Books on South East Asian History [Archive] - Wizards Community

Books on South East Asian History [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LuckyDragon
03-04-07, 10:33 AM Anyone know of some good academic books on South east asian history. I am making a campaign based on the Thai and Khmer peoples. Looking for reliable, historically accurate material. The capmaign is not going to be a historical setting. It will be a fantasy world, where the two major powers are based on the Thai and the Khmer. However, I am want to research Southeast Asian history and get the most accurate accounts of it to help inform my campaign creation. I am also thinking of having ogres and monkey men play a prominent role in the game (a homage to the Ramakien[ramayana]). The only books I have so far are:

1) South east Asia: A concise history. By Mary Somers Heidhues
2) A Short History of Thailand. by David K. Wyatt
3) A History of Thailand. By Chris Baker and Pasuk Phongpaichit.

Also, trying to make a monster based on crocodile, that is a little more scary (will be a prominent menace in campaign). Any ideas?
GoriceXII
03-04-07, 06:00 PM I'm afraid I don't offhand, however have you tried looking through Wikipedia? They always have a good bibliography attached to their sections and that might help.

I really encourage you to have a good time with this--great people, great region to be inspired by. A few suggestions:

1. Nagas could be interesting as guardians of wisdom and treasure, also as villains.

2. Village spirits called Nats would be interesting to bring into play as means for adventures to happen.

3. I'd be inclined to make the crocodile some kind of demigod almost. Crocodiles in SE Asia seem ambivalent to me, almost Loki like figures.

4. Forest spirits also would probably be important. Bamboo groves, rivers, certain hills and mountains might likely have prominent spirits.
Bullshido
03-04-07, 06:09 PM I'm afraid I don't offhand, however have you tried looking through Wikipedia? They always have a good bibliography attached to their sections and that might help.

I really encourage you to have a good time with this--great people, great region to be inspired by. A few suggestions:

1. Nagas could be interesting as guardians of wisdom and treasure, also as villains.

2. Village spirits called Nats would be interesting to bring into play as means for adventures to happen.

3. I'd be inclined to make the crocodile some kind of demigod almost. Crocodiles in SE Asia seem ambivalent to me, almost Loki like figures.

4. Forest spirits also would probably be important. Bamboo groves, rivers, certain hills and mountains might likely have prominent spirits.

I have some books on Thai Myth. I will dig them out for you.
LuckyDragon
03-04-07, 06:11 PM I'm afraid I don't offhand, however have you tried looking through Wikipedia? They always have a good bibliography attached to their sections and that might help.

I really encourage you to have a good time with this--great people, great region to be inspired by. A few suggestions:

1. Nagas could be interesting as guardians of wisdom and treasure, also as villains.

2. Village spirits called Nats would be interesting to bring into play as means for adventures to happen.

3. I'd be inclined to make the crocodile some kind of demigod almost. Crocodiles in SE Asia seem ambivalent to me, almost Loki like figures.

4. Forest spirits also would probably be important. Bamboo groves, rivers, certain hills and mountains might likely have prominent spirits.

Thanks for the great ideas. From what little I understand about the area, they have fused very orthodox Buddhism with native folk beliefs (like the forest spirits you mentioned). I am trying to find an interesting way to do this. The Buddhism part is especially difficult. I do not want to use Buddhism itself, but I need to make a religion that is modelled after it. The cleric class does not seem to capture what Buddhist monks would be about. I also do not want to force players to take a prestige class to be buddhist monks. I want to make, or find a core class that is suitable (I dont think PHB monk does it either). Any ideas on this one?
GoriceXII
03-04-07, 08:21 PM Use something roughly similar but say that it is a set of teachings or devotions not apart from the native beliefs perhaps. Use a figure or set of figures as the legendary teachers. When it comes down to it that is what Buddhism really is after all. Taoist influences might help too.
LuckyDragon
03-04-07, 08:36 PM Use something roughly similar but say that it is a set of teachings or devotions not apart from the native beliefs perhaps. Use a figure or set of figures as the legendary teachers. When it comes down to it that is what Buddhism really is after all. Taoist influences might help too.

