Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kevin Andrew Murphy 06-28-07, 02:35 PM	I've been running my adventurers through a mythical version of ancient China, and so far they've encountered Madame Ming, the assassin, and her friend Fu Yu, the master thief (who's recently returned masquerading as Fu* Wing, the Imperial Censor, the most dreaded man in all Cathay). Of course, I've been pulling names out of the air, sometimes puns on English homonyms, sometimes just whatever sounds good. Trouble is, my understanding of Chinese is limited to knowing that "lung" means "dragon" and a few other random phrases. So, I thought it might be entertaining/useful to assemble a glossary of names to be put together along the lines of Lady Pixie Moondrip's Random Craft Name Generator. Here's the list from Lady Pixie Moondrip of common craft name words: Wolf Raven Silver Moon Star Water Snow Sea Tree Wind Cloud Witch Thorn Leaf White Black Green Fire Rowan Swan Night Red Mist Hawk Feather Eagle Song Sky Storm Sun Here's a Chinese glossary I found: NUMBERS-COLORS Numbers Ling (Ling): 0 Yi (Yut): 1 Er (Yee): 2 San (Sam): 3 Si (Sei): 4 Wu (Um): 5 Liu (Luk): 6 Qi (Chut): 7 Ba (Baat): 8 Jiu (Gow): 9 Shi (Sup): 10 Yi Bai (Yut Baht): 100 Yi Qian (Yut Chin): 1000 555: Wu Bai Wu Shi Wu (Um Baht Um Sup Um) Colors Note: when used alone, the suffix "se" is added, i.e. baise "white." When used as an adjective, the se is not used, i.e. bai he "white crane." Bai (Baht): White He (Fei): Brown Hei (Hut): Black Hong (Hong): Red Huang (Wong): Yellow Hui (Fuey): Grey Jin (Gum): Gold Lu (Lok): Green Lan (Lam): Blue Shen (Sam): Dark Qian (Chi): Light Yin (Ahn): Silver Zi (Ji): Purple ANIMALS-DIRECTIONS Animals Bao (Pao): Panther Dayan (Dai Ahn): Wild goose Feng (Fung): Phoenix Gou (Gou): Dog Ha ma (Ching Wah): Toad He (Hoc): Crane Hou (Hou): Monkey Hu die (Wu Dip): Butterfly Ji (Gai): Rooster, chicken Lang (Lahng): Wolf Li yu (Lay Yu): Carp Long (Lung): Dragon Lu (Lop): Deer Hu (Fu): Tiger Ma (Mah): Horse Mao (Mao): Cat Pang xie (Hi): Crab Qi lin (Kay Lin): A mythical Chinese beast, part dragon, part lion Que (Yin): Sparrow She (Se): Snake Tang lang (Konglong): Mantis Xiang (Jeurng): Elephant Xiong (Hong): Bear Xie zi (She Zee): Scorpion Yan (Yin Gee): Swallow Ying (Ying): Eagle Yuan (Hsing Hsing): Ape Directions Bei (Bak): North Dong (Tung): East Hou (How): Back Nan (Lam): South Qian (Chin): Front Xi (Hsi): West You (Yao): Right Zhong (Jong): Center Zuo (Jou): Left Any thoughts on putting together a Chinese/Japanese dictionary for names, with maybe also some Korean, Thai and Vietnamese for extra flavor?
narukagami 06-28-07, 02:42 PM	Big ol' list of Japanese Names and Titles. (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HELUFY7M) (Links to Megaupload.) From the Sengoku RPG, I had to upload the PDF somewhere myself because for some reason the links no longer work on the main Sengoku site. EDIT: Forgot to congratulate you, thats a good and helpful Chinese name list.
Kevin Andrew Murphy 06-28-07, 02:48 PM	Just did a further look-up and found that "Yu" means "Fish" and is also a symbol for prosperity. So "Fu Yu" is "Tiger Fish" and besides being a pun on "Fool You" (he's a con man), is also a pretty good name for a master thief.
Hochiu 06-29-07, 10:38 AM	Very nice, it's very good to see someone giving some love to China. I've had a problem with developing Chinese names, I usually just end up making bastardised forms that would insult any linguist. But, there's a website I've been using, I don't know as to the authenticity and correctness of the words, but I'll share. One major page I've used is this one (http://lowchensaustralia.com/names/chinese.htm). The site has a number of other names in other languages too, so it may give you a good platform. Good luck, and again, nice work.
