Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 11-11-07, 09:45 AM	So, I'm preparing this new campaign setting (well, actually adding and changing details in the DragonMech setting), and one change I've decided on is this: beholders have a tie to Vecna. When Vecna ascended to divinity in that explosion that cost him his eye and hand, his eye became the ancestors of the beholders. Or maybe every part of him ascended to divinity, and his eye became the Great Mother. There's already precedence in this setting for the flesh or blood of divine/quasi-divine entities giving rise to new races. And I like it. Beholders are the eyes of Vecna. (This also means that Death Tyrants are more accepted among beholders, as they are paying tribute to their own creation myth). The point is, if this happened to his eye, it almost certainly happened to his hand as well. Except I can't think of any monsters that could have been born from the hand of Vecna. Does anyone have any ideas? And if not, does anyone have any ideas as to what abilities such a monster should possess? I'd prefer not to homebrew one if I could create an awesome niche for a pre-existing one, but if need be, I'll give it a shot.
Ebonarc 11-11-07, 10:01 AM	How about a variation on the wallmasters and floormasters from the Legend of Zelda franchise? They're pretty much walking hands, though their attacks would have to be altered, since all they do is return the target to the first room of the dungeon.
DebiHuman 11-11-07, 10:57 AM	Except I can't think of any monsters that could have been born from the hand of Vecna. You can always use crawling claws from Monsters of Faerūn. They were used in this adventure, which has d20 modern stats for them too: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20modern/oa/20030610a. Debby
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 11-11-07, 11:53 AM	Thanks. That looks like a good place to start. Although it seems strange that descendants of Vecna's hand are so much weaker than his eye. I guess I'll just have to homebrew some crawling claw swarms with levels of sorcerer. I mean really, they're descended from the hand of a mage. There's gotta be some innate magic. I'll probably also change them to undead.
Necroramo 11-11-07, 10:28 PM	It's a serious stretch, but the best I can think of off the top of my head is the forsaken shell?
Silversheen197 11-11-07, 10:55 PM	Just because it's fun, I'll stat up a monstrous hand for you that wound be similar to what you're after: Grasper Large Aberration Hit Dice: 11d8+66 (115 hp) Initiative: +5 Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), climb 20 ft. Armor Class: 27 (-1 size, +1 Dex, +17 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 26 Base Attack/Grapple: +8/+16 Attack: Finger blasts +8 ranged touch and slam +12 melee (2d6+6) Full Attack: Finger blasts +8 ranged touch and slam +12 melee (2d6+6) Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks: Finger rays, improved grab, crush Special Qualities: Blindsight 100 ft., damage reduction 10/cold iron Saves: Fort +9, Ref +6, Will +11 Abilities: Str 18, Dex 12, Con 22, Int 17, Wis 15, Cha 15 Skills: Hide +11, Climb +26, Knowledge (arcana) +17, Listen +16, Swim +18 Feats: Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Weapon Focus (slam) Environment: Cold hills Organization: Solitary, pair, or scourge (3-6) Challenge Rating: 13 Treasure: Double standard Alignment: Usually chaotic evil Advancement: 12-16 HD (Large); 17-33 HD (Huge) Level Adjustment: -- The lower part of this creature appears to be that of a monstrous spider, but instead of a head, an enourmous hand is connected to the abdomen at the wrist. The fingers of the hand are sharpened to a point, and a crackling sound emerges from the fingertips. Graspers were created by the hand of Vecna. They a vicious and sly hunters that prey on humanoids everywhere. Combat Graspers prefer to attack their opponents physically and crush the life out of them with its own hand, using the magic in its fingertips merely to disable opponents. Finger Rays (Su): Each of the grasper's fingers can produce a ray of magical energy as a free action. It can fire up to two of them per round. Its eye rays are: hold monster, enervation, blindness/deafness, inflict critical wounds, and daze monster. Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, the grasper must hit with a slam attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can crush. Crush (Ex): On a successful grapple check, a grasper deals 4d6+12 points of damage.
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 11-11-07, 10:57 PM	It's a serious stretch, but the best I can think of off the top of my head is the forsaken shell? Foresaken shell . . . hmm . . . that looks promising. But as I don't have Libris Mortis, could you at least give me a general feel for what it's like? With 4e so close, I'm not particularly keen on buying new books right now. (Heck, I'm a college student. I'm supposed to be cheap). I know. Code of conduct. You can't give me much. I don't want much. I mean, preferably a bit more than just the CR. What makes it unique? Sell it to me.
Necroramo 11-12-07, 12:52 AM	AFB but its CR I think is 7, definitely in that range though, and it's literally an undead mass of skin. I guess you could make it more hand-ish if you either tinkered with its SA's or its feats, giving it feats like Scorpion's Grasp to essentially give it improved grab
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 11-12-07, 09:59 PM	Yeah. That sounds like a good base. Maybe give it antimagic grapple like the Balhannoth (MM4). Or better yet, a magic-draining grapple akin to a spellthief's sneak attack. (Including the ability to steal both spell slots and already active spells). Yeah, that'd work. And I'd be playing up the angle of dead mage => death of magic. Which works with beholders too. Maybe I could even give them sneak attack and the ability to deal sneak attack damage to something they grapple (like the Savage Grapple feat allows). To balance it, I may want to limit it to just grappling. And of course they'd have to give up the extra damage to steal magic. But that's cool. In a way, it looks like the hands are shaping up to serve as better eyes of the church of Vecna, while the eyes make very good hands for the church of Vecna. I like the irony. Two other things I really need to think of: (1) What do I call the hands? (2) What do they actually look like? I mean, if beholders were his eye, you can see a lot of changes occurred. How might his hand have similarly changed?
Necroramo 11-12-07, 11:12 PM	1. Whatever you want 2. The whole premise of the forsaken shell really works well IMO, you just have to make it recognizably formerly a giant hand (or something) somehow, but the whole concept of the monster is so incredibly cool that I wouldn't lose it
DocDoom 11-13-07, 03:43 AM	You could use nearly any Monster that uses Tentacles/gRapples, and uses Magic, and just describe it differently. I do that all the time: Use the Statblock of one Monster, and describe it as a different one. Works good.
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 11-13-07, 10:22 AM	You could use nearly any Monster that uses Tentacles/gRapples, and uses Magic, and just describe it differently. I do that all the time: Use the Statblock of one Monster, and describe it as a different one. Works good. In that case, I think I could really use the balhannoth. I already have that book. Even if I have been interested in Libris Mortis for a while, it's not high enough on my wish list.
Necroramo 11-14-07, 02:09 AM	I just remembered, omg... Darktentacles!!!
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 11-15-07, 07:08 PM	I just remembered, omg... Darktentacles!!! Let's see . . . darktentacles . . . darktentacles . . . nope, I've never used them. Remind me: are they in the SRD?
Necroramo 11-16-07, 04:44 PM	MM2