Epic Ancestral Daisho [Archive] - Wizards Community

Epic Ancestral Daisho [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
hockeyman
03-03-07, 03:38 AM yes i am currently playing in an epic campaign as an OA Samurai. im needing an epic progression for the ancestral daisho. i would like the gold and xp versions if possible since my DM has made me use both of them. plz help
heretic888
03-03-07, 07:40 AM yes i am currently playing in an epic campaign as an OA Samurai. im needing an epic progression for the ancestral daisho. i would like the gold and xp versions if possible since my DM has made me use both of them. plz help

While I am reluctant to help somebody that ends his post with "plz help", I would like to offer the following:

Epic Insights - Oriental Adventures Core Classes (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20020811a) by Andy Collins

In this article, a Samurai can only get an epic ancestral daisho if he/she takes the Epic Ancestral Daisho feat, although a table is provided. Unfortunately, since Rokugan Campaign Setting has the xp variant rule and that is an AEG product, you're out of luck finding any "official" epic progression for that.

Laterz.
Count Arioch the 28th
03-03-07, 08:09 AM As a side note, try talking your DM into just letting your ancestral daisho just be allowed to increase. Say, be a max of +11 at level 21, and add +1 more every odd level, with the total sacrifice be equal to a weapon of that price would cost.

The reason being is that the Epic Ancestral Daisho feat unfairly nerfs the OA samurai, and requires you to spend literally every feat you get on it to stay competitive. (No one would think to make the fighter take feats to allow him to buy a bigger bastard sword, why is the Samurai stuck with it?)
Ranger REG
03-03-07, 09:09 PM As a side note, try talking your DM into just letting your ancestral daisho just be allowed to increase. Say, be a max of +11 at level 21, and add +1 more every odd level, with the total sacrifice be equal to a weapon of that price would cost.

The reason being is that the Epic Ancestral Daisho feat unfairly nerfs the OA samurai, and requires you to spend literally every feat you get on it to stay competitive. (No one would think to make the fighter take feats to allow him to buy a bigger bastard sword, why is the Samurai stuck with it?)
AFAIK, you need only acquire the Epic Ancestral Daisho feat once, much like Stunning Fist or Superior Unarmed Strike (i.e., level-dependent feats).

And if your DM is lenient, one shouldn't take the "daisho" part literally.
Count Arioch the 28th
03-04-07, 12:44 AM AFAIK, you need only acquire the Epic Ancestral Daisho feat once, much like Stunning Fist or Superior Unarmed Strike (i.e., level-dependent feats)

You'd be wrong.

Epic Ancestral Daisho

Your ancestral weapon gains the capacity for even greater power.

Prerequisites: Samurai level 21, Wis 19.

Benefit: The maximum weapon bonus that you can awaken in your ancestral daisho increases by +1 (such as from +10 to +11). Also, your ancestral daisho's maximum enhancement bonus increases by +1 (such as from +5 to +6).

You must still make an appropriate sacrifice to awaken this bonus, as shown on the table below. For instance, to increase a +5 flaming katana of speed to a +6 flaming katana of speed, the samurai must sacrifice 2,220,000 gp.

The samurai must spend one day per 10,000 gp sacrificed in the shrine or temple. He must spend at least 8 hours each of these days kneeling before his ancestors and his weapons, not stopping to eat or rest.

It's pretty clear that the feat is only intended to increase the weapon and enhancement bonus by +1 per feat.
Azzy
03-04-07, 12:28 PM Either way, I agree that it shouldn't be a feat--it should be a class feature gained automatically.
narukagami
03-04-07, 12:39 PM The problem with Epic levels is that once you reach them, the entire game stops making any sense at all. From a mechanical, design, and roleplaying standpoint. Half the Epic feats are grossly underpowered even if they could be taken in regular levels, even more aren't so powerful that there is no reason you shouldn't be able to take them in regular levels, and then there is a small handful that actually deserve the [Epic] tag.
So you can take a bunch of feats that allow you to do something that the magic item you picked up 15 levels ago does better anyway. Whoopidy friggen do da.
Hell, there are only two things thats actually "epic" at all about Epic levels. One is the horribly insane epic spellcasting, the other is Wizard's stupidity in the design.

But enough of my opinion of "Epic" levels...

The Epic Daisho ability should be a class feature, let the epic samurai waste his feats on other underpowered garbage instead of that.
Ranger REG
03-05-07, 01:58 AM It's pretty clear that the feat is only intended to increase the weapon and enhancement bonus by +1 per feat.
But it did not specifically mention you may take the feat multiple times.
Count Arioch the 28th
03-05-07, 08:14 AM Which means that you are even more screwed because your daisho now can't get beyond +6 weapon bonus and +6 enhancement, which also makes the whole rest of the pricing chart extraneous.

Keep talking, you're making Epic Ancestral Daisho look crappier and crappier every time you post something.
Darth Sephiroth
03-05-07, 10:48 AM My thought is that you need it for each additional +10 equivalent bonus, so you'd need it a second time to rase your Katana above the equivalent of a +20 Katana
Count Arioch the 28th
03-05-07, 04:07 PM It still blows though.

A fighter doesn't need to spend a feat to use a +20 bastard sword, why should a samurai burn feats just to use a +20 katana?
Darth Sephiroth
03-05-07, 07:05 PM It's two weapons that are improvable rather than one for one thing, but having them as they are is basically an open invitation for the Ancestral Relic feat to cover most of the costs if you need it.
Ranger REG
03-06-07, 01:11 AM Which means that you are even more screwed because your daisho now can't get beyond +6 weapon bonus and +6 enhancement, which also makes the whole rest of the pricing chart extraneous.

Keep talking, you're making Epic Ancestral Daisho look crappier and crappier every time you post something.
:bored: Meh. I'll let my players take the feat once and they can expand beyond the +6 bonus as long as they sacrifice the appropriate GP.

If you want this argument settled, get the official company answer.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
hockeyman 03-03-07, 03:38 AM	yes i am currently playing in an epic campaign as an OA Samurai. im needing an epic progression for the ancestral daisho. i would like the gold and xp versions if possible since my DM has made me use both of them. plz help
heretic888 03-03-07, 07:40 AM	yes i am currently playing in an epic campaign as an OA Samurai. im needing an epic progression for the ancestral daisho. i would like the gold and xp versions if possible since my DM has made me use both of them. plz help While I am reluctant to help somebody that ends his post with "plz help", I would like to offer the following: Epic Insights - Oriental Adventures Core Classes (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20020811a) by Andy Collins In this article, a Samurai can only get an epic ancestral daisho if he/she takes the Epic Ancestral Daisho feat, although a table is provided. Unfortunately, since Rokugan Campaign Setting has the xp variant rule and that is an AEG product, you're out of luck finding any "official" epic progression for that. Laterz.
Count Arioch the 28th 03-03-07, 08:09 AM	As a side note, try talking your DM into just letting your ancestral daisho just be allowed to increase. Say, be a max of +11 at level 21, and add +1 more every odd level, with the total sacrifice be equal to a weapon of that price would cost. The reason being is that the Epic Ancestral Daisho feat unfairly nerfs the OA samurai, and requires you to spend literally every feat you get on it to stay competitive. (No one would think to make the fighter take feats to allow him to buy a bigger bastard sword, why is the Samurai stuck with it?)
Ranger REG 03-03-07, 09:09 PM	As a side note, try talking your DM into just letting your ancestral daisho just be allowed to increase. Say, be a max of +11 at level 21, and add +1 more every odd level, with the total sacrifice be equal to a weapon of that price would cost. The reason being is that the Epic Ancestral Daisho feat unfairly nerfs the OA samurai, and requires you to spend literally every feat you get on it to stay competitive. (No one would think to make the fighter take feats to allow him to buy a bigger bastard sword, why is the Samurai stuck with it?) AFAIK, you need only acquire the Epic Ancestral Daisho feat once, much like Stunning Fist or Superior Unarmed Strike (i.e., level-dependent feats). And if your DM is lenient, one shouldn't take the "daisho" part literally.
Count Arioch the 28th 03-04-07, 12:44 AM	AFAIK, you need only acquire the Epic Ancestral Daisho feat once, much like Stunning Fist or Superior Unarmed Strike (i.e., level-dependent feats) You'd be wrong. Epic Ancestral Daisho Your ancestral weapon gains the capacity for even greater power. Prerequisites: Samurai level 21, Wis 19. Benefit: The maximum weapon bonus that you can awaken in your ancestral daisho increases by +1 (such as from +10 to +11). Also, your ancestral daisho's maximum enhancement bonus increases by +1 (such as from +5 to +6). You must still make an appropriate sacrifice to awaken this bonus, as shown on the table below. For instance, to increase a +5 flaming katana of speed to a +6 flaming katana of speed, the samurai must sacrifice 2,220,000 gp. The samurai must spend one day per 10,000 gp sacrificed in the shrine or temple. He must spend at least 8 hours each of these days kneeling before his ancestors and his weapons, not stopping to eat or rest. It's pretty clear that the feat is only intended to increase the weapon and enhancement bonus by +1 per feat.
Azzy 03-04-07, 12:28 PM	Either way, I agree that it shouldn't be a feat--it should be a class feature gained automatically.
narukagami 03-04-07, 12:39 PM	The problem with Epic levels is that once you reach them, the entire game stops making any sense at all. From a mechanical, design, and roleplaying standpoint. Half the Epic feats are grossly underpowered even if they could be taken in regular levels, even more aren't so powerful that there is no reason you shouldn't be able to take them in regular levels, and then there is a small handful that actually deserve the [Epic] tag. So you can take a bunch of feats that allow you to do something that the magic item you picked up 15 levels ago does better anyway. Whoopidy friggen do da. Hell, there are only two things thats actually "epic" at all about Epic levels. One is the horribly insane epic spellcasting, the other is Wizard's stupidity in the design. But enough of my opinion of "Epic" levels... The Epic Daisho ability should be a class feature, let the epic samurai waste his feats on other underpowered garbage instead of that.
Ranger REG 03-05-07, 01:58 AM	It's pretty clear that the feat is only intended to increase the weapon and enhancement bonus by +1 per feat. But it did not specifically mention you may take the feat multiple times.
Count Arioch the 28th 03-05-07, 08:14 AM	Which means that you are even more screwed because your daisho now can't get beyond +6 weapon bonus and +6 enhancement, which also makes the whole rest of the pricing chart extraneous. Keep talking, you're making Epic Ancestral Daisho look crappier and crappier every time you post something.
Darth Sephiroth 03-05-07, 10:48 AM	My thought is that you need it for each additional +10 equivalent bonus, so you'd need it a second time to rase your Katana above the equivalent of a +20 Katana
Count Arioch the 28th 03-05-07, 04:07 PM	It still blows though. A fighter doesn't need to spend a feat to use a +20 bastard sword, why should a samurai burn feats just to use a +20 katana?
Darth Sephiroth 03-05-07, 07:05 PM	It's two weapons that are improvable rather than one for one thing, but having them as they are is basically an open invitation for the Ancestral Relic feat to cover most of the costs if you need it.
Ranger REG 03-06-07, 01:11 AM	Which means that you are even more screwed because your daisho now can't get beyond +6 weapon bonus and +6 enhancement, which also makes the whole rest of the pricing chart extraneous. Keep talking, you're making Epic Ancestral Daisho look crappier and crappier every time you post something. :bored: Meh. I'll let my players take the feat once and they can expand beyond the +6 bonus as long as they sacrifice the appropriate GP. If you want this argument settled, get the official company answer.