Post/Author/DateTime	Post
the shaderaven 04-05-07, 11:53 AM	Hello to everyone in this WotC-forgotten board:) Since, our current GM is moving to another city it is again my turn to lead my gaming group next campaign. Since there is already one Oriental campaign in our gaming history that turned out to be quite enjoyable (I still remember its hillarious silly literalist ogre monk or the cinematographic suicide of a kami blooded shugenja that absorbed the taint from the party in order to save them) - my player again insisted for a oriental campaign. Even if we assime that I manage to overcome the problems with the lack of both quality and quantity in the DnD Oriental Material (for which I think that you can't really help me) I'm still faced with the problem of choosing setting and good opening adventure. Kara-Tur is not really an option since I neither know anything about this setting, nor I have any books for it, so I'm left with the choice between Rokugan and... Kamigawa. The problem with Rokugan is that I can't really think of something else besides the shadowlands that can make a group of characters from different clans work together from the beggining till the end of the campaign... and too much shadowlands gets borring. The problem with Kamigawa is that there isn't really any matherial about it. Its a nice world and the Magic the Gathering cards + the 3 Kamigawa novels do give it enough flavour so that with little home-brewing and house-rulling it can turn into nice place to play in... but still my last touch with Kamigawa was shortly after its first expansion when I gave up on MtG... so my memories are far from perfect. I also need a good starting adventure that will help forging a bond between the character so they don't end up putting a full quiver of arrows in the party ninja's back, trampling the party shugenja or gutting the samurai with a poison overdose as it almost happened during our previous OA sessions. Any suggestion even the most vague and incomplete are welcome. I know my question is hardly well defined, but basicly any tips and bits of ideas and suggestions are welcome.
narukagami 04-05-07, 12:00 PM	Make your own setting. Its more rewarding and it prevents having to deal with players who know more about the setting than you do. The easiest way to do it, is to make one province where the first campaign will take place, maybe have just a rough idea of its neighbors. Come up with just the basics of the world, social structure, cosmology, ect, and then fill in details and blanks only as necessary when your group gets to it. Not only does it save allot of work, but its fun when your players have a hand in shaping the world.
Darth Sephiroth 04-05-07, 03:15 PM	You could use my Canta setting and run with it, I'm trying to expand it somewhat with locations, people, and history at the moment
Dreamstryder 04-07-07, 02:20 AM	The party is guarding a travelling royal/political/religious personage; they must work together as guardians. The reason for travel could be: 1) getting a dire communique through, 2) delivering payment/item to the authority or place of need, 3) making sure the person with the skills makes it to village to break the curse. The journey can have many stops, even many setbacks and difficulties. The party could have a common enemy. They could need each other to survive; the samurai could have the political clout they need, but the priest is the only one allowed into the shrine of the kami that holds the item they need.
Aufklarung 04-09-07, 05:43 PM	The problem with Rokugan is that I can't really think of something else besides the shadowlands that can make a group of characters from different clans work together from the beggining till the end of the campaign... and too much shadowlands gets borring. To get the full benefit of Rokugan, you'll need to research Legends of the Five Rings. http://www.l5r.com/archive/ Rokugan has alot of material with new official additions every month. L5R takes good care of its supporters/players which is why its considered the best metaplot RPG bar-none...its also a very complex and dizzing task to undertake for either GMs or PCs. There is enough published work on L5R that they could have there own atlas, and history books...oh wait they already do! :D The Clan Letters offer a decent starting point of giving your different PCs a mission (with some minor changes by the DM of course). All the letters correspond in some fashion but with varying agendas so you can have your PCs ending up doing similair missions but in unique ways. In the world of L5R infighting between PCs due to political reasons can actually be a good thing and very intresting to watch. :) Some links for more Rokugan/L5R game ideas numbering over 100: http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=54325 http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=40139
narukagami 04-09-07, 05:46 PM	L5R takes good care of its supporters/players which is why its considered the best metaplot RPG bar-none... Except when books are over two months late, and the only answer we get from AEG is "shut up and deal with it" ;) A more accurