| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Bullshido02-22-07, 06:33 AM | Here is a video clip that exposes one Ki charlatan. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-x4iJM2aU4 |
| Lord Gwydion02-22-07, 09:14 AM | Who cares whether it exists in real life or not? Within the imaginary world of my OA campaign, it does exist, and there is no doubt about it. Since these message boards are for discussing OA and fantasy in general, that's all that matters. So please, we all know by now that you don't believe in it. But whether you believe in it or not in real life has no effect on my game. And if anyone could convince me it does exist in real life, or prove that it doesn't exist, it still wouldn't effect my OA game. If you want to base a game around proving ki/qi doesn't exist, then we can talk. If you just want to prove a point, kindly take it elsewhere. Thank you. |
| heretic88802-22-07, 11:47 AM | I think its pretty evident by now that Bullshido is a troll, Lord Gwydion. One need only look at the time he joined (Feb 2007), the username he chose (Bullshido), and the fact that the only threads he has participated on revolve around "disproving" martial arts myths (without any relevance to potential RPG material) and the only two threads he has begun (both off-topic for the forum) revolving around "disproving" the same. My guess is he found this site via a search engine and has no interest whatsoever in the forum's appropriate topics. Laterz. |
| Sudnji_cas02-22-07, 12:17 PM | I reported this thread to Wizos and I'm sure they'll close it anytime soon. P.S.: Ignore the troll! |
| PolishNinja0102-22-07, 04:48 PM | I always thought that ki did exist among martial arts, just that you truly have to believe in it to use its power???? |
| Bullshido02-22-07, 05:22 PM | You guys should be able to handle a little debate without calling the mods right away. I am just setting the record straight on this issue. If you disagree with the conclusions I have drawn then talk with me. If you dont like the evidence I have presented, talk with me. Dont just accuse me of being a troll. I am not one. I have been posting on many other areas of the wizards site. I resent being called a troll, simply because I want to debate an issue which is clearly related to oriental campaigns. People try to bring realism into their games all the time. |
| 3DJutsu02-22-07, 05:56 PM | I think the better question is: Why are you 'setting the record straight' on a RL issue in a Fantasy Game forum? why not goto a Martial arts website and post there. Seems logical to me. Also Realism+Fantasy=??? |
| Bullshido02-22-07, 05:59 PM | I guess it is because so many people 'set the record straight' on matters of Asian Culture and history on this board, I thought I would set the record straight on matters pertaining to reality and the supernatural. |
| Count Arioch the 28th02-22-07, 06:04 PM | I have a question for Bullshido: Why is it you have a huge problem with ki being presented in the game, but you aren't posting on the magic and spells board trying to disprove that people can throw fireballs, or on the races board proving that there are no elves? I honestly don't think anyone here actually beleives that ki exists outside mythology, I don't know why you chose this crusade. It's like me starting threads showing proof that purple unicorns don't exist. In short, no one is arguing with you, yet you keep up your crusade despite that fact. Your behavior is puzzling to me. I will say this, I honestly don't think you're a troll. I just think you are fighting to disprove something no one beleives in anyway. |
| Witch02-22-07, 06:06 PM | While it's pretty obvious that Qi doesn't exist in the real world, it's also pretty obvious that this is irrelevant to D&D where magic thrives. |
| Bullshido02-22-07, 06:07 PM | I have a question for Bullshido: Why is it you have a huge problem with ki being presented in the game, but you aren't posting on the magic and spells board trying to disprove that people can throw fireballs, or on the races board proving that there are no elves? I honestly don't think anyone here actually beleives that ki exists outside mythology, I don't know why you chose this crusade. It's like me starting threads showing proof that purple unicorns don't exist. In short, no one is arguing with you, yet you keep up your crusade despite that fact. Your behavior is puzzling to me. I will say this, I honestly don't think you're a troll. I just think you are fighting to disprove something no one beleives in anyway. Because people on the other threads do not believe that magic exists. Many people on the oriental adventure board have stated that they believe in Ki (or as most of them call it 'Qi'). I suggest you look at a few other threads and you will you realize this is the case. |
| Azzy02-22-07, 06:24 PM | You guys should be able to handle a little debate without calling the mods right away. The problem is you don't debate--you actively misrepresent what other people say and ignore what they do say. BTW, did you not read WizO_Sith's message on the other thread? Y'know, the one that said: This thread will be locked. Do not restart it. |
| heretic88802-22-07, 06:32 PM | You guys should be able to handle a little debate without calling the mods right away. I am just setting the record straight on this issue. If you disagree with the conclusions I have drawn then talk with me. If you dont like the evidence I have presented, talk with me. Dont just accuse me of being a troll. I am not one. I have been posting on many other areas of the wizards site. I resent being called a troll, simply because I want to debate an issue which is clearly related to oriental campaigns. People try to bring realism into their games all the time. Whether "chi" or "qi" or "ki" exists in the real world has absolutely no bearing on Oriental Adventures games. This thread is in violation of the ToS and should be closed sometime soon. As for you being a troll, well, I am of the mindset that people should call a spade a spade. This is the second thread you have made on this forum trying to "disprove" some martial arts myth, without even the slightest interest in applying it to a roleplaying game. How does the old saying go: "A fanatic is somebody who won't change his mind and won't change the subject." Guilty as charged, troll. Laterz. |
| Bullshido02-22-07, 06:33 PM | The problem is you don't debate--you actively misrepresent what other people say and ignore what they do say. BTW, did you not read WizO_Sith's message on the other thread? Y'know, the one that said: I in no way misrepresented what others said. If anything I was misrepresented by one user who wanted to discredit me. But I read every post and responded to the more reasonable positions. If I ignored someone's argument it was because it did not make sense. |
| Bullshido02-22-07, 06:33 PM | Whether "chi" or "qi" or "ki" exists in the real world has absolutely no bearing on Oriental Adventures games. This thread is in violation of the ToS and should be closed sometime soon. As for you being a troll, well, I am of the mindset that people should call a spade a spade. This is the second thread you have made on this forum trying to "disprove" some martial arts myth, without even the slightest interest in applying it to a roleplaying game. Guilty as charged, troll. This is the first thread I have started in Oriental Adventures. |
| heretic88802-22-07, 06:36 PM | This is the first thread I have started in Oriental Adventures. Okay, now you're just lying: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=792937 |
| Bullshido02-22-07, 06:48 PM | Okay, now you're just lying: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=792937 Fair enough. I forgot about that one. Still. I do not understand why people here are so hostile to bold statements about martial arts on a section of the board dedicated to oriental adventures. People on other websites are laughing at how sensitive you all are right now. |
| TanglePython02-22-07, 06:48 PM | yo bullshido... y u say ki aint exist? |
| Bullshido02-22-07, 06:49 PM | yo bullshido... y u say ki aint exist? There is no evidence for it. There is lots of evidence that people like Dilman pretend to use Ki in order to market themselves. See the link to the video on my OP. |
| PolishNinja0102-22-07, 06:53 PM | Bullshido, Not to provoke any type of argument, I just wanted to ask you a question. Of all the old martial artists that have spent their entire lives training, what gives you the impression of them being all fake, or in better words, uncomparale (my apologies for mispelling the word) to the mma fighters or UFC and etc. etc. Besides, this goes beyon the point; this is D&D, not a discussion or war between martial arts. |
| Azzy02-22-07, 06:59 PM | I in no way misrepresented what others said. If anything I was misrepresented by one user who wanted to discredit me. But I read every post and responded to the more reasonable positions. If I ignored someone's argument it was because it did not make sense. I suggest to anyone who may be inclined to believe Bullshido's above statement to go read this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=788783) to see the truth of the matter for themselves. I think it's pretty obvious that he repeatedly misrepresents what others say. |
| Bullshido02-22-07, 07:00 PM | Bullshido, Not to provoke any type of argument, I just wanted to ask you a question. Of all the old martial artists that have spent their entire lives training, what gives you the impression of them being all fake, or in better words, uncomparale (my apologies for mispelling the word) to the mma fighters or UFC and etc. etc. Besides, this goes beyon the point; this is D&D, not a discussion or war between martial arts. Not all old martial artists are fake or worse than MMA fighers. The problem is so many of them use very poor training methods that do not prepare people for real fights. For instance many schools Devote too much time to target drills, forms, and choreographed (excuse the spelling) sparring. Some schools are a little better and spar, but only allow light contact with little resistance. Another reason is the lack of what is often labeled aliveness at traditional schools. Aliveness just means sparring or practicing a technique with a partner who is actively resisting