should've been written the same way. So, on a related note, how would it affect a Cloud Giant's CR to give it a fly speed, say Fly 100' (Perfect). That seems like a significant change to their concept. It'd probably make more sense just to give some of them wondrous items of flying.
JiCi 12-12-06, 08:38 PM	That seems like a significant change to their concept. It'd probably make more sense just to give some of them wondrous items of flying.Not really, if you give them a supernatural fly speed of 100 ft (good or perfect), as well as a +1 to CR and +2 to LA.
mvincent 12-12-06, 08:48 PM	Not really, if you give them a supernatural fly speed of 100 ft (good or perfect), as well as a +1 to CR and +2 to LA.I think you misunderstand: I said it seemed like a significant change to their concept. Flying cloud giants would have an entirely different society, tactics, habits etc. I'm not talking about simply combat, I'm talking about their (again) concept; i.e. their very nature. (and Jack could certainly never kill a flying one by chopping down a beanstalk : )
OamuTheMonk 12-12-06, 08:58 PM	Well, I have no problem altering their concept for use in my current campaign. I always considered Cloud giants to be the "weak sister" of the core Giants, and was never too clear on how their cloud castle-based society functioned, anyway. Letting them slip the surly bonds of earth gives them some actual cred. I'm liking the idea more and more, especially since I have several GoL Cloud Giant minis that were unlikely to see use, otherwise. Yeah, I reckon Jack would probably have trouble with a regular Cloud Giant anyway--falling damage caps at what, 20d6?
Korone 12-12-06, 09:08 PM	Huge flying giant with perfect maneuvrability... Ok. That'd be scary, really. But so freaking awesome.. if I ever run a cloud giant in a campaign, it'll have a fly speed for sure. Although their three times per day 'levitate' just got completely useless.
OamuTheMonk 12-12-06, 09:21 PM	Yeah, the levitate gets dropped, entirely.
runestar 12-12-06, 09:42 PM	You could always tack on the half-dragon template...:D
mvincent 12-12-06, 09:46 PM	was never too clear on how their cloud castle-based society functioned, anywayThe "Against the Giants" module (rerelease of G1 through 3) had an extra final chapter that includes a cloud giant island. This was what I based my image of cloud-giants on. I just had a hard time imagining cloud giants flying around "superman" style, was all (although the miniature from GoL did have a nice cape) Yeah, I reckon Jack would probably have trouble with a regular Cloud Giant anyway--falling damage caps at what, 20d6?The beanstalk probably landed on the giant afterwards... I believe the extra damage from weight isn't capped.
DungeonMaster 12-13-06, 01:16 AM	I always considered Cloud giants to be the "weak sister" of the core Giants, and was never too clear on how their cloud castle-based society functioned, anyway. Cloud giants rock . They're easily the best giant in the game. Their fog cloud and obscuring mists at CL 15 + scent makes them extremely tough opponents. Though I have to admit the 3.5 rules for overrun and bull rush make them significantly weaker.
Critical_Failure 12-13-06, 12:22 PM	Cloud giants rock . pun intended?
420 12-13-06, 01:04 PM	I think everyone (except mvincent of course) is overlooking one major detail about cloud giants. Some of them live on enchanted cloud islands. How do they get home without the ability to fly? According to the Levitate spell it only raises the caster (or the casters target) by 20 feet per round. That would take all day for a cloud giant to reach his cloud island home. Plus it doesn't allow horizontal movement so there better not be any wind pushing that cloud anywhere. -420
mvincent 12-13-06, 01:24 PM	How do they get home without the ability to fly?Resource material describes them as levitating up to their islands, which shouldn't be more than 2000' or 3000' in the air (or possibly much closer in mountainous regions). Also, parts of their cloud-islands are detachable, and groups of them can be ferried to the ground via a smaller cloud. That would take all day for a cloud giant to reach his cloud island home.This would take less than 15 minutes... a fairly short commute to work really. They seldom (if ever) make such trips to the ground more than once a day. Note that a fly spell would only allow you to climb 20' per move action anyway. Sure you could take double moves, but long distance movement doesn't assume that. Levitation comparatively seems about as speedy, and possibly more relaxing to use. it doesn't allow horizontal movement so there better not be any wind pushing that cloud anywhereThe wind is unlikely to push a 5,000 lb. giant very far (or if it did, the island would probably be pushed as well). They possibly become good at judging such things at a young age (or at least aim for the bottom-center of their island and climb around the outer edge). Mind you, this is fantasy.
runestar 12-13-06, 11:27 PM	They could train mounts, like advanced giant eagles and the like...:P
mvincent 12-13-06, 11:42 PM	They could train mounts, like advanced giant eagles and the like...:PGiant eagles typically top out at huge sized (and so wouldn't work as mounts), but rocs would perfect. I've only seen one example of a cloud giant on a roc, but you'd think it'd be more common for them.