Post/Author/DateTime	Post
unseenmage 10-04-05, 04:18 PM	i have a munchkin in my playgroup who once claimed that he could kill anything i could throw at him. then i let him read the following monster. we never actually fought it; and i never did get to give it wiz lvls... please feel free to use this thread to post your own pentultimate monsters and TCKs (total campaign kill). i will post the two even bigger tarrasques (and no, i don't mean just with class lvls or x-tra HD) when i have their math done. enjoy. Name, Class Levels: Paragon Tarrasque Size Type (Subtype): colossal magical beast HD (average hp): 48d10+1,554 (2,034) Initiative: +14 Speed: 60' AC/tch/ff: 56 (+12 insight, +12 luck, +30 nat, +10 dex, -8 size), tch 26, ff 46 BAB/Grapple: 48/89 Attack (dmg): bite +90 M (4d8+45), or horn +88 M (1d10+45), or claw +88 M (1d12+45), or tail slap +88 M (3d8+45) Full Attack (dmg): bite +90 M (4d8+45), and 2 horns +88 M (1d10+45), and 2 claws +88 M (1d12+45), and tail slap +88 M (3d8+45) S/R: 30'/20' Special Attckk: Augmented Critical (Ex): The tarrasque’s bite threatens a critical hit on a natural attack roll of 18–20, dealing triple damage on a successful critical hit. Frightful Presence (Su): The tarrasque can inspire terror by charging or attacking. Affected creatures must succeed on a DC 56 Will save or become shaken, remaining in that condition as long as they remain with 60 feet of the tarrasque. The save DC is Charisma-based. Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, the tarrasque must hit a Huge or smaller opponent with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple (with a +13 insight bonus) as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can try to swallow the foe the following round. Rush (Ex): Once per minute, the normally slow-moving tarrasque can move at a speed of 150 feet. Swallow Whole (Ex): The tarrasque can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of Huge or smaller size by making a successful grapple check. Once inside, the opponent takes 2d8+8 points of crushing damage plus 2d8+6 points of acid damage per round from the tarrasque’s digestive juices. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by dealing 50 points of damage to the tarrasque’s digestive tract (AC 38). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out. The tarrasque’s gullet can hold 2 Huge, 8 Large, 32 Medium, 128 Small, or 512 Tiny or smaller creatures. Paragon Insight (EX): A paragon tarrasque’s special attacks all gain a +13 insight bonus, if applicable. The +13 insight bonus may only be applied to a given special ability once. also has a +12 insight bonus to AC and gains a +10 insight bonus on all its saving throws. (already figured in.) Spell-Like Abilities (Sp): greater dispel magic, haste, and see invisibility three times per day, at 15th caster level. Paragon Luck (SU): makes all its attacks with a +25 luck bonus on the attack roll, gains a +20 luck bonus on Damage rolls for all melee and thrown ranged attacks. and has a +12 luck bonus to AC (already figured in.) Paragon Tarrasque Natural Weapons (EX): A paragon tarrasque’s natural weapons are treated as epic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction Special Quality: Carapace (Ex): The tarrasque’s armorlike carapace is exceptionally tough and highly reflective, deflecting all rays, lines, cones, and even magic missil e spells. There is a 30% chance of reflecting any such effect back at the caster; otherwise, it is merely negated. Check for reflection before rolling to overcome the creature’s spell resistance. Regeneration (Ex): 40 No form of attack deals lethal damage to the tarrasque. The tarrasque regenerates even if it fails a saving throw against a disintegrate spell or a death effect. If the tarrasque fails its save against a spell or effect that would kill it instantly (such as those mentioned above), the spell or effect instead deals nonlethal damage equal to the creature’s full normal hit points +10. The tarrasque is immune to effects that produce incurable or bleeding wounds, such as mummy rot, a sword with the wounding special ability, or a clay golem’s cursed wound ability. The tarrasque can be slain only by raising its nonlethal damage total to its full normal hit points +10 and using a wish or miracle spell to keep it dead. If the tarrasque loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 1d6 minutes (the detached piece dies and decays normally). The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump. Paragon Competence (EX): gains a +10 competence bonus on all its skill checks. (already figured in) Paragon Hit Points (EX): always has maximum hit points. Paragon creatures also gain an additional 12 hit points per HD. cold resistance 10. DR 15/epic, immunity to fire, poison, disease, energy drain, and ability damage, scent, SR 60, FH 20, Saves: Fort 26+10+20 Ref 26+10+10 Will 16+10+2+9 Abilities: Str 60 (25) Dex 31 (10) Con 50 (20) Int 18 (4) Wis 29 (9) Cha 29 (9) Skills: Listen +78, Search +65, Spot +78, Survival +70 Feats: multiattk b, Alertness, Awesome Blow, Blind- Fight, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Great Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Power Attack, Toughness (6) Environment: any Organization: solitary CR: 35 Treasure: standard Alignment: always N Advancement: 49+ HD cllsl Level Adjustment: +0 Eat/Sleep/Breathe: y/y/y Languages (bonus): -- (--) Height/Weight: base H: 50' H mod: -- base W:130 tons W mod: -- Aging Affects: infant: -- juvenile: -- adolecent: -- adult: -- simple class mod:-- moderate class mod: -- advanced class mod: -- middle age: -- venerable: -- max age: -- Carrying Capacity: Light: 544,768 lbs. Med: 1,089,536 lbs. Heavy: 1,638,400 lbs. Drag: 8,192,000 lbs. Pack: +135,168 lbs. Construction: -- Prices: -- Racial Traits: The tarrasque has a +8 racial bonus on Listen and Spot checks. Description: The paragon tarrasque is 70 feet long and 50 feet tall, and it weighs about 130 tons. The paragon tarrasque also cannot speak. Combat: Like the tarrasque the paragon tarrasque attacks with its claws, teeth, horns, and tail. Society: --
VampiricBloodlustNemesis 10-04-05, 06:03 PM	I think i just had a Big T-gasm ^_^
malykoth 10-04-05, 06:33 PM	Dude, please have pity on my old eyes...really hard to read! (but maybe that's just me) Could you try giving each entry under the creature its own line? Maybe put the catagory in bold-face? Here's an example... Special Attacks: Augmented Critical (Ex): The tarrasque’s bite threatens a critical hit on a natural attack roll of 18–20, dealing triple damage on a successful critical hit. Frightful Presence (Su): The tarrasque can inspire terror by charging or attacking. Affected creatures must succeed on a DC 56 Will save or become shaken, remaining in that condition as long as they remain with 60 feet of the tarrasque. The save DC is Charisma-based. Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, the tarrasque must hit a Huge or smaller opponent with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple (with a +13 insight bonus) as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can try to swallow the foe the following round. Just a suggestion... ;)
R.M.G.C.L.F. 10-04-05, 06:42 PM	I don't believe in making creatures soley to see if I can wipe out PCs. If somebody acts that munchkiny, I would beat him oer the head with my dungeon master's guide.
Beware of Kobold 10-04-05, 08:57 PM	instead of adding templates and class levels to a tarrasque in order to kill a munchkin, couldn't you just have a level 1 goblin warrior kill him in his sleep with a coup de grace? that would be a lot easier
unseenmage 10-05-05, 03:14 AM	my apologies for the lack of bold. i have this saved as a wordpad doc as well and my formatting didn't carry over, i'll fix it. fiating that the munchkin be slain isn't nearly as fun or worthwhile as beating them at their own game. also rest assured that they were forced to do most of the number crunching (unbeknowst of it's purpose of course) for me. :D what we really wondered at the time was if a templated tarrasque was really THE tarrasque and if not couldn't there be more than one since it isn't really THE tarrasque?
