Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mindolin 08-06-07, 10:02 AM	Hey everyone, I am planning a campaign in Rokugan, and was planning on inserting a bit of anime, since the people at my gaming group are anime fans. I was thinking of doing some Dragon Ball Z (at a managable power level) and Naruto. It was very easy to get the DBZ done in, but I have run into a snag when trying to do Naruto. Does anyone have any suggestions of how to drop the general ideas of Naruto in? I had the idea to make the villages simply being minor clans, but am open to other ideas. Also, does anyone have any ideas of other anime that could make a good addition to such a campaign?
The_Shaman 08-06-07, 04:12 PM	DBZ and Rokugan? Oh, boy... That can get some flames at you, mate. As for the Naruto-ish ninja, I don't think they fit very well. Remember that the default Rokugan has ninja as something of a myth, and the clans aren't very keen on having outsiders with any amount of power. The Naruto-ish ninja could survive as allies or members of a minor clan, but they will need to be a LOT less visible (and probably not call themselves ninja) to get anywhere. Other anime series that you could put in... Hmm, if you like that kind of series, Samurai Deeper Kyo or even might fit a bit better. Anything with some historical or mythological themes will fit even better, imo. I think an adventure based on Saiyuki or 100 Stories/Requeim from the Darkness could be fun.
Mindolin 08-06-07, 04:56 PM	Maybe, but if done properly the Saiyans can be just something else from another plane of existence. I think the Minor Clans idea will work fairly well, maybe have them be considered little more than Ronin, despite being a clan, simply because they will sell their services as mercenaries. Yeah, the Naruto characters are called Ninja, but they really are mercenaries, with a number of different abilities, not all of them stealthy. Kyo's okay, I've seen a few episodes and have been meaning to actually read the series.
MagusBlack 08-06-07, 06:44 PM	Dragon Ball Z? That's way too overpowered...go back to the old Dragon Ball series, much easier on your head. Naruto's world is...not right for D&D. In that world ninjas are the end-all; be-all. The Imperial Champion (ninja), the wise man of Mt. Hiei (ninja), wandering swordsman...also a ninja...or else he's no threat. See in Naruto anyone of power is either a ninja or employs them, and every other sword-swininger is just cheap-labor. So look for a more Universally friendly world...like Ninja Scroll for instance. Samurai, ronin, ninja, wandering priest --all are equally crazy powerful in the own ways with none of them lording it over the others...unless you happen to be a demon...but that is matter of race.
narukagami 08-06-07, 07:03 PM	Are you looking to specificly emulate those particular anime, or are you just using them as examples to say "I want an over-the-top version of Rokugan"? Allot of "over the top" martial arts anime action can be done with liberal use of wild descriptions, psionics, psionic feats, and the Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords. As for "ninja" in Rokugan: As much as its claimed "they're a myth" or "they don't exist" almost every clan makes use of them in one form or another. There are the Ikoma Spymasters, Shosuro Shinobi, Daidoji Harriers, and the Hiruma Scouts, just to name a few. I do have to ask, though, why Rokugan? Why not make your own world where such over the top action is the norm?
Sleepwalker13666 08-06-07, 07:09 PM	You might try Tome of Battle, also i remember seeing a bunch of post in the psionics boards regarding Naruto.
narukagami 08-06-07, 07:13 PM	I like that psionic Naruto thread for several reasons: 1) It shows some really cool things and combos you can do with psionics 2) It shows how easy it is to reflavor psionics into anything you want. and 3) It shows all the "I want to stat anime character X" people that D&D isn't a good system for emulating an anime exactly, as the friggen ROOKIE STUDENTS are all levels 15-20.
Sleepwalker13666 08-06-07, 07:15 PM	I like that psionic Naruto thread for several reasons: 1) It shows some really cool things and combos you can do with psionics 2) It shows how easy it is to reflavor psionics into anything you want. and 3) It shows all the "I want to stat anime character X" people that D&D isn't a good system for emulating an anime exactly, as the friggen ROOKIE STUDENTS are all levels 15-20. yeah, even most video game characters like those in soul caliber take at least 12 levels to get the job done.
TheAnthroDM 08-06-07, 07:48 PM	How about no?