I plan on doing something along those lines. But I intend to avoid Taoism. As far as I know, Taoism has not been as influential in Cambodia and Thailand as it has in east asian countries.
GoriceXII
03-04-07, 08:46 PM I don't think they did either, but what I meant is that Taoism is not a religion in the usual sense but rather an approach to thought and mystical wisdom according to some traditions.
Occam
03-05-07, 06:48 PM Thanks for the great ideas. From what little I understand about the area, they have fused very orthodox Buddhism with native folk beliefs (like the forest spirits you mentioned). I am trying to find an interesting way to do this. The Buddhism part is especially difficult. I do not want to use Buddhism itself, but I need to make a religion that is modelled after it. The cleric class does not seem to capture what Buddhist monks would be about. I also do not want to force players to take a prestige class to be buddhist monks. I want to make, or find a core class that is suitable (I dont think PHB monk does it either). Any ideas on this one?

If you have or can get it, the yogi from The Complete Guide to Rakshasas may serve your purpose. Mechanically, they're based on bards (divine casters using up to 6th-level spells, similar spell progression), but their special abilities are based on Concentration instead of Perform, and they involve a bit of martial arts (but not to the extent of the monk) and ascetic qualities (holding one's breath, resistance to pain, etc.).
Bullshido
03-06-07, 09:28 AM I have a book on elephants in Thai myth. I will dig it up and post the title. You might find it useful (though it may be out of print).
Teiresias
03-12-07, 09:16 AM Anyone know of some good academic books on South east asian history. I am making a campaign based on the Thai and Khmer peoples. Looking for reliable, historically accurate material. The capmaign is not going to be a historical setting. It will be a fantasy world, where the two major powers are based on the Thai and the Khmer. However, I am want to research Southeast Asian history and get the most accurate accounts of it to help inform my campaign creation. I am also thinking of having ogres and monkey men play a prominent role in the game (a homage to the Ramakien[ramayana]). The only books I have so far are:

1) South east Asia: A concise history. By Mary Somers Heidhues
2) A Short History of Thailand. by David K. Wyatt
3) A History of Thailand. By Chris Baker and Pasuk Phongpaichit.

Also, trying to make a monster based on crocodile, that is a little more scary (will be a prominent menace in campaign). Any ideas?

I may be able to help.

You've made a good start with your three choices. Here are a few others:

A good introductory work:

Robbins Burling, "Hill Farms and Paddy Fields"

The canon for Southeast Asian history starts with three excellent--incredibly dry--works:

G. Coedes, "The Making of Southeast Asia"
G. Coedes, "The Indianized States of Southeast Asia"
D.G.E. Hall, "A History of Southeast Asia"

With those as a background--assuming you survive the dessication that may result from reading them--you might look at the following works to get the real flavor of the everyday life:

Anthony Reid, "Southeast Asia in the Age of Commerce" (get both volumes, they are essential reading for what your are trying to do)
Anthony Reid, "Southeast Asia in the Early Modern Era: Trade, Power & Belief" (this is excellent, and although it probably is too late period-wise, lots of regional flavor)

A few of the definitive anthropological works, especially for Buddhism and animist background:

M Spiro, "Burmese Supernaturalism"
S Yoe, "The Burman: His Life and Notions"
C Geertz, "Negara: The Theatre State in 19th Century Bali"
S.J. Tambiah, "Buddhism and the Spirit Cults in Northeast Thailand"
S.J. Tambiah, "The Buddhist Saints of the Forest and the Cult of Amulets"
S.J. Tambiah, "World Conqueror and World Renouncer"

For Thailand specifically:

Potter, "Family Life in a Modern Thai Village"
Reynolds & Reynolds, eds., "Three Worlds According to King Ruang" (essential mythology)
Charnvit Kasetsiri, "The Rise of Ayuthaya" (one of my favorites)

Well, that should keep you busy, provide a good grounding in Southeast Asian history--and show you were you can find more, while giving you tons of background material for every facet of your campaign.

One question: How can I get in on the game? :)
Ryuu_Tenshi
03-21-07, 02:42 PM I don't know if you count Korea as part of Southeast Asia, but there is a book called "Sources of Korean Tradition: volume 1, origins to 1600" which you should look into. It's part of a series that also has China and Japan, and it's an excellent source, covering mythology, culture, and Japan and China's influences on Korea.

I'm not sure about the rest of southeast asia, however.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LuckyDragon 03-04-07, 10:33 AM	Anyone know of some good academic books on South east asian history. I am making a campaign based on the Thai and Khmer peoples. Looking for reliable, historically accurate material. The capmaign is not going to be a historical setting. It will be a fantasy world, where the two major powers are based on the Thai and the Khmer. However, I am want to research Southeast Asian history and get the most accurate accounts of it to help inform my campaign creation. I am also thinking of having ogres and monkey men play a prominent role in the game (a homage to the Ramakien[ramayana]). The only books I have so far are: 1) South east Asia: A concise history. By Mary Somers Heidhues 2) A Short History of Thailand. by David K. Wyatt 3) A History of Thailand. By Chris Baker and Pasuk Phongpaichit. Also, trying to make a monster based on crocodile, that is a little more scary (will be a prominent menace in campaign). Any ideas?
GoriceXII 03-04-07, 06:00 PM	I'm afraid I don't offhand, however have you tried looking through Wikipedia? They always have a good bibliography attached to their sections and that might help. I really encourage you to have a good time with this--great people, great region to be inspired by. A few suggestions: 1. Nagas could be interesting as guardians of wisdom and treasure, also as villains. 2. Village spirits called Nats would be interesting to bring into play as means for adventures to happen. 3. I'd be inclined to make the crocodile some kind of demigod almost. Crocodiles in SE Asia seem ambivalent to me, almost Loki like figures. 4. Forest spirits also would probably be important. Bamboo groves, rivers, certain hills and mountains might likely have prominent spirits.
Bullshido 03-04-07, 06:09 PM	I'm afraid I don't offhand, however have you tried looking through Wikipedia? They always have a good bibliography attached to their sections and that might help. I really encourage you to have a good time with this--great people, great region to be inspired by. A few suggestions: 1. Nagas could be interesting as guardians of wisdom and treasure, also as villains. 2. Village spirits called Nats would be interesting to bring into play as means for adventures to happen. 3. I'd be inclined to make the crocodile some kind of demigod almost. Crocodiles in SE Asia seem ambivalent to me, almost Loki like figures. 4. Forest spirits also would probably be important. Bamboo groves, rivers, certain hills and mountains might likely have prominent spirits. I have some books on Thai Myth. I will dig them out for you.
LuckyDragon 03-04-07, 06:11 PM	I'm afraid I don't offhand, however have you tried looking through Wikipedia? They always have a good bibliography attached to their sections and that might help. I really encourage you to have a good time with this--great people, great region to be inspired by. A few suggestions: 1. Nagas could be interesting as guardians of wisdom and treasure, also as villains. 2. Village spirits called Nats would be interesting to bring into play as means for adventures to happen. 3. I'd be inclined to make the crocodile some kind of demigod almost. Crocodiles in SE Asia seem ambivalent to me, almost Loki like figures. 4. Forest spirits also would probably be important. Bamboo groves, rivers, certain hills and mountains might likely have prominent spirits. Thanks for the great ideas. From what little I understand about the area, they have fused very orthodox Buddhism with native folk beliefs (like the forest spirits you mentioned). I am trying to find an interesting way to do this. The Buddhism part is especially difficult. I do not want to use Buddhism itself, but I need to make a religion that is modelled after it. The cleric class does not seem to capture what Buddhist monks would be about. I also do not want to force players to take a prestige class to be buddhist monks. I want to make, or find a core class that is suitable (I dont think PHB monk does it either). Any ideas on this one?
GoriceXII 03-04-07, 08:21 PM	Use something roughly similar but say that it is a set of teachings or devotions not apart from the native beliefs perhaps. Use a figure or set of figures as the legendary teachers. When it comes down to it that is what Buddhism really is after all. Taoist influences might help too.
LuckyDragon 03-04-07, 08:36 PM	Use something roughly similar but say that it is a set of teachings or devotions not apart from the native beliefs perhaps. Use a figure or set of figures as the legendary teachers. When it comes down to it that is what Buddhism really is after all. Taoist influences might help too. I plan on doing something along those lines. But I intend to avoid Taoism. As far as I know, Taoism has not been as influential in Cambodia and Thailand as it has in east asian countries.
GoriceXII 03-04-07, 08:46 PM	I don't think they did either, but what I meant is that Taoism is not a religion in the usual sense but rather an approach to thought and mystical wisdom according to some traditions.
Occam 03-05-07, 06:48 PM	Thanks for the great ideas. From what little I understand about the area, they have fused very orthodox Buddhism with native folk beliefs (like the forest spirits you mentioned). I am trying to find an interesting way to do this. The Buddhism part is especially difficult. I do not want to use Buddhism itself, but I need to make a religion that is modelled after it. The cleric class does not seem to capture what Buddhist monks would be about. I also do not want to force players to take a prestige class to be buddhist monks. I want to make, or find a core class that is suitable (I dont think PHB monk does it either). Any ideas on this one? If you have or can get it, the yogi from The Complete Guide to Rakshasas may serve your purpose. Mechanically, they're based on bards (divine casters using up to 6th-level spells, similar spell progression), but their special abilities are based on Concentration instead of Perform, and they involve a bit of martial arts (but not to the extent of the monk) and ascetic qualities (holding one's breath, resistance to pain, etc.).
Bullshido 03-06-07, 09:28 AM	I have a book on elephants in Thai myth. I will dig it up and post the title. You might find it useful (though it may be out of print).
Teiresias 03-12-07, 09:16 AM	Anyone know of some good academic books on South east asian history. I am making a campaign based on the Thai and Khmer peoples. Looking for reliable, historically accurate material. The capmaign is not going to be a historical setting. It will be a fantasy world, where the two major powers are based on the Thai and the Khmer. However, I am want to research Southeast Asian history and get the most accurate accounts of it to help inform my campaign creation. I am also thinking of having ogres and monkey men play a prominent role in the game (a homage to the Ramakien[ramayana]). The only books I have so far are: 1) South east Asia: A concise history. By Mary Somers Heidhues 2) A Short History of Thailand. by David K. Wyatt 3) A History of Thailand. By Chris Baker and Pasuk Phongpaichit. Also, trying to make a monster based on crocodile, that is a little more scary (will be a prominent menace in campaign). Any ideas? I may be able to help. You've made a good start with your three choices. Here are a few others: A good introductory work: Robbins Burling, "Hill Farms and Paddy Fields" The canon for Southeast Asian history starts with three excellent--incredibly dry--works: G. Coedes, "The Making of Southeast Asia" G. Coedes, "The Indianized States of Southeast Asia" D.G.E. Hall, "A History of Southeast Asia" With those as a background--assuming you survive the dessication that may result from reading them--you might look at the following works to get the real flavor of the everyday life: Anthony Reid, "Southeast Asia in the Age of Commerce" (get both volumes, they are essential reading for what your are trying to do) Anthony Reid, "Southeast Asia in the Early Modern Era: Trade, Power & Belief" (this is excellent, and although it probably is too late period-wise, lots of regional flavor) A few of the definitive anthropological works, especially for Buddhism and animist background: M Spiro, "Burmese Supernaturalism" S Yoe, "The Burman: His Life and Notions" C Geertz, "Negara: The Theatre State in 19th Century Bali" S.J. Tambiah, "Buddhism and the Spirit Cults in Northeast Thailand" S.J. Tambiah, "The Buddhist Saints of the Forest and the Cult of Amulets" S.J. Tambiah, "World Conqueror and World Renouncer" For Thailand specifically: Potter, "Family Life in a Modern Thai Village" Reynolds & Reynolds, eds., "Three Worlds According to King Ruang" (essential mythology) Charnvit Kasetsiri, "The Rise of Ayuthaya" (one of my favorites) Well, that should keep you busy, provide a good grounding in Southeast Asian history--and show you were you can find more, while giving you tons of background material for every facet of your campaign. One question: How can I get in on the game? :)
Ryuu_Tenshi 03-21-07, 02:42 PM	I don't know if you count Korea as part of Southeast Asia, but there is a book called "Sources of Korean Tradition: volume 1, origins to 1600" which you should look into. It's part of a series that also has China and Japan, and it's an excellent source, covering mythology, culture, and Japan and China's influences on Korea. I'm not sure about the rest of southeast asia, however.