AlanBruce 10-05-05, 09:52 AM	Who hasn't had those? Little halfling punks who rebel against everything the DM has to say and claim they can take over his world. Your Tarrasque is impressive, yes. But why waste such an exquisite living weapon over some fool like your munchkin? Instead of killing him outright, arrange for an encounter where a wizard casts blindness over the poor sap Have the player be miserable as his fellow party members pull the old "blindman tricks" with him (such as having him walk first into a dungeon to check for traps... being blind, he won't know any better). Keep him like that for a few sessions. And whenever he's close to finding someone to cure his affliction, have that chance slip away from hsi fingers. At last, tired of playing a handicapped character, kill him with a minor threat... a goblin scout, maybe. If that doesn't humble them, I don't know what will.
Baned 10-05-05, 01:04 PM	instead of adding templates and class levels to a tarrasque in order to kill a munchkin, couldn't you just have a level 1 goblin warrior kill him in his sleep with a coup de grace? that would be a lot easierAnd more embarassing. *Takes notes for his own campaign* fiating that the munchkin be slain isn't nearly as fun or worthwhile as beating them at their own game. also rest assured that they were forced to do most of the number crunching (unbeknowst of it's purpose of course) for me. :DI've nearly killed my party by having them fight clones of themselves. It was a test to show them what their characters were capable of. Fighter/Wizard with buffing and attack spells who never used either. Sorcerer who never used his buff spells. Barbarian who never rages.
unseenmage 10-05-05, 02:40 PM	i always kinda' wanted to pit the party against their mirror plane (MotP pg 204) selves but the flat fact is that i have practically 0 real play time under my belt and that munchkin is just plain better at the crunching than i am. don't get me wrong, i play and have played. i've just played mostly variant games that had so little to do with the printed, current edition rules that they were pretty unrecognizable. the munchkin actually taught me how to play magic the gathering first just so he'd have someone to beat. i eventually got to be as good as he was at that then he quits magic almost altogether (he actually was so good at it that it wasn't any fun for him anymore; no joke) and taught me D&D. now he breaks the game, D&D, on accident just by building effective chars. he knows the pros of char optimizing (for starters it's funny to watch the math dance) and he knows the cons (overshadowing dumber, sorry, less skilled players, ruining gameworlds, ect.) the fact of the matter is that he's moved beyond D&D altogether and is currantly designing his own game that i am actually looking forward to playing. mind you he's doing this without anyone else in his spare time. so yeah, i could kill him with a kobold or blind him. i could fiat a lot of things (and have) but when we play, for the sake of moving things right along, with our newbies (technically me included) he's the one who gets all the stupid questions thrown at him and he's the one who has to crunch numbers and quote rules as written so i don't spend my one DMing night out of the week asking "where's the calculator" or "who has my DMG". we're working on the problems and making progress. i look at it this way, as long as we're having fun i don't really care and as long as long as he's willing to suffer through what i'm certain is a woefully dreadful game experience with us while answering all of our stupid questions so that we can all have a little fun then i'm willing to DM for the sake of the same. the presented monster(s) was worked up some yaers ago when i was still such a bad DM that i wouldn't have played with me. i just thought it was cool and that someone in here might get a kick out of it. the other two tarrasques i also worked up (more to see which was more bada**) are the kaiju (think godzilla monster template) tarrasque and the paragon kaiju tarrasque. also, the question is still out there; is a templated tarrasque still THE tarrasque and if not can there be more than one? PS: the MM 3.5 says there is never more thanone tarrasque.
Jagyr Ebonwood 10-05-05, 03:02 PM	I don't believe in making creatures soley to see if I can wipe out PCs. If somebody acts that munchkiny, I would beat him oer the head with my dungeon master's guide. Seriously. It's so much simpler and more eloquent to say "You are breathed upon by The Overdeity. You die, your soul dies, your dog dies, your entire extended family develops brain-explodey-itis." Inventing huge monsters to kill problem players is too much work and counter effective...
