Post/Author/DateTime	Post
KidChainsaw 04-14-07, 11:38 PM	Ok, after ingesting enough caffeine to kill a small elephant and spending about eight hours watching back to back wuxia movies, I got it into my head to put together a D&D campaign loosely based on medieval/ancient China. I've seen all kinds of movies. I have the 3.0 OA and have an idea of what I don't want to use. I plan on using Book of Nine Swords and the Asian style classes from the Complete books. I'm not all that concerned about historical accuracy, I just would like a little direction on where to go for research and a few ideas to flesh it out some. Any help, suggestions, or comments would be greatly appreciated.
narukagami 04-15-07, 12:46 AM	Ok, after ingesting enough caffeine to kill a small elephant and spending about eight hours watching back to back wuxia movies, I got it into my head to put together a D&D campaign loosely based on medieval/ancient China. I've seen all kinds of movies. I have the 3.0 OA and have an idea of what I don't want to use. I plan on using Book of Nine Swords and the Asian style classes from the Complete books. I'm not all that concerned about historical accuracy, I just would like a little direction on where to go for research and a few ideas to flesh it out some. Any help, suggestions, or comments would be greatly appreciated. For the love of class design and all that is sane, please don't use the CW samurai. Otherwise: I suggest Kara-tur as a backdrop. Or at least look into it for ideas for making your own.
KidChainsaw 04-15-07, 02:03 AM	As far as classes, I'm thinking of allowing.... Warblade Crusader (replacing Paladin) Swordsage Fighter (expert "mundane" warrior) Ranger (not so sure here, not sure how I want to handle divine magic yet) Barbarian Shugenja Spirit Shaman (from Complete Divine, will largely replace Clerics as I'm thinking most religion will be animistic and more about making deals with nature spirits than actual worship) Wu Jen (replaces Wizard/Sorcerer) Ninja (think lin kuei....) Monk I'll probably add to the list, though... Why shouldn't I allow the CW Samurai? I wouldn't expect it to be that popular a choice but I thought it would fit nicely as a sort of aristocratic soldier. What did you find wrong with it?
Ranger REG 04-15-07, 02:25 AM	Why shouldn't I allow the CW Samurai? I wouldn't expect it to be that popular a choice but I thought it would fit nicely as a sort of aristocratic soldier. What did you find wrong with it? Because I've watched too many live-action Taiga Dramas and TV shows from Japan (including Abarenbo Shogun) while at the same time I avoid animes depicting samurai icons using two or more swords. (A perk for living in the middle of the Pacific.) Not all samurai are two-weapon specialists, yet the CW class encourage it. It's what we call a cookie-cutter class. All samurai knows two-weapon fighting in the CW author's POV.
KidChainsaw 04-15-07, 03:28 AM	OK. Now given that most religions in the world I'm feverishly banging together revolve around ancestor worship or bargaining with/placating nature spirits, how would you handle divine magic/spellcasters?
Lord Gwydion 04-15-07, 04:17 AM	I can think of a few ideas to "rationalize" the divine caster classes off the top of my head: 1. It's magic, just of a different type than the Wu Jen casts. (a.k.a. Who needs it explained? It just works.) 2. Divine casters have a companion spirit who provides their spellcasting powers (and has no other game effect). [borrowed from Dragon Fist] 3. While most religion involves ancestor worship/placating nature spirits, there are deities up there (and down there), and can be petitioned to grant spellcasting to special individuals who work to advance their interests in the mortal realm (or business as usual for D&D divine casters).
Azzy 04-16-07, 07:49 PM	Otherwise: I suggest Kara-tur as a backdrop. Or at least look into it for ideas for making your own. Agreed, the nations of Shōu Lóng, and Tŭ Lóng both make a great backdrop for a wuxia-inspired campaign. As far as classes, I'm thinking of allowing.... Crusader (replacing Paladin) There really is no need to ditch the paladin--just reflavor and you should be good to go. Fighter (expert "mundane" warrior) I'd boost his skills to 4 per level and add Diplomacy, Knowledge (nobility and royalty), Profession and Sense Motive to the fighter's skill list. Ranger (not so sure here, not sure how I want to handle divine magic yet) Derives his power from the spirits of nature? Shugenja I don't like this class--it's too Rokugan and nothing else. [Note: please take my distaste with a grain of salt (it tastes better that way), and do what works for your game.] Spirit Shaman (from Complete Divine, will largely replace Clerics as I'm thinking most religion will be animistic and more about making deals with nature spirits than actual worship) Have you though about using the Shaman from OA? Wu Jen (replaces Wizard/Sorcerer) I'd keep the Sorcerer, and just make it use the same spell list as the Wu Jen. Ninja (think lin kuei....) Another class that I hate--the ninja concept can be fulfilled with a number of different existing classes (there was no need to create a new class). I'll probably add to the list, though... The Sohei from OA? Why shouldn't I allow the CW Samurai? I wouldn't expect it to be that popular a choice but I thought it would fit nicely as a sort of aristocratic soldier. What did you find wrong with it? First, samurai shouldn't be a class--it's merely a social status that a character of any class could be born into or earn. Secondly, the CW samurai is a poorly designed set of mechanics that shoe-horns a social position into a one-trick-pony class. I'm none too fond of the ninja class either. OK. Now given that most religions in the world I'm feverishly banging together revolve around ancestor worship or bargaining with/placating nature spirits, how would you handle divine magic/spellcasters? I fully agree with Lord Gwydion on this subject.
