Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Khazzan 10-25-07, 03:00 PM	(oops misspelled "conventions"....) does anyone have any good book or online suggestions for creating interesting, meaningful Asian names? I mean Japanese, Chinese, Hindi, etc... for characters, places, items and so forth. I assume there are some websites around but I wanted to see if any of you knew of any particular good ones. Thanks!
narukagami 10-25-07, 11:42 PM	The problem with those sites is they're usually total junk. And the rare few good ones are geared towards modern naming conventions, which are usually quite different than archaic naming conventions. I'm no expert on Chinese, Hindi, Thai, Korean, ect stuff, so I'll just feed you what I know. :P In old Japan, adult "given" names were usually made by taking characters from a relative's (usually father or grandfather) name, or, from someone you serve under and hold great respect for. Thats why through history you get family lines containing people with really similar names. For example, lets say your character's grandfather is named Yoshihune. Your character would probably take the "Yoshi" or "hune" character from his name, becoming something like "Yoshi(something)" or "(something)hune". For our example, lets say your character went with "Yoshitora". Yoshitora's grandfather, Yoshihune, got his name from taking a character from his father, Mifune (hu and fu are the same character/sound in Japanese). So the family line goes Mifune -> Yoshihune -> Yoshitora. Does that make sense? I'm kind of tired and don't feel like elaborating more on it right now...
Thakowsaizmu 10-26-07, 01:32 AM	Shouldn't "Yoshihune" be Yoshibune? Also, if you can find some thing about Korean names (Or if I find it I'll share), that may give you a few good ideas about how to name a character. Korean names are made up of Familial, Generational and Personal names. It is rather interesting, and leads to many Koreans having very similar names.
narukagami 10-26-07, 10:32 AM	Shouldn't "Yoshihune" be Yoshibune? No, because hu is a completely different sound than bu, unlike hu and fu.
Khazzan 10-26-07, 01:54 PM	thanks for the information, narukagami. i didn't know that's how names were "carried on" in a familial way. kind of interesting, indeed. :)
Thakowsaizmu 10-26-07, 02:36 PM	No, because hu is a completely different sound than bu, unlike hu and fu. Actually it isn't. "Bu" ぶ is a voiced "hu" ふ. I believe in the example above that sequencial voicing would take place. Same reason that "Oo" 大 plus "Kami" 神 becomes "Oogami" 大神, or "Naka" 中 plus "Ta" 田 becomes "Nakada" 中田. Not the same reason "Ken" 拳 plus "Hou" 法 becomes "Kempo" 拳法 though.
Hsien 10-26-07, 06:27 PM	Are you looking for real names or character names? both? There are plenty of online dictionaries that you can type in to get translations, can't vouch for accuracy but the few I checked seemed ok. That way you can create names that "mean" what you want. I've used that for several characters and all of my Shar Pei's. For strictly real names the above guidance is good and for base names, go historical. Chinese novel Three Kingdoms has plenty of people to start from and emmulate for example. Japan is of course filled with family histories, esp of the Shogunate era. For less historical thereare manga/anime references. The only caution I would suggest, for characters/pets would to make it something you and others can easily pronounce. Characters because otherwise they will make up a name for you. Dog names ( for better training reasons) should not be more then 2 syllables and if possible end in a soft vowel sound.
narukagami 10-26-07, 07:53 PM	Actually it isn't. "Bu" ぶ is a voiced "hu" ふ. I believe in the example above that sequencial voicing would take place. Same reason that "Oo" 大 plus "Kami" 神 becomes "Oogami" 大神, or "Naka" 中 plus "Ta" 田 becomes "Nakada" 中田. Not the same reason "Ken" 拳 plus "Hou" 法 becomes "Kempo" 拳法 though. Further research shows the quoted text to be correct. :P
ArcTan 10-27-07, 03:10 AM	Are you looking for real names or character names? both? There are plenty of online dictionaries that you can type in to get translations, can't vouch for accuracy but the few I checked seemed ok. That way you can create names that "mean" what you want. Of course, this will not create "authentic"-sounding names, which is a much harder process. A Chinese speaker could easily use an English dictionary and figure out that he could make a character named Courageous Warrior-Hero whose friends call him "Coury" for short. That doesn't mean he's created a real English name, though.
Hsien 10-27-07, 01:48 PM	Of course, this will not create "authentic"-sounding names, which is a much harder process. A Chinese speaker could easily use an English dictionary and figure out that he could make a character named Courageous Warrior-Hero whose friends call him "Coury" for short. That doesn't mean he's created a real English name, though. Actually it could, but that really depends on the person and their knowledge. That is why I asked what was the use real or character; because yes making a "real" name should be carefully considered. Since it's in this forum, I assume it's for character/ game use in which case it's very easy to come up with names using those resources. Whether or not is sounds "authentic" depends on the audience, and unfortunately most of my friends would have no idea if a name was real or not, just how hard is it to pronounce in the game.
Khazzan 10-27-07, 10:37 PM	Actually it could, but that really depends on the person and their knowledge. That is why I asked what was the use real or character; because yes making a "real" name should be carefully considered. Since it's in this forum, I assume it's for character/ game use in which case it's very easy to come up with names using those resources. Whether or not is sounds "authentic" depends on the audience, and unfortunately most of my friends would have no idea if a name was real or not, just how hard is it to pronounce in the game. Yes, that's what I meant.... more along the lines of authentic sounding Asian names (authentic to my Western ears, I suppose) for characters and place-names/locations in our latest game.
Aleolus 10-30-07, 12:19 PM	(oops misspelled "conventions"....) does anyone have any good book or online suggestions for creating interesting, meaningful Asian names? I mean Japanese, Chinese, Hindi, etc... for characters, places, items and so forth. I assume there are some websites around but I wanted to see if any of you knew of any particular good ones. Thanks! Actually, everyone, he's asking for a book to look up and read for names, and I would have to recommend Gary Gygax's Extraordinary Book of Names. It has examples of different names from everywhere in the world, from China to Japan, to Africa, to England, to Scotland, to Australia!
Rogue Elendae 10-30-07, 10:17 PM	Also keep in mind that common Japanese names often end in "-ko," and "-me," for girls (there's one other ending syllable, but I can't remember it), and "-ro," "-suke," and yet another syllable I can't remember for boys--I think it was "-ki," however (I spent time in Japan when I was a lot younger, and was friends with a boy named Naoki), or it might be "hito/hiko"...my memory's a bit spotty. For example, a firstborn boy might be named "Ichiro," or "Hiro," as names for boys were often in birth order (you might be given a different name at adulthood, especially if you were a boy), where a girl might be named something like "Haruko" or "Yukiko." Names in Japanese often have meanings; Yukiko means "snow child," for instance. Particularly, those ending syllables have meanings--"ko" means child, "me" means beautiful, "ro" means son. But these conventions aren't always adhered to; there's plenty of names that break them, like "Shun," "Midori," "Ran," "Aya," or "Sho." Also, it seems that many Japanese names aren't more than 3 or occasionally 4 syllables (the longest average name I've seen is "Ryunosuke" or "Hirohito," at 4 syllables each). One place I'd recommend, even though it's not always accurate on its translations and etymologies, is www.behindthename.com. It has a pretty decent selection of name meanings in Chinese, Japanese, and various other Asian languages. Like I said, some of their translations might be a bit spotty, but it's not bad. Also, do recall that my memory's not perfect on this subject, I'm just going by what I remember from personal experience and a bit of reading into the subject. Take what you will from what I suggest.
narukagami 10-30-07, 11:05 PM	Also keep in mind that common Japanese names often end in "-ko," and "-me," for girls (there's one other ending syllable, but I can't remember it), and "-ro," "-suke," and yet another syllable I can't remember for boys--I think it was "-ki," however (I spent time in Japan when I was a lot younger, and was friends with a boy named Naoki), or it might be "hito/hiko"...my memory's a bit spotty. Despite it coincidently happening that way in some cases in history, thats actually a modern practice. For example, a firstborn boy might be named "Ichiro," or "Hiro," as names for boys were often in birth order (you might be given a different name at adulthood, especially if you were a boy), where a girl might be named something like "Haruko" or "Yukiko." If you were of a noble family, replace "might be given" with "will be given". As well as additional things tacked on to your name through your life for various reasons. Some prominent nobles during the Heian era had really, really, really long full names, but historians commonly refer to them by "Familyname Givenname" because its easier. You might even totally change your name at some point to signify a new position, or a promotion. Japanese naming practices can be frustrating from a historian's standpoint. :P Names in Japanese often have meanings; Yukiko means "snow child," for instance. Particularly, those ending syllables have meanings--"ko" means child, "me" means beautiful, "ro" means son. But these conventions aren't always adhered to; there's plenty of names that break them, like "Shun," "Midori," "Ran," "Aya," or "Sho." Also, it seems that many Japanese names aren't more than 3 or occasionally 4 syllables (the longest average name I've seen is "Ryunosuke" or "Hirohito," at 4 syllables each). The meanings of the names depend entirely on what kanji are used. "Ko", I believe, can have a few different meanings, for example. I remember two girls I met a long time ago who had the same name but their names had different meanings because they used different kanji. One place I'd recommend, even though it's not always accurate on its translations and etymologies, is www.behindthename.com. It has a pretty decent selection of name meanings in Chinese, Japanese, and various other Asian languages. Like I said, some of their translations might be a bit spotty, but it's not bad. Also, do recall that my memory's not perfect on this subject, I'm just going by what I remember from personal experience and a bit of reading into the subject. Take what you will from what I suggest. Its not a bad resource, but its scope is limited to modern conventions. As well as, of course, not taking into account the different meanings, in some cases, of Asian names.
Rogue Elendae 10-31-07, 01:38 AM	True, there's a lot of different meanings to a single syllable or word in Japanese, depending on the kanji (or kana, or what have you; the messy part of having multiple writing styles/characters:P ); heck, I remember never seeing dishes sold in sets of four in Japan, and hearing that it was because one of the words for "four" is a different kanji but the same word for "death." I was more pointing it out as the common meanings and practices with modern names. It's about all I really know about the subject...'Baachan wasn't exactly forthcoming with teaching me Japanese growing up :weep: , even though she did teach me plenty about the culture and customs. That means a lot of what I know of language and naming conventions comes from anime, manga, books, and a bit of research on my part. And yeah, I'll agree...names in Japanese history are a pain in the tail. People put on new names quite often, not just in the sense of being given a name on reaching majority--didn't Musashi change his name completely? Never mind the fact that you had to be in service to the Emperor to receive a family name, which usually was only given to those of samurai or noble (the two typically synonymous) birth. Not like European surnames, which often just arose out of one's profession.
The Ubbergeek 10-31-07, 01:51 AM	You do not have to be pedantic and as close to history as possible... It's a fantasy game, not an historical one. Why it is not applied to.... er... Occidental Adventures? :rolleyes:
narukagami 10-31-07, 09:49 AM	You do not have to be pedantic and as close to history as possible... It's a fantasy game, not an historical one. Why it is not applied to.... er... Occidental Adventures? :rolleyes: I'm just saying, in ancient times (a time period OA games would mirror) naming practices were different. You don't have to take it into consideration, but I'm not going to deny that information to anyone who does want that level of authenticity.
TheKeyofE 10-31-07, 11:48 AM	Fantasy Name Generator (http://rinkworks.com/namegen/) is a program I like to use. There's a pulldown menu that lets you select chinese and japanese names. It basically just jumbles random syllables together to form names that look and sound mostly correct. No name meanings, though. Perhaps use it in conjunction with behindthename.com?
Ranger REG 10-31-07, 11:34 PM	And yeah, I'll agree...names in Japanese history are a pain in the tail. People put on new names quite often, not just in the sense of being given a name on reaching majority--didn't Musashi change his name completely? Never mind the fact that you had to be in service to the Emperor to receive a family name, which usually was only given to those of samurai or noble (the two typically synonymous) birth. Not like European surnames, which often just arose out of one's profession. Well, you get a childhood name from birth until the gempukku (coming-of-age) ceremony. Even then, you could change your adult name or be granted a name from your daimyo. Takeda Harunobu changed to Takeda Shingen, even though he didn't renounced the world and become a priest.
madmonk 11-03-07, 10:20 AM	My favourite resource for names is www.behindthename.com
Lord Karsus 11-16-07, 04:46 PM	My favourite resource for names is www.behindthename.com -That is a good site...
camthalion 11-17-07, 11:34 PM	Most Korean names are made using a family name of one syllable, followed by a personal name composed (usually) of two syllables. The two syllables of the personal name will usually have meanings (sometimes with homophones you have to look at the hanja -- the chinese character -- to know which meaning is chosen). The personal names are kind of fun ... just take a couple of hanja and combine them and see how it sounds.
Ranger REG 11-18-07, 01:23 AM	Most Korean names are made using a family name of one syllable, followed by a personal name composed (usually) of two syllables. The two syllables of the personal name will usually have meanings (sometimes with homophones you have to look at the hanja -- the chinese character -- to know which meaning is chosen). The personal names are kind of fun ... just take a couple of hanja and combine them and see how it sounds. Any reason why "Yeon Gae-so-mun" would have a four-syllable full name?
camthalion 11-18-07, 08:36 PM	Any reason why "Yeon Gae-so-mun" would have a four-syllable full name? Perhaps I should have said "Most contemporary Korean names are ..." ... I'm not that clear on historical naming conventions in the various dynasties. I know of several early kings who were referred to by two syllable names (family name followed by personal name). Even today, it is unusual but not impossible to meet a Korean with a longer name, particularly if the parents have drawn on a foreign source for the name. I'll try to get around to making a list of cool Korean names and their meanings ...
Ranger REG 11-19-07, 01:55 AM	Try categorize them into two group: contemporary modern and traditional. I'm more interested in traditional since this is about Asian fantasy. I'll use the contemporary ones in d20 Modern games.
PurpleRain 11-24-07, 10:56 AM	If you want a japanese sounding name use the japanese letters. They are composed of a male and female sound in each I.E. Kah,Ki,Ku,Kay,Ko(they also have kie sound). This can work with any male sound in our language. s,sh,j,y,w,n,b. If it ends in a mi or any of these types of characters it is female. If ending in a ko type sound It is probably male. (An exception would be kokaro) Ay E O U Y kyu(or byu or whatever). I wouldn't use kyu though it means suffering, Although I guess it would be alright if it was inside the name. You can use my japanese name Daikata (Die-ka-ta) or takamichi, Vasurio, Musashi, or faybu. Good female names would be narugami, chiami, ayami, or serashuji.
Kelmourne 12-15-07, 05:58 PM	In the Oriental Adventures book there is a table of sylables commonly used in Rokugan. Just mix and match at your discretion. I created one of my favourite character's names that way. His name was Yaganati.
narukagami 12-15-07, 06:27 PM	The problem with selecting random syllables like that is you can end up with names that may sound neat, but are in reality just nonsense and/or have no meaning at all. But hey, whatever floats your boat. :P
Kelmourne 12-19-07, 08:01 PM	Names don't neede to have a meaning. Does Bob have a meaning? In the off chance that im wrong and Bob does have a meaning, does it even need one?
The Ubbergeek 12-19-07, 09:04 PM	The problem is.... OA, kara-tur and all, have no countries like India, Japan, etc.. (but yeah, somes inspired quite by...) So, copy-pasting such things may be off, like using real world occidental names in Faerun.
narukagami 12-19-07, 11:02 PM	Names don't neede to have a meaning. does anyone have any good book or online suggestions for creating interesting, meaningful Asian names? I mean Japanese, Chinese, Hindi, etc... for characters, places, items and so forth. The OP asked for real world naming conventions from real world cultures, why is everyone getting so offended from his question being answered? Normally, in a fantasy game you can call anything whatever you want if thats what floats your boat, but thats not what this thread is about. The OP wanted real, meaningful names. Does Bob have a meaning? In the off chance that im wrong and Bob does have a meaning, does it even need one? BOB Gender: Masculine Usage: English, Dutch Pronounced: BAHB (English), BAWB (Dutch) [key] Short form of ROBERT. It arose later than the medieval rhyming nicknames of Robert, Dob, Hob and Nob. ROBERT Gender: Masculine Usage: English, French, Scandinavian, German, Czech, Polish, Russian, Slovene, Romanian Other Scripts: Роберт (Russian) Pronounced: RAH-burt (English), ro-BER (French), RO-bert (German), RAW-bert (Polish), RO-byert (Russian) [key] Means "bright fame", derived from the Germanic elements hrod "fame" and beraht "bright". The Normans introduced this name to Britain. It belonged to three kings of Scotland, including Robert the Bruce who restored the independence of Scotland from England in the 14th century. The author Robert Browning and poets Robert Burns and Robert Frost are famous literary bearers of this name. Also, Robert E. Lee was the commander of the Confederate army during the American Civil War. All names in all cultures have a meaning, or are derived from something of meaning. Thats just how names work and have worked since they began to exist. In the context of a fantasy game or story, those made up names are derived from some sort of language within the fantasy world. But again, while fantasy naming conventions are all well and good, the OP asked for something derived from the real world.
Ranger REG 12-20-07, 01:49 AM	In the Oriental Adventures book there is a table of sylables commonly used in Rokugan. Just mix and match at your discretion. I created one of my favourite character's names that way. His name was Yaganati. What does Yaganati means? One hopes it's not a female body part. OR worse. You did some foul deed that the emperor decided to rename all latrines "Yaganati," like Prince John in Robin Hood: Men in Tight. :evillaugh
Kelmourne 12-20-07, 06:58 PM	What does Yaganati mean? Doesn't need a meaning.
Ranger REG 12-20-07, 09:32 PM	Doesn't need a meaning. So, you are "meaningless." If it fits... :devil:
Thakowsaizmu 12-24-07, 12:12 AM	ka, ki, ku, ke, ko ... Vasurio, Musashi, or faybu. Actually Vasurio and Faybu would not be good Japanese sounding names. There is no "V" in Japanese, and "F" is always followed by "u". In Japanese "F" is actually a member of the "H" family. "Y" always has to be followed by "a", "o" or "u". Also it cannot stand alone or end a cluster as you have it. Just thought I'd let you know.
narukagami 12-24-07, 12:37 AM	Actually Vasurio and Faybu would not be good Japanese sounding names. There is no "V" in Japanese, and "F" is always followed by "u". In Japanese "F" is actually a member of the "H" family. "Y" always has to be followed by "a", "o" or "u". Also it cannot stand alone or end a cluster as you have it. Just thought I'd let you know. Indeed. http://genki.japantimes.co.jp/self/site/hiragana/hiragana.html Here, use this for all your random syllable needs. For authentic names: Excerpt from the Sengoku RPG by Gold Rush Games. http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HELUFY7M Another good source for random names: http://www.bullypulpitgames.com/projects/names/japanese.pdf
Careful_Plum 12-26-07, 07:12 AM	For Chinese names (much of this information is probably available at www.behindthename.com as mentioned above): The modern conventions of monosyllabis family names and personal names with one or two syllables pretty much exists since the last two millennia. However, ancient people were usually referred to not by the name given at their birth (Ming), but by the name they assumed when coming-of-age (Zi, the equivalent of the name given at gempukku in Japan, I presume). Unlike many other languages, including Japanese, there are no conventional names at all; you can pretty much look in some online dictionary for two characters whose meaning you like and have a more or less authentic names. Some combinations of syllables sound awkward and are very rare, but it's not really possible to tell that if you don't actually speak Chinese ;-). Many families also have a traditional poem, from which successive syllables are chosen to form the first part of the given names in one generation. (For example, if the syllable is "Ren", brothers (and cousins!) in one generation might be called Renming, Renjun, Renshen... and so on). However, it is taboo to use the names of any of your relatives, ever. This goes so far that it is strictly forbidden to write the characters that make up the emperor's personal name - these characters are actually replaced by homophones in daily usage, an important way to tell when a particular text was written. The nobility of the Zhou-Dynasty (roughly, first millenia before Christ) had extremely complicated names that I'll attempt to explain if there's any interest in it... As for place names (something completely overlooked by the other posers, I would be very interested in the Japanese, or southasian practices!), these are usually made up of two syllables. Some syllables have meanings, some are only used to mark that specific place (for example, Hangzhou means "Capital of Hang Prefecture", but Hang lost its original meaning long ago). Often, part of a citys name refers to a geographical feature. I can only give some examples: -yang 陽 means "North of a River" (for example, Luoyang is north of the river Luo) -yin 陰 correspondingly is "South of a River" -zhou 州 (as in Guangzhou, Suzhou) is prefectural seat. -jing 京 and -du 都 mean Capital (as in Beijing (Northern Capital), Nanjing (Southern Capital), Tokyo ;) (Dongjing - Eastern Capital), Chengdu (City that has become the Capital), and Kyoto (Jingdu) actually combines the two...) -jiacun 家村 or -jiazhuang 家莊 means "- Family Village" (as in Shijiazhuang, Shi Family Village). Cun and Zhuang just mean village and might also occur.
narukagami 12-26-07, 02:51 PM	For Chinese names (much of this information is probably available at www.behindthename.com as mentioned above): The modern conventions of monosyllabis family names and personal names with one or two syllables pretty much exists since the last two millennia. However, ancient people were usually referred to not by the name given at their birth (Ming), but by the name they assumed when coming-of-age (Zi, the equivalent of the name given at gempukku in Japan, I presume). Unlike many other languages, including Japanese, there are no conventional names at all; you can pretty much look in some online dictionary for two characters whose meaning you like and have a more or less authentic names. Some combinations of syllables sound awkward and are very rare, but it's not really possible to tell that if you don't actually speak Chinese ;-). Many families also have a traditional poem, from which successive syllables are chosen to form the first part of the given names in one generation. (For example, if the syllable is "Ren", brothers (and cousins!) in one generation might be called Renming, Renjun, Renshen... and so on). However, it is taboo to use the names of any of your relatives, ever. This goes so far that it is strictly forbidden to write the characters that make up the emperor's personal name - these characters are actually replaced by homophones in daily usage, an important way to tell when a particular text was written. The nobility of the Zhou-Dynasty (roughly, first millenia before Christ) had extremely complicated names that I'll attempt to explain if there's any interest in it... Thats some good stuff right there. As for place names (something completely overlooked by the other posers, I would be very interested in the Japanese, or southasian practices!), these are usually made up of two syllables. Some syllables have meanings, some are only used to mark that specific place (for example, Hangzhou means "Capital of Hang Prefecture", but Hang lost its original meaning long ago). Often, part of a citys name refers to a geographical feature. I can only give some examples: -yang 陽 means "North of a River" (for example, Luoyang is north of the river Luo) -yin 陰 correspondingly is "South of a River" -zhou 州 (as in Guangzhou, Suzhou) is prefectural seat. -jing 京 and -du 都 mean Capital (as in Beijing (Northern Capital), Nanjing (Southern Capital), Tokyo ;) (Dongjing - Eastern Capital), Chengdu (City that has become the Capital), and Kyoto (Jingdu) actually combines the two...) -jiacun 家村 or -jiazhuang 家莊 means "- Family Village" (as in Shijiazhuang, Shi Family Village). Cun and Zhuang just mean village and might also occur. Place names... oops. :doh: I have no definitive sources on the practices of naming locations in Japan. But through observation it seems as if they use the same conventions you have here from China, but the characters are read differently, of course.
Kineon_War 12-28-07, 08:19 AM	Some useful links for naming Oriental characters: Korean names: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_name List of Korean surnames: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Korean_surnames Japanese Names: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_name There are also links to Chinese, Vietnamese and Mongolian names on these pages.
RoyalBlueEyes 01-10-08, 11:39 PM	If I may interject with the continuance of an idea let on by posters on page one. Allow me an example of Familial naming in Japan, starring: The Yagyu Clan. Yagyu Sekishusai Muneyoshi Yagyu Munenori Yagyu Jubei Mitsuyoshi - Yagyu Matajuro - Yagyu Munefuryu In three instances, the offspring took their names from Sekishusai's. What the Hell happened to Matajuro, you ask? He's a freak. No. Who knows.