Force Golem [Archive] - Wizards Community

Force Golem [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Germytech
11-17-05, 12:53 AM FORCE GOLEM

Large Construct
Hit Dice: 20d10+30 (140 hp)
Initiative: -1
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class: 32 (-1 size, -1 Dex, +8 deflection, +16 natural) touch 16, flat-footed 32
Base Attack/Grapple: +15/+32
Attack: Slam +28 melee (2d10+13)
Full Attack: 2 slams +28 melee (2d10+13)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Breath weapon, spell-like abilities
Special Qualities: Blur, construct traits, damage reduction 15/adamantine, darkvision 60 ft., deflecting force, immunity to force, immunity to magic, low-light vision
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +5, Will +6
Abilities: Str 37, Dex 9, Con --, Int --, Wis 11, Cha 1
Skills: --
Feats: --
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating: 20
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 21-30 HD (Large); 31-60 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: --

Although shaped much like an iron golem, this automaton is translucent like glass. But with each heavy step it becomes obvious that this golem is composed of something not nearly as fragile.

This golem has a humanoid body composed of translucent force.

Combat

Force golems follow the instructions of their creator, often wading into melee. A favorite tactic is to separate party members with walls of force or enclose a single fighter in a resilient sphere, then walk through the force effect to engage the separated opponents that now have no way out.

Breath Weapon (Su): A 30 ft. cone of force (damage 8d4), Reflex DC 20 for half. The save DC is Will-based.

Deflecting Force (Su): A force golem is protected by a shield of force that provides a +8 deflection bonus to its AC.

Blur (Su): The force surrounding the force golem distorts the light around it so that it is hard to discern the force golem's exact location. This functions as a continuous blur spell, giving the force golem concealment (20% miss chance).

Immunity to Force (Ex): The force golem can move freely through barriers of force, such as a wall of force and cannot be affected by spells with the force descriptor that attempt to move the force golem, such as grasping hand.

Immunity to Magic (Ex): A force golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature, as noted below.

A disintegrate spell slows the golem (as the slow spell) for 2d6 rounds.

Any magical attack against a force golem that deals force damage heals 1 point of damage for every 3 points of damage it would otherwise deal. If the amount of healing would cause the golem to exceed its full normal hit points, it gains any excess as temporary hit points. For example, a clay golem hit by two magic missiles heals 2 damage if the attack would have dealt 7 points of damage. A force golem gets no saving throw against magical attacks that deal force damage.

Spell-like Abilities: 3/day--resilient sphere (DC 14), wall of force, magic missile. Caster Level 20th.

Construction

A force golem's body must be constructed from several castings of modified wall of force spells. The cost to research these spells for this sole purpose is 3,000 gp. Creating the body requires a DC 20 Knowledge (arcana) check.

CL 20th; Craft Construct, blur, geas/quest, magic missile, resilient sphere, wall of force, wish, and mage armor or shield. Price 210,000 gp; Cost 108,000 gp + 9,320 XP.
EvilPettingZoo
11-17-05, 03:06 AM I like this. It's interesting to see a golem made of a magical substance.
Darth_Azalin
11-17-05, 03:39 AM for one wouldnt it be 20+ in CR since for one the HD it has

you gave it DR to magic but its immune to magic?

darkvision and low-light vision (basically all the golems have this but without intelligence why does it matter?)

are you going to treat the breath weapon like a dragons? (only able to be done in so many rounds?)

With this said it looks killer...

I was actually picturing an "Electro" verison myself...

with that said a sonic golem type would be hard to face as well...
ArochanoX
11-17-05, 05:06 AM That breath weapon is so lame. It's powerless. Make it 60ft cone and 10d6 or 15d4.

Then that DR should be, at this high CR, DR 10/adamantium and epic. Maybe DR 15/adamanitum and epic is good too.

The abilities of this creature are lame. Give it better wisdom (good golems are observant. Especially if bodyguards) and dexterity (magic and force have no mass and thus have no antikinetic forces affecting it.).

This construct also has very lame amount of hit points. Give it 5-10 extra hit dice. This golem cannot hit anything with that lame attack bonus.

Large Construct
Hit Dice: 30d10+30 (195 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class: 35 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +8 deflection, +16 natural) touch 19, flat-footed 33
Base Attack/Grapple: +22/+40
Attack: Slam +37 melee (2d10+14)
Full Attack: 2 slams +37 melee (2d10+14)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Breath weapon, spell-like abilities
Special Qualities: Blur, construct traits, damage reduction 15/adamantine and epic, darkvision 60 ft., deflecting force, immunity to force, immunity to magic, low-light vision
Saves: Fort +10, Ref +12, Will +11
Abilities: Str 38, Dex 15, Con --, Int --, Wis 13, Cha 1
Skills: --
Feats: --
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating: 21
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 30-40 HD (Large); 41-80 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: --

Breath Weapon (Su): A 60 ft. cone of force (damage 15d4), Reflex DC 26 for half. The save DC is Will-based. Force golem must wait for 1d4+1 rounds before using this breath weapon again.
Germytech
11-17-05, 10:29 AM Thank you very much for your comments.

Darth_Azalin -

Thank you, too, for your constructive criticism. You brought up many very good points...

for one wouldnt it be 20+ in CR since for one the HD it has

Right you are, especially considering its abilities, although I was unsure exactly what CR it might be. CR22?

you gave it DR to magic but its immune to magic?

Woops! Corrected.

darkvision and low-light vision (basically all the golems have this but without intelligence why does it matter?)

Well, yeah, all golems do have it. It means that they can still see enemies in darkness and shadowy illumination. They don't have to think abstractly about it. That's my thoughts, anyway.

are you going to treat the breath weapon like a dragons? (only able to be done in so many rounds?)

I didn't for a couple reasons. One, it is definitely weaker than a dragon's breath weapon. Two, most golem breath weapons do not have that limitation. However, do you suggest that I do put in that limitation?

With this said it looks killer...

I was actually picturing an "Electro" verison myself...

with that said a sonic golem type would be hard to face as well...

Thanks again. Once this gets hammered out, I would like to put together a whoole slew of other magic-based golems. If you can have a clay/stone/iron golem, why not a fire golem, or electricity golem? Lots of fun...

ArochanoX - On the other side, your comments were entirely NON-constructive.

That breath weapon is so lame.

It does the same number of dice of damage as a dragon of its same CR. I gave it d4 instead of d6 because its force damage.

DR should not have a magic or epic component, as Darth_Azalin pointed out politley.

The abilities of this creature are lame.

Based off of the iron golem, it has the same Wisdom and Dexterity. Force was never claimed to be "massless" of "antikinetic," and so I deem that this force golem indeed has both.

This construct also has very lame amount of hit points.

Again, its based off the iron golem. It has enough hit points for a constuct of this type.
Darth_Azalin
11-17-05, 11:46 AM well I look at it this way... for one its 20d8 would make it an easy 20 then you went to d10 would then make it cr21 then you added 3 full hd as extra so again at least another +1.. your looking at maybe Cr23-25 with it able to breath every round.. but then again its breath weapon isnt too almighty. But what would you do if you wanted to breathe and do 1 slam?

Too fight this you need to stay right next too it because only the breath weapon would hurt you...

Another special defense you could give this would be something like (thorns) you take half of what you deal in melee to it.. again that would make it very nasty...

On the breath weapon 8d4 isnt really hurtful.. meaning for one this is an epic monster and most pcs will make there save easy... So having it breath every round is alright (but how does it recharge itself -- is the force golem a walking battery? the more force it uses it takes away in "hps")

Need to have it do a little more attacks.. I mean a dragon can do Claw/Claw/Bite and if theres room wing buffet all in the same round... and I dont if it breathes thats all it does...

Future Golems

Fire? 1. to much like a fire elemental.. and how will it not "burn out" dont say it will have something like everburning torch like spell cast on it (all though that would solve the problem but remember you dont get any heat form the torch)

Electro like that one..

Also remember the ones in 2.0 ones that were just so cool

Spiderstone #2 fav of mine
Hammer #3 fav of mine
Brain
Magic
Brass Minotaur #1 fav
Gemstones (Ruby, Emerald, and Diamond)

For fire there was the burning man golem
Germytech
11-17-05, 05:07 PM For starters, the MM iron golem has 18d10 HD, and is CR 18.

The force golem is identical except for the additional special abilities, 2 HD, and Strength +4. Everything else is the same.

The breath weapon has a low DC and relatively weak damage for a CR20 monster.

I think, when compared to a titan or CR20 old dragon, I think the force golem, if anything, seems relatively weak. Its major strength is actually force immunity: walking through a wall of force. Yet, at the same time, being able to corner people with it.

But when it compares to number and type of attacks, special abilities, and overall stats, I think it holds its own at CR20.

But more thoughts, please. Specifically, why should it be bumped to a higher CR, and how much higher?
ArochanoX
11-18-05, 02:09 PM ArochanoX - On the other side, your comments were entirely NON-constructive.

Well, thanks!

May I criticize something about this monster?

Well, first, as a CR 20 monster, this should do some damage to party of level 20. It has 2 attack modes: breath weapon and slams.

Breath weapon:
+works every round
+does force damage that cannot be resisted
-does damage very poorly
-has extremely low DC
-very small area

Slams:
-only average attack bonus
-very poor damage

To sum that up:
every rogue-like character is immune to breath weapon, since it allows reflex save for half. The DC is so low, that even a wizard can avoid the breath easily (+6base +2dex +3cloak = +11ref). So it does only roughly 75% damage 6d4=15. Very low. Even it's every round. Not to mention its small area (30ft cone) that everyone can stay away.
Slams have quite poor attack bonus (+28). Every buffed fighter has AC around 40 at that level. And they do very small amount of damage 2d10+13=24. 24 damage per hit has very low impact on fighter's hp.

And the golem is very slow (20ft) so everyone can run away from it and shoot it from a distance. Very good tactic to kill this is to throw adamantine objects at it. Not to mention flying wizard using telekinesis or dimension door to drop heavy, adamantine objects at it.

To fix these, I suggest giving it more HD because it gives more attack bonus, breath weapon save DC and HP.

Give it better speed, so it can catch up fleeing foes.

Give it DR/epic. Even though it's immune to magic, epic magic is so immensely powerful that it can cut through powerful magical defences. If the idea still disgusts you, give it also DR 10/- to symbolize its toughness. Almost every party has adamantine backup weapons for creatures like iron golem.
savant_warlord13
11-18-05, 02:58 PM why does it have any natural armor? it should all be deflection
Germytech
11-20-05, 03:30 AM Again, I would like to repeat, that this creature is based entirely on the iron golem.

Iron Golem + 2 HD + extra abilities = Force Golem

Iron Golem CR=18.

Therefore, according to the SRD, the force golem is not weaker in terms of HD, saves, attack, abilities, speed, breath weapon DC, or what have you. Unless you disagree with the CR of the iron golem.

savant_warlord13 - Although I did convert some of the iron golem's natural armor into a deflection bonus, I decided to retain much of it because the force golem is still solid. It can be hit, and can be damaged. Since it is still, somewhat, material and tangible, I thought a natural armor bonus (composed of "force" instead of "iron") still fit the concept. Force is not noly the material the golem is made from (natural armor), but also twists space in the vicinity (the deflection). My thoughts, anyway.
ArochanoX
11-20-05, 01:04 PM Iron golem is good for level 12 party. That's my opinion. They're tough, but they're just automatons with no ranged weaponry.
Germytech
11-20-05, 08:29 PM Iron golem is good for level 12 party. That's my opinion. They're tough, but they're just automatons with no ranged weaponry.

All right, you don't go by the straight Challenge Rating system, then. That's fine.

Since you consider a CR 18 iron golem to be only about CR 12, then simply take my CR 20 force golem and arbitrarily knock off 6.

So, if you agree that the force golem is "good for a level 14 party" then I can confidently say that it should, in fact, be CR 20.

Glad we cleared that up!
Khalarak Ironclaw
11-20-05, 09:24 PM I like it, but I'd like to point out that the reason adamantine overcomes DR on golems (IMO) is because it ignores hardness. The DR represents the natural toughness of the material, and so adamantine can carve through a stone golem as easily as it carves through a stone wall. However, as far as I know force effects are not harmed by adamantine in the least. So, again IMO, the DR should be 10/- or 15/-, which would make it much tougher against a 20th level party.

Oh, and btw, the Iron Golem in the MM is only CR 13, and so is the one in the SRD (http://d20srd.org/srd/monsters/golem.htm#ironGolem) .