Mindolin 08-06-07, 10:15 PM	How about no? Can you give a reason for your negativity? Not trying to be rude but it would be nice for you to give a reason for it to not work, instead of just saying it won't. Magusblack, the reason I wanted to use Dragon Ball Z is to allow Saiyans, Half-Saiyans, and Namekians as races. For everyone saying it's way overpowered anime, I realize this and am going to be pulling the power back quite a bit, for example my general Naruto shinobi are going to be the arcane varient of the swordsage, so that they get both some spells and melee combat. I am fully prepared to use both Psionics and Tome of Battle, as I enjoy both systems. And Narukagami, the reason I am using Rokugan instead of making my own campaign world is because, quite frankly, I suck at making my own world, and so am trying to just use a premade world to help me plan my own world, which I am going to be working on as the campaign progresses. And Sleepwalker13666, you don't always need that many levels, I've made a workable beginning of the game version of Link that had 5 levels.
Kagerou 08-06-07, 11:09 PM	For your own personal amusement, you could have Himura Kenshin/Battousai the Man-Slayer wandering around. Thanks to ToB, I have him statted out as a level 14 swordsage, but for Rokugan I'd stat him out as a Samurai 5/Iaijutsu Master 10.
Sleepwalker13666 08-06-07, 11:19 PM	And Sleepwalker13666, you don't always need that many levels, I've made a workable beginning of the game version of Link that had 5 levels. True not everyone, but I did say it didn't take that for everyone.
Mindolin 08-06-07, 11:38 PM	Oh, I agree with you there.
TheAnthroDM 08-07-07, 01:11 AM	Can you give a reason for your negativity? Not trying to be rude but it would be nice for you to give a reason for it to not work, instead of just saying it won't. Yes, I can. Thank you for asking. You didn't ask will you, but I will anyway. Using Anime in DnD at all causes a lot of problems, mostly because the abilities generated in any animated series are strictly limited by a system that has not been tested and probably won't work in DnD style game. Furthermore when you get into series like DBZ you get a level of power that is strictly ludicrous. Energy generated by DBZ reasons that a human body can be more stable than... the earth? And that while one can have the body to control an entire planet, save or die is completely overpowered. In short: No, Don't do it.
calronmoonflower 08-07-07, 04:00 AM	Well I ran unto this class online. The Champion (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/mYkD5jL8N9SAcClN3pZ.html) It's third party, but if you gestalt it with another class you could create a super sayian transformation. It isn't near as powerful, but it is close as you'll get. Don't try to replicate specific anime characters. It normally will not work even with gestalt classes. Instead you can have them as mythic heroes that some characters try to emulate. That why you can fall short and not be disappointed.
Mindolin 08-07-07, 10:33 AM	Of course I'm dropping back on the power level quite a bit, so the complaints about it being overpowered aren't really much of a problem since the only thing I allow that I have made myself is magic items, and maybe a few spells. We will be nowhere near the power level of even Dragon Ball, where Master Roshi blew up the moon. The Saiyans I am using are a modified Giff race, where they get Improved Unarmed Strike instead of Firearm Prof. The Ki blasts? Either a few levels in warlock or a few of the ki blast feats, or maybe letting a Warblade take the Fan the Flames desert wind manuever, since I've done it in another game and doesn't advesely affect the game. It's difficult but you can make reasonable leveled anime characters, I've made a goku at level 11, and it represented him pretty well, of course it was from at the very latest, his battle with Raditz, so no super strength and no kaioken, and no plot device attack.
Millennium 08-07-07, 10:48 AM	One of the big things about the world of Naruto is that everyone -or at least everyone of any consequence whatsoever- is a ninja. They just are. This holds for the major political movers and shakers of the ninja community (non-ninja politicians are just tools to raise money for the ninjas) all the way down to the guy who runs the ramen stand on the corner. To simulate this, I would bring in the Gestalt rules from Unearthed Arcana and the Ninja class from Complete Adventurer. I would then specify that for all significant PCs and NPCs at all levels, one half of the gestalt must always be in the Ninja class: this represents basic ninja training and skills. The other half of the gestalt may be chosen by players as normal, representing how the character specializes as a ninja or even their "day jobs" as something other than a typical warrior for hire. The end result of this is that everyone gets a full ninja progression in addition to whatever other class they might choose. The only point to bringing in the gestalt rules is to clarify the mechanics of how it works.
Quijenoth 08-07-07, 10:56 AM	Of cause theres nothing stopping you from starting a DBZ/Rokugan Campaign at Higher levels (say 10th level). Given the style of the programs its very much inclined to Epic levels. Just relegate all core-classes to cannon fodder and build/modify prestige-classes for the "Heroes". Job Done.
MagicMouth 08-07-07, 01:47 PM	For everyone saying it's way overpowered anime, I realize this and am going to be pulling the power back quite a bit, for example my general Naruto shinobi are going to be the arcane varient of the swordsage, so that they get both some spells and melee combat. I am fully prepared to use both Psionics and Tome of Battle, as I enjoy both systems. Ah, yes, I remember when you posted that idea on the Campaign Workshop boards. As I´ve said, it´s a very nice and interesting idea and motivated me to try something similar in my group. However, I suspect there are quite a few balance issues with this variant. I´ve planned to start an own thread regarding this, but one idea I have is to reduce the duration for most spells to 1 round/level. Probably needs more adjusting, but perhaps that is a good start?
JaniceWilson 08-07-07, 03:41 PM	If you're just looking for a similar flavor without shaking up the world too badly you could do Naruto-esque ninjas as minor clans of mercenaries using the Swordsage class (for the majority of the clan's members) using the variant on page 20 of Tome of Battle under "Adaptation" that allows them to make use of arcane spells instead of maneuvers. Saiyans could be done easily enough as a race of psionic outsiders and half saiyans obviously being the half breed thereof. Namekians could be a form of rival to the saiyens I guess. However, call the Naruto ninjas something other than ninjas.
Mindolin 08-08-07, 10:03 AM	If you're just looking for a similar flavor without shaking up the world too badly you could do Naruto-esque ninjas as minor clans of mercenaries using the Swordsage class (for the majority of the clan's members) using the variant on page 20 of Tome of Battle under "Adaptation" that allows them to make use of arcane spells instead of maneuvers. Saiyans could be done easily enough as a race of psionic outsiders and half saiyans obviously being the half breed thereof. Namekians could be a form of rival to the saiyens I guess. However, call the Naruto ninjas something other than ninjas. That is the way I was going to use to make the Shinobi.
Roxlimn 08-08-07, 10:24 AM	It isn't true that everyone in Naruto who's anyone is a Ninja. In fact, the ninja themselves are hired by other people who do matter, and their services and alliegances only make sense in the context of others. What is true is that the only people that Ninjas care about in Naruto is other Ninjas since they usually don't interfere directly in National warfare and we don't really know what powers serious Samurai in that world can call upon. I second the "Swordsage" suggestion made here with the modificaiton that you use Psionic powers instead of Arcane Spells and refer to the Psionic Naruto thread for inspiration and guidance.
Jenrock 08-08-07, 10:35 AM	While I know nothing about Naruto or Dragon Ball Z, and I left Rokugan a while ago, I think that this link (http://www.narutod20.com/) might come in handy. Also, I reccomend that you PM a certain Darien_CR about the Book of Ki that he wrote. Both of these ought to help out a great deal.
heavenoffilth 09-06-07, 01:30 PM	has anyone tried to do a low lvl Bleach campaign in Rokugan. it sound like it would work :confused:
narukagami 09-06-07, 02:58 PM	has anyone tried to do a low lvl Bleach campaign in Rokugan. it sound like it would work :confused: Hm... a group of spirit warriors who's duty is to ensure spirits pass safely into Meido? Replace Hollows and Hueco Mundo with Oni and Jigoku? You might be on to something there...
The_Shaman 09-07-07, 12:11 PM	has anyone tried to do a low lvl Bleach campaign in Rokugan. it sound like it would work :confused: Possible, to the point that ghosts and similar things exist in Rokugan. However, the entire Shinigami network is likely to cause problems, and I'm not sure that Rokugan has the kind of two-world division to make it work. Again, like most anime, it could work - but it takes a lot of adaptation.
kaibrightwing 09-08-07, 01:58 AM	Since im little new here. I created my world nine years ago and most of the players/ friends love my world but its a work in progress. Whatever world you create with your players is going to work.but is going to take time well for me it did. I would love to see what you got on your world DnD with nurato sign me up.:D
mato_hibiki 09-08-07, 10:59 AM	I've gotta agree with nixing the DBZ stuff. I've never had a single good experience with that stuff, due to power creep. Naruto is the same thing honestly... (And I'm a fan of both DBZ and Naruto shows and manga, before anyone gets the wrong idea) Ruroni Kenshin on the other hand, floats my boat nicely. You never lose the feeling that a single bullet would seriously mess up, if not outright kill, anyone it hit. Plus it gives you the excuse to use psionic feats and the book of nine swords. :D Aww yeah!
The Ubbergeek 09-09-07, 01:49 PM	Not a bad idea to look at anime for inspiration - if you take stuff that can be reasonably mixed in D&D. Shin Angyo Onshi (famous manwha (korean manga) and the animesque adaptation) would make a good D20 setting, I say. or at least gives some ideas, by example
Dragonhelm 11-15-07, 09:04 AM	One thing I did in a short-lived Inuyasha game was to use my wu jen spells, but call out their names as I was casting them. This way, it came across anime-style, where you yell the name of your power as you used it. Doing so added so much flavor to the game!
Silvercrys 11-15-07, 09:32 AM	For your own personal amusement, you could have Himura Kenshin/Battousai the Man-Slayer wandering around. Thanks to ToB, I have him statted out as a level 14 swordsage, but for Rokugan I'd stat him out as a Samurai 5/Iaijutsu Master 10. Nah, go the other way. Swordsage 7/Shiba Protector 1/Swordsage +X This is only from ToB and OA, and gets him Wis to attack and damage from Shiba Protector :D There's also an updated Wis-based Iaijutsu Master, with slightly lower prereqs, here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=820605). It's homebrew, but I prefer it to the Int/Cha version. Besides, it got rid of all the dead levels. If you don't mind a homebrew feat, make him a Swordsage 7/Shiba Protector 1/Iaijutsu Master 5/Swordsage +X and take Practiced Initiator (+2 to IL). He'll still lose 1 Initiator Level, but Cha (or Wis if you use the progression I linked to) to damage for every Iaijutsu Dice? Sign me up. Plus a bonus Int or Wis to AC and Weapon Finesse. And a bonus Cha or Wis to Initiative. EDIT: Whoops, I forgot another rather important thing: If you can manage the prereqs, Kenshin also likes Master of Nine to make up for lost maneuvers. Plus he gets more maneuvers readied.
KLGChaos 11-15-07, 10:00 AM	Not sure how you'd implement Naruto in Rokugan, especially using D&D rules. You might be better off with BESM, which allows for much greater customization, and even gives rules for building classes thanks to the point system. You could use Special Attack to create jutsus like the Chidori (with the disabilities of melee range and uses energy/limited shots per day to boost its damage, or the Rasengan (with melee disability, maybe a unique disability that requires a concentration check to maintain it due to its difficulty to control). You could even take unusual regular specials and pass them off as Kekkai Genkai, though these are supposed to be rare in the Naruto world.
Mindolin 11-15-07, 12:02 PM	Actually I just use spells for jutsu, the martial manuevers for Taijutsu, and home brew feats for Kekkai Genkai
The_Shaman 11-15-07, 07:35 PM	Not sure how you'd implement Naruto in Rokugan, especially using D&D rules. You might be better off with BESM, which allows for much greater customization, and even gives rules for building classes thanks to the point system. Didn't we, kinda, cover this before? Naruto society and Rokugani society are way too different. Go around calling yourself a ninja in Rokugan and see how long you last - especially with all those flashy moves. If you want to try adapting it to d20, the psionic Naruto builds are a great place to start. If I wanted to try to make semi-supernatural ninjas myself, I'd look at swordsages or, even better, psy-rogues. BTW, there was a Naruto d20 project, iirc based off d20 modern. Their Handbook should be around, so try googling it.
KLGChaos 11-16-07, 10:03 AM	Didn't we, kinda, cover this before? Naruto society and Rokugani society are way too different. Go around calling yourself a ninja in Rokugan and see how long you last - especially with all those flashy moves. If you want to try adapting it to d20, the psionic Naruto builds are a great place to start. If I wanted to try to make semi-supernatural ninjas myself, I'd look at swordsages or, even better, psy-rogues. BTW, there was a Naruto d20 project, iirc based off d20 modern. Their Handbook should be around, so try googling it. Yeah, it was covered, but I just thought I'd reiterate the point. :P Rokugani society is based on Law and Order... ninjas are naturally deceptive and sneaky, so they're shunned.
kaibrightwin 11-17-07, 12:17 PM	that funny more than half of the sciopon clan are ninja even the head of the clan is so is the wife.
KLGChaos 11-17-07, 12:42 PM	that funny more than half of the sciopon clan are ninja even the head of the clan is so is the wife. And the Scorpion clan is distrusted and shunned. :)
The_Shaman 11-17-07, 07:47 PM	Of course, you don't say that the Scorpion clan has ninjas... It is so very impolite :)
narukagami 11-17-07, 08:13 PM	Don't forget thats all also metagame knowledge. In the actual game world no one but the Scorpion Clan ninjas know they exist.
The_Shaman 11-17-07, 08:52 PM	Hmm, I'd have thought quite a few people do, or at least suspect. It would likely be a knowledge (local) check against DC 15 or lower - it's an entire sub-family, for crying out loud.
Ikyotojin 11-17-07, 09:13 PM	I have some Naruto type NPCs... They are a troop of halflings wearing curse boots of springing and striding. They are unable to control their emotions (always over react to EVERYTHING) and think they are powerful ninja. Their "powers" are illusions created by the boots that only they can see, and only when they yell the name of the spell like power at the top of their lungs. Makes for some great looks on PC faces when they come bouncing through town yelling and generally acting stupid. They make great distractions for the REAL ninja who planted the boots on them. :)
narukagami 11-17-07, 10:07 PM	Hmm, I'd have thought quite a few people do, or at least suspect. It would likely be a knowledge (local) check against DC 15 or lower - it's an entire sub-family, for crying out loud. Well of course everyone knows the people exist, but no one is aware they are ninja. The ninja thing is metagame knowledge. As with alot of things in Rokugan, it may seem incredibly obvious, but the Rokugani people are totally oblivious. Its bad writing, honestly. The entire Scorpion clan is filled with all this manipulation, deception, and dishonor that to you and I are very well aware exists, but we're expected to believe the people of the Legend of the Five Rings world are completely and utterly oblivious to all of it.
Rogue Elendae 11-19-07, 02:18 AM	Truth be told, from what I've gathered playing L5R (not OA, mind you, I'm talking genuine L5R), and reading into things, the actual part of the Scorpion Clan's deception that the people don't know about is that they're actually sacrificing their honor for the good of the Empire. People assume you're a sneaky cuss the minute they find out your from a Scorpion Clan family, simply because everyone in Rokugan has only been allowed to see that they are willing to be ruthless, deceptive, etc. Indeed, most Scorpions seem to relish it. The part that goes unnoticed is the fact that they are what's called "The Underhand of the Emperor," and deal with the problems that the Emperor can't have addressed publicly, through subtle methods and even assassinations. To do so, they've effectively sacrificed their honor, because no one will recognize their honorable deeds under the pall of the image they project. Further, only one family (Shosuro) have a shinobi school. And no one ever thinks of associating them with "ninja" because it's a term reserved for the Goju family of the Shadowlands (now called the "Spider Clan," IIRC), and their assassins. Shosuro shinobi consider this association dishonorable and insulting to their school. And now I think I'll quit being an L5R elitist :embarrass and just mention to the OP that I personally don't see why or how one can fit anime into D&D, simply because no matter what I've seen, trying to emulate any anime character's powers (especially something like DBZ) simply causes an over-power when you try to layer on every aspect of it. Even simply emulating a race like Saiyajin or Namekuseijin seems like it'd be ugly and have some sort of monstrous LA, simply because both races have far too many potent innate abilities. For goodness sake, Namekuseijin can essentially clone themselves, never mind regenerating whole limbs. Still, if you want to go for it, more power to ya. You've got guts. Still, I'll honestly say that it doesn't sound feasible to me, and I'd steer you toward BESM 3rd ed. It's much better for melding the various abilities together on a single-character basis, rather than having to construct a whole separate race that might be overpowered against that poor person trying to play an Elf, plus it has room for much higher power games. The average point buy for character creation in a baseline (exceptional human level) BESM game is around 300 points...and it can get up to like 1000+ for high-power campaigns involving things like DBZ.
Mindolin 11-19-07, 11:15 AM	Actually, for the Saiyans and Namekians, I think the average level adjustment is about 4, with 2 HD. The actual Saiyan or Namekian race themselves aren't that powerful, it's that the Saiyans have fought since childhood, and thus have enough levels to justify them in the Forgotten Realms, and the Namekian thing for cloning themselves is a plot device, or a spell they learn. It's not quite accurate to the anime, but I've even managed to make Naruto's Shadow Clone Jutsu. Summon Monster V, summoning 1d4+1 3rd level versions of himself. Use the Past Life special ability from DMGII, and you can easily make him as a low level NPC.
DarthVicious074 11-20-07, 03:23 PM	Probably Taboo to do so, but I'd recommend checking out BESM (Big Eyes Small Mouth), which an RPG that is all about Anime. It is in the D20 format and it might take some getting used with all the different gaming mechanics, but thoroughly enjoyable. But if you're not into it, or insist on D&D, I'd recommend that you do some serious multi-classing.
Mindolin 11-20-07, 04:22 PM	Yeah, multiclassing is heavily encouraged, and the NPCs are multiclassed as well. Later on we might go Gestalt, as the PCs didn't get the hint about multiclassing.
Rogue Elendae 11-20-07, 09:22 PM	Probably Taboo to do so, but I'd recommend checking out BESM (Big Eyes Small Mouth), which an RPG that is all about Anime. It is in the D20 format and it might take some getting used with all the different gaming mechanics, but thoroughly enjoyable. But if you're not into it, or insist on D&D, I'd recommend that you do some serious multi-classing. :rolleyes: Actually, I also mentioned that BESM might be a better solution, not only given its anime basis, but also its propensity for high power-levels in the game, and its completely customizable character creation rules. Personally, I'd never recommend the d20 version (it blows serious chow, in my opinion, as the regular BESM rules don't mesh well with the particular brand of d20 rules they were using), but the current 3rd edition rules are quite easy to grasp, and very versatile. I've used it for creating everything from AU WWII mecha jockeys to modern SWAT-type characters, and I've seen what can be done at the higher power levels (most of the stuff I've done is in the limits of the "exceptional human" sort of power level, at a 300-ish point buy, rather than the 1000+ that it can go to at its highest), though I've never tried it. Heck, I could see most of this even fitting in a modified Shadowrun game, as any of these concepts could be created through judicious use of Adepts and possibly Mages, or even certain aspects of a bioware-boosted human. Anyway, given that the PCs apparently haven't taken the hint to multiclass, according to the OP's latest post...I'd say it wouldn't be out of line to perhaps propose to them that they can, or that they should, given what you've said. Maybe give them the option (unless you've already started play) to retool with this in mind, or offer the Gestalt option? It seems you're expecting it to be necessary...perhaps you didn't make this point clear to them before they started character creation? At that, did you have any particular classes in mind that you wanted them to employ? Given the concepts you're working with, it looks like Monk, Rogue, and Ninja probably have priority, along with some sort of caster class (you mentioned something about the jutsu being created through spells?)...I kinda feel like there's so little info being given here, so I don't have a clue how much detail has been put into this already. Do you have any posts in other boards regarding your Saiyajin/Namekuseijin races, or your concepts for the Naruto-style ninjas? It might help make things a little easier if there was more than just your sort of open-ended "ideas for how to drop Naruto-esque concepts into Rokugan" request.
DarthVicious074 11-25-07, 07:52 PM	True, I started with the Tri-system, or as my friends and I called it, the 3D6 system. I prefer it to the D20 system. Although the D20 system is fine for people unfamiliar with anything but the D20 system.
Meijin 02-02-08, 02:26 PM	I tried BESM d20 once. Then I went back to DnD. The characters in BESM were just way to powerful. I like the build mentioned before for Kenshin and for Naruto the psionic builds listed in another thread. I'm currently trying to make a character based on Genjo Sanzo from Saiyuki and was wondering if anyone had any suggestions.
Netjack 02-19-08, 03:54 PM	CHAKRA in naruto, they might as well just start explaining it like this. Chakra is another word for magic. DNA SPLICING NO JITSU! DBZ? Try setting the bar at just DB. Inanycase, you could do it some what. Just don't except to be anywhere near those shows power levels, they are way over 9000 "couldn't resist".
Mindolin 02-19-08, 06:04 PM	Actually, beginning Dragon Ball Z, up to the end of the Vegeta Saga, was around level 20-22. Gohan at the time of the Vegeta fight would have been around level 12-14. This is taken from the fact that the only reason Gohan let the T-Rex live was because killing him would have made the meat spoil, and make Gohan work harder at surviving out in the wilderness. The T-Rex is about CR 9-10, so it fits that Gohan was 2-5 levels above him. Now, at the time of the fight against the Saiyans, Gohan was at approxemetely the power level of Radditz, which would have put Radditz at about level 14, an extremely tough fight for Goku and Piccollo, who would have been at about level 10 at that point, with Goku having a slightly higher power level, meaning that he had slightly more experience points. At the fight between Goku and Vegeta, I see Vegeta at about level 20-21, and Goku at level 22-23.