Post/Author/DateTime	Post
darth_borehd 07-18-07, 08:11 PM	What new core classes from the "Complete" books fit in with Oriental Adventures? I am going to be starting an OA campaign and allow some parts of the "Complete" series of books as well. Obviously, the ninja would be allowed. I'm going to let players choose between the Complete Warrior Samurai and the OA Samurai. The in-game explanation would be that CW Samurai are a "lost" clan. I'm undecided about the different versions of the other oriental classes. Should I use the Complete versions or the OA versions with the 3.5 update from Dragon? As far as the other classes, I'm not sure if they even fit or not. Is there really a concept of a Warlock in oriental mythology? Scout sounds generic enough to fit in somewhere, but I don't know how. I'm not sure how to work Hexblades and Swashbucklers in either. I'm really dubious about allowing warmages and spellthieves as they seem connected to Western-style wizards. Favored Soul might work as a kind of "Enlightened One" or something to that effect. I'm interested in hearing what others think.
AAB 07-18-07, 11:05 PM	i'm not sure if there's a warlock in eastern mythology, but it doesn't really stick out that much. i'd say it's fine to bring it in. scouts could be primarily from the crab clan's (hiruma?) skirmishing/sneaking group. hexblades could be great as scorpion bushi (now that i think about it, it's a perfect fit). swashbucklers would work as mantis clan warriors, using the TWF variant from PHBII. and IMO favored soul wouldn't be great in OA. but i don't like magic that much. i prefer to replace it completely with monastics psions.
Ranger REG 07-19-07, 02:51 AM	What new core classes from the "Complete" books fit in with Oriental Adventures? I wouldn't touch any of the oriental-themed classes from the Complete series, unless I renamed them something more gaijin-appropriate.
Jadeite 07-19-07, 04:22 PM	Hexblade, Shugenja, Warlock, Wu-Jen, Ninja (might need another name), Scout, Ardent and Lurk. At least, those are the classes that I deemed appropriate for my Oriental Adventures Campaign. In my opinion both Samurai Classes are lacking. Diamond Mind is a much better mechanism for Iaijutsu and Samurai are much more an Archetype than a class. So I have Fighter Samurai, Warblade Samurai, Swordsage Samurai, Psychic Warrior Samurai, Ranger Samurai, even Berserker Samurai. The Ninja will get the same treatment. Will this be a Campaign be located in Rokugan or a different Setting?
darth_borehd 07-19-07, 07:03 PM	Hexblade, Shugenja, Warlock, Wu-Jen, Ninja (might need another name), Scout, Ardent and Lurk. At least, those are the classes that I deemed appropriate for my Oriental Adventures Campaign. In my opinion both Samurai Classes are lacking. Diamond Mind is a much better mechanism for Iaijutsu and Samurai are much more an Archetype than a class. So I have Fighter Samurai, Warblade Samurai, Swordsage Samurai, Psychic Warrior Samurai, Ranger Samurai, even Berserker Samurai. The Ninja will get the same treatment. Will this be a Campaign be located in Rokugan or a different Setting? A different setting. This campaign will be loosely based on Jet Li's Hero and other Wuxia films, along with some Japanese influences (like Samurai and Ninja). I see what you are saying about samurai and ninja being concepts instead of classes. I'll think about doing the same.
darth_borehd 07-19-07, 07:05 PM	I wouldn't touch any of the oriental-themed classes from the Complete series, unless I renamed them something more gaijin-appropriate. Are you saying they are not oriental-themed enough? Can you explain more what you mean?
geekmasterflash 07-20-07, 12:38 AM	The Complete Adventurer Ninja, Complete Divine Shugenja, and Complete Arcane Wujen makes a lot of sense and for the most part are 3.5 updates of the 3.0 OA, however I have a strong dislike of both the OA and the CW Samurai. Might I suggest using the Knight class from PHBII? Also, the Sohei does not have an update although I feel it is a quintessential class for any Japanese themed game. I believe there is an update in one of the Dragon Magazines. Oh, and Favored Soul would make for a great Yamabushi.