and trying to attack you when the opportunity presents itself. Too many schools have people practice their techniques on partners who simply 'let them succeed'. Again, not all schools are like this. But many are. i have trained at some of them. If you want to train to defend yourself, you need to know what happens when your technique doesn't work. Many people who come from such schools and enter gyms that practice 'aliveness' are very suprised when their partners dont immediately fall over or drop from a single blow. Very few people are dropped by a single strike to the head, yet many schools lead their students to believe (by not practicing aliveness) that by a landing a single blow to a certain area they can always disable an opponent. In real life, that rarely happens. |
| Bullshido02-22-07, 07:02 PM | I suggest to anyone who may be inclined to believe Bullshido's above statement to go read this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=788783) to see the truth of the matter for themselves. I think it's pretty obvious that he repeatedly misrepresents what others say. Why dont you point out specifically where I misrepresented what someone said, because honestly, if I did, I was not intending to. I just reviewed the thread I dont see any instance where I misrepresent anyone. I may have missed someone's point but that happens on long threads. |
| Bullshido02-22-07, 07:08 PM | I suggest to anyone who may be inclined to believe Bullshido's above statement to go read this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=788783) to see the truth of the matter for themselves. I think it's pretty obvious that he repeatedly misrepresents what others say. If this is about our Qi/Chi exchange, I think it is pretty obvious how I might have misunderstood your point. But to return to it. Using an outdated transliteration system is not the same as mispelling. Many of the books I read growing up still refered to it as Chi. Its not a major problem either way. I dont know how it is with asian languages (since I never studied them), but I have studies Semitic Languages and there are many transliteration methods, yet no one is considered wrong for choosing one over the other. They all have advantages and disadvantages. In fact, my history professor in college (who was chinese and teaching a history of China course) even spelled it 'Chi'. |
| heretic88802-22-07, 07:22 PM | Still. I do not understand why people here are so hostile to bold statements about martial arts on a section of the board dedicated to oriental adventures. A few reasons: 1) It is off-topic and therefore in violation of the CoC. 2) Your posts more often than not consist of indirect personal attacks against those that disagree with you (i.e., "you just want to believe that", "you guys think you're better than everybody else", "you guys are just lying to yourselves", etc) and also in violation of the CoC. 3) You're a troll. People on other websites are laughing at how sensitive you all are right now. Apparently being "sensitive" is how you say "following the rules" on other websites. |
| Bullshido02-22-07, 07:26 PM | A few reasons: 1) It is off-topic and therefore in violation of the CoC. 2) Your posts more often than not consist of indirect personal attacks against those that disagree with you (i.e., "you just want to believe that", "you guys think you're better than everybody else", "you guys are just lying to yourselves", etc) and also in violation of the CoC. 3) You're a troll. Apparently being "sensitive" is how you say "following the rules" on other websites. 1) Disagreeing over things in the real world that are part of the game is not against the rules. 2) those hardly qualify as personal attacks. I would hate to see how you react to an actual troll. 3) I am not a troll. Just because you disagree with me, that does not make me a troll. No. Really they are laughing at you on the other sites right now. Honestly no one got really mad until I was winning the debate on bullshido in martial arts. |
| heretic88802-22-07, 07:40 PM | 1) Disagreeing over things in the real world that are part of the game is not against the rules. Discussion of off-topic subjects is against the rules. How does any of this have to do OA?? 2) those hardly qualify as personal attacks. We'll leave that for the moderators to decide. 3) I am not a troll. Just because you disagree with me, that does not make me a troll. No, the fact that you have now made three off-topic threads about pretty much the same subject is what makes you a troll. No. Really they are laughing at you on the other sites right now. I suppose you mean: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=51644 Oh well, at least I have the honor of "SORT OF getting it" from the Bullshido crowd. Zippidy doo dah. Honestly no one got really mad until I was winning the debate on bullshido in martial arts. My personal experience has been that those that declare they have "won" (as if such a thing were possible) online debates rarely do. Laterz. |
| PolishNinja0102-22-07, 08:51 PM | K guys, a wise man once told me; Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics. Even if you win, your still retarded... Now I dont mean that in ANY way offensive, really, I am sympathetic for these kinds of things, so take it as an advice. Arguing is stupid, and besides, I doubt that nobody in this debate will change the way they think about what is/could be important to them. Let them go on believing what they want. Besides, lets talk about D&D, not this. This is the WotC, D&D Forum, not MA Forum. |
| spyone02-22-07, 08:52 PM | I think its pretty evident by now that Bullshido is a troll, Lord Gwydion. One need only look at the time he joined (Feb 2007), the username he chose (Bullshido), and the fact that the only threads he has participated on revolve around "disproving" martial arts myths (without any relevance to potential RPG material) and the only two threads he has begun (both off-topic for the forum) revolving around "disproving" the same. My guess is he found this site via a search engine and has no interest whatsoever in the forum's appropriate topics. Laterz. I am curious, Bullshido. Can you share any good gaming experiences from your time playing D&D? Have you got any memorable lines from around the gaming table? A favorite character you'd like to share? I ask because I do get around these boards a fair bit. I visit here, and the forums for D&D and the Ebarron setting and the genaric d20 settings and Star Wars, and I have not seen you post anywhere other than here (Oriental Adventures), and your posts are, as described above, limited to threads about martial arts. In fact, I have only found 4 threads you posted in, and 3 of them were created by you. So if I were called upon to say what I actually know about you, I don't know that you play this game at all. Or even know how. Or have ever read a rulebook. Do you truly wish to join this community, or is it as others have accused, that you came here only to pick fights? |
| Bullshido02-22-07, 08:56 PM | I am curious, Bullshido. Can you share any good gaming experiences from your time playing D&D? Have you got any memorable lines from around the gaming table? A favorite character you'd like to share? I ask because I do get around these boards a fair bit. I visit here, and the forums for D&D and the Ebarron setting and the genaric d20 settings and Star Wars, and I have not seen you post anywhere other than here (Oriental Adventures), and your posts are, as described above, limited to threads about martial arts. In fact, I have only found 4 threads you posted in, and 3 of them were created by you. So if I were called upon to say what I actually know about you, I don't know that you play this game at all. Or even know how. Or have ever read a rulebook. Do you truly wish to join this community, or is it as others have accused, that you came here only to pick fights? I have posted in whats a DM to do, and General D&D. I think my posts there show that I have played the game for years and enjoy talking about it. You can doubt me if you want to. I am interested in D&D and the Martial Arts. This seemed like a good place to bring them together. However, since so many have objected to my posts I have opened them up in the Rec Room. Just dont respond if you think I am troll or something. But I continue to maintain that I am not a troll. |
| ZerianTheKeeper02-22-07, 09:15 PM | I am interested in D&D and the Martial Arts. Then why bring this up, it does not pertain to D&D or martial arts in D&D. Really all you’re doing is stirring up debate. Which is not something you just win; it’s like an atheist winning a debate against a Christian whether or not god exists (which I only bring up as an example; please don't go down this path). You can not win this debate, It is a very RARE thing when you can change a persons belief (and even harder over the internet). It comes down to to each there own, nobody wins. |
| Bullshido02-22-07, 09:21 PM | Then why bring this up, it does not pertain to D&D or martial arts in D&D. Really all you’re doing is stirring up debate. Which is not something you just win; it’s like an atheist winning a debate against a Christian whether or not god exists (which I only bring up as an example; please don't go down this path). You can not win this debate, It is a very RARE thing when you can change a persons belief (and even harder over the internet). It comes down to to each there own, nobody wins. I dont see it that way. i was responding to statements people were making on another thread about different kinds of martial arts. I dont see why we should be affraid to talk about it. ALot of gamers seem to think it exists, yet there is no scientific evidence to support this belief. Just thought it was worth exploring. I didn't know people were going to whine so much about it. If you dont like it dont respond. |
| ZerianTheKeeper02-22-07, 09:24 PM | ALot of gamers seem to think it exists, yet there is no scientific evidence to support this belief. Just thought it was worth exploring. As goes with most beliefs. It could be worth exploring but are you going to include this into your campaign? |
| madmonk02-23-07, 06:22 PM | Does alignment exist In the real world? that question is exactly the type of questions you are doing. This is not a martial arts forum, not a mumbo-jumbo forum. This is a D&D forum... You ask about ki? Sohei have it, the ugly ninja from CAdv have it, tons of PrC have it, 1/2 of the flavour from Tome of Battle has it... that is a fact. I you want to have a conversations about ki in real life and opinions about that, go to bullshido, bullshido :rolleyes: |
| 3DJutsu02-23-07, 06:53 PM | Because people on the other threads do not believe that magic exists. Many people on the oriental adventure board have stated that they believe in Ki (or as most of them call it 'Qi'). I suggest you look at a few other threads and you will you realize this is the case. Some people belive in god, others don't. In conclusion: let others belive what they will. |
| Dark Wizard02-23-07, 11:08 PM | You're arguing a point that most rational people here don't disagree with. When others come out to correct misconceptions here, it is usually because someone else brought it up as a topic and got their information wrong. No one has said anything about the topics you started. You're doing all this yourself, bringing them up unnecessarily. I think that's why people here aren't nicer to you. Say the sky is actually blue today. Normally you only say the sky is blue when someone asks or says something stupid to the contrary. With these threads of yours, it's like you're saying the sky is blue for no reason and thus it seems like you're trying to make some sort of mind blowing revelation to awe us with your vastly superior knowledge. Even if your knowledge of real martial arts is above and beyond that of anyone else here, this is not the way to endear people to you. On a site like bullshido, which was partly setup to debunk these myths, your threads make more sense as standalone topics. I also read through the topic on bullshido linked here recently. Only about two people really made constructive comments on the behavior of this OA forum. Half just chimed in with the typical remark along the lines of "nerds," while interestingly the other half made comments that showed a decent understand of D&D concepts and rules. So most understand that D&D is a fantasy game that is supposed to encourage use of these martial arts myths. They don't expect discussions on these forums to adhere to reality by its very purpose. |
| Sudnji_cas02-24-07, 01:36 PM | There's a chance that ki exist even in this world. Excluding it from D&D is not just magic-low it's magic-lower that the real world, but your game is what you make of it, and it's not anyone concern. But flooding our forums is. So what if other forums our laughing at us? We don't have any connections. Why the hell do we care?! So go to your stupid forum and laugh at us, we are not there! P.S.: Someone should "banish" this troll. |
| spyone02-24-07, 07:17 PM | No one has said anything about the topics you started. To be fair, he didn't bring up the question of Dim Mak existing, and he didn't really bring up the question of Ki (or Chi or whatever spelling is in vogue this decade) existing (it naturally evolved out of the Dim Mak discussion), he just broke them off from the topic they came up in (where it was Off Topic). Sir Elton mentioned Dim Mak in passing, and Bullshido quoted him to say that it didn't exist, to which Sir Elton responded:Ah, but the Chakras do exist; or else the healing touch discipline would not work at all. :) (snip) But as I understand it, Dim Mak did exist. It's not sorcery, since all you are doing is applying the opposite of the healing touch. Instead of adding Energy to the affected chakra, you are taking it away or disrupting its flow; impairing the body's ability to cleanse and heal itself. So, because we live in a world of opposites; if a touch healer can heal the body by applying Energy to a part of the body that needs it, a Dim Mak specialist can hurt the body by disrupting the Energy flow. The principles for both exist, so naturally, they can exist. And, we're off to the races, discussing whether the chakras, healing touch, and Dim Mak exist in the real world. |
| spyone02-24-07, 07:27 PM | P.S.: Someone should "banish" this troll. Since "trolling" and "Baiting" are both violations of the Code of Conduct, I suggest you either: A) Report him, if you genuinely believe he is "trolling", or B) quit calling him a Troll, lest that be interpreted as "baiting" him. While he at first came off as someone looking to pick a fight, a quick review of the thread on martial arts shows that his inspiration for creating the threads everyone keeps saying were "trolling" was that Sir Elton kept insisting that these thing do exist in the real world. Seems like if anyone was deliberately picking a fight it was Sir Elton. |
| heretic88802-24-07, 10:42 PM | Since this thread hasn't been locked yet, I thought I'd add something here.... A lot of people have been using the terms "chi" and "ki" synonymously, as some kind of supraphysical life-force energy that martial arts can manipulate to affect the external world. This is not how "ki" is understood in classical Japanese budo. Ki in most premodern budo could be loosely translated as "spirt", as in the phrase "she sure has a lot of spirit". It refers to a sense of feeling, vibrancy, and liveliness. No invocation of energy fields or force-pushes are required. Your movements have "ki" if they have feeling, intensity, and focus behind them --- it has nothing to do with moving things around with The Force. The only Japanese arts with which I know they use "ki" in a different sense are aikido and reiki. It is used completely differently in virtually all other budo. Laterz. |
| Bullshido02-24-07, 10:47 PM | Since this thread hasn't been locked yet, I thought I'd add something here.... A lot of people have been using the terms "chi" and "ki" synonymously, as some kind of supraphysical life-force energy that martial arts can manipulate to affect the external world. This is not how "ki" is understood in classical Japanese budo. Ki in most premodern budo could be loosely translated as "spirt", as in the phrase "she sure has a lot of spirit". It refers to a sense of feeling, vibrancy, and liveliness. No invocation of energy fields or force-pushes are required. Your movements have "ki" if they have feeling, intensity, and focus behind them --- it has nothing to do with moving things around with The Force. The only Japanese arts with which I know they use "ki" in a different sense are aikido and reiki. It is used completely differently in virtually all other budo. Laterz. japanese arts are not the only martial arts. When I was talking about Ki I was primarily talking about westerners who claim to use Ki in martial arts. My experience with asian arts has been that Chinese styles are much more interested in the mystical concept of Ki/Qi. Some koreans I trained with believed in this notion of Ki as well. |
| Sudnji_cas02-24-07, 11:00 PM | The only Japanese arts with which I know they use "ki" in a different sense are aikido and reiki. It is used completely differently in virtually all other budo. That explains it, I'm training ki-aikido (Aikido with special focus on the ki part). |
| Dark Wizard02-25-07, 12:47 AM | To be fair, he didn't bring up the question of Dim Mak existing, and he didn't really bring up the question of Ki (or Chi or whatever spelling is in vogue this decade) existing (it naturally evolved out of the Dim Mak discussion), he just broke them off from the topic they came up in (where it was Off Topic). Sir Elton mentioned Dim Mak in passing, and Bullshido quoted him to say that it didn't exist, to which Sir Elton responded: Then it would have helped clear things up immensely if he mentioned his threads were splinter topics from another thread with a quick summary of what others have said and his opposing views on the matter. I guess his bluntness just came off as condescending to a casual and sporadic reader of these threads like myself. I'm not sure what others who have been following his participation in the martial arts thread are reacting to. That thread fell quite far down the queue the day I started seeing Bullshido's new threads. |
| spyone02-25-07, 10:08 AM | Then it would have helped clear things up immensely if he mentioned his threads were splinter topics from another thread with a quick summary of what others have said and his opposing views on the matter. Agreed. That thread fell quite far down the queue the day I started seeing Bullshido's new threads. Largely because it got locked. |
| Rogue Elendae02-28-07, 07:28 PM | Seeing as this thread's still open (I could've sworn it was otherwise when I checked it last night, or I would've thrown this in sooner), I figured I'd pop this in just to see what happens. Mind you, I'm no martial artist or Asian historian, but I'm very fond of Japanese history, myth, etc. and was brought up to know and be proud of my Japanese heritage, so I do tend to have interest in these sorts of concepts. Further, my BF is a former student of two very different martial arts styles, and often likes to bring up the philosophies and practicalities thereof when we're discussing things about combat in various forms. In literal terms--which I'm taking directly out of a Japanese-to-English dictionary--do any of you realize that "ki" literally means either "tree" or "spirit/soul" in Japanese, but that the latter is also meant to signify "intention" or "intent"? In other words, "ki" as it applies to martial arts can be simply considered to mean "the intent to do something," therefore in the literal sense of the word meaning, it can exist. However, in the spiritual sense it is rather like the dual intent for a "Kiai! (the outcry that is often employed during a strike in martial arts)" While some argue that it is a focus of spirit/ki energy, it is in actuality just another way to focus the mind and further the commitment your body is making to its actions. For some people, this actually allows them to put more force behind their attacks, or otherwise prevents them from reflexively pulling the blow in some fashion. These are two different ways to broach a concept to people; some want the more spiritual end of things, because they connect the martial arts with something beyond just the body. Some styles, such as the various animal-based kung-fu (or wushu, if you're so inclined) forms, preach this view because it's part of their history, having been developed by monks. It's all in how you want to hear it. I don't doubt that "ki" exists in the concept of the intent of the art, be it in martial arts, fencing, or anything else. I could apply it to weight-lifting, or barrel racing (horseback event, for those who don't know), because that's all it really is beneath the veil of mysticism people have continued to give it over the years. And as for "chi?" It's either "earth" or "blood," depending on how you want to use it. (I cite the line in Spirited Away, "Chi, wakaru? Chi!" or "It's blood, understand? Blood!" to make my point, or the fact that the planet Earth is Chikyuu.) Again, the term developed out of the supposed connection to life that both of these represent, never mind the fact that the word "chikara" means "force, power, strength, ability, or skill," which could have yet another tie into where the philosophy developed from. So, once again, it's all in the perceptions. Yes, people have layered philosophical ideals of some mystic energy on top of this concept, but it all boils down to a sort of mental focus. I bet if we examine the concept of "qi" in Chinese culture, it's very similar. The literal meaning plays to the function of the philosophy placed on it. Therefore, the debate over whether it exists is actually rather silly, because the mystical part is likely all a matter of the focus that grows from the literal concept the term represents, and if believing it is mystical helps certain people to believe/focus that much more deeply, then that's their way of thinking. Like someone mentioned, it's the Atheist convincing the Christian there's no God. That's just not the way their mind wraps around things, any more than the Christian can make the Atheist believe there's a God. In other words, why don't we all just agree to disagree, and go on to talk about something more fun? |
| madmonk02-28-07, 08:02 PM | Ch'i is Chinese, not everything asian is Japanese, you know? Not to offend, but that is why we have a China sized Japan called Rokugan :s |
| Bullshido02-28-07, 08:49 PM | agree to disagree. |
| Sudnji_cas03-01-07, 03:30 AM | Agree to disagree |
| LuckyDragon03-01-07, 06:08 PM | All I know is that I have been hurt by Ki strikes from people. |
| Sudnji_cas03-02-07, 07:09 AM | All I know is that I have been hurt by Ki strikes from people. Are you trying to **** off bullshido or what? Just agree to disagree. |
| Kid SixXx03-02-07, 07:35 AM | Are you trying to **** off bullshido or what? Just agree to disagree. Or embrace the wonderful "Ignore" features of the board. |
| Ogrelee03-02-07, 03:05 PM | Hey, BS. (Apropriate name.) Item #1: Dillman also freely teaches methods to resist Goju knockouts. A complete system would have to. Item #2: The use of chi (or Qi ) in a fighting circumstance is very difficult. Just learning to feel and manipulate it is difficult. Still, it is the ultimate goal of all chinese and most japanese artists to do this. It requires belief in one's ability to do the "impossible", as well as a tremendous amount of practice and dedication. Most of the martial artists I know that don't believe in it are lousy artists anyway. Which group do you think you fall into? #3 If you don't understand Chi, your practice will be fruitless, useful only while you're young. Take up dancing, or in your case, knitting. P.s- don't bother with a comeback, I don't frequent these boards :) |
| ZenZ03-02-07, 03:12 PM | PolishNinja that was very funny! I'm gonna use that one bro! Excellent! |
| Bullshido03-02-07, 03:15 PM | Hey, BS. (Apropriate name.) Item #1: Dillman also freely teaches methods to resist Goju knockouts. A complete system would have to. Item #2: The use of chi (or Qi ) in a fighting circumstance is very difficult. Just learning to feel and manipulate it is difficult. Still, it is the ultimate goal of all chinese and most japanese artists to do this. It requires belief in one's ability to do the "impossible", as well as a tremendous amount of practice and dedication. Most of the martial artists I know that don't believe in it are lousy artists anyway. Which group do you think you fall into? #3 If you don't understand Chi, your practice will be fruitless, useful only while you're young. Take up dancing, or in your case, knitting. P.s- don't bother with a comeback, I don't frequent these boards :) I suspect that you are a troll. If you are a martial artist, I suspect you dont do full contact. I know plenty of martial artists who dont believe in Ki (like most ufc fighters) who are plenty good. As for Dilman, perhaps you did not see him get exposed for the fraud he is on the Discovery channel. |
| LuckyDragon03-02-07, 04:32 PM | Chi exists. Dilman explained that the guy knew how to nulify the effects of it. He obviously studied up on the subject before the show. |
| narukagami03-02-07, 04:44 PM | Chi exists. Dilman explained that the guy knew how to nulify the effects of it. He obviously studied up on the subject before the show. I'll take "Lame Excuses" for 500 Alex. |
| Sudnji_cas03-02-07, 06:38 PM | Chi exists. Dilman explained that the guy knew how to nulify the effects of it. He obviously studied up on the subject before the show. I believe in ki, but this is THE LAMEST EXCUSE EVER! |
| Ogrelee03-02-07, 10:43 PM | Actually, I'm an ogre, not a troll. *Ogrelee*. Hello. You are also wrong about my experience in full contact. I have been both a tournament fighter and a straight boxer. I studied kung fu and karate starting in the early seventies, in New York. For the record, every serious MA that is not just a fighter is interested in chi. A fighter has only a limited time in which they are of any use. A martial artist is a fighter who realizes this fact, and seeks the knowledge on the other side of youth. The UFC fighters of today fall into one of two categories, A: fighters. Todays flavor, these guys are gone tomorrow. Not that a fighter isn't excellent in his arena, but they are only of use while they're young enough to compete. OR b: the future masters. Someday, these guys are going to be shown on youtube doing something spectacular, and some moron is going to say "that's fake." They are the ones that matter, because both the fighters and the MA of tomorrow will learn from them. If all you know is the fight and none of the art, you have nothing to teach. Most UFC fighters practice Taichi to develop sensitivity ( push hands is excellent for this type of training), and some boxers do the same. When you get old, it's the strength of your spirit, and intent, your chi, that will make you dangerous. (Chi is directed not by mental power, but by intent. You don't push it, you lead it.) I have indeed retired from the arena, but I believe my continued studies make me more dangerous now than I was then. I like to compare techniques (Gong), with myself as the guinea pig. I have mastered three seperate styles of Iron palm, three seperate styles of Iron body, several versions of taichi,and have "exposure" to virtually dozens of different styles of kungfu and Karate. I have also studied Shuai chiao and jiujitsu, both Japanese traditional and brazilian. I'm almost forty. I will be doing Taichi and Bagua (which is my fave, and also the one I suck most at;) in my back yard when I'm eighty. I love the art for the art, not for the power it gives me. I suspect that actually makes me more competent. I am a Martial Artist. What are you? Will you be around in the practice halls when your youth is gone? Will you be throwing weak little old man punches, or crushing stone with your fists? Will you fall when you are struck, and break your fragile bones, or will striking you break their bones? Because, my friend, when you have been studying the underlying principles for 35 years, you learn which ones are important. What irks me about posts like this and the "UFC guys could hand that guy his hat" crap, is will those guys be able to do what some of the old guys are doing now, when they get that old? I hope so. Most won't. You don't know what you're talking about. Plain and simple. For one thing, you're in the wrong place. Go over to the Kung Fu/Qigong forums and type this stuff in. Someone will take you up on it, and you'll get flamed right out the door. In closing, answer me this- At what level does the Monk become a Master of Flowers? And what power does he recieve at that level? What was required for a Druid to reach 20th level in 2e? Are Chi powers in D&D considered exceptional or supernatural? At what level does the monks speed become supernaturally fast? Do you actually know anything about the game, or did you just come here looking for an argument you can't win?;) |
| Ogrelee03-02-07, 11:00 PM | And for the record, Dillman is a former full contact fighter, undefeated, who also taught Bruce Lee, Norris, and Joltin Joe his techniques. He is highly respected in both the fight arena and the martial arts community.They are supposed to be closed door techniques, only taught at the highest levels of Karate. He is breaking new ground with untested techniques that were taught quietly until he broke the silent tradition. Seriously, how hard do you think these techniques are if they are real? He also teaches counter techniques to the Goju ryu techniques he presents here. The counter techniques are easier to learn than the knockout techniques. While I wouldn't want to fight him myself, I prefer the ability to move 160 pound wieghted blocks with my blows than flicking an opponent with my fingers. And both require Chi, one is easier to master than the other. Guess which. If you'd REALLY like to know, his school is in Reading, PA. Go to the school and mouth off at him. (Hint: He doesn't like that.) |
| runestar03-03-07, 01:43 AM | Actually, that does not prove that chi or ki or whatever does not exist in general, just that those people in question did not possess them. For all we know, there could actually be someone in some isolated corner of the world with access to special Ki related abilities. We just aren't aware of it. Until you have tracked down every single person and proven that none of them possess ki abilities, you can't prove jack. Anyways, no one here really cares whether it does exist or not in real life. :rolleyes: |
| ORC_Paradox03-03-07, 03:37 AM | Not D&D related- Starting up arguments is considered trolling, and not allowed on these boards. Neither is "real life" discussions. /end flamewar |