ZenZ 04-17-07, 12:19 AM	The role-playing game "Qin" might prove to be nice source material for you. I also believe Avalanche Press had a d20 game supplement out for China. I don't recall the name but it had a soft "R" rated cover that foolishly featured a gal cradling a katanna.
Daydreamer 04-17-07, 12:56 AM	i like the CW samuri actually, whats especially cool is the staredown effect... with roleplaying you can turn this into a cultures respect for the samuri as a master warrior. People quivering int here boots when having to face a talented samuri can be really played up. Though i do understand why people have a problem with it.
heretic888 04-17-07, 09:56 AM	Okay, with all due respect.... If you're going to allow the Swordsage, there is absolutely no reason to have the CV Ninja. A Shadow Hand focused Swordsage is better at what the CV Ninja does than the CV Ninja, plus he can still do other things (like not getting killed in a toe-to-toe melee fight) to boot. In my opinion the Swordsage (with one more high save, better hit die, equal skill points, better AC bonus, and access to the Shadow Hand discipline) completely supplants the CV Ninja in campaigns that allow both. Same deal with the CW Samurai. While it goes without saying that the Fighter is already better than the CW Samurai, the Warblade is really better than the CW Samurai. Just focus on the Iron Heart and Diamond Mind disciplines (with maybe a sprinkle of Tiger Claw for two-weapon fighting) and you're all set. Someone mentioned something about the CW Samurai's staredown abilities. Honestly, these abilities suck. The DC is too low to be of any use at the levels you gain them. In my opinion, the Ki Shout feat chain in OA is just as good if not better. There is also the Duel of Wills use for the Intimidate skill in ToB that overlaps this area thematically. Of course, you should still keep the Fighter even if the Warblade is around. If nothing else, at least for a two-to-four level dip and entryway to prestige classes. Which, in all truth, has always been the Fighter's role in 3rd edition.
Ranger REG 04-18-07, 02:45 AM	A controversial question: Are ToB:BoNS classes better than OA classes?
Rowan_Whispercloak 04-18-07, 12:56 PM	A controversial question: Are ToB:BoNS classes better than OA classes? I'd say different, not really better. I really like the sohei, however I found the the samurai (OA version) relies on DM to keep them from complete outshining the fighter (I know not a difficult thing to do).
Occam 04-20-07, 05:12 PM	As far as classes, I'm thinking of allowing.... Warblade Crusader (replacing Paladin) Swordsage Fighter (expert "mundane" warrior) Ranger (not so sure here, not sure how I want to handle divine magic yet) I use the scout instead of the ranger for OA, partially to avoid that spellcasting. Barbarian Shugenja Spirit Shaman (from Complete Divine, will largely replace Clerics as I'm thinking most religion will be animistic and more about making deals with nature spirits than actual worship) Wu Jen (replaces Wizard/Sorcerer) Ninja (think lin kuei....) Monk I'll probably add to the list, though... Why shouldn't I allow the CW Samurai? I wouldn't expect it to be that popular a choice but I thought it would fit nicely as a sort of aristocratic soldier. What did you find wrong with it? It's a caricature; at best, it's a concept for a prestige class. In fact, there's already a dual-sword-wielding samurai PrC in OA (niten master, IIRC).
Darth Sephiroth 04-22-07, 08:29 PM	For the Ranger take a glance at the CW Spellless Ranger and look for the Martial Adept Ranger on the class boards if you don't want to go with "magical abilities". Another option would be to treat the spells as other abilities that aren't magical and modify the spell list for that sort of thing.
narukagami 04-22-07, 08:55 PM	For the Ranger take a glance at the CW Spellless Ranger and look for the Martial Adept Ranger on the class boards if you don't want to go with "magical abilities". Another option would be to treat the spells as other abilities that aren't magical and modify the spell list for that sort of thing. Another alternative is the Rokugan ranger variant where you gain a Fighter bonus feat every time you would gain access to a new spell level.
Hochiu 04-22-07, 10:48 PM	Or because either option for the ranger, the feats-per-spellcasting level and the spell-less variant, fall fairly far behind most other classes, you could combine both concepts. If you have the inclination, an additional combat focus would be interesting, I typically work around a spear-use ranger.
Darth Sephiroth 04-23-07, 12:35 AM	Perhaps a few others as well. Perhaps an attack boost for single weapon use. Shield feats for a sword and board, and perhaps an Unarmed chain as well