Hochiu 07-20-07, 12:43 PM	The Complete Adventurer Ninja was a reprint of the Ninja found in one of the Dragon magazines. The Oriental Adventures book featured two prestige classes, the Shadow Scout and Ninja Spy which were roughly equivalent to Ninja. In effect there was no WOTC authorized Ninja class until CAV. Before that, Rokugan d20 produced a ninja base class that you can find on their website for download as a .pdf. Complete Divine Shugenja is a reprint of the OA shugenja with a number of typographical and editorial errors. I use it myself for my own worlds. I'm unsure about the Wu Jen. Dragon 318# has the 3.5 OA update, where it mostly updates a few class features of some of the classes (Specifically, Sohei (barbarian updages) and Shaman). More updates come to the feats and the spells than anything else. It wasn't a very large update, about 7 pages or so IIRC. In essence, you could make "Samurai" a social station, confer upon it a general guideline of honor and provide them with some benefits of that station (extra money) for service to their lord. As it stands, the samurai from OA (my preferred class) is just a rehash fighter with an ancestral weapon ability. It suffers the same number of drawbacks as the fighter, if not more, because of greater roleplay restrictions and less bonus feats. I'm not a fan of the Knight class in general, so I really cannot comment either way on it.
darth_borehd 07-20-07, 04:00 PM	In essence, you could make "Samurai" a social station, confer upon it a general guideline of honor and provide them with some benefits of that station (extra money) for service to their lord. So do you mean there could be Wujen Samurai or Shaman Samurai?
Azzy 07-20-07, 04:45 PM	What new core classes from the "Complete" books fit in with Oriental Adventures? Any. It's all in how you explain the fluff. All in all, people make this REALLY BIG EFFING (for emphasis) distinction between Occidental and Oriental campaigns that they really shouldn't.... Take for instance, paladins--while the crusading knight is a Western stereotype, it doesn't mean that there were no "proactive holy warriors" in the East (we have naginata-wielding yamabushi without even leaving Japan). Or.... Just because the swashbuckler is associated with pirates and musketeers, it doesn't mean that there weren't cheeky, lightly armored warriors in the "Mystical Orient" (just watch some wuxia or chanbara films). Or... et cetera. Don't let names like "bard" or "druid" or whatever scare you off because, chances are, you can find an analogous concept in just about any culture. That said, here's how I rate the (non-PHB) classes: Scrap the OA Samurai, CW Samurai, CW Swashbukler, PHB2 Knight and replace them with the (refurbished) PHB Fighter (or, if you have ToB, classes from that). Scrap the CAd Ninja, as you have everything to make a ninja character (any ninja character) without it. This was wholly unnecessary. Scrap the OA/CD Shugenja (which is the same thing)--despite its name, it's not any more "oriental" than either the PHB Cleric or CD Favored Soul, and bears no resemblance to its namesake. Neither does it fill a role that couldn't be better filled elsewhere. Scrap the CW Hexblade, if you want a single-class arcane gish go with the PHB2 Duskblade. If you want an arcane caster with a fiendish hook, go either PHB Sorcerer with the appropriate feats, or (if you must) CA Warlock. OA/CA Wu Jen (again, same thing)--it's quaint, but you don't really need it if you've got PHB Wizards (or vice versa). It's more of a re-flavored, variant PHB Wizard with neat game mechanics. OA Shaman--like the OA/CA Wu Jen, it's not a strictly necessary class, but if you don't want PHB Clerics, PHB Druids (or CD Favored Souls), here's your default divine caster. CD Favored Soul--if you really want a spontaneous divine caster, there it is. Otherwise, you don't really need it. I hate extraneous base classes, I really do. CD Spirit Shaman.... Quaint. You could fill the role of a barbaric divine caster with a Druid instead (or the OA Shaman, or even--get this-- the PHB Cleric!), but whatever. CAr Scout, CAr Spellthief, PHB2 Beguiler, PHB Dragon Shaman--more extraneous classes. Do you need any of them? No. But, again, whatever.
Azzy 07-20-07, 04:53 PM	So do you mean there could be Wujen Samurai or Shaman Samurai? Yes. A person that was born into a samurai family in the buke class could decide to study in the ways of Onmyoudou (wu jen) or Shugendou (shaman). Probably to the chagrin of his family, but that's the stuff that PCs are made of.
AAB 07-20-07, 08:42 PM	i cannot stress enough how much i like psionics in OA campaigns. psions training beside monks is a really cool concept (and psychic warriors fit the yamabushi role very well, too).
The_Shaman 07-21-07, 06:35 AM	I don't know about psions, but psychic warriors/weapon masters and rogues/lurks (if you want a ninja with more "special powers") can fit in quite well with what I imagine a OA campaign to be. Swashbucklers, like cockroaches, can fit in anywhere - especially where people do not wear armor all the time. They don't need to be sassy, or wield rapiers, or even know how to dance a madrigal - at the core, it is a class for light-armored warriors who value precision, agility and "fighting smart" more than heavy armor and a big weapon. A self-taught streetfighter can as easily be a swashbuckler as a fighter - in fact, is more likely to be a swashie imo. IF you want them to be something more, consider a school - but if you want to be influenced by Japan, they would probably be commoners (not that a young, rebellious samurai can't take an interest to their teachings) - perhaps their interest in light or no armor and light weapons is caused by the fact that they can't get any other kind. OA already has another archetype fitting the "noble duelist" role Hexblades - meh, you can have them anywhere where there is a strong tradition of magic, whatever name it goes by. A scorpion sect is as likely as any other, although I think their knack for bringing misfortune to others is more likely to make them outcasts regarding the major powers that be, even among scorpions. CW samurai: please don't. If you want, give the OA samurai a few of their abilities, and don't bother. Scout: Guides and, well, scouts for the armies: while rangers receive more combat training, scouts get a wider range of skills. I believe some of the minor clans in Rokugan are - or might be - famous for their trackers. Aside from that, they could simply be commoners who have gotten skillful in forestcraft. I do not know how the skirmish can be justified, but meh. Spellthief: works mainly if there is a strong and open magical element in your campaign. If there are no magics to filch, this class can't except more than the odd rogue with a strange "mutation" ability, and likely will not merit additional organization. CV ninja: I prefer the ninja spy, rogue, and a few others instead. If you want, it could be a subgroup within a larger "ninja" clan. Warlock: like the swashbuckler, it can work in any setting - it is basically a magical gift that may come from nearly any source. Likely outcasts or witches, as their gifts are a bit too... inconspicuous, and they can have trouble fulfilling the "sage" role most other arcanists can pull in order to seem useful. Less scrupulous nobles can employ them, but few settings will have warlocks in positions of prominent power. Wu jen: another take on the wizard, with slightly different spells (if you want). A variant you might want to use for flavor purposes, but a variant nonetheless. It has a slight elementalist feel, which you can fit to your campaign by making several schools, supporting/courted by several clans/countries. Cliche, perhaps, but it works Favored Soul: a mystic, variant cleric, etc. The concept fits in nearly any setting, although the mechanic could use a slight change. Expect them to be more of the "blessed one" variant - whether hermits or proselytizers - than an organized clergy. Spirit Shaman: no reason not to, unless spirits - particularly animal spirits - do not play a big role in the campaign. Barbarian tribes seem like a good way to fit them, but do not underestimate their applicability in the rural regions - or even in the city, although there they might be looked on like mad(wo)men. Shugenja: a less powerful kind of spontaneous caster with some elemental or other firepower. Weaker than the FS, except that it only uses charisma for casting. Otherwise, fits nearly the same role.
Ranger REG 07-23-07, 02:43 AM	Are you saying they are not oriental-themed enough? Can you explain more what you mean? How many historical samurai figures you know fight with both katana and wakizashi? The CW samurai seem to indicate that all of them are trained for two-weapon fighting (provided as class features, not an option). Sorry, but I'm spoiled by too many Taiga drama series, Abarenbo Shogun, and Mifune Toshiro films (sorry, never watch a single samurai-based anime).
The_Shaman 07-23-07, 08:17 AM	Aww, I really enjoyed RK. Then again, it wasn't exactly samurai anime, and I would not pit it against, say, Encyclopedia Britannica in terms of historical value, but it was quite fun
Azzy 07-23-07, 02:58 PM	Aww, I really enjoyed RK. Then again, it wasn't exactly samurai anime, and I would not pit it against, say, Encyclopedia Britannica in terms of historical value, but it was quite fun Then again, how many characters fought with dual-wielded katana and wakizashi in RK? How often does it appear in any "samurai anime?" Personally, I don't see it a lot.
narukagami 07-23-07, 03:06 PM	Then again, how many characters fought with dual-wielded katana and wakizashi in RK? How often does it appear in any "samurai anime?" Personally, I don't see it a lot. Actually, you see it quite allot, in quite a few samurai anime there is almost always at least one character or villain who uses it. In RK alone I can think of about 2-3 characters that had two sword styles. HOWEVER: It is always emphasized that this person is using an unorthodox and/or exceptional style. Two swords is the rare exception, not the rule. Thats why the CW samurai fails, because it tried to make that rare exception into the rule. Also, mechanically, its completely worthless. Its abilities SEEM neat on paper, but in practice its totally worthless.
Sleepwalker13666 07-23-07, 03:13 PM	The has hexblade worked well in my oriental setting.
heretic888 07-23-07, 03:15 PM	Then again, how many characters fought with dual-wielded katana and wakizashi in RK? How often does it appear in any "samurai anime?" Personally, I don't see it a lot. And, when you do see fictional samurai employing nitojutsu, how often do they don heavy armor, have an unwaveringly lawful code of conduct, have an eerie glare that causes their opponents to flee in terror, and shriek like berserkers to "focus" their attacks??? The answer to this is never. The problem with the CW Samurai is that it took bits and pieces from various "samurai" of myth and pop culture, and then rather clumsily collapsed them together into some awkward archetype that, quite frankly, never existed before CW was published. You may have fictional samurai that don heavy armor, fictional samurai that wield two swords (nitojutsu), fictional samurai that master iaijutsu techniques, fictional samurai with some kind of "ki" attacks.... but never in the same character. Then, there's the related issue that in terms of mechanical balance, the CW Samurai actually makes the Fighter look halfway decent. That in and of itself speaks volumes about its viability. Now, outside of the glaringly clumsy archetype the CW Samurai embodies, there is also the little wrinkle that there is nothing particularly "Oriental" about the class. Whatever the flavor for the CW Samurai is supposed to be, its not Far Eastern fantasy. Also note that most of what I've said here also applies to the CV Ninja. It suffers from the same essential problems --- mechanically subpar to core classes, hokey flavor that in no way fits Asian fantasy, rigid "cookie cutter" design that pigeonholes all members of the class into a clumsy and bizarre archetype, and little to no mechanical originality. If you really want to highlight the issues, let's actually compare them to well-designed classes. The ToB classes, notably, are exactly what we should expect of good classes --- interesting flavor, original mechanics, diverse design that supports a variety of roles and archetypes, and mechanically worthwhile taking over core non-casters. The CW Samurai and CV Ninja are prime examples of poor class design ("Oriental" or not), the ToB classes are prime examples of excellent class design. But, hell, that's all just my opinion. :P
narukagami 07-23-07, 03:26 PM	Oh, and my actually on-topic response :P My thoughts, excluding the obvious "oriental"-wannabe classes: Swashbucklers - See The_Shaman's response. Hexblades - Not a fan of the class, but if I did use them I'd use them as mystic warrior types who use their power to disadvantage opponents, or advantage themselves. Scout - Scouts are universal. Everyone has scouts, period. Weither you use this class, rogues, rangers, or whatever to represent them, if the army are not COMPLETE AND UTTER INCOMPETENT IDIOTS, they have scouts. Spellthief - Magic ninja who use opponents spells against them? I dunno, I actually hate this class. Warlock - I've actually had more "Evil Magic users" statted up as Warlocks than any other class. They represent someone who has gained raw magical power in one form or another, and are so universal there isn't a single setting I can think of that contains magic where they wouldn't fit. Favored Soul - I'm not a fan of the class either. But if I were to use it, I'd use it like The_Shaman suggested. Spirit Shaman - I can see it working, you can probably find quite a few analogs in any East Asian culture to justify the class. I actually use it in my setting for the priests in my Ainu-ripoff people.
Hochiu 07-23-07, 05:27 PM	However, I think the scout pales in comparison to the ranger, so I tend to ignore it as an entity. It doesn't exist. La la la la la la.
