How to Improve AC in Oriental Campaigns [Archive] - Wizards Community

How to Improve AC in Oriental Campaigns [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
RoyalBlueEyes
02-02-08, 02:39 PM How do you improve Armor Class in Oriental Games, Rokugan, etc
Is there any way to improve AC without confusing rules variants that make armor completely disusable or making armor of a different material?

I just can't see why armor show give more of a bonus to avoid hitting than actual experience in avoiding getting hit.

Star Wars Saga Edition made it seem so simple and easy, but I can't easily make the cross-over into Rokugan when DMing for players who only know 3.5.
narukagami
02-02-08, 03:05 PM Wait, are you looking for ways to get a better AC without armor? Or just in general?

If the latter, the same way you get a better AC in normal D&D. Magic items, magic armor, ect.

If the former, use class bonus to AC (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/defenseBonus.htm) variant rules. I also recommend coupling it with Armor as DR (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/armorAsDamageReduction.htm) to avoid skyrocketing ACs.
RoyalBlueEyes
02-02-08, 05:05 PM I've looked at this, but it presents many issues, at least in my mind (mainly because it is a variant rule) but also as they may completely void the use of armor (as presented in Unearthed Arcana).
Mainly it's the fact that it's a throwback to the "glorious" days of the RCR Star Wars days, the Armor as DR variant, that is.
Incorporating both would force me to print out multiple tables of revisions to armor and defense bonuses.

Incorporating both, I think, is a good idea, but then I must wonder why classes that wear no armor are less adequate at defense than those who wear heavier armor.
narukagami
02-02-08, 05:35 PM Because classes who wear no armor aren't trained to fight in the thick of combat, why should they be better at defense than highly trained warriors?

As for armor as DR, I think it has more to do with the fact that THATS HOW ARMOR ACTUALLY WORKS than anything, really.

EDIT: I reread the rules and forgot that Class bonus doesn't stack with armor. I was thinking of d20 Modern's Defense rules.
RoyalBlueEyes
02-05-08, 10:15 PM But what about monks, who are best without armor?
They can dodge, but they get no DR.

Also, per what the site says, one gets to choose between the Armor AC and the Class AC, but gains the DR regardless of which is higher.

But let me debate with you, because I get this feeling that you also have played at least one of the Onimusha games. Though, granted, I may be wrong.

In Genma Onimusha, Samanosuke gains Holy Armor and Great Armor, BUT he also gains a metal armor, a ninja suit, and Ogre Armor.
The Ogre Armor being the best armor Samanosuke can wear, it is magical O-yoroi (great armor), whereas the rest of the armor is a cross between half-plate and Partial Armor.

In Onimusha 2, 3, and Dawn of Dreams; the characters are bound in one suite of armor, and their armor gets improved.

I find it more heroic for the PC's to stay in one suit of armor, which becomes as much a trademark of them, as their weapon of choice.

While DnD is based on such medieval myths as Beowulf, a hero who went through swords in his epic quest.
Onimusha is about collecting weapons which will be of use at various point in the game, later on.

So...how do I make that one set of armor important? There's a feat in Magic of Rokugan that allows characters with Iron Will and/or Ancestral Daisho property to choose one more item (weapon or armor) to be able to gain the same benefits from?

And what is the real benefit from giving PCs a magical armor in a game where the armor is only good for minimal amounts of AC, DR, and in some cases SR?
narukagami
02-05-08, 10:59 PM For clarity, what is it your looking for exactly? Color me confused, but you want the characters to have their own class defense bonuses while keeping armor a significant factor, yes? Forget the UA rules, then, or only borrow ideas from them as you house rule.
d20 Conan has a better system than the UA one, where classes have their own dodge/parry (two different defenses in that system) and a better armor as DR system. But it gets more complicated as weapons also have an armor penetrating factor. Its more realistic than straight D&D, but its also more complicated.

But what about monks, who are best without armor? Monks get several bonuses on top of their class bonus, that may have been the logic used to shaft them as per standard D&D design practices. :P

They can dodge, but they get no DR. Because its part of the monk's shtick to dodge well, not absorb blows.

But let me debate with you, because I get this feeling that you also have played at least one of the Onimusha games. Though, granted, I may be wrong. Played the whole series, actually, I'm a big fan. :D

So...how do I make that one set of armor important? There's a feat in Magic of Rokugan that allows characters with Iron Will and/or Ancestral Daisho property to choose one more item (weapon or armor) to be able to gain the same benefits from?

And what is the real benefit from giving PCs a magical armor in a game where the armor is only good for minimal amounts of AC, DR, and in some cases SR? Weapons of Legacy, quite possibly one of the best books WotC ever produced. The whole point of the book is making legendary weapons with epic backstories that grow in power as the character levels. By the book's RAW there are costs associated with having a Legacy item (such as taking a hit to HP, saves, or to-hit), but the experiences of other board members tells me its not unbalancing at all to ignore those penalties. It also contains rules for characters to found their own Legacy items. Its great stuff, I'd look into it. It might solve most, if not all, your problems.

As for the UA alternate rules, again, if you don't find them to your liking modify them. As I said the d20 Conan RPG has a complicated but great system.

Another thought that just crossed my mind is to have class, dex, and dodge bonuses still count towards AC (change to Defense, for purposes of this idea), possibly also have shield bonuses also count towards it, and not have armor count towards Defense at all. Instead, armor, natural armor, deflection, and the like provide straight DR.
Don't change the numbers, for example, partial armor is still a +4 bonus. But instead of that +4 bonus applying to defense, its straight up DR. Most of those AC boosting magic items would thus provide more DR. Magic armor thus would have a bigger DR bonus. Though now that I think about it, you'll probably end up in the end with characters walking around with DRs of like, 15/-.

Or, on the other hand, mess with the class bonus to defense numbers, let it stack with armor, and find a good balance so you're not getting exorbitant ACs at low levels.
RoyalBlueEyes
02-06-08, 06:26 PM Thank you again for the response Narukagami, but let me clarify, if I can.
I am torn between the desire to play regular DnD (another magical full plate? Let's see how much it's worth!) and a version similar to the sequels of Onimusha.

In Onimusha 1; Samanosuke gained new armors.
Afterwards armor became upgradeable.

It provided a better DR to attacks dealt to the characters, and made the armor that the character wore as influential as the weapon they used.

But how do you make the PCs stay in the same armor throughout the campaign? You make it better so that they don't look into new armor. I want to give them the option to choose, but I want both sides to be worthy choices.
Thus I must make the armor they have upgradeable, or find some other way to keep the players in their armor.
So, should I just give them a version of the ancestral daisho trait and allow them to apply it to their armor? Or what?
narukagami
02-06-08, 06:55 PM Oh, ok, I think I get it now.

Well, there is the Soul Forge feat, all it requires is either Iron Will or the samurai's AD ability. It'll allow your players to upgrade a masterwork weapon or armor in the same manner as their AD.
Or, using Weapons of Legacy, give them each a suit of armor statted up as a Legacy item (which grow in power as the characters do).
RoyalBlueEyes
02-07-08, 08:05 AM Exactly what I meant (I do own Magic of Rokugan).
Thinking on it, it does make more sense in that you could say in the Onimusha multi-uni-paradoxical-verse, Jubei Yagyu, being a samurai, had access to the AD ability, and thus could take it; whereas Samanosuke probably had to take the Iron Will feat because he had become a ronin, or that he had "atoned" if such a thing were possible in Rokugan.
It also explains (or is easier to explain) for why Oyu, Magoichi, Kotaro, and Ekei could not upgrade their weapons and armor.

That makes perfect sense, so that I do not have to implement any house rules to boost AC. Or at least it does for now.

Allow me to go off-topic with you, Narukagami:
In my game, I plan to allow the players access to magic gauntlets, to give them the ability to apply their AD trait to Magical Oni weapons and to actually deal damage to the Genma (since I want the Genma to be viewed as worse than the Shadowlands Oni).
Do you agree or disagree? More specifically, do you think that is a tasteful way to start an Onimusha-themed Rokugan campaign? "You can't kill these creatures because you lack the special powers to."
The precedent is set by Onimusha 1, but discontinued in the sequels. Even Jacques killed a few Genma with his assault rifle in Paris.

On Weapons of Legacy, I'll consider for the Oni weapons instead of the armor, because the armor characters wear usually isn't as filled with legacy as, say, the Oni-weapons.
narukagami
02-07-08, 06:07 PM Allow me to go off-topic with you, Narukagami:
In my game, I plan to allow the players access to magic gauntlets, to give them the ability to apply their AD trait to Magical Oni weapons and to actually deal damage to the Genma (since I want the Genma to be viewed as worse than the Shadowlands Oni).
Do you agree or disagree? More specifically, do you think that is a tasteful way to start an Onimusha-themed Rokugan campaign? "You can't kill these creatures because you lack the special powers to."
The precedent is set by Onimusha 1, but discontinued in the sequels. Even Jacques killed a few Genma with his assault rifle in Paris. The way I look at it, if you to translate the game terms to D&D terms, the Genma had DR#/Magic. Thus, they were hard to almost impossible to kill without magic weapons unless you could deal huge amounts of damage. No one on Onimusha's Earth had magic weapons, except those with Oni powers. So the only people who could overcome the DR and deal normal damage to them were those with Oni powers. Otherwise, they'd have to try and deal large amounts of damage. Jacques and the people of the modern world could at least fight back because they had high damage weapons (by d20 Modern rules, most assault rifles will do 2d6, 2d8, or 2d10 damage, and a Burst Fire increases the amount of damage dice). Keep in mind most of the Oni the French were fighting were low level grunts. The bigger ones, like bosses, I doubt they could even hurt, as they'd have higher DR and HP. Musashi (in the Dawn of Dreams prequel manga) didn't have oni power, but could defeat the Genma because he was INSANELY strong. Follow me?

For your purposes, you could give the Genma DR#/Oni Power. So the gauntlets could give the characters the ability that any attack they make counts as having "Oni Power" for purposes of overcoming DR.

On Weapons of Legacy, I'll consider for the Oni weapons instead of the armor, because the armor characters wear usually isn't as filled with legacy as, say, the Oni-weapons. While you will find many more myths about special weapons than armor, I wouldn't totally count them out. Regardless its still a great book and will at least be good for the weapons.
RoyalBlueEyes
02-08-08, 11:34 AM Dawn of Dreams prequel manga? Is that the one that starts off with Akane Yagyu getting the name Jubei?
And then is Musashi in the second one? (Don't have it). I hope Capcom retained his likeness from Onimusha Blade Warriors.

Anyhoo; in such instances as the Ogre Armor (which I will be bringing back), finding out the legacy of such a thing seems like it would take to long in a campaign that does not all ready unfold onto it. The whole process of expending gold to uncover in a ritual seems like it may take too long, as compared to Rokugan's EXP cost to increase the Daisho, and then the Soulforge feat.

Ultimately, this comes down to how battle intensive my campaign is. I want it to have action, but also moments where say, a Courtier could be of use. Or some such.

But I hesitate to use Legacy Items, solely because of the cost of time and Player Resources in uncovering their legacy. 22,500 Koku/Gold in payment for a ritual to uncover the least legacy of a weapon? It's a bit steep.
narukagami
02-08-08, 01:57 PM But I hesitate to use Legacy Items, solely because of the cost of time and Player Resources in uncovering their legacy. 22,500 Koku/Gold in payment for a ritual to uncover the least legacy of a weapon? It's a bit steep. 22k for least? Must be a typo, it should be 2k. But anyway, you don't have to have the legacy founding to be a big ordeal, if you wanted you could just have a scroll sitting right there with the weapon outlining the history and rituals, and the "rituals" don't have to be a big deal, just tie them to events you were going to have happen in the campaign anyway.

Or, just take the idea, convert the GP costs to XP, and omit the history/ritual parts and just use it as a "weapons that level" system.
narukagami
02-08-08, 02:00 PM Dawn of Dreams prequel manga? Is that the one that starts off with Akane Yagyu getting the name Jubei?
And then is Musashi in the second one? (Don't have it). I hope Capcom retained his likeness from Onimusha Blade Warriors. They actually made him look quite a bit different, I kind of like the new design, though. But yes, Musashi appears in the 2nd volume. Note though: There is only 2 volumes, it never got finished, and the manga introduces many new plotpoints and characters that aren't in the game at all. I was actually enjoying it quite a bit and was rather angry to find out you're left hanging as to the rest of the manga's story.
RoyalBlueEyes
02-08-08, 02:06 PM They actually made him look quite a bit different, I kind of like the new design, though. But yes, Musashi appears in the 2nd volume. Note though: There is only 2 volumes, it never got finished, and the manga introduces many new plotpoints and characters that aren't in the game at all. I was actually enjoying it quite a bit and was rather angry to find out you're left hanging as to the rest of the manga's story.

WHAT?!
You've got to be kidding me!
Why?
narukagami
02-08-08, 02:13 PM WHAT?!
You've got to be kidding me!
Why? That was my reaction, too.

But as far as I can tell, one of two reasons:
1) It didn't sell well, so it got dropped.
or
2) It was meant to be a game tie-in, and the game is the rest of the story. Which, if true, is quite possibly the most idiotic thing I've heard since GW decided to drop the Dark Heresy RPG after finding out it became such smash hit and made them so much money their stockholders jumped with joy. If you're going to make the story a tie-in to the game, DON'T INTRODUCE A BUNCH OF NEW (and rather interesting) CHARACTERS AND PLOT POINTS TO THE STORY THAT AREN'T IN THE GAME YOU'RE LEADING UP TO!

*whew* Rant over.
RoyalBlueEyes
02-08-08, 03:56 PM Narukagami, welcome to my buddy list, and let's continue this discussion via PMs.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RoyalBlueEyes 02-02-08, 02:39 PM	How do you improve Armor Class in Oriental Games, Rokugan, etc Is there any way to improve AC without confusing rules variants that make armor completely disusable or making armor of a different material? I just can't see why armor show give more of a bonus to avoid hitting than actual experience in avoiding getting hit. Star Wars Saga Edition made it seem so simple and easy, but I can't easily make the cross-over into Rokugan when DMing for players who only know 3.5.
narukagami 02-02-08, 03:05 PM	Wait, are you looking for ways to get a better AC without armor? Or just in general? If the latter, the same way you get a better AC in normal D&D. Magic items, magic armor, ect. If the former, use class bonus to AC (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/defenseBonus.htm) variant rules. I also recommend coupling it with Armor as DR (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/armorAsDamageReduction.htm) to avoid skyrocketing ACs.
RoyalBlueEyes 02-02-08, 05:05 PM	I've looked at this, but it presents many issues, at least in my mind (mainly because it is a variant rule) but also as they may completely void the use of armor (as presented in Unearthed Arcana). Mainly it's the fact that it's a throwback to the "glorious" days of the RCR Star Wars days, the Armor as DR variant, that is. Incorporating both would force me to print out multiple tables of revisions to armor and defense bonuses. Incorporating both, I think, is a good idea, but then I must wonder why classes that wear no armor are less adequate at defense than those who wear heavier armor.
narukagami 02-02-08, 05:35 PM	Because classes who wear no armor aren't trained to fight in the thick of combat, why should they be better at defense than highly trained warriors? As for armor as DR, I think it has more to do with the fact that THATS HOW ARMOR ACTUALLY WORKS than anything, really. EDIT: I reread the rules and forgot that Class bonus doesn't stack with armor. I was thinking of d20 Modern's Defense rules.
RoyalBlueEyes 02-05-08, 10:15 PM	But what about monks, who are best without armor? They can dodge, but they get no DR. Also, per what the site says, one gets to choose between the Armor AC and the Class AC, but gains the DR regardless of which is higher. But let me debate with you, because I get this feeling that you also have played at least one of the Onimusha games. Though, granted, I may be wrong. In Genma Onimusha, Samanosuke gains Holy Armor and Great Armor, BUT he also gains a metal armor, a ninja suit, and Ogre Armor. The Ogre Armor being the best armor Samanosuke can wear, it is magical O-yoroi (great armor), whereas the rest of the armor is a cross between half-plate and Partial Armor. In Onimusha 2, 3, and Dawn of Dreams; the characters are bound in one suite of armor, and their armor gets improved. I find it more heroic for the PC's to stay in one suit of armor, which becomes as much a trademark of them, as their weapon of choice. While DnD is based on such medieval myths as Beowulf, a hero who went through swords in his epic quest. Onimusha is about collecting weapons which will be of use at various point in the game, later on. So...how do I make that one set of armor important? There's a feat in Magic of Rokugan that allows characters with Iron Will and/or Ancestral Daisho property to choose one more item (weapon or armor) to be able to gain the same benefits from? And what is the real benefit from giving PCs a magical armor in a game where the armor is only good for minimal amounts of AC, DR, and in some cases SR?
narukagami 02-05-08, 10:59 PM	For clarity, what is it your looking for exactly? Color me confused, but you want the characters to have their own class defense bonuses while keeping armor a significant factor, yes? Forget the UA rules, then, or only borrow ideas from them as you house rule. d20 Conan has a better system than the UA one, where classes have their own dodge/parry (two different defenses in that system) and a better armor as DR system. But it gets more complicated as weapons also have an armor penetrating factor. Its more realistic than straight D&D, but its also more complicated. But what about monks, who are best without armor? Monks get several bonuses on top of their class bonus, that may have been the logic used to shaft them as per standard D&D design practices. :P They can dodge, but they get no DR. Because its part of the monk's shtick to dodge well, not absorb blows. But let me debate with you, because I get this feeling that you also have played at least one of the Onimusha games. Though, granted, I may be wrong. Played the whole series, actually, I'm a big fan. :D So...how do I make that one set of armor important? There's a feat in Magic of Rokugan that allows characters with Iron Will and/or Ancestral Daisho property to choose one more item (weapon or armor) to be able to gain the same benefits from? And what is the real benefit from giving PCs a magical armor in a game where the armor is only good for minimal amounts of AC, DR, and in some cases SR? Weapons of Legacy, quite possibly one of the best books WotC ever produced. The whole point of the book is making legendary weapons with epic backstories that grow in power as the character levels. By the book's RAW there are costs associated with having a Legacy item (such as taking a hit to HP, saves, or to-hit), but the experiences of other board members tells me its not unbalancing at all to ignore those penalties. It also contains rules for characters to found their own Legacy items. Its great stuff, I'd look into it. It might solve most, if not all, your problems. As for the UA alternate rules, again, if you don't find them to your liking modify them. As I said the d20 Conan RPG has a complicated but great system. Another thought that just crossed my mind is to have class, dex, and dodge bonuses still count towards AC (change to Defense, for purposes of this idea), possibly also have shield bonuses also count towards it, and not have armor count towards Defense at all. Instead, armor, natural armor, deflection, and the like provide straight DR. Don't change the numbers, for example, partial armor is still a +4 bonus. But instead of that +4 bonus applying to defense, its straight up DR. Most of those AC boosting magic items would thus provide more DR. Magic armor thus would have a bigger DR bonus. Though now that I think about it, you'll probably end up in the end with characters walking around with DRs of like, 15/-. Or, on the other hand, mess with the class bonus to defense numbers, let it stack with armor, and find a good balance so you're not getting exorbitant ACs at low levels.
RoyalBlueEyes 02-06-08, 06:26 PM	Thank you again for the response Narukagami, but let me clarify, if I can. I am torn between the desire to play regular DnD (another magical full plate? Let's see how much it's worth!) and a version similar to the sequels of Onimusha. In Onimusha 1; Samanosuke gained new armors. Afterwards armor became upgradeable. It provided a better DR to attacks dealt to the characters, and made the armor that the character wore as influential as the weapon they used. But how do you make the PCs stay in the same armor throughout the campaign? You make it better so that they don't look into new armor. I want to give them the option to choose, but I want both sides to be worthy choices. Thus I must make the armor they have upgradeable, or find some other way to keep the players in their armor. So, should I just give them a version of the ancestral daisho trait and allow them to apply it to their armor? Or what?
narukagami 02-06-08, 06:55 PM	Oh, ok, I think I get it now. Well, there is the Soul Forge feat, all it requires is either Iron Will or the samurai's AD ability. It'll allow your players to upgrade a masterwork weapon or armor in the same manner as their AD. Or, using Weapons of Legacy, give them each a suit of armor statted up as a Legacy item (which grow in power as the characters do).
RoyalBlueEyes 02-07-08, 08:05 AM	Exactly what I meant (I do own Magic of Rokugan). Thinking on it, it does make more sense in that you could say in the Onimusha multi-uni-paradoxical-verse, Jubei Yagyu, being a samurai, had access to the AD ability, and thus could take it; whereas Samanosuke probably had to take the Iron Will feat because he had become a ronin, or that he had "atoned" if such a thing were possible in Rokugan. It also explains (or is easier to explain) for why Oyu, Magoichi, Kotaro, and Ekei could not upgrade their weapons and armor. That makes perfect sense, so that I do not have to implement any house rules to boost AC. Or at least it does for now. Allow me to go off-topic with you, Narukagami: In my game, I plan to allow the players access to magic gauntlets, to give them the ability to apply their AD trait to Magical Oni weapons and to actually deal damage to the Genma (since I want the Genma to be viewed as worse than the Shadowlands Oni). Do you agree or disagree? More specifically, do you think that is a tasteful way to start an Onimusha-themed Rokugan campaign? "You can't kill these creatures because you lack the special powers to." The precedent is set by Onimusha 1, but discontinued in the sequels. Even Jacques killed a few Genma with his assault rifle in Paris. On Weapons of Legacy, I'll consider for the Oni weapons instead of the armor, because the armor characters wear usually isn't as filled with legacy as, say, the Oni-weapons.
narukagami 02-07-08, 06:07 PM	Allow me to go off-topic with you, Narukagami: In my game, I plan to allow the players access to magic gauntlets, to give them the ability to apply their AD trait to Magical Oni weapons and to actually deal damage to the Genma (since I want the Genma to be viewed as worse than the Shadowlands Oni). Do you agree or disagree? More specifically, do you think that is a tasteful way to start an Onimusha-themed Rokugan campaign? "You can't kill these creatures because you lack the special powers to." The precedent is set by Onimusha 1, but discontinued in the sequels. Even Jacques killed a few Genma with his assault rifle in Paris. The way I look at it, if you to translate the game terms to D&D terms, the Genma had DR#/Magic. Thus, they were hard to almost impossible to kill without magic weapons unless you could deal huge amounts of damage. No one on Onimusha's Earth had magic weapons, except those with Oni powers. So the only people who could overcome the DR and deal normal damage to them were those with Oni powers. Otherwise, they'd have to try and deal large amounts of damage. Jacques and the people of the modern world could at least fight back because they had high damage weapons (by d20 Modern rules, most assault rifles will do 2d6, 2d8, or 2d10 damage, and a Burst Fire increases the amount of damage dice). Keep in mind most of the Oni the French were fighting were low level grunts. The bigger ones, like bosses, I doubt they could even hurt, as they'd have higher DR and HP. Musashi (in the Dawn of Dreams prequel manga) didn't have oni power, but could defeat the Genma because he was INSANELY strong. Follow me? For your purposes, you could give the Genma DR#/Oni Power. So the gauntlets could give the characters the ability that any attack they make counts as having "Oni Power" for purposes of overcoming DR. On Weapons of Legacy, I'll consider for the Oni weapons instead of the armor, because the armor characters wear usually isn't as filled with legacy as, say, the Oni-weapons. While you will find many more myths about special weapons than armor, I wouldn't totally count them out. Regardless its still a great book and will at least be good for the weapons.
RoyalBlueEyes 02-08-08, 11:34 AM	Dawn of Dreams prequel manga? Is that the one that starts off with Akane Yagyu getting the name Jubei? And then is Musashi in the second one? (Don't have it). I hope Capcom retained his likeness from Onimusha Blade Warriors. Anyhoo; in such instances as the Ogre Armor (which I will be bringing back), finding out the legacy of such a thing seems like it would take to long in a campaign that does not all ready unfold onto it. The whole process of expending gold to uncover in a ritual seems like it may take too long, as compared to Rokugan's EXP cost to increase the Daisho, and then the Soulforge feat. Ultimately, this comes down to how battle intensive my campaign is. I want it to have action, but also moments where say, a Courtier could be of use. Or some such. But I hesitate to use Legacy Items, solely because of the cost of time and Player Resources in uncovering their legacy. 22,500 Koku/Gold in payment for a ritual to uncover the least legacy of a weapon? It's a bit steep.
narukagami 02-08-08, 01:57 PM	But I hesitate to use Legacy Items, solely because of the cost of time and Player Resources in uncovering their legacy. 22,500 Koku/Gold in payment for a ritual to uncover the least legacy of a weapon? It's a bit steep. 22k for least? Must be a typo, it should be 2k. But anyway, you don't have to have the legacy founding to be a big ordeal, if you wanted you could just have a scroll sitting right there with the weapon outlining the history and rituals, and the "rituals" don't have to be a big deal, just tie them to events you were going to have happen in the campaign anyway. Or, just take the idea, convert the GP costs to XP, and omit the history/ritual parts and just use it as a "weapons that level" system.
narukagami 02-08-08, 02:00 PM	Dawn of Dreams prequel manga? Is that the one that starts off with Akane Yagyu getting the name Jubei? And then is Musashi in the second one? (Don't have it). I hope Capcom retained his likeness from Onimusha Blade Warriors. They actually made him look quite a bit different, I kind of like the new design, though. But yes, Musashi appears in the 2nd volume. Note though: There is only 2 volumes, it never got finished, and the manga introduces many new plotpoints and characters that aren't in the game at all. I was actually enjoying it quite a bit and was rather angry to find out you're left hanging as to the rest of the manga's story.
RoyalBlueEyes 02-08-08, 02:06 PM	They actually made him look quite a bit different, I kind of like the new design, though. But yes, Musashi appears in the 2nd volume. Note though: There is only 2 volumes, it never got finished, and the manga introduces many new plotpoints and characters that aren't in the game at all. I was actually enjoying it quite a bit and was rather angry to find out you're left hanging as to the rest of the manga's story. WHAT?! You've got to be kidding me! Why?
narukagami 02-08-08, 02:13 PM	WHAT?! You've got to be kidding me! Why? That was my reaction, too. But as far as I can tell, one of two reasons: 1) It didn't sell well, so it got dropped. or 2) It was meant to be a game tie-in, and the game is the rest of the story. Which, if true, is quite possibly the most idiotic thing I've heard since GW decided to drop the Dark Heresy RPG after finding out it became such smash hit and made them so much money their stockholders jumped with joy. If you're going to make the story a tie-in to the game, DON'T INTRODUCE A BUNCH OF NEW (and rather interesting) CHARACTERS AND PLOT POINTS TO THE STORY THAT AREN'T IN THE GAME YOU'RE LEADING UP TO! whew Rant over.
RoyalBlueEyes 02-08-08, 03:56 PM	Narukagami, welcome to my buddy list, and let's continue this discussion via PMs.