ThunderGod 10-05-05, 09:37 PM	An easier way to handle this situation is to use the Aleax from the Book of Exhalted Deeds, the gods would likely take some interest in stopping the PCs taking over a world. The Aleax have the abilities, traits, qualities and equipment of your PCs but are just slightly tougher due to some additional abilities making them a real challenge and a very effective enforcement tool.
Part-Human2 10-05-05, 10:59 PM	further proof that DMs can kill you with ease? Um, you might not understand what D&D is about if you're looking at things this way. Maybe you should review the role of the DM in the game and not waste your time on things like this.
runestar 10-05-05, 11:02 PM	What's to stop a dm from simply fudging a few dice rolls and declaring you failed a save even though you made it? Save for threats of bodily harm and the like.... :cool:
Edymnion 10-05-05, 11:51 PM	what we really wondered at the time was if a templated tarrasque was really THE tarrasque and if not couldn't there be more than one since it isn't really THE tarrasque?Check 2e Planescape (or was it Spelljammers) that had an entire planet full of Tarrasques. :D
ThunderGod 10-07-05, 09:35 AM	Check 2e Planescape (or was it Spelljammers) that had an entire planet full of Tarrasques. :D In 1st edition their was supposedly 1 Tarrasque on every world, not sure if this helps argue that their can be paragon Tarrasque or not.
oxybe 10-07-05, 11:21 AM	from the looks of things, you seem to have a good relationship with this player, and his only real crime is that he created a powerful character. a real munchkin wouldnt help nearly as much as this guy is (from what i understand, he's almost co-DM'ing). instead of killing him why not use him as a catalyst in the story? if he's the most experienced player with the "best" PC, use this! instead of having him overshadow other PC's in their niche on a regular basis, let him use his powers in his own little scenario every once in a while, if only to give the impression that his character has other uses then just a "big beatstick/universal everything with legs". also, if worse comes to worse, you could just ask him out of the game to tone down the usage of his powers. now, if it really comes to the point where you cannot do anything to curb his overshadowing + powergaming presence, give him 2 choices: new char or leave. let his munchy crunchy char leave the game with dignity, and a newer, less twinked char take his place. often, a power character comes into play if too many options are given. the less books, the less tools a powergamer has at his disposal, and less powerful the characters tend to be (although a strait cleric or druid 20 is more then powerful enough to be "game breaking" when used properly)
Shemeska the Marauder 10-07-05, 01:20 PM	Check 2e Planescape (or was it Spelljammers) that had an entire planet full of Tarrasques. :D Spelljammer. Planescape did however have Archfiends galore, Slaad Lords, Primus, Archomentals, all that fun stuff. And of course... http://arcanofox.foxpaws.net/flay.gif But that last one is more setting mechanic and not an NPC, and I'm sorry but if a player was foolish enough to attempt to fight most of those beings above, well they deserve to be smacked upside the head with RMGCLF's DMG. :)
R.M.G.C.L.F. 10-07-05, 02:57 PM	An easier way to handle this situation is to use the Aleax from the Book of Exhalted Deeds, the gods would likely take some interest in stopping the PCs taking over a world. The Aleax have the abilities, traits, qualities and equipment of your PCs but are just slightly tougher due to some additional abilities making them a real challenge and a very effective enforcement tool. Better yet, beat them over the head with The Book of Exhalted Deeds. It's larger and has denser binding, making it a more effective weapon and punitive tool.
rampant 10-07-05, 03:05 PM	wouldn't the secondary attacks of the Parrasque deal less damage like say half-the str mod less and the best way to deal with munchkins is generally change the feat selection of monsters take the dragon gife it rapid strike and improved rs for claw and wing two-headed lets you add bites to the fray and double breath all without resorting to MR.T also if you are going to give a magic item as treasur make the party fight said item except for dumb monsters most critters know how to use the magic items in their stash and do
DaveReaves 10-07-05, 04:43 PM	That guy is pretty strong, but I have seen meaner. Dark Lord DM boosted Big T to a CR85 on the D20 Modern Boards. http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6656858&postcount=39 Personaly I still like my Ogre Barbarian (10) Dire Wear Elephant. Though he has so far been undefeated, it can be done. Hard fights are much better than no chances of winning.
unseenmage 10-09-05, 10:02 PM	Yeah, we kind of do co-DM. I personally think that he should be the one DMing but he refuses to do so. Probably because he has literally already beaten the game and plays now only because we live out in nowhere IN. I am currently restricting him to the core books and making him abide by the spirit of the rules; basically meaning he's not allowed to spring rules loopholes on me mid-game without permission no matter how cool it may sound at the time. The other DM in our group has actually prohibited him from even "helping" his fellow players to see the glory that is minmaxing. I am also currently taking measures to reduce the impact that the rules are having on building the characters themselves so as to redirect the emphasis of my campaign back to the fun and, potentially, the roleplaying. For instance, I've made all the characters semi-closely related so that when one of them dies the other characters have to actually care and can't just loot him and leave him. I've also instituted a variation of the D20 modern setting's Wealth Bonus System modified for gold piece values that eliminates the necessity to count pennies (copper pieces) or even loot common items off of monsters. No longer will the sale of large greatclubs be lure enough for the party's fighter to ask me how many of that or any other insignificancy there are after the battle. In reality it makes a lot of items flat out free but we have a house rule of "if you start selling things like a merchant then your PC is now my battle hardened NPC merchant." I also instituted an, "it takes 1d4+1 hours (like a gather information check) to shop for a particular item or group of similar items and it takes the same time to sell a treasure or group of similar treasures", for when the PC's aren't quite crossing that mark of being merchantile but are doing just a little too much making and selling off of cheap-o item number seventy-seven just so they can buy that one airship. Add to that the time that somebody tried to dig a hole, the time we wanted to build a road, the time we travelled through time and couldn't begin to guess how many centuries a building stands before it crumbles or a sword sits before it disintigrates, and the new anti-munchkin "no half-half-half" rule and you've got quite a pile of house rules. Even with all of that and glossing over as much rules-referencing as it takes to keep the game fun you just don't always know that allowing an animated object carriage is going to be game breaking until the wizard gets sick of an arial encounter and teleports it 60 feet over the grell's location. The grell, by the way, was 40 feet off the ground and the wagon got nice and healed afterward by a wand of repair moderate. Some situations you just have to DM to believe. Thanks for all the advice and please feel free to post your own hardest to face monster or monster you intended to be hard to defeat. Sincere, Unseenmage
warlockco 10-09-05, 10:24 PM	my apologies for the lack of bold. i have this saved as a wordpad doc as well and my formatting didn't carry over, i'll fix it. fiating that the munchkin be slain isn't nearly as fun or worthwhile as beating them at their own game. also rest assured that they were forced to do most of the number crunching (unbeknowst of it's purpose of course) for me. :D what we really wondered at the time was if a templated tarrasque was really THE tarrasque and if not couldn't there be more than one since it isn't really THE tarrasque? In Spelljammer there was either a planet or a moon that had herds of Tarrasque.
warlockco 10-09-05, 10:27 PM	Personaly I still like my Ogre Barbarian (10) Dire Wear Elephant. Though he has so far been undefeated, it can be done. Hard fights are much better than no chances of winning. That reminds me of my Ogre Cavalry in a game. Ogres on Triceratops. :D
talkingbeatles 10-09-05, 11:27 PM	I hate the Tarrasque...and all of his cousins.
Teron Gorefiend 10-10-05, 04:56 PM	Spelljammer. Planescape did however have Archfiends galore, Slaad Lords, Primus, Archomentals, all that fun stuff. And of course... http://arcanofox.foxpaws.net/flay.gif But that last one is more setting mechanic and not an NPC, and I'm sorry but if a player was foolish enough to attempt to fight most of those beings above, well they deserve to be smacked upside the head with RMGCLF's DMG. :) Shemeska, I love that Lady of Pain smiley. Seeing that made this whole thread worthwhile. :clap: