Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SakuyaUragashi 06-02-07, 03:45 AM	ok, i was wondering if anyone had any ideas on what the build would be like Kenshin Himura from Rurouni Kenshin. I am playing a samurai and was wondering what the best build was to make a speedy light armored samurai.
mod5000 06-02-07, 04:32 AM	Tome of Battle Swordsage + Iaijutsu Focus Use the Shadow Blade and Weapon Finesse feats for Kenshin's speed-over-might. Be in Assassin's Stance to add +2d6 every time you Iaijutsu Strike someone. A few Maneuvers that automatically Flat-Foot opponent: Ghost Blade (Ryushousen) Sapphire Nightmare Blade (Ryukansen) Death From Above (Ryutsuisen) Use things like Quicksilver Motion and Sudden Leap to show off just how quick Kenshin is. Another few techniques: Flashing Sun (Ryusousen) Time Stands Still + Raging Mongoose (Kuzuryusen) Emerald Razor (Zantetsu) Go with two-weapon fighting with a wakizashi (a Shadow Hand weapon) and your sheathe in the other hand (ask your DM to allow it to be a Shadow Hand weapon dealing, say, 1d4 damage). With Time Stands Still and Raging Mongoose, it can give you 22 attacks in a single round if you multiclass a little to something that has a full attack bonus (Iaijutsu Master, for example?) Now THAT'S what I call god-like speed.
The_Shaman 06-02-07, 11:38 AM	I might consider him a warblade (Diamond mind, mostly), strangely enough, or a multiclass swordsage rather than a full-time one. I just can't imagine him with a medium BAB; he seemed more than a "trick swordsman" but a well-rounded fighter able to handle himself even without special moves. Non-TOB version: fighter (maybe the UA thug variant)/rogue (imo no more than 4 levels)/ Iaijutsu master (OA), possibly with a few duelist levels.
skywyze 06-02-07, 11:19 PM	You MUST have the "Flick of the Wrist" feat from Complete Adventurer. It requires quick-draw. If you have your weapon sheathed and then draw it as part of your attack, your first attack treats your opponent as flat-footed. Edit: On further reflection, I've concluded that he must be a warblade 10 at least. In my opinion, you can't be a sword-master with medium base attack bonus. I'd also peg him as a spring attacker. So here's what I suggest for a 20-level build: Race: Gray Elf. Notice how his eyes turn amber? Also, the +int and +dex with -str and -con seem very much in tune with the kind of fighter Kenshin is. Additionally, it's required for Eternal Blade (see below). Levels: Warblade 10/Eternal Blade 10. Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Bounding Attack, Rapid Blitz, Flick of the Wrist, Power Attack, Elusive Target and one other. Maneuvers/stances needed: Raging Mongoose, Iron Heart Surge, Time Stands Still. Tactics: On a normal combat round, spring attack while using Raging Mongoose and Flick of the Wrist to land a quick flurry of blows on your enemy (5 attacks at 20/20/20/15/10) who is then also caught flat footed. If you get Charmed or Held or something, just will it off with Iron Heart Surge. For truly epic encounters and BBEGs, use Time Stands Still and Island of Time (10th level Eternal Blade class feature) at the same time to land an unparalleled barrage of attacks, adding in four more attacks if hasted and eight more attacks if you spent Raging Mongoose to boost. Assuming a strength at level 20 of 26 (purely average at best by that level) and the minimum feats, as well as a +2 speed bastard sword that's a total list of attacks, with modifiers as follows: 31/31/31/31/31/31/31/31/31/31/31/31/31/31/31/31/26/26/26/26/21/21/21/21/16/16/16/16 Now THAT is speed. Of course, it's horribly ill-optimized. Any level 20 character should have at LEAST a +10 weapon and he'd gain massive bonuses from a high int. Dual wielding would be better as well, as raging mongoose would grant another 8 attacks that way. But it's a start at least.
mod5000 06-02-07, 11:32 PM	With the different maneuvers even Flick of the Wrist isn't needed, especially when adding Adaptive Style to a Swordsage. Even if all you use is those three maneuvers, you can make 3 Iaijutsu Strikes before taking a full-round to renew them. Round 1: Quick-draw blade, Sapphire Nightmare Blade, sheathe blade. Round 1.5: Use a counter. Round 2: Quick-draw blade, Death From Above, sheathe blade. Round 2.5: Use a counter. Round 3: Quick-draw blade, Ghost Blade, sheathe blade. Round 3.5: Use a counter. Round 4: Full-round action to recover maneuvers. Round 4.5: Use a counter. Rinse and repeat. Instead of using counters you can use Quicksilver Motion or Sudden Leap to get close to a foe, or to switch to a different stance if needed.
Hochiu 06-02-07, 11:33 PM	Idle question. Why is ToB synonymously used as "OA" material now?
mod5000 06-02-07, 11:33 PM	Only if you wanna be cool :D
skywyze 06-02-07, 11:50 PM	Idle question. Why is ToB synonymously used as "OA" material now?Because prior to ToB, melee combat was a list of 6 options: Charge, full attack, grapple, overrun, trip or disarm. That was pretty much all you could do. ToB changed it so melee combatants can have fun and use options without having to make up rules on the spot to fit the description of what's going on. Giving an intricate description of what your fighter does feels woefully lackluster when the mechanics are identical to that of "I go up and hit him till he stops moving."
Hochiu 06-02-07, 11:57 PM	Because prior to ToB, melee combat was a list of 6 options: Charge, full attack, grapple, overrun, trip or disarm. That was pretty much all you could do. ToB changed it so melee combatants can have fun and use options without having to make up rules on the spot to fit the description of what's going on. Giving an intricate description of what your fighter does feels woefully lackluster when the mechanics are identical to that of "I go up and hit him till he stops moving." OA is more than flashy combat maneuvers, and it's irritating to see any and all builds being referred back to one book on this forum now. Anime Fantards that want to build their characters are more than welcome to ask on the ANIME forum, which is a proper place, or the Character Optimization boards which is THE place for help in constructing characters. Anime =/= Oriental Adventures, Damnit. ToB =/= Oriental Adventures, double Damnit. Edit: Also, one of the best parts of the game is to describe what you do in an attack action - it's one of the things that's not reliant on nifty class features or abilities. The very act of describing of how the actions are enacted is what makes D&D so distinct. Any reliance on flashy maneuvers to achieve a greater 'wow' factor isn't making the game better - it's making the game one step closer to miniatures, where you simply roll dice, declare special attacks, and move pieces and that's that.
mod5000 06-02-07, 11:58 PM	O.o there's an anime forum? ...Wow...
Hochiu 06-02-07, 11:58 PM	Aye, one that's basically statted EVERY possible build from Kenshin AND Samurai X, for the God's sakes.
The_Shaman 06-03-07, 05:11 AM	Whenever you can find something there, really... It's one of the most stale parts of these boards. It's on the d20 boards here.
heretic888 06-03-07, 07:31 AM	Also, one of the best parts of the game is to describe what you do in an attack action - it's one of the things that's not reliant on nifty class features or abilities. The very act of describing of how the actions are enacted is what makes D&D so distinct. Sure. But, the problem was that prior to Tome of Battle, there weren't any viable mechanics to back up your descriptions. You can narrate your actions with the most brilliantly poetic prose in the multiverse, wordplay what would make even the kindly Sir Galahad blush in his plate armor. But, you know what? It still didn't change the fact you were missing half the time, that you had the damage output of a non-optimized Warrior NPC, or that your character couldn't actually do half the things you were serenading about.... .... seriously, before Tome of Battle, try making a dexterous warrior who doesn't suck. Just try. Of course, I still see a bit of the Stormwind Fallacy here. You seem to be implying that ToB maneuvers somehow preclude dramatic descriptions, as if the mechanics are doing the roleplaying work for us. This is absurd. I can do dripping prose with either system. The only difference is now my character can actually do what my concept has in mind. Oddly enough, I've never seen anyone complain about the "fancy moves" that spellcasters regularly use. Why have I seen no push to genericize and abstract spellcasting into core concepts, with "descriptions" covering the multitude of spells that are currently in the game?? Or is it, as another poster so eloquently put it, that melee just can't have nice things??
Hochiu 06-03-07, 02:44 PM	Run crying to your precious and completely erroneous Stormwind Fallacy, if you so wish. Hide behind its skirts, what do I care? You're wrong, though. Not once did I say, nor did I ever imply, that ToB maneuvers precluded flashy descriptions. Your suggestion is both wholly incorrect, and insulting, and gives me another example of how the Stormwind Fallacy is thrown around on these forums as if its a gospel. You're wrong to imply assumptions on something so trivial. My problem is that all the builds I'm seeing on the OA forum now are revolving around ToB. Don't get me wrong. I have the book. I like the book. Sometimes, I just want to play something ELSE though, or build a character style in a certain way. It's like you're forcing the material down my throat and I'm saying it's not the only way to do what you want. I've never had a problem building my character designs around my concepts, other than the initial "how do I do this" question. I guess I don't see the mechanics being anything but mechanics, the dice rolls being just that. Its the same thing for me with spellcasting. The dice are just dice, I can create a flashy description how I want the spell to end up. The difference is that the spell names already lend some descriptive elment to their end result. *shrug* I don't think melee "can't have nice things", and the claim that it doesn't honestly sounds like a "pity me"/battered housewife argument. But whatever. I'm in the minority with thinking that ToB doesn't have a dominating place in OA builds as it seems to now, but to each his own.
The_Shaman 06-03-07, 05:50 PM	Someone pass me the popcorn ;) Aside from that, it's funny now that you mention it; I always thought OA/RKCS had a LOT more for fighters and their ilk (monks, especially) than the core material did. Saying ToB is necessary for any viable OA build speaks volumes for its use for any OTHER warrior builds imo.
Geraturatu 06-03-07, 06:58 PM	Quit arguing and try to find the best build already. He asked a question and wnats a nice polite answer. If you're not wanting to help and just sit here fighting among eachother, then don't post! Those that want tohelp him, find the build that best matches him please, not just some ultimately powered 28 attacks a round character. yesh!
heretic888 06-03-07, 09:07 PM	Haha, no worries. There shall be no further argumentation from my end. ;) I pretty much said what I was going to say about the ToB issue and there's no reason to go around in circles about it. However, something another poster said did pique my interest: In my opinion, you can't be a sword-master with medium base attack bonus. I disagree with this thinking. I believe you are collapsing class and character together, whereas they should be very distinct. Your aforementioned "sword-master's" attack bonus is a combination of a multitude of sources --- base attack bonus, any relevant ability score (probably Dex as I'd see Kenshin as a Weapon Finesse type), any relevant feats (such as Weapon Focus), and so on. A swordmaster could indeed have a medium BAB but still be comparable to other warrior types by virtue of his build. In any event, due to the use of armor I'm not so sure a Warblade fits Kenshin's character all that well. Swordsage certainly seems a better fit, if you look at the saving bonuses, Wisdom bonus to AC, initiative bonuses, evasion and improved evasion, and so on. Then again, perhaps some combination of multiclassing the two is the best answer...
mod5000 06-03-07, 09:21 PM	Here's a build that gives us both a decent attack bonus, Wisdom to AC, Iaijutsu flavor, and tons of maneuvers, some even at 9th level: Flaws: Shaky, Inattentive Human 1. Swordsage 1 (Adaptive Style) (Weapon Finesse) (Shadow Blade) (Versatile: Iaijutsu Focus, Tumble) 2. Swordsage 2 3. Swordsage 3 (Quick Draw) 4. Swordsage 4 5. Swordsage 5 6. Swordsage 6 (Weapon Focus: Katana) 7. Swordsage 7 8. Swordsage 8 9. Swordsage 9 (Improved Initiative) 10. Iaijutsu Master 1 11. Iaijutsu Master 2 12. Iaijutsu Master 3 (Gloom Razor) 13. Iaijutsu Master 4 (Dodge) 14. Iaijutsu Master 5 15. Swordsage 10 (Mobility) 16. Swordsage 11 17. Swordsage 12 18. Swordsage 13 (Spring Attack) 19. Swordsage 14 20. Swordsage 15 Gives you: 9th level maneuvers Dex+Str to damage Dex+Int+Wis to AC Dex to hit Dex+Cha+4 to Initiative Charisma to Iaijutsu Strikes Gloom Razor + Spring Attack for flatfooted opponents every time you use Spring Attack Epic-ready--Four attacks/round at +16 BAB 2d6 Sneak Attack (Assassin's Stance) One variant is to switch the Spring Attack tree with Two-Weapon Fighting if you want to go the Sword+Sheathe style.
Darth Sephiroth 06-04-07, 01:36 AM	Treat him as a Human (Crane:Kakita) for free Iajutsu Focus as a class skill
mod5000 06-04-07, 01:38 AM	I took Versatile which lets you designate two skills as class skills for the rest of your career, but what is the thing you mentioned? (Kakita?)
Darth Sephiroth 06-04-07, 01:41 AM	In the Rokugan book the Kakita is one of the families of the Crane Clan. The book splits the clans up even more than the OA book does and the Kakita clan has the option of having Iajutsu Focus as its class skill. There are two versions of the Kakita one is as I just said and the other is a Courtier version, both are in the Rokugan book
Kalis Atrud 06-04-07, 10:26 AM	Kenshin build Guess I have to be the downer. A few critiques: You don't need weapon focus with a katana. One of the first level abilities of a Swordsage is discipline focus which gives weapon focus with all weapons of that discipline. Take it for diamond mind and you have weapon focus for katana(bastard sword). Also he doesn't get str+dex to damage with a katana(the only weapon I have seen kenshin use aside from a brief twf display in the Betrayal OAV) only with Shadow Hand weapons(which a katana is not). Also, I know you want those feats, but Kenshin is the exact opposite of Inattentive. He heard a scuffle behind him in a restaurant and chose not to dodge a thrown bowl of food because if he did it would have hit Kaoru. He doesn't need versatile for tumble as all his classes listed have tumble as a class skill. If I had to take the feat, I would have chosen Concentration as the second skill as Iaijutsu Master does not have the skill and several diamond mind manuevers rely on it. The quick trait fits him a lot better than either of those flaws. Alternatively, so does the frail flaw(which his master comments on, and his body is in fact too weak to handle the strain put on it by his sword style) or pathetic(constitution) flaw. If it could be managed, I would try to get a level of Shiba Protector(maybe drop a level for the talented trait from the unearthed arcana and house rules topic to pick up feats you need) in their for wis to damage and attack.
Geraturatu 06-04-07, 10:35 AM	Chosing not to dodge and dodging well are two diffrent things that on person can do actually. He has (on a number of occasions) dodged attacks that would have killed him. Now, I haven't watched many kenshin shows (because of the many things that kept detting in the way), but the spread out ones I did see showed that he dodged, used his powerful attacks, and left again. Even look at his most powerful ability, it's based on speed (if I remember correctly). Also, as I remember, they were at one point mentioning something about how he moved so fast that it caused sonic booms or something to that effect.
Kalis Atrud 06-04-07, 10:49 AM	Chosing not to dodge and dodging well are two diffrent things that on person can do actually. He has (on a number of occasions) dodged attacks that would have killed him. Now, I haven't watched many kenshin shows (because of the many things that kept detting in the way), but the spread out ones I did see showed that he dodged, used his powerful attacks, and left again. Even look at his most powerful ability, it's based on speed (if I remember correctly). Also, as I remember, they were at one point mentioning something about how he moved so fast that it caused sonic booms or something to that effect. He infact moved so fast that when a group of police officers tried to take him in for violating the sword law, they all seemed to freeze in mid stride, while Kenshin knocked them all out. One of the reasons I would recommend some maneuvers from the High-Speed Body discipline on Dicefreaks(don't remember the topic link off hand, and dicefreaks isn't working for me now).
The_Shaman 06-04-07, 11:57 AM	No-ToB option: Fighter (Thug)4 / Rogue 4 / Iaijutsu master X (possibly with some duelist levels, i.e. 2-3): I leave an undisclosed number of IM levels because I do not know what level the adventure is. You can also exchange some Iaijutsu master levels with Dervish (although I'd prefer it used on a character with a more dance-like style, like Aoshi), Exotic Weapon Master, Weapon Master (OA/S&F), Kensai (CW) etc. While for his teacher I could consider the Shou Disciple PrC from Unapproachable East, Kenshin does not seem to have a flair for brawling (unlike one member of his posse who is way too chaotic to be a monk). A pity - extra feats and improved dodge can do him good. Another option is to use a monk level or two, mostly for the wisdom-AC bonus, but I would rather not decrease his BAB if I can avoid it. I would urge against making him lvl 20+ if you can avoid it. It's imo all too tempting to try to represent an anime character by an uber-epic build. The psionic Naruto builds showed this only too laughably - a 13-year old being detailed as a lvl 19+ character? Please. Low-ToB option: substitute rogue with swordsage for wisdom to AC, free weapon focus, and a little fun with stances. After finishing the Iaijutsu master progression, do not go into duelist. It's tricky to begin with - from what I gather of his character, he wasn't very good at book learning (or maybe it was just something implied in the anime series, and his use of books shown during his remembering his hitokiri years). Low-ish ToB option: replace fighter with 6+ levels of warblade; yes, I would like to see him having a decent BAB and weapon specialization. Sue me. Other options would include more warblade or swordsage levels and only a little Iaijutsu master, eing a multiclass fighter (or warblade)-psychic warrior (psionic weapon for those impossible strikes, anyone), with a dash of warmind, or several others. You may note a slight fixation on the Iaijutsu master theme, but with a nickname like Battousai, and with the class making the katana a finessable weapon (iirc, AFB), not to mention the use he makes of similar maneuvers, I consider it almost a given. The only thing that worries me is that I consider him neutral on the lawful-chaotic axis, and a few of the options I gave here were restricted to lawful characters.
Geraturatu 06-04-07, 12:06 PM	You think the DND versions of anime characters are bad? Try some of the stuff people have made for Warcraft 3, those are uberpowered. Anyways, how would you give him his god like speed? I know that there is stuff like dash, but the only way to get it to a close enough to correct value would be to use the epic feat over and over, but we've ruled that one out. Would monk be right? Because he isn't fist fighter. I know other there are ways, but would they match him truthfully?
The_Shaman 06-04-07, 12:20 PM	Well, I'd say huge initiative for those blink-of-an-eye moves, maybe a feat for +10 to MS (33% more than an average fit human can, I dare say it's enough) for prolonged quick movement, and possibly the endurance feat. Still... (Slaps head) Well, if that doesn't help, there's the blade dancer, right in OA. IIRC those kids had some real quick movement.
Geraturatu 06-04-07, 12:35 PM	Well, I'd say huge initiative for those blink-of-an-eye moves, maybe a feat for +10 to MS (33% more than an average fit human can, I dare say it's enough) for prolonged quick movement, and possibly the endurance feat. Still... (Slaps head) Well, if that doesn't help, there's the blade dancer, right in OA. IIRC those kids had some real quick movement. Yeah, the blade dancer does fit him. I completely forgot about that. Just use that one, it'll work.
narukagami 06-04-07, 01:02 PM	Guess I have to be the downer. A few critiques: You don't need weapon focus with a katana. One of the first level abilities of a Swordsage is discipline focus which gives weapon focus with all weapons of that discipline. Take it for diamond mind and you have weapon focus for katana(bastard sword). Also he doesn't get str+dex to damage with a katana(the only weapon I have seen kenshin use aside from a brief twf display in the Betrayal OAV) only with Shadow Hand weapons(which a katana is not). Also, I know you want those feats, but Kenshin is the exact opposite of Inattentive. He heard a scuffle behind him in a restaurant and chose not to dodge a thrown bowl of food because if he did it would have hit Kaoru. He doesn't need versatile for tumble as all his classes listed have tumble as a class skill. If I had to take the feat, I would have chosen Concentration as the second skill as Iaijutsu Master does not have the skill and several diamond mind manuevers rely on it. The quick trait fits him a lot better than either of those flaws. Alternatively, so does the frail flaw(which his master comments on, and his body is in fact too weak to handle the strain put on it by his sword style) or pathetic(constitution) flaw. If it could be managed, I would try to get a level of Shiba Protector(maybe drop a level for the talented trait from the unearthed arcana and house rules topic to pick up feats you need) in their for wis to damage and attack. Regarding some of the builds I was about to comment "Have any of you actually seen the show or read the manga at all?" But the above summed up my thoughts already. Also, if we're using UA houserules, why is no one using Class Bonus to AC and Armor as DR? In a setting where fighting unarmored is the norm and skillful dodging is a must, those rules are all but required.
mod5000 06-04-07, 03:44 PM	You don't need weapon focus with a katana. One of the first level abilities of a Swordsage is discipline focus which gives weapon focus with all weapons of that discipline. Take it for diamond mind and you have weapon focus for katana(bastard sword). The only reason I took Weapon Focus: Katana is to get into Iaijutsu Master--the character might not be EXACTLY like Kenshin, and would use a wakazashi as his main weapon. You'd take the Swordsage Weapon Focus for Shadow Hand weapons so you could use Shadow Blade. Also he doesn't get str+dex to damage with a katana(the only weapon I have seen kenshin use aside from a brief twf display in the Betrayal OAV) only with Shadow Hand weapons(which a katana is not). *shrug* With a wakazashi as his main weapon he is--apart from that difference, the build captures the spirit of Kenshin (master of Battojutsu and speed). And if you want to, you can use a Katana, with the only downside being that you don't add dex to damage. Also, I know you want those feats, but Kenshin is the exact opposite of Inattentive. He heard a scuffle behind him in a restaurant and chose not to dodge a thrown bowl of food because if he did it would have hit Kaoru. Then replace it with a different flaw--it doesn't really matter. If you really want to go with the story, take the Frail flaw, reflecting how he's prone to disease which kills him in the end. He doesn't need versatile for tumble as all his classes listed have tumble as a class skill. If I had to take the feat, I would have chosen Concentration as the second skill as Iaijutsu Master does not have the skill and several diamond mind manuevers rely on it. Again--you're focusing on the trivial things. You can change that and it doesn't affect the build in any way. The quick trait fits him a lot better than either of those flaws. Alternatively, so does the frail flaw(which his master comments on, and his body is in fact too weak to handle the strain put on it by his sword style) or pathetic(constitution) flaw. Then add it. Again--it doesn't affect the build. If it could be managed, I would try to get a level of Shiba Protector(maybe drop a level for the talented trait from the unearthed arcana and house rules topic to pick up feats you need) in their for wis to damage and attack. What's the Talented trait? (Looking at Character Traits right now, and can't find it...) And where's Shiba Protector from? EDIT: Found Shiba Protector--first level looks very nice, and might be add-able if we take out a few feats.
The_Shaman 06-04-07, 05:57 PM	"Also, I know you want those feats, but Kenshin is the exact opposite of Inattentive" One of the good things about rogue 4 is that it gives you Uncanny Dodge. His reactions - particularly in Reminiscence, when he almost cuts down Tomoe after she touches him in his sleep - seem worth it. Yes, he probably has more than a few ranks in spot and listen - or some semi-mystical (psionic?) powers. By the way, I'm not so sure about shadow hand maneuvers. Why are you so keen on them?
mod5000 06-04-07, 06:29 PM	It's not so much the Shadow Hand maneuvers that are nice--apart from Ghost Blade maneuver which automatically makes you opponent Flat-Footed for a free Iaijutsu Strike, no ifs, ands, or buts. The real kicker is the Shadow Blade feat that gives you dex-to-damage, and the Gloom Razor tactical feat which lets you catch an opponent flat-footed if you spring-attack them every round. Furthermore, if we're talking about reactions, Swordsage gives Quick to Act which seems to be exactly what Kenshin would have--even faster reactions (Initiative) and reflexes (Reflex Saves).
Kalis Atrud 06-04-07, 09:03 PM	What's the Talented trait? (Looking at Character Traits right now, and can't find it...) And where's Shiba Protector from? EDIT: Found Shiba Protector--first level looks very nice, and might be add-able if we take out a few feats. Found here (http://http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=2652391&postcount=5) Talented You are very talented and possess few uncanny abilities. Benefit: You gain 4 feats. None of those feats can have other feats as a prerequisite. Drawback: You gain Level Adjustment +1. Special: If you take this trait, you cannot take any flaws.
mod5000 06-04-07, 09:39 PM	Ummm... that "Trait" is rather overpowered, isn't it? (No DM I know would let you get away with 4 feats for +1 LA--maybe 3 feats, but certainly not 4, and especially not when using LA Buyback.)
Steely_Dan 06-05-07, 06:44 AM	Monk 1/Fighter x/Scout x (maybe a level of aristocrat for flavour). Try to get hold of a sparring dummy of the masters (for 10 ft. step) or juice up your Tumble checks for the DC 40 10 ft. step.
The_Shaman 06-05-07, 08:14 AM	Ummm... that "Trait" is rather overpowered, isn't it? (No DM I know would let you get away with 4 feats for +1 LA--maybe 3 feats, but certainly not 4, and especially not when using LA Buyback.) LOL, yes, having that and LA buyback is just too nice... Mind you, comparing it to a LA +1 race makes it seem okay. Goliaths, for example, are worth their +1 even against a few feats.
mod5000 06-05-07, 05:24 PM	Hehe, I dunno... I've built some bordering-on-broken builds that required just another feat or two (after flaws) to become true monsters. *shrug* I guess it just depends on what your build is. And if you mention a +1 race/template, at least mention one that gives you reach ;-) Half-Minotaur or Half-Ogre ftw!!
The_Shaman 06-05-07, 05:45 PM	Yeah, I wasn't very sure about how +1 those were... I thought that the feral was borderline enough, but the half-bigguns are probably a decent +2 . Anyway, Sakuya, what kind of game are you playing? I must admit I'm kind of a newb when it comes to ToB and especially its optimization.
Hochiu 06-06-07, 11:58 AM	Hehe, I dunno... I've built some bordering-on-broken builds that required just another feat or two (after flaws) to become true monsters. *shrug* I guess it just depends on what your build is. And if you mention a +1 race/template, at least mention one that gives you reach ;-) Half-Minotaur or Half-Ogre ftw!! Another example of why mechanics shouldn't bow down to inventive character ideas and builds. It seems to me that most of the new mechanics are trying to police themselves in the event of abuse; as if they think it's already a foregone conclusion. Edit: Just incase there was nothing clear of my statement, that means "The DM shouldn't allow that talent."
Darth Sephiroth 06-07-07, 12:31 AM	Hehe, I dunno... I've built some bordering-on-broken builds that required just another feat or two (after flaws) to become true monsters. *shrug* I guess it just depends on what your build is. And if you mention a +1 race/template, at least mention one that gives you reach ;-) Half-Minotaur or Half-Ogre ftw!! You want power go with a Half-Minotarur Goliath Barbarian...Huge while raging...
mod5000 06-07-07, 03:37 AM	Don't forget the Lion Totem variant from Complete Champion and Frenzied Berserker. To make it even worse add Leap attack.
SakuyaUragashi 06-07-07, 01:07 PM	well i thinkits a toss up with diamond mind and iron heart. which one is better...i dont know i think kenshin is a little of both but i think i will definetly go warblade. thank you for the input
Geraturatu 06-08-07, 12:20 AM	What about the Blade Dancer? That class is perfect for him.
SakuyaUragashi 06-08-07, 12:47 PM	i found a blade dancer online and it sucked, so if you could provide a link to a site that has it, it would be most appreciated
The_Shaman 06-08-07, 05:58 PM	OA isn't free license, buddy... Not yet, at least.
Azzy 06-08-07, 11:31 PM	i found a blade dancer online and it sucked, so if you could provide a link to a site that has it, it would be most appreciated This site (http://www.amazon.com/Oriental-Adventures-Dungeons-Dragons-Supplement/dp/0786920157/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-2383429-6580802?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1181359690&sr=8-1) has it, so does this one (http://www.thewarstore.com/product5096.html) and this one (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=23426).
turalisj 06-09-07, 04:09 PM	I was thinking he would be atleast a level 15 Warblade, with the weapon focus tree and the diamond mind path. You can't say that Diamond Nightmare blade doesn't seem like his fighting style... :D But I haven't seen the show in a few years, and I'm just now rewatching it.