Post/Author/DateTime	Post
cpn_creepo 03-28-07, 03:40 PM	I'm currently working on a campaign world, and in one of the areas of my world lies a few countries that parallel many real-world cultures. This yet-unnamed country will be taken over my a dictatorship that has no respect for it's people, and there'll be a group of assassins seeking to end this conflict and reclaim the lands for the people that claim heritage to it. These assassins are obviously based upon the hashshashin, whom fought the crusaders during the middle ages. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashshashin for more info.) And my question is: Is there a "good assassin" PrC out there? Or what about a class that meets the flavor for what I want to do that i can re-name?
heretic888 03-28-07, 04:03 PM	I must admit that I don't know much about the legends and mythology attributed to the Assassins, so I'm unsure how their abilities would be depicted in an Oriental Adventures setting. That being said, why not just use the Assassin prestige class in the DMG, drop the alignment restriction, and write in your own campaign-appropriate flavor?? Just a suggestion.
cpn_creepo 03-28-07, 04:43 PM	I must admit that I don't know much about the legends and mythology attributed to the Assassins, so I'm unsure how their abilities would be depicted in an Oriental Adventures setting. That being said, why not just use the Assassin prestige class in the DMG, drop the alignment restriction, and write in your own campaign-appropriate flavor?? Just a suggestion. Well, that's a possibility I've been thinking of. My hole deal with doing that is that I'd drop the poison mastery ability, get rid of the CE alignment restriction ability, change it to CG, probably, and instead of killing somebody out of cold blood, have the person wanting to join be initiated by a elder of the particular religious sect my hashshashins would be part of. Those things would be easy enough, I suppose, but I'd have to overhaul my spell list. Possibly making him an divine spellcaster for flavor purposes. I'm pretty bad about making classes, especially casters for whatever reason. What sort of spells should I give him?
heretic888 03-28-07, 05:03 PM	Like I said before, I honestly know nothing about the lore and mythology associated with the Assassins. What sort of feats or abilities did they purportedly have?? Does the associated literature about them have any 'far out' stories?? Perhaps something of a religious nature?? It's really up to you. If you don't like the Assassin prestige class, there's always the Ninja Spy prestige class in OA.
Ranger REG 03-28-07, 11:31 PM	I'm currently working on a campaign world, and in one of the areas of my world lies a few countries that parallel many real-world cultures. This yet-unnamed country will be taken over my a dictatorship that has no respect for it's people, and there'll be a group of assassins seeking to end this conflict and reclaim the lands for the people that claim heritage to it. These assassins are obviously based upon the hashshashin, whom fought the crusaders during the middle ages. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashshashin for more info.) And my question is: Is there a "good assassin" PrC out there? Or what about a class that meets the flavor for what I want to do that i can re-name? IIRC, they even fought WITH the crusaders, which is why Saladin is afraid of them, too.
Kid SixXx 03-29-07, 11:56 AM	IIRC, they even fought WITH the crusaders, which is why Saladin is afraid of them, too. Well, Hassan-i Sabbah's primary goal in forming the Hashshashin (ie. Hashshashin was the name given to them by detractors. They actually referred to themselves as the Al-da'wa Al-jadīda or "Followers of the New Doctrine") was the destruction of the Abbasid Caliphate by murdering high profile supporters. He probably did this because Saladin's hate for the Batini people wasn't exactly a secret: they were considered to be heretics to the Islamic faith. Sabbah played both sides pretty much in an effort to maintain autonomy & outsiders payed perfectly good money to have regional enemies eliminated yet have their hands clean of the actual deed. It just so happened that it worked well for the Hashahshin because the targets were also enemies of the Hashashin. Getting paid to kill people you normally would have killed for free is not such a bad position to be in. In a post script, most scholars concur that the derivation of the word "assassin" coming from their consumption of hashish was actually an early attempt by the Abbasid Caliphate to villify Sabbah and his followers. It is usually accepted that the term "assassin" is actually derived from some mutation of "followers of Hassan-i (Sabbah)" or the term "Assassiyun": a word that Sabbah applied to his followers which roughly translates to "the faithful of the foundation." Interestingly enough, detractors of another sect of killers (the Thugee) also used the "murders motivated by drug use" villification ploy. You can pretty much do anything you want to in your game, but I am not terribly sure that I'd consider a derivation of the Al-da'wa Al-jadīda to necessarily be a "good" organization. Perhaps neutralish at best, with access to a couple of divine spells substituted to the Assassin spell list. Perhaps you should take a look at the 2ed Al-Qadim setting? There is a kit (precursor to the PrC) called the "holy slayer" which you could probably convert to a not-so-evil version of the Assassin PrC. I suppose it is noteworthy to mention that the Assassin PrC was originally supposed to represent the members of one particular Assassin's Guild in the Greyhawk campaign (probably the one supported by the Scarlet Brotherhood) but it got grandfathered to cover any "assassin": probably due to a lack of space in the DMG. There is also the Black Flame Zealot PrC from the FR setting to work with: it also has a Death Attack in its progression.
cpn_creepo 03-30-07, 05:18 PM	Well, Hassan-i Sabbah's primary goal in forming the Hashshashin . . . . Wow, informative. I think for my game purposes I'll make the alignment restriction LN, as my Hashshashin will be a holy order intent on driving out invaders of their lands through any means necessary. I'll do that, maybe ditch the poison handling thing, and set them up with a divine spell list. Anybody else got any suggestions? Particulary in relation to the spell list, I'm horrible with that sort of thing.
cpn_creepo 03-30-07, 06:00 PM	So, i was gonna post my Hashshashin PrC, but my tables got all fubared. What's the code for doing tables? I forget.
Ranger REG 03-30-07, 10:01 PM	So, i was gonna post my Hashshashin PrC, but my tables got all fubared. What's the code for doing tables? I forget. Do your tables on Notepad (or set your word processor to use fixed-length fonts like Courier New). When you're done, use the tag.
cpn_creepo 03-31-07, 02:12 AM	Hashshashin Along the war-torn, and enemy occupied country known as Khair al Din, lies a sect whose motives are as religiously driven, as they are politically. The Hashshashin Brotherhood is a group of assassins dedicated to the removal of the occupied oppressors of Khair al Din by strategic assassinations, thefts, and other forms of subtlety. The hashshashin are the elite warriors of said sect. They’re responsible for countless acts of espionage, theft and assassination on the Hętshepshisthians Empire that claim ownership of their lands. Most hashshashin are rogues or monks, trained in either the dagger, or the bare fist. Rangers and bards also oft become hashshashin. Fighters, barbarians, and ex-paladins seldom become hashshashin due to the Brotherhood favoring tact and skill to brute force. Clerics, wizards and sorcerers are also generally frowned up, as many of their spells can create unwanted attention. Hit Die d6. Requirements To qualify to become a hashshashin, a character must fulfill all the following criteria. Alignment Lawful Neutral Skills Disguise 4 ranks, Hide 8 ranks, and Move Silently 8 ranks. Special The character must me formally inducted into the Hashshashin Brotherhood by an elder. Class Skills The hashshashin’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), and Use Rope (Dex). Skill Points at Each Level 4 + Int modifier. Class Features All of the following are Class Features of the hashshashin prestige class. Weapon and Armor Proficiency Hashshashins are proficient with the crossbow (hand, light, or heavy), dagger (any type), dart, rapier, sap, shortbow (normal and composite), and short sword. Hashshashins are proficient with light armor but not with shields. Sneak Attack This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name. The extra damage dealt increases by +1d6 every other level (1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 9th). If a hashshashin gets a sneak attack bonus from another source the bonuses on damage stack. The Hashshashin Level BaB Fort Ref Will Special Spells per Day 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 1st +0 +0 +2 +0 Sneak attack +1d6, 0 - - - Improved Unarmed Strike, spells 2nd +1 +0 +3 +0 Smite 1/day, 1 — — — uncanny dodge 3rd +2 +1 +3 +1 Sneak attack +2d6 2 0 — — 4th +3 +1 +4 +1 Death Attack 3 1 — — 5th +3 +1 +4 +1 Improved uncanny dodge, 3 2 0 — sneak attack +3d6 6th +4 +2 +5 +2 Smite 2/day 3 3 1 — 7th +5 +2 +5 +2 Sneak attack +4d6 3 3 2 0 8th +6 +2 +6 +2 Hide in plain sight 3 3 3 1 9th +6 +3 +6 +3 Sneak attack +5d6 3 3 3 2 10th +7 +3 +7 +3 Smite 3/day 3 3 3 3 Improved Unarmed Strike You are considered to be armed even when unarmed —that is, you do not provoke attacks or opportunity from armed opponents when you attack them while unarmed. However, you still get an attack of opportunity against any opponent who makes an unarmed attack on you. In addition, your unarmed strikes can deal lethal or nonlethal damage, at your option. Smite At second level, once per day, and additional time per day every four levels after (6th, 10th), you gain the smite power, the supernatural ability to make a single melee attack with a +4 bonus on attack rolls and a bonus on damage rolls equal to your hashshashin level (if you hit). You must declare the smite before making the attack. Death Attack If a hashshashin studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly either paralyzing or killing the target (hashshashin’s choice). While studying the victim, the hashshashin can undertake other actions so long as his attention stays focused on the target and the target does not detect the hashshashin or recognize the hashshashin as an enemy. If the victim of such an attack fails a Fortitude save (DC 10 + the hashshashin’s class level + the hashshashin’s Int modifier) against the kill effect, she dies. If the saving throw fails against the paralysis effect, the victim is rendered helpless and unable to act for 1d6 rounds plus 1 round per level of the hashshashin. If the victim’s saving throw succeeds, the attack is just a normal sneak attack. Once the hashshashin has completed the 3 rounds of study, he must make the death attack within the next 3 rounds. If a death attack is attempted and fails (the victim makes her save) or if the hashshashin does not launch the attack within 3 rounds of completing the study, 3 new rounds of study are required before he can attempt another death attack. Hashshashin Spells Known Level Spells Known 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 1st 2 — — — 2nd 3 — — — 3rd 3 2 — — 4th 4 3 — — 5th 4 3 2 — 6th 4 4 3 — 7th 4 4 3 2 8th 4 4 4 3 9th 4 4 4 3 10th 4 4 4 4 Spells Beginning at 1st level, a hashshashin gains the ability to cast a number of divine spells. To cast a spell, a hashshashin must have an Wisdom score of at least 10 + the spell’s level, so a hashshashin with an Wisdom of 10 or lower cannot cast these spells. Hashshashin bonus spells are based on wisdom, and saving throws against these spells have a DC of 10 + spell level + the hashshashin’s Wisdom bonus. When the hashshashin gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Wisdom score for that spell level. The hashshashin’s spell list appears below. A hashshashin casts spells just as a bard does. A hashshashin must pray to his god every day for at least an hour before he can cast his spells. Upon reaching 6th level, at every even-numbered level after that (8th and 10th), a hashshashin can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least two levels lower than the highest-level hashshashin spell the hashshashin can cast. A hashshashin may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for that level. Uncanny Dodge (Ex) Starting at 2nd level, an hashshashin retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) regardless of being caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. (He still loses any Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.) If a character gains uncanny dodge from a second class the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below). Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex) At 5th level, a hashshashin can no longer be flanked, since he can react to opponents on opposite sides of him as easily as he can react to a single attacker. This defense denies rogue the ability to use flank attacks to sneak attack the hashshashin. The exception to this defense is that a rogue at least four levels higher than the hashshashin can flank him (and thus sneak attack him). If a character gains uncanny dodge (see above) from a second class the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge, and the levels from those classes stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character. Hide in Plain Sight (Su) At 8th level, a hashshashin can use the hide skill even while being observed. As long as he is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a hashshashin can hide himself from view in the open without having anything to actually hide behind. He cannot, however, hide in his own shadow. Hashshashin Spell List Hashshashin choose their spells from the following list: 1st Level Disguise self, shield of faith, feather fall, ghost sound, jump, obscuring mist, sleep, true strike. 2nd Level Alter self, cat’s grace, darkness, Owl’s Wisdom, illusory script, invisibility, pass without trace, spider climb, aid. 3rd Level Deep slumber, deeper darkness, false life, divine power, misdirection, nondetection. 4th Level Clairaudience/clairvoyance, dimension door, freedom of movement, glibness, greater invisibility, locate creature, modify memory, poison.
Ranger REG 03-31-07, 04:34 AM	You know you could use heading tags like "[h1]" like you would on most word processors. Or a bold tag ("[b]").
tedopon 03-31-07, 11:42 AM	I'm currently working on a campaign world, and in one of the areas of my world lies a few countries that parallel many real-world cultures. This yet-unnamed country will be taken over my a dictatorship that has no respect for it's people, and there'll be a group of assassins seeking to end this conflict and reclaim the lands for the people that claim heritage to it. These assassins are obviously based upon the hashshashin, whom fought the crusaders during the middle ages. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashshashin for more info.) And my question is: Is there a "good assassin" PrC out there? Or what about a class that meets the flavor for what I want to do that i can re-name? I personally would see the Assassins under Hassan I Sabbah as Lawful Neutral (hear me out). They were fed hash pretty much through their waking hours, making their lives one big lucid dream. Given the fact they were so doped up, they were easily controlled through suggestion and rote brainwashing techniques. I'd assign them Lawful Neutral status because they followed orders to the letter, with little regard for the real world ramifications of what they were doing. The end result of their actions were of little to no concern to them, because they were intent upon completing their missions handed to them from their superiors only because THAT WAS THEIR JOB. They weren't evil assassins, they were efficient task oriented automatons. They were serving the law that they were given. That's why I don't use alignment in my games. Morally gray situations pop up all of the time in the real world, and though this is an extreme case, it illustrates the problem in assigning an inflexible value to a situation that is by definition fluidly variable. Killing a stranger is evil. Following orders because you have no choice, or believe strongly in the greater good that conflicting orders will reap is not evil. Therefore, the order itself is an evil act, but I wouldn't punish the person following the order. The old cliche of don't kill the messenger, just because you hate the message comes to mind. EDIT: HA! Nice one creepo! I didn't even read the rest of the posts, I just went to my take on the situation. The Hashashin were one of my favorite groups from history back in the day. I'm glad someone else agreed that LN was the way to go. Nice job with the class as well. I'll be using that in my game.
The_Shaman 03-31-07, 05:12 PM	IMO you can serve the law perfectly and still be LE. I would extend the alignment restriction to non-good, possibly non-chaotic non-good, to allow for some variation. Good alignments might have a problem with the idea of killing whomever the leader says, even if the leader is semi-divine. Just because you're high when you kill people doesn't absolve you of the blame. Likewise, accepting to kill someone just because the boss tells you so doesn't mean you can't be evil (and in fact, you'll often be, unless there are more reasons to the killing) the way I'm reading the alignment section. Followers of evil deities frequently follow their lords' commands to the letter, for example, as do the favourite lieutenants of expansionist tyrants. There are a few "good" assassinish PrCs, some of them (like the shattered peak cultists, which I think you should definitely look at - they're a magefighting order, detailed in Lost Empires of Faerun) have more than a bit of hashishin-ish feel, but the non-evil members probably kill only when the order or they are threatened and when a peaceful solution is impossible or not feasible.
narukagami 04-01-07, 08:16 PM	That being said, why not just use the Assassin prestige class in the DMG, drop the alignment restriction, and write in your own campaign-appropriate flavor?? Oddly enough, check out one of today's front page articles: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a
Grave_Accomplice 04-02-07, 04:28 AM	This might help: http://www.community3e.com/dn/pclass/Sicarii.pdf Its a religious assassin prc that specializes in the sicarii (latin for dagger; they use something akin to an ice pick) as well as disappearing into crowds. Some examples: -Requires alignment is some N -SA dice increase to d8's with a sicarii -threat range and multpilier increases -bonuses to hide in a crowd, depending on its make-up. Observers don't get a spot check for this unless they are actively looking for you, and may still take penalties for it. -limb paralysis when using SA -High level ability: When a target dies from your SA, the body freezes in place. If used creatively, observers won't know the target is dead until much later. You could stab a target resting against a column in the middle of a party and walk away.
Steely_Dan 04-02-07, 09:49 AM	Did they ever release a Holy Slayer PrC (from Al-Qadim) in a Dragon mag?
tedopon 04-02-07, 02:50 PM	Just because you're high when you kill people doesn't absolve you of the blame. Likewise, accepting to kill someone just because the boss tells you so doesn't mean you can't be evil (and in fact, you'll often be, unless there are more reasons to the killing) the way I'm reading the alignment section. Followers of evil deities frequently follow their lords' commands to the letter, for example, as do the favourite lieutenants of expansionist tyrants. The part about them being high all the time wasn't related to their killing so much as it was to show they were highly succeptible to autosuggestion (although there was surely a pre-behavioral science name for it at the time). I agree with you on the Lawful Evil thing, and I could see the Hashashin as falling under either alignment and it being arguable.
cpn_creepo 04-02-07, 05:29 PM	The part about them being high all the time wasn't related to their killing so much as it was to show they were highly succeptible to autosuggestion (although there was surely a pre-behavioral science name for it at the time). I agree with you on the Lawful Evil thing, and I could see the Hashshashin as falling under either alignment and it being arguable. Well, I can definitely see a LE alignment, for for my campaign purposes, however, LN is best. This class suits the flavor of what I was going to try to do. I encourage anyone to alter the alignment to whatever they think it should be. The DM's credo is, after all, "Rules are meant to be bended to my purposes."
tedopon 04-02-07, 07:21 PM	Well, I can definitely see a LE alignment, for for my campaign purposes, however, LN is best. This class suits the flavor of what I was going to try to do. I encourage anyone to alter the alignment to whatever they think it should be. The DM's credo is, after all, "Rules are meant to be bended to my purposes." I see it as LN myself, I was just saying I can see the argument from LE's perspective. Good job on the class.