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Germytech 11-17-05, 12:53 AM	FORCE GOLEM Large Construct Hit Dice: 20d10+30 (140 hp) Initiative: -1 Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares) Armor Class: 32 (-1 size, -1 Dex, +8 deflection, +16 natural) touch 16, flat-footed 32 Base Attack/Grapple: +15/+32 Attack: Slam +28 melee (2d10+13) Full Attack: 2 slams +28 melee (2d10+13) Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft. Special Attacks: Breath weapon, spell-like abilities Special Qualities: Blur, construct traits, damage reduction 15/adamantine, darkvision 60 ft., deflecting force, immunity to force, immunity to magic, low-light vision Saves: Fort +6, Ref +5, Will +6 Abilities: Str 37, Dex 9, Con --, Int --, Wis 11, Cha 1 Skills: -- Feats: -- Environment: Any Organization: Solitary or pair Challenge Rating: 20 Treasure: None Alignment: Always neutral Advancement: 21-30 HD (Large); 31-60 HD (Huge) Level Adjustment: -- Although shaped much like an iron golem, this automaton is translucent like glass. But with each heavy step it becomes obvious that this golem is composed of something not nearly as fragile. This golem has a humanoid body composed of translucent force. Combat Force golems follow the instructions of their creator, often wading into melee. A favorite tactic is to separate party members with walls of force or enclose a single fighter in a resilient sphere, then walk through the force effect to engage the separated opponents that now have no way out. Breath Weapon (Su): A 30 ft. cone of force (damage 8d4), Reflex DC 20 for half. The save DC is Will-based. Deflecting Force (Su): A force golem is protected by a shield of force that provides a +8 deflection bonus to its AC. Blur (Su): The force surrounding the force golem distorts the light around it so that it is hard to discern the force golem's exact location. This functions as a continuous blur spell, giving the force golem concealment (20% miss chance). Immunity to Force (Ex): The force golem can move freely through barriers of force, such as a wall of force and cannot be affected by spells with the force descriptor that attempt to move the force golem, such as grasping hand. Immunity to Magic (Ex): A force golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature, as noted below. A disintegrate spell slows the golem (as the slow spell) for 2d6 rounds. Any magical attack against a force golem that deals force damage heals 1 point of damage for every 3 points of damage it would otherwise deal. If the amount of healing would cause the golem to exceed its full normal hit points, it gains any excess as temporary hit points. For example, a clay golem hit by two magic missiles heals 2 damage if the attack would have dealt 7 points of damage. A force golem gets no saving throw against magical attacks that deal force damage. Spell-like Abilities: 3/day--resilient sphere (DC 14), wall of force, magic missile. Caster Level 20th. Construction A force golem's body must be constructed from several castings of modified wall of force spells. The cost to research these spells for this sole purpose is 3,000 gp. Creating the body requires a DC 20 Knowledge (arcana) check. CL 20th; Craft Construct, blur, geas/quest, magic missile, resilient sphere, wall of force, wish, and mage armor or shield. Price 210,000 gp; Cost 108,000 gp + 9,320 XP.
EvilPettingZoo 11-17-05, 03:06 AM	I like this. It's interesting to see a golem made of a magical substance.
Darth_Azalin 11-17-05, 03:39 AM	for one wouldnt it be 20+ in CR since for one the HD it has you gave it DR to magic but its immune to magic? darkvision and low-light vision (basically all the golems have this but without intelligence why does it matter?) are you going to treat the breath weapon like a dragons? (only able to be done in so many rounds?) With this said it looks killer... I was actually picturing an "Electro" verison myself... with that said a sonic golem type would be hard to face as well...
ArochanoX 11-17-05, 05:06 AM	That breath weapon is so lame. It's powerless. Make it 60ft cone and 10d6 or 15d4. Then that DR should be, at this high CR, DR 10/adamantium and epic. Maybe DR 15/adamanitum and epic is good too. The abilities of this creature are lame. Give it better wisdom (good golems are observant. Especially if bodyguards) and dexterity (magic and force have no mass and thus have no antikinetic forces affecting it.). This construct also has very lame amount of hit points. Give it 5-10 extra hit dice. This golem cannot hit anything with that lame attack bonus. Large Construct Hit Dice: 30d10+30 (195 hp) Initiative: +2 Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares) Armor Class: 35 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +8 deflection, +16 natural) touch 19, flat-footed 33 Base Attack/Grapple: +22/+40 Attack: Slam +37 melee (2d10+14) Full Attack: 2 slams +37 melee (2d10+14) Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft. Special Attacks: Breath weapon, spell-like abilities Special Qualities: Blur, construct traits, damage reduction 15/adamantine and epic, darkvision 60 ft., deflecting force, immunity to force, immunity to magic, low-light vision Saves: Fort +10, Ref +12, Will +11 Abilities: Str 38, Dex 15, Con --, Int --, Wis 13, Cha 1 Skills: -- Feats: -- Environment: Any Organization: Solitary or pair Challenge Rating: 21 Treasure: None Alignment: Always neutral Advancement: 30-40 HD (Large); 41-80 HD (Huge) Level Adjustment: -- Breath Weapon (Su): A 60 ft. cone of force (damage 15d4), Reflex DC 26 for half. The save DC is Will-based. Force golem must wait for 1d4+1 rounds before using this breath weapon again.
Germytech 11-17-05, 10:29 AM	Thank you very much for your comments. Darth_Azalin - Thank you, too, for your constructive criticism. You brought up many very good points... for one wouldnt it be 20+ in CR since for one the HD it has Right you are, especially considering its abilities, although I was unsure exactly what CR it might be. CR22? you gave it DR to magic but its immune to magic? Woops! Corrected. darkvision and low-light vision (basically all the golems have this but without intelligence why does it matter?) Well, yeah, all golems do have it. It means that they can still see enemies in darkness and shadowy illumination. They don't have to think abstractly about it. That's my thoughts, anyway. are you going to treat the breath weapon like a dragons? (only able to be done in so many rounds?) I didn't for a couple reasons. One, it is definitely weaker than a dragon's breath weapon. Two, most golem breath weapons do not have that limitation. However, do you suggest that I do put in that limitation? With this said it looks killer... I was actually picturing an "Electro" verison myself... with that said a sonic golem type would be hard to face as well... Thanks again. Once this gets hammered out, I would like to put together a whoole slew of other magic-based golems. If you can have a clay/stone/iron golem, why not a fire golem, or electricity golem? Lots of fun... ArochanoX - On the other side, your comments were entirely NON-constructive. That breath weapon is so lame. It does the same number of dice of damage as a dragon of its same CR. I gave it d4 instead of d6 because its force damage. DR should not have a magic or epic component, as Darth_Azalin pointed out politley. The abilities of this creature are lame. Based off of the iron golem, it has the same Wisdom and Dexterity. Force was never claimed to be "massless" of "antikinetic," and so I deem that this force golem indeed has both. This construct also has very lame amount of hit points. Again, its based off the iron golem. It has enough hit points for a constuct of this type.
Darth_Azalin 11-17-05, 11:46 AM	well I look at it this way... for one its 20d8 would make it an easy 20 then you went to d10 would then make it cr21 then you added 3 full hd as extra so again at least another +1.. your looking at maybe Cr23-25 with it able to breath every round.. but then again its breath weapon isnt too almighty. But what would you do if you wanted to breathe and do 1 slam? Too fight this you need to stay right next too it because only the breath weapon would hurt you... Another special defense you could give this would be something like (thorns) you take half of what you deal in melee to it.. again that would make it very nasty... On the breath weapon 8d4 isnt really hurtful.. meaning for one this is an epic monster and most pcs will make there save easy... So having it breath every round is alright (but how does it recharge itself -- is the force golem a walking battery? the more force it uses it takes away in "hps") Need to have it do a little more attacks.. I mean a dragon can do Claw/Claw/Bite and if theres room wing buffet all in the same round... and I dont if it breathes thats all it does... Future Golems Fire? 1. to much like a fire elemental.. and how will it not "burn out" dont say it will have something like everburning torch like spell cast on it (all though that would solve the problem but remember you dont get any heat form the torch) Electro like that one.. Also remember the ones in 2.0 ones that were just so cool Spiderstone #2 fav of mine Hammer #3 fav of mine Brain Magic Brass Minotaur #1 fav Gemstones (Ruby, Emerald, and Diamond) For fire there was the burning man golem
Germytech 11-17-05, 05:07 PM	For starters, the MM iron golem has 18d10 HD, and is CR 18. The force golem is identical except for the additional special abilities, 2 HD, and Strength +4. Everything else is the same. The breath weapon has a low DC and relatively weak damage for a CR20 monster. I think, when compared to a titan or CR20 old dragon, I think the force golem, if anything, seems relatively weak. Its major strength is actually force immunity: walking through a wall of force. Yet, at the same time, being able to corner people with it. But when it compares to number and type of attacks, special abilities, and overall stats, I think it holds its own at CR20. But more thoughts, please. Specifically, why should it be bumped to a higher CR, and how much higher?
ArochanoX 11-18-05, 02:09 PM	ArochanoX - On the other side, your comments were entirely NON-constructive. Well, thanks! May I criticize something about this monster? Well, first, as a CR 20 monster, this should do some damage to party of level 20. It has 2 attack modes: breath weapon and slams. Breath weapon: +works every round +does force damage that cannot be resisted -does damage very poorly -has extremely low DC -very small area Slams: -only average attack bonus -very poor damage To sum that up: every rogue-like character is immune to breath weapon, since it allows reflex save for half. The DC is so low, that even a wizard can avoid the breath easily (+6base +2dex +3cloak = +11ref). So it does only roughly 75% damage 6d4=15. Very low. Even it's every round. Not to mention its small area (30ft cone) that everyone can stay away. Slams have quite poor attack bonus (+28). Every buffed fighter has AC around 40 at that level. And they do very small amount of damage 2d10+13=24. 24 damage per hit has very low impact on fighter's hp. And the golem is very slow (20ft) so everyone can run away from it and shoot it from a distance. Very good tactic to kill this is to throw adamantine objects at it. Not to mention flying wizard using telekinesis or dimension door to drop heavy, adamantine objects at it. To fix these, I suggest giving it more HD because it gives more attack bonus, breath weapon save DC and HP. Give it better speed, so it can catch up fleeing foes. Give it DR/epic. Even though it's immune to magic, epic magic is so immensely powerful that it can cut through powerful magical defences. If the idea still disgusts you, give it also DR 10/- to symbolize its toughness. Almost every party has adamantine backup weapons for creatures like iron golem.
savant_warlord13 11-18-05, 02:58 PM	why does it have any natural armor? it should all be deflection
Germytech 11-20-05, 03:30 AM	Again, I would like to repeat, that this creature is based entirely on the iron golem. Iron Golem + 2 HD + extra abilities = Force Golem Iron Golem CR=18. Therefore, according to the SRD, the force golem is not weaker in terms of HD, saves, attack, abilities, speed, breath weapon DC, or what have you. Unless you disagree with the CR of the iron golem. savant_warlord13 - Although I did convert some of the iron golem's natural armor into a deflection bonus, I decided to retain much of it because the force golem is still solid. It can be hit, and can be damaged. Since it is still, somewhat, material and tangible, I thought a natural armor bonus (composed of "force" instead of "iron") still fit the concept. Force is not noly the material the golem is made from (natural armor), but also twists space in the vicinity (the deflection). My thoughts, anyway.
ArochanoX 11-20-05, 01:04 PM	Iron golem is good for level 12 party. That's my opinion. They're tough, but they're just automatons with no ranged weaponry.
Germytech 11-20-05, 08:29 PM	Iron golem is good for level 12 party. That's my opinion. They're tough, but they're just automatons with no ranged weaponry. All right, you don't go by the straight Challenge Rating system, then. That's fine. Since you consider a CR 18 iron golem to be only about CR 12, then simply take my CR 20 force golem and arbitrarily knock off 6. So, if you agree that the force golem is "good for a level 14 party" then I can confidently say that it should, in fact, be CR 20. Glad we cleared that up!
Khalarak Ironclaw 11-20-05, 09:24 PM	I like it, but I'd like to point out that the reason adamantine overcomes DR on golems (IMO) is because it ignores hardness. The DR represents the natural toughness of the material, and so adamantine can carve through a stone golem as easily as it carves through a stone wall. However, as far as I know force effects are not harmed by adamantine in the least. So, again IMO, the DR should be 10/- or 15/-, which would make it much tougher against a 20th level party. Oh, and btw, the Iron Golem in the MM is only CR 13, and so is the one in the SRD (http://d20srd.org/srd/monsters/golem.htm#ironGolem) .