Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sleepwalker13666 08-06-07, 05:57 PM	This class was designed for my game a while back and like many of my previous classes I felt I would offer it up to the community, as always feedback good or bad is welcome and as always I will be happy to make changes if I like a suggestion or I feel it makes more sense Kensei The kensei is a master of their blades without equal. Many seek other known kensei to pursue their art through duels. Kensei unlock secrets of their ancestral blades as the master their skill. Adventurers: Kensei are usually traveling between towns and cities looking for the next challenger, though usually loners, Kensei have been known to travel with other adventurers for not all battles a kensei endures will be honorable duals. Races: Most kensei are human, few other races with their longer lived lives wish to pick up the sword in constantly engage in fatally dangerous duels. Religion: Kensei prefer philosophy over gods, they often pay homage to spirits and ancestors, but rarely choose a take up devotion to a God or Goddess. Other Classes: Kensei rarely travel with other melee classes, though there have been exceptions (usually with friendly or bitter competition between the two). Alignment: Any lawful Hit Dice: 1d10 Skills per Level: 4+Int per level, x4 at level 1. Class Skills: Bluff (Cha) Climb (str) Craft (Int) Diplomacy (Cha) Gather Information (Cha) Iajutsu Focus (cha) Intimidate (Cha) Jump (Str) Listen (wis) Sense Motive (Wis) Spot (Wis) Tumble (Dex) Weapon/Armor Proficiencies: Kensei are proficient in one sword, usually the katana, further unless the sword is their personal ancestral weapon, even if it is a weapon they are proficient in, they are at a -2 to wield it. Kensei are not proficient in armor, but as they level they become masters unarmored combat. Lv Att Fort Refl Will Special 01) +1 +2 +2 +0 Ancestral Blade, Quick Draw 02) +2 +3 +3 +0 Weapon Secret (+1), Zanshin Mastery (Wis to Ac) 03) +3 +3 +3 +1 Bonus Feat, Zanshin Mastery (Dex to Ac) 04) +4 +4 +4 +1 Weapon Secret (+2), Weapon Specialization 05) +5 +4 +4 +1 Evasion, Unarmored Ac +1 06) +6/+1 +5 +5 +2 Weapon Secret (+3), Bonus Feat 07) +7/+2 +5 +5 +2 Ki Strike (1 xday) 08) +8/+3 +6 +6 +2 Weapon Secret (+4) 09) +9/+4 +6 +6 +3 Zanshin Mastery (No Flank), Bonus Feat 10) +10/+5 +7 +7 +3 Weapon Secret (+5), Unarmored Ac +2 11) +11/+6/+1 +7 +7 +3 Combat Acrobat 12) +12/+7/+2 +8 +8 +4 Weapon Secret (+6), Bonus Feat 13) +13/+8/+3 +8 +8 +4 Ki Strike (2 xday) 14) +14/+9/+4 +9 +9 +4 Weapon Secret (+7) 15) +15/+10/+5 +9 +9 +5 Bonus Feat, Unarmored Ac +3 16) +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +10 +5 Weapon Secret (+8) 17) +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +5 Bounding Assault 18) +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +11 +6 Weapon Secret (+9), Bonus Feat 19) +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +11 +6 Ki Strike (3 xday) 20) +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +12 +6 Weapon Secret (+10), Unarmored Ac +4 Ancestral Blade: The Kensei starts his career with a masterwork weapon that he is proficient with, this weapon is his ancestral blade, it is usually passed onto him by a former teacher, or in kensai schools a retired or slain kensei's sword will be passed onto new candidates. Kensei go through great pains to maintain and protect these swords. Should a Kensei's Ancestral Weapon be lost, stolen or destroyed he may no longer level as a kensei until it is found, recovered, or reforged, Kensei often consider it a thing of great shame for misfortune to fall upon their blades. Quick Draw: Kensei learn early on how to remove their ancestral weapons with fluid speed and grace, the kensei gains quick draw with his ancestral weapon, even if this weapon would not normally be available for the feat. Weapon Secret: As the Kensei advances he begins to understand the secrets of the blade he wields, he is able to draw upon knowledge and techniques of the previous owners as well as make his one. When wielded by the kensei, he blade takes on magical enhancements, the kensei undergoes a ritual that take one hour per kensei level, meditating and praying over his ancestral weapon, once completed his weapon has magical enhancements of the players choosing, as he levels he may swap out previous enchantments with new ones. The weapon may have a total enchantment equal to half the kensei's level, the kensei pays an experience cost to unlock these secrets. +1) 80exp +6) 2,880 exp +2) 320 exp +7) 3,920 exp +3) 720 exp +8) 5,120 exp +4) 1,280 exp +9) 6,480 exp +5) 2,000 exp +10) 8,000 exp Zanshin Mastery: The Kensei has an exception sense of perception that allows him to react to danger, at level 2 the kensei gains his wisdom bonus to Ac so long as he remains unarmored and is carrying no more than a light load, at level 3 he retains his dexterity bonus to Ac even if caught flat footed, finally at level 9 the kensei cannot longer be flanked. Bonus Feat: At levels 3, 6, 9, 12, 15 and 18 the kensei is able to master techniques to enhance his personal style, he may select any feat from the fighters or samurai's bonus list as though his was an equal level fighter. Weapon Specialization: At level 4 the kensei gains this feat for free and applies it to his ancestral weapon. Evasion: The kensei is able to react to unusual attacks with cunning grace, when making a reflex save versus an attack for partial damage, if successful instead takes no damage. Unarmored Ac: The kensei gains a bonus to Ac so long as he remains unarmored and is carrying no more than a light load. Ki Strike: The Kensei can focus Ki into his ancestral blade, and unleash devastating strikes with them. A Ki strike is performed as a standard action, the player makes an attack role, if successful the attack deals maximum damage, a player must declare he is using ki strike before the attack role is made as a failed role waste the attempt. Ki Strike only maximizes the base weapon damage, additional effects such as magical enhancements, maneuvers or Iajutsu Focus will not be maximized. Combat Acrobat: The Kensei gains the Combat acrobat Feat (see players handbook II pg. 76) as a bonus feat whether or not he meets the requirements. If the kensei already possesses this feat he may select another feat from his bonus feat list. Bounding Assault: The kensei gains the Bounding Assault Feat(see players handbook II pg. 75) as a bonus feat whether or not he meets the requirements. If the kensei already possesses this feat he may select another feat from his bonus feat list. Multi-Class Note: A player must seek a master to take levels in kensei if he does not start off as a kensei at level 1, while it is not unheard of for various warriors to take up the sword saints path, they can not do it without training. Training time is 1 month per previous level the character has, thus a 3rd level samurai must spend three months training. A kensei who multi classes cannot level as a kensai again with the exception of monk or samurai. A kensei may freely multi-class between monk and kensei even though the monk may not normally multi-class. Ex Kensai: A kensei who losses his ancestral weapon and cannot recover it can choose to become an equal level monk or fighter. A kensei who changes from his lawful alignment may not level as a kensei again, but losses no class features, should he regain his lawful alignment, he masy spend one week in training for each level he has to take the kensei's path again. A kensei who losses his ancestral weapon and does not have a lawful alignment may not change his kensei levels to monk levels. You might also enjoy: Nightshaper (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=12835104#post12835104) Geisha (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=864122)
Ecureuil_Diabolique 08-06-07, 06:13 PM	Pretty nice class, I like. Is the wisdom to AC regardless of any armor or only with a certain type (or going with unarmored like the latter ability)?
narukagami 08-06-07, 06:27 PM	Other than the classic "Why? What does this honestly add to the game that we need yet another base class?" here are my issues with the class itself: Wis to AC from zanshin awareness should be limited to light or no armor. I think Zanshin Awareness would sound better and more, whats a good word... authentic(?), and less "clunky", as just "Zanshin". It, as it is, sounds about as silly as calling a katana a "katana sword" or a yari a "yari spear". The abilities themselves seem fine, but I think they should be spaced out among the levels better. The class seems very front loaded, like it gets all its best abilities before level 10 and sticking around to level 20 is just extra. Good base class design should give you real incentive to take 20 levels in it, right now there is no reason for the last 10 levels of the class to exist except for sake of calling it a "base class".