Azzy 06-29-07, 02:17 PM	Very nice, it's very good to see someone giving some love to China. I've had a problem with developing Chinese names, I usually just end up making bastardised forms that would insult any linguist. But, there's a website I've been using, I don't know as to the authenticity and correctness of the words, but I'll share. One major page I've used is this one (http://lowchensaustralia.com/names/chinese.htm). The site has a number of other names in other languages too, so it may give you a good platform. Good luck, and again, nice work. Gotta say, I'm digging this thread, too. I wish I had had a better resource for Chinese names when I was running (a very non-D&D/D20) game set in the future where the characters ran afoul of a Chinese mafia. :)
mearrin69 06-29-07, 02:34 PM	Heya, I suggest, for any naming needs, checking out one of the really big baby name books you can get these days. There's one I just saw at Barnes & Noble that had like 50k or 100k. It included Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Arabic, and many more. Excellent source for writers, DMs and others that need to pull a name from thin air pretty often. Also, I speak Chinese (Mandarin) and can verify that your word list above is pretty good. The biggest problem is the romanization (writing it phonetically in a western alphabet). The standard I use is Pin Yin, which (to me) makes the most sense (though that's how I learned it). Another common one is Wade Giles which has never made sense to me and is how people get romanizations like chang kai sheck (sorry, there's no 'sheck' in Chinese :) - maybe in three stooges, not in Chinese). Not sure what system the thing you've found but, if pronounced (by an American) as written, it wouldn't be very close to Mandarin. Thing is, if you guys don't speak Chinese it may not matter much - as long as it sounds good during play then it's good enough for the game. Have fun! M edit: sorry, meant to be specific. The pronounciations written are pin yin but the stuff in parens are strange to me. Use the first one and you should be good. Maybe the second is Cantonese (now that I look again, it could be)? Can't help you there. Cantonese sounds like mush to me (though it's mostly the same words).
Hochiu 06-29-07, 03:17 PM	Also, I just suck at creating names, period. So this list is very helpful already.
Rhialto 06-29-07, 04:02 PM	There is a Japanese word processor called JWPce. It has optional dictionary and kanji dictionary modules, and the full version (still free) of the kanji dictionary module includes the character readings for korean and Chinese too. With the aid of that program, it shouldn't be too hard to come up with almost anything. Did I mention its totally free? ETA link: http://www.physics.ucla.edu/~grosenth/jwpce.html
Kevin Andrew Murphy 06-29-07, 04:54 PM	edit: sorry, meant to be specific. The pronounciations written are pin yin but the stuff in parens are strange to me. Use the first one and you should be good. Maybe the second is Cantonese (now that I look again, it could be)? Can't help you there. Cantonese sounds like mush to me (though it's mostly the same words). I'm thinking the stuff in parens must be Cantonese too. I recognize a lot of the names (Fung especially) from Cantonese restaurants out here in California. Thanks for telling us which is Mandarin and thus which is likely Cantonese. Which do people speak in Shanghai? That's where the characters are now.
mearrin69 06-29-07, 05:08 PM	Heh, I don't know what it's 'officially' called but I've heard people say "shanghaiese". I have heard it on a tape and it just sounds like chicken to me. Now, that said, when I was in Shanghai I mostly heard people speaking Mandarin (but I think that's primarily the influence of a strong national government - I don't imagine it was this way before the second half of the last century). There are a *lot* of chinese dialects and, though they're using almost the same words, the pronunciation is so different that it's basically another language. Think American English vs. Chaucer English...you might catch a word or two here and there but most is gibberish. Dialects, though, could be done as accents. Maybe you can play that up. For instance, a Mandarin-speaking person from Beijing speaks in a very clear, clipped manner whereas one from Taiwan speaks slow and slurringly. I think you could probably get by with just one dialect and several 'accents'. In Beijing the word for yes (shi) is pronounced "sure" but in Taiwan it's more like "suh". In general Beijingers tend to throw an 'er' on the end of syllables. Um, dunno if I've explained anything clearly or if it'll be of any use to you but HTH! M Edit: Another animal for you: shu (said like shoe) is rat. So, you could say lao shu to mean old rat. Obviously, lao is old :) Oh, niao (said like meow with an n) is bird.
Zaver 06-29-07, 05:10 PM	It's a bit of a round about way to get Chinese names but aside form just using google and finding name sites, go to d-addicts.com. It's a torrent site that only hosts Chinese, Korean and Japanese drama shows. Look for any of the Wuxia period dramas and use the links to their wikis, they have character lists most of the time and you have accurate names for an old world China campaign.
Azzy 06-29-07, 10:15 PM	While it's not just Asian names, this site (http://www.behindthename.com/) has proven useful for naming characters in almost any genre.