Azzy 07-24-07, 01:23 AM	Actually, you see it quite allot, in quite a few samurai anime there is almost always at least one character or villain who uses it. In RK alone I can think of about 2-3 characters that had two sword styles. But how many of them were samurai (or rather ex-samurai)? Besides I can only think of one individual in RK that actually used dual-wielded swords (kodachi, in his case). HOWEVER: It is always emphasized that this person is using an unorthodox and/or exceptional style. But that's exactly my point--when it happens it's always presented as unorthodox, and it's usually a technique employed by a villain. Two swords is the rare exception, not the rule. Thats why the CW samurai fails, because it tried to make that rare exception into the rule. You'll get no argument here.
Azzy 07-24-07, 01:26 AM	If you really want to highlight the issues, let's actually compare them to well-designed classes. The ToB classes, notably, are exactly what we should expect of good classes --- interesting flavor, original mechanics, diverse design that supports a variety of roles and archetypes, and mechanically worthwhile taking over core non-casters. The CW Samurai and CV Ninja are prime examples of poor class design ("Oriental" or not), the ToB classes are prime examples of excellent class design. Unfortunately, I do not have ToB. (Yes, grieve for me.) However, I agree with that philosophy of class design--I hate narrow-focused, limited-role classes with a passion that burns with fire of a million ex-girlfriends.... (nevermind)
AAB 07-24-07, 03:20 AM	But how many of them were samurai (or rather ex-samurai)? Besides I can only think of one individual in RK that actually used dual-wielded swords (kodachi, in his case). Aoshi was always my favorite.... And on topic: probably a swashbuckler with the TWF variant in PHBII.
The_Shaman 07-24-07, 04:01 AM	I actually gave RK as a tongue-in-cheek example of an pseudo-samurai anime worth watching, not the grand classic of samurai anime (although the first OVA is perhaps the best example of the genre I can think of). Still, it was fun breathing a little life in the discussion, even by miscommunication :P . I actually once saw the RK ppl statted as d20 characters. Aoshi was a fighter-rogue - like many of the major characters, really,the F-R is a pretty classical combo for "lightweight" characters. He could have some swashie levels, too. Me, I think he is one of the few anime/manga characters that could deserve a dervish level or two. Thousand cuts, anyone? For the record, the other char I can think of is Makie Tachibana from Blade of the Immortal. Oh, btw, he used what would probably be called short swords (or long daggers), except they seemed to do slashing damage. I think that fighting with two short weapons is generally considered more common. Now, before I totally go into fanboy mode, back to the topic. Does anyone think that the shugenja could use a slight boost to compare to FS? It was detailed in OA, which seemed to particularly aim for a setting where magic is relatively low-powered. Right now, it really has problem matching the other spontaneous casters - even sorcerers, who while initially around equal to it (perhaps 3.0 just was based around "spontaneous rocks so much" ideology) at least get a better choice of spells with all the splatbooks.
Holy_Beholder 07-24-07, 03:19 PM	Actually, you see it quite allot, in quite a few samurai anime there is almost always at least one character or villain who uses it. In RK alone I can think of about 2-3 characters that had two sword styles. HOWEVER: It is always emphasized that this person is using an unorthodox and/or exceptional style. Two swords is the rare exception, not the rule. Thats why the CW samurai fails, because it tried to make that rare exception into the rule. Also, mechanically, its completely worthless. Its abilities SEEM neat on paper, but in practice its totally worthless. That is a major problem. Samurai were mainly horse archers, horse being a very important part. They were also trained extensively in the Yari, or spear. Katanas and Waikashis were sort of back up/dueling weapons.
AAB 07-24-07, 11:08 PM	That is a major problem. Samurai were mainly horse archers, horse being a very important part. They were also trained extensively in the Yari, or spear. Katanas and Waikashis were sort of back up/dueling weapons. Let's not bring real life into this so much. Most "samurai fantasy" is based (from my experience/knowledge; I could be wrong) on Tokugawa-era samurai, where the cult of the sword had risen in prominence. Archery by that point was mostly a relic of old, chaotic times. (And by the way - if you're going to make a historical argument please use the accepted plural form of katana and wakizashi. From what I understand Japanese has no plural forms.) ;)
The_Shaman 07-25-07, 04:50 PM	That is a major problem. Samurai were mainly horse archers, horse being a very important part. They were also trained extensively in the Yari, or spear. Katanas and Waikashis were sort of back up/dueling weapons. Heh, this reminded me of the Master Samurai PrC from Sword and Fist. I suppose it tried to mix several archetypes, and is afaik still the record-holder for the PrC with most feat-intensive prerequisites :D .
Holy_Beholder 07-25-07, 08:09 PM	Let's not bring real life into this so much. Most "samurai fantasy" is based (from my experience/knowledge; I could be wrong) on Tokugawa-era samurai, where the cult of the sword had risen in prominence. Archery by that point was mostly a relic of old, chaotic times. (And by the way - if you're going to make a historical argument please use the accepted plural form of katana and wakizashi. From what I understand Japanese has no plural forms.) ;) We aren't speaking japanese, so the plural has to be brought in for it to make sense in english. Of course, maybe I'm more annoyed than most people about the lack of a spear, I like the spear but It seems mostly forgotten. Same thing with the sling(name 3 movies where the main character used a spear extensively. 300, and troy, and even in troy that sword came out all the time.
Hochiu 07-25-07, 11:40 PM	Because Euro-centric spear movements aren't as flashy and fluid as a sword. It doesn't awe the audience half as much as a sword-fight. And the problem about them being "brought in" in English, is not that it helps people out - its displaying ignorance to the actual way its done. The word "Katana" as we write it is romanised already, that's "brought into English" enough. It thus makes sense for the people who choose to understand it.
Azzy 07-26-07, 12:52 AM	Not all loan words follow English pluralization. Heck, not all Engish words follow English pluralization.
Ranger REG 07-26-07, 03:03 AM	Heh, this reminded me of the Master Samurai PrC from Sword and Fist. I suppose it tried to mix several archetypes, and is afaik still the record-holder for the PrC with most feat-intensive prerequisites :D . At least that prestige class's features do not focus on two-weapon fighting.
Sleepwalker13666 07-30-07, 03:25 PM	The Complete Adventurer Ninja, Complete Divine Shugenja, and Complete Arcane Wujen makes a lot of sense and for the most part are 3.5 updates of the 3.0 OA, however I have a strong dislike of both the OA and the CW Samurai. Might I suggest using the Knight class from PHBII? Also, the Sohei does not have an update although I feel it is a quintessential class for any Japanese themed game. I believe there is an update in one of the Dragon Magazines. Oh, and Favored Soul would make for a great Yamabushi. I think it was issue 315 (i'm not sure the exact number but I do have the issues), the updated Sohei are really cool.
aelryinth 07-30-07, 07:26 PM	Scout, cowardly military units specialized in locating and ambushing enemy units, and running back to report to the main army. typically made up of worthless ronin who know the land. They specialize in killing you while they run away from you, the spineless curs. Thats the Lo5R view of most scouts, of course:) Rangers - really weird samurai types who actually like hanging out in the woods and learning the land. Not neccessarily uncivilized (think Fox clan), but definitely a step down from 'true' samurai (full BAB would be indicative of more martial training then most non-samurai caste characters could get). Truly Honorable scouts for an army are likely rangers. Most of them are probably cheerful ronin expended by the great clans like so much trash. ==Aelryinth
Ranger REG 07-30-07, 11:30 PM	Scout, cowardly military units specialized in locating and ambushing enemy units, and running back to report to the main army. typically made up of worthless ronin who know the land. They specialize in killing you while they run away from you, the spineless curs. Thats the Lo5R view of most scouts, of course:) Scoffs. It's only cowardly if you use poison.
The_Shaman 07-31-07, 03:11 AM	I think it was issue 315 (i'm not sure the exact number but I do have the issues), the updated Sohei are really cool. 318. As for the sohei, does anyone have experience as to how it compares to the monk? As for the rangers, they don't have to like what they are doing, they just have to do it. What if the big boss told them to get their belongings, leave the capital, and patrol the border forest until further notice?
Steely_Dan 07-31-07, 08:15 AM	I wouldn't touch any of the oriental-themed classes from the Complete series, unless I renamed them something more gaijin-appropriate. Exactly, in my current campaign that bizarre samurai class from CW is titled Lolth's Honour Guard (a special TWF bodyguard type class).
Steely_Dan 07-31-07, 08:17 AM	What would be a good base class to represent the Yamabushi?
Azzy 07-31-07, 08:30 AM	What would be a good base class to represent the Yamabushi? Which yamabushi? ;) For the warrior-monks (sohei), you could go with sohei, cleric or even paladin. For the reclusive practitioners of Shugendou (shugenja), you could go with shaman or clerics.
Steely_Dan 07-31-07, 08:56 AM	Which yamabushi? ;) For the warrior-monks (sohei), you could go with sohei, cleric or even paladin. For the reclusive practitioners of Shugendou (shugenja), you could go with shaman or clerics. How about fitting the druid in a Chinese or Japanese themed campaign?
darth_borehd 07-31-07, 08:47 PM	How about fitting the druid in a Chinese or Japanese themed campaign? Well, any nature-magic wielders might fit. You would have to call it something other than "druid" though.
calronmoonflower 08-01-07, 02:51 AM	What would be a good base class to represent the Yamabushi? If wikipedia's deception is right ninja/monk would work well. Taking the Ascetic Stacker feat should blend it together nicely.
Steely_Dan 08-01-07, 06:59 AM	Well, any nature-magic wielders might fit. You would have to call it something other than "druid" though. Of course, but what would be a good Japanese name – Yamahoshi or something? Maybe Yamabushi, as some Yamabushi were mountain warrior/monks who were often attributed elemental/mystic powers.
Steely_Dan 08-01-07, 07:01 AM	If wikipedia's deception is right ninja/monk would work well. Taking the Ascetic Stacker feat should blend it together nicely. Really, one of the most common interpretations I've read about Yamabushi is that they were mountainous warrior/monks with mystical (elemental?) powers.
Azzy 08-01-07, 07:43 AM	How about fitting the druid in a Chinese or Japanese themed campaign? Well, if we interpret the druid's veneration of nature as the veneration of nature spirits, we can have a lot more to work with. A druid could be a hermit practitioner of the Chinese folk religion or a rural Shintou priest, or some other wilderness-bound religious ascetic.
Steely_Dan 08-01-07, 08:31 AM	Well, if we interpret the druid's veneration of nature as the veneration of nature spirits, we can have a lot more to work with. A druid could be a hermit practitioner of the Chinese folk religion or a rural Shintou priest, or some other wilderness-bound religious ascetic. Totally, a Kami revering Shinto dude.
heretic888 08-01-07, 11:03 AM	Just for clarification's sake, the yamabushi were not "warrior monks" nor are they depicted as such in most Japanese fiction. The common translation of yamabushi as "mountain warrior" is erroneous (the kanji used is not the same as the kanji for bushi or warrior) and something that no Japanese speaker would say. The association of the yamabushi or shugenja with "martial arts" mostly comes from books written by Stephen Turnbull and Donn Draeger, when it was revealed that ninja often adopted a yamabushi's appearance as a disguise. This is similar to how some Westerners associate the geisha with martial arts or subterfuge by virtue of the fact that many a ninja found adopting them as a disguise expedient to their goals. Personally, I'd go with the Shaman or Druid myself.
ShinoAburame 08-02-07, 02:28 AM	Actually it would seem to me you should use nothing but complete classes for an OA campaign. (Including complete psionics) That'd be 15 classes, if you wanted to create more variety, make it gestalt and the combonations would be endless!
heretic888 08-02-07, 10:12 AM	Actually it would seem to me you should use nothing but complete classes for an OA campaign. (Including complete psionics) I should certainly hope not, considering 90% of the Complete X classes are complete and utter garbage.
Steely_Dan 08-02-07, 10:26 AM	I should certainly hope not, considering 90% of the Complete X classes are complete and utter garbage. Are there any that you do like? My group has found the spirit shaman to be a delightful little class.
Darth Sephiroth 08-03-07, 04:30 PM	Same here, most of the classes are nice. The OA ones in Complete Divine and Arcane are pretty nice updates as well. The Complete Adventurer Ninja is a fun class to use for the more mystic ninja types. Most of the other classes can easily be fit into an OA game with some thought. The Complete Warrior Samurai is garbage, but most of the rest is useful.