Sleepwalker13666 08-06-07, 06:27 PM	Pretty nice class, I like. Is the wisdom to AC regardless of any armor or only with a certain type (or going with unarmored like the latter ability)? I forgot to put that, thanks for pointing that out, it's meant to be while unarmored, I'll go ahead and fix that. Thank you for your feedback.
Sleepwalker13666 08-06-07, 06:36 PM	Other than the classic "Why? What does this honestly add to the game that we need yet another base class?" here are my issues with the class itself: Wis to AC from zanshin awareness should be limited to light or no armor. I think Zanshin Awareness would sound better and more, whats a good word... authentic(?), and less "clunky", as just "Zanshin". It now sounds about as silly as calling a katana a "katana sword" or a yari a "yari spear". The abilities themselves seem fine, but I think they should be spaced out among the levels better. The class seems very front loaded, like it gets all its best abilities before level 10 and sticking around to level 20 is just extra. Good base class design should give you real incentive to take 20 levels in it, right now there is no reason for the last 10 levels of the class to exist except for sake of calling it a "base class". Thank you for your feedback, as to the "why" I made this class because i didn't like the design of the PrC, I felt it needed some work. The wisdom to Ac was a typo, like the unarmored ac you must be unarmored and carrying a light load. How about "Zanshin Mastery"? I'm open to spacing suggestions if you have any in mind, but If you have any specific grievances please let me know, it will give me a place to start.
Azzy 08-07-07, 09:42 AM	How about renaming it to "kesei"--as that's the proper transliteration for 剣聖 and all? ;)
Sleepwalker13666 08-07-07, 04:07 PM	How about renaming it to "kesei"--as that's the proper transliteration for 剣聖 and all? ;) The class or the Zanshin?
heretic888 08-07-07, 04:29 PM	The class or the Zanshin? Azzy is saying the correct transliteration is kensei, not kensai. CW had it wrong, OA had it right. ;)
Sleepwalker13666 08-07-07, 04:46 PM	Azzy is saying the correct transliteration is kensei, not kensai. CW had it wrong, OA had it right. ;) Oh, okay, I'll change it. While your here, what do you think of the class?
Ranger REG 08-08-07, 02:45 AM	While your here, what do you think of the class? Mehhh. Don't like the fact that it has (OA) samurai's Ancestral Daisho feature or somesuch clone ability. It's why I didn't stand for the CW Kensai PrC in the first place (which happens to have stolen from the CW samurai class, which is why it is left with Musashi-style two-weapon fighting feature). Then again, didn't like Kensei as a base class. Spoiled by the new OA. You could argue that the base class are for non-samurai, but then I'd rebut with "Isn't that what's the fighter class is for?"
The_Shaman 08-08-07, 09:13 AM	Actually, I would say that fighters would be exactly for characters who want to masters a weapon - or several, tactics, etc, but fighters needing a little bit extra punch is an old topic here. Sleepwalker, you might be surprised to learn that there is already a Kensei base class - it is a fighter variant that appeared in, iirc, Dragon 310 - exchanging some fighter armor proficiencies and with slightly limited bonus feat list for bonus to attack rolls and something else with a chosen weapon, or set thereof. I have not read the magazine recently. Anyway, I do not like that you get combat acrobat and bounding assault for free and without taking the prerequisites. You can just give a few more bonus feats, if you are worried about it. What else... well, having a lvl 9 kensei immune to sneak attack or flanking from epic-level rogues is a bit much imo, but it's your call. Oh yeah, you say a kensei can become a fighter or monk of equal level. So, if he does not want to, can he stay a kensei? Finally, my pet hate: why lawful? Alignment rules - actually, guidelines that do not have to be perfectly followed 24/7 - do not preclude chaotic character from having self-discipline. A restriction of "any neutral" is no less viable.
Sleepwalker13666 08-08-07, 06:56 PM	Actually, I would say that fighters would be exactly for characters who want to masters a weapon - or several, tactics, etc, but fighters needing a little bit extra punch is an old topic here. Sleepwalker, you might be surprised to learn that there is already a Kensei base class - it is a fighter variant that appeared in, iirc, Dragon 310 - exchanging some fighter armor proficiencies and with slightly limited bonus feat list for bonus to attack rolls and something else with a chosen weapon, or set thereof. I have not read the magazine recently. I remember that variant, but I didn't like it, it was just seemed to be a rehash of the PrC. Anyway, I do not like that you get combat acrobat and bounding assault for free and without taking the prerequisites. You can just give a few more bonus feats, if you are worried about it. I felt them fitting, since I gave them bonus feats off a pattern (every 3 levels I think), I didn't want just plug bonus feat into a dead level, so I chose specific feats, I am open to suggestions for alternate class features. What else... well, having a lvl 9 kensei immune to sneak attack or flanking from epic-level rogues is a bit much imo, but it's your call. Oh yeah, you say a kensei can become a fighter or monk of equal level. So, if he does not want to, can he stay a kensei? It's no different than uncanny dodge, just a different name, though I I'll take a look at the barbarian, maybe I gave them a little to soon. as to the class change, yes the kensai may be determined, no matter how unlikely, to recover his ancestral blade. Finally, my pet hate: why lawful? Alignment rules - actually, guidelines that do not have to be perfectly followed 24/7 - do not preclude chaotic character from having self-discipline. A restriction of "any neutral" is no less viable. But at the same time alignment is not a strait jacket either, you can have a lawful alignment, and still get drunk, sleep with random women or men and charge off to battle in a fit of anger, however the discipline of a kensai is like that of a monks, which is why they have the lawful alignment, it's also part of the reason they can multi-class with monks.
The_Shaman 08-10-07, 06:30 AM	But at the same time alignment is not a strait jacket either, you can have a lawful alignment, and still get drunk, sleep with random women or men and charge off to battle in a fit of anger, however the discipline of a kensai is like that of a monks, which is why they have the lawful alignment, it's also part of the reason they can multi-class with monks. Yes, kensei are about as disciplined as monks. So? As I might have implied, I find the lawful - or multiclassing- restriction for monks is no less artificial (and you lose none of the monk abilities from switching to any other alignment, so none of them are "keyed" to being lawful). Self-discipline is not exclusive to lawful characters, imo. There's nothing in the description of the alignment that completely precludes a focused and devoted approach. There are chaotic clerics, chaotic fighters (those feats don't come without hard work, you know), mages (train 2 years to cast a cantrip and then speak of discipline), psionicists, ToB initiates... All of these classes - and heck, probably going far enough in any of the others - require discipline. We can't measure it by yards and inches, but I would think that a warblade, a psion and a monk might all have to train quite seriously to reach the pinnacle of their craft. Alignment, more than anything else, seems to indicate how you interact with society. Discipline, and self-discipline in particular, is how you interact with yourself. IMO, of course. It is doubly weird as the alignment standards in the PHB itself are a bit skewed. Wizards do not care much about the outside world as they are devoted to their craft - and they are usually neutral, or at most "more likely" to be lawful than chaotic. Monks do not care much about the outside world as they are devoted to their craft - and voila, they have to be lawful. At least, they have to be lawful to gain levels. What, do they need to go to the monastery for every new level? I suppose I've been somewhat digressing, but I did tell you that it was my pet peeve.
Knitsuge 09-02-07, 08:44 PM	Hmmm... Interesting thoughts on alignment, Shaman, and while I agree with some of your thought process, I don't agree with your conclusions at all. I like your seperation of discipline and self-discipline. They really are pretty different. A person who is disciplined can be easily controlled by those who have a position of authority over him. He is not necessarily self disciplined. Take the stereotypical Marine. He is very disciplined. He will follow orders without question, down to the last detail. But is he self-disciplined? Well many Marines are, of course, but I think of again of the steroetype of a marine going to a bar, getting drunk, and picking up who knows what kind of STDs. That is certainly not self-disciplined. Now let's look at the typical law or med student. Are they self disciplined? They have to forsake almost all social life to dedicate themselves to their studies, so I would have to say yes. But are they disciplined? Well, to a point they have to be, but many future doctors and lawyers dream of changing the system, and have their own ideas. These individual may write papers that go very much against conventional thinking, and against the teacher's thinking. They may not be afraid to challenge their teachers if they think their teachers are wrong. I don't know that this is disciplined. Certainly both of these individuals COULD be lawful. Both of them could also be nuetral. I don't see how either could be chaotic, however. However, does that mean that you cannot learn and be chaotic? Certainly not! It doesn't even mean that someone in a school couldn't be chaotic, but just that you couldn't be completely deny yourself to your studies to do so. A monk is supposed to be the ideal of both discipline and self-discipline. Do the need to go to the monastery for every new level? Yes, absolutely! Maybe not the moment when you level up, but a monk should be connected to other monks and a monestary as part of his every day life. This is part of his "off screen" training. If he is not completely disciplined and self-discipline aka lawful, he is no longer worthy of being a monk, and will not be allowed to train any further along this path. Where did you think he was learning these abilities, if not from the monastery? Discipline and devotion are not the same thing, and should not be confused as such. Someone can be devoted to fighting and not disciplined, as such. A fighter does NOT have to be disciplined, as long as he is devoted. A disciplined fighter would allow a teacher to spend hours and hours training him how to do a particular thing. A self-disciplined fighter might study a particular move and spend hours and hours perfecting it, examining what he is doing right, and what he is doing wrong. A chaotic fighter, on the other hand, may practice it when he feels like it, try it out in battle and fail many times (before he levels up, of course, where as the disciplined fighter never actually tried it in battle until he was sure he could do it), and finally starts to get it right when he levels up. Really lawful vs. chaotic boils down to whether or not you believe there is only one right way of doing anything. If you believe that there is only one right way of doing anything, no matter if that right way is determined by you, your superior, or a religious belief, you are going to be lawful. If you believe there could always be several right ways of doing things, you are probably nuetral. If you believe there are very few, if any, wrong ways of doing something, you are chaotic. Why do monks have to be lawful and wizards don't, despite them both not caring about the outside world? Well, for one, monks DO care about an outside world beyond themselves, that is their fellow monks and their beliefs. But it is also because the monk believes there is only one path to their goal, while a wizard may feel free to experiment in all sorts of ways. I would keep the alignment, Sleepwalker. It seems appropriate. I also like the idea of them being able to cross-class with a monk.
Sleepwalker13666 09-02-07, 09:00 PM	I would keep the alignment, Sleepwalker. It seems appropriate. I also like the idea of them being able to cross-class with a monk. Thank you. :D
Sleepwalker13666 09-02-07, 09:01 PM	Mehhh. Don't like the fact that it has (OA) samurai's Ancestral Daisho feature or somesuch clone ability. It's why I didn't stand for the CW Kensai PrC in the first place (which happens to have stolen from the CW samurai class, which is why it is left with Musashi-style two-weapon fighting feature). Then again, didn't like Kensei as a base class. Spoiled by the new OA. You could argue that the base class are for non-samurai, but then I'd rebut with "Isn't that what's the fighter class is for?" One idea I've had, though this will take awhile to develop, is to make the ancestral daisho function more like a legacy weapon.
narukagami 09-02-07, 09:15 PM	One idea I've had, though this will take awhile to develop, is to make the ancestral daisho function more like a legacy weapon. Allot of people have had this idea in the early days of WoL's release (don't worry, we didn't expect you to know that, that was a long time ago). But the major problem that arises is, in the end, it cheapens the concept of Legacy items. Heavily modifying the WoL mechanics in an attempt to alleviate this is difficult, as one has to be careful to not totally overshadow the WoL mechanics as a whole while making it worthwhile for a PC to have. To be honest, I've grow to dislike the WoL penalty mechanics, they're far to severe for what you get in return, and should be lightened heavily, if not scrapped altogether. But thats for another topic.
Sleepwalker13666 09-02-07, 09:48 PM	Allot of people have had this idea in the early days of WoL's release (don't worry, we didn't expect you to know that, that was a long time ago). But the major problem that arises is, in the end, it cheapens the concept of Legacy items. Heavily modifying the WoL mechanics in an attempt to alleviate this is difficult, as one has to be careful to not totally overshadow the WoL mechanics as a whole while making it worthwhile for a PC to have. That's the problem I foresaw myself.
Knitsuge 09-02-07, 10:32 PM	Ugh! I hate how quickly you get signed out in here. I just lost my post! I will attempt to do it more quickly... After reading through your class and the replies more thoroughly, I have two suggestions. First, give an alternative to the specific feats. My concern with giving a specific feat at a specific level is what if the character already has that feat? You should either just give them the opportunity to take another feat at this point, or instead of giving them a specific feat, give them a supernatural or extrodanary ability that does the exact same thing, but say that if they also have the feat by the same name they get a bonus (I did this in one of my classes with the Endurance feat, stating that if they had both the Endurance ability and Endurance feat their bonus became +6 instead of +4). The second thing that I really don't care for is how you handle Ex-Kensei. Changing class level gets really messy, especially if the character has multi-classed in Monk, Fighter, or worse, both. What do you do with a 6th Kensei/4th Monk/3 Fighter if he becomes an ex-Kensei? You also didn't mention what happens if a Kensei becomes non-lawful. Does he have to turn in his weapon, or risk being hunted down by other Kensei (evil grin)? You need to say what happens to such characters.
Sleepwalker13666 09-02-07, 10:50 PM	Ugh! I hate how quickly you get signed out in here. I just lost my post! I will attempt to do it more quickly... Hehe, yeah I dart in and out a lot, but I check back frequently, on my days off I'm on almost hourly. After reading through your class and the replies more thoroughly, I have two suggestions. Ears Open First, give an alternative to the specific feats. My concern with giving a specific feat at a specific level is what if the character already has that feat? You should either just give them the opportunity to take another feat at this point, or instead of giving them a specific feat, give them a supernatural or extrodanary ability that does the exact same thing, but say that if they also have the feat by the same name they get a bonus (I did this in one of my classes with the Endurance feat, stating that if they had both the Endurance ability and Endurance feat their bonus became +6 instead of +4). I forget what page it was on (and the book for that matter) but when you have a feat and a class or prc dumps it on you you can take another, but I'll go ahead and make note of that in those feats. The second thing that I really don't care for is how you handle Ex-Kensei. Changing class level gets really messy, especially if the character has multi-classed in Monk, Fighter, or worse, both. What do you do with a 6th Kensei/4th Monk/3 Fighter if he becomes an ex-Kensei? You also didn't mention what happens if a Kensei becomes non-lawful. Does he have to turn in his weapon, or risk being hunted down by other Kensei (evil grin)? You need to say what happens to such characters. I'll dress that up, thank you for your feedback.
narukagami 09-02-07, 11:24 PM	Ugh! I hate how quickly you get signed out in here. I just lost my post! I will attempt to do it more quickly... Try clicking the little "Remember me" checkbox.
Knitsuge 09-02-07, 11:38 PM	Try clicking the little "Remember me" checkbox. I WILL! Um, where is it?
narukagami 09-02-07, 11:39 PM	Right above the button that says "Log In" next to where you type in your username and password when you log in.
Knitsuge 09-02-07, 11:48 PM	Right above the button that says "Log In" next to where you type in your username and password when you log in. Thank you! I never paid attention to that before. Um, did I click something, or did the look of the forum just change? :confused:
Sleepwalker13666 09-03-07, 12:15 AM	Thank you! I never paid attention to that before. Um, did I click something, or did the look of the forum just change? :confused: Sometimes it does that, when I log in through the dnd page instead of the wizards page I get the hectacomb setup instead of the standard brown.