Lord Gwydion 07-01-07, 02:12 AM	I usually either grab names from some of the books I've read (Three Kingdoms and Outlaws of the Marsh have lots of characters), grab something from either my Mandarin or Cantonese dictionaries, or grab a name from this list--> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Family_Surnames
TarlSS 07-04-07, 08:28 AM	People in Shanghai speak Shanghainese. I'm living in Shanghai now. They speak shanghainese alot, actually, especially in the service industry. Shanghainese is actually Suzhou-hua, which is an offbranch of the Wu dialect from the Wu faction of the Three Kingdoms. Yay. Shanghai only gained prominence in the 1920's, before that the major cities in the area were Suzhou and Hangzhou- the language come from there. Suzhou is where the famous silk factories have been...since silk was made. It sounds nothing like Mandarin, more like Japanese. They say things like "Samalay Samanosamaze!" which means something like "What's up?"... That said, you're not going to be able to come up with Shanghainese names. People in Shanghai have Mandarin names by law. Shanghai is a dying language, good luck on finding the translations. Even in Shanghai, there are only a few books you can learn Shanghainese with, and that's if you want to translate from Mandarin into Shanghainese. No, I don't want to do that. The words in the parenthesis are Cantonese. Most of Wade Giles is based on Cantonese pronounciation, note how Wade Giles is a British name. Jiang Jieshi is known as Chang Kai Shek in Cantonese, and Mao Tse Tung (Sounds more like Mao Jaque Dong) is Cantonese as well. This is why they called Beijing, Peking,(Sounds like Puck-ing) for all those years. That said, many Chinese names are either historical, or stupid 'phrases'. There are seriously girls named "Should Have Been a Son" or boys named "Don't Gamble" (Okay, that one might be fake). Lazy parents sometimes name their children by number. "Yi Pei" and "Ar Pei". Understandably, these individuals usually later change names. Just look up Chinese history and mix the words around. Dian Cao can become Dian Cao. Zeng Guo Feng can be Guo Feng Zeng. Switch words around! Dian Guo Zeng! Zeng Zhang Zuo! Everything goes. Worst to worst, look at employee lists for Chinese companies or schools. Chinese names haven't really changed much since the Han dynasty.
mearrin69 07-04-07, 03:12 PM	TarlSS, Must say I'm jealous. Of all the places I visited in China, Shanghai seemed like the best place to live (though, since you *actually* live there maybe you have a different perspective). Yeah, Shanghainese might as well be Klingon as far as I'm concerned. Another thing to maybe check out for oriental campaign flavor is 'wise sayings' (su hua in Mandarin). There are a million of them, akin to our 'a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush' sort of thing. I like 'ban men nong fu', which means 'to practice axemanship in the dooryard of master axeman Liu Ban (show off to someone who's better than you). I can imagine some monk saying this before he kicks an uppity PCs butt. Not sure where you can look these up but I bet there's something online. I have a book of them but they're in Chinese. M
Kevin Andrew Murphy 07-05-07, 04:40 AM	I remember a friend from Hong Kong told me a proverb "You can always tell a horse by its feet or a fox by its tail" which he explained not only referred to regular animals and by extension people not being able to disguise their true nature, but that fox spirits (and I guess horse spirits) wouldn't be able to shift those specific parts, which is how you found them out. Anyone else heard this, or know anything about shapeshifting horses? The only legends I've read about those are European.
Rogue Elendae 07-05-07, 07:09 PM	Don't know about the European legends, or Chinese ones, but I know in Japanese myth that the Kitsune (fox demons/spirits) have a tail for every hundred years they live until they're 900, and that when they reach 1000, their fur turns either white, silver, or golden (depending on the version you hear). Furthermore, it's believed that when they take a human guise, there's several ways one can tell them: those with some sort of magic/second sight are said to be able to see a small plume of blue flame over their head (kitsune-bi, or foxfire), they will always reflect their true form (including when seen through a lens, as well as in mirrors or water), dogs will sense their true nature, and in some stories I've heard that their tails will show/can be seen by certain people. There's also (according to Encyclopedia Mythica) a Korean legend about their version of the nine-tailed fox, the malevolent Kumiho (Kitsune are most often tricksters, or will take human form to repay a benevolent person; they're only sometimes genuinely malicious or evil. According to the entry in the EM, Kumiho are always evil). However, I don't know much about Korean myth (I grew up on the books of Japanese fairytales my baachan gave me, which is where I learned those stories. Unfortunately, most other Asian myths I only have bare-bones knowledge of), so I can't say how accurate it is. As to the horses, I don't know. I've heard of things like the Each-Uisge of Scottish myths, or the Alastyn, which took on human form but kept the horse ears, and I've heard of horse and bull Oni in Japanese legends, but I don't recall anything about them taking human form, with or without hooves showing. With regard to the name listings/ideas that're the main topic of this thread, I can only throw in that often, Japanese boys in particular are simply named for birth order (Ichiro/Kazuo/Hiro, Jiro, Sanjuro, Goro (that's 5, don't know any for 4), etc.) when they're young, but that old tradition was that you were given an adult name after a certain point. That's not a modern practice to my knowledge, but the birth order naming tradition often still holds true, and the old practice could be brought up as part of roleplay or a PC's backstory in an OA game. I'm not sure about girls, unfortunately. As for surnames, they're often something to do with where the family's from, great accomplishments, etc. For example, Yamanaka, which means "From/Of the Mountains," or Sekiguchi, which I believe means "Gate-Opening." Don't know if any of this has already been brought up, I was only skimming the thread...hope it's useful.
Zaver 07-06-07, 01:12 AM	As to Chinese myths about animal spirits, from what I got through on Journey to the West (got too repetative and I couldnt' finish it) any living creature can cultivate it's spirit and become an immortal. Though I don't remember them having any characteristic that would give them away and simple mortals couldn't figure them for any thing other then what they had changed into.
mearrin69 07-06-07, 06:17 PM	BTW, just saw it on my geekshelf so thought I'd mention it: GURPS China might be a good resource for your campaign. The SJG books are generally very well done and most of them (including this one) have lots of info that is easily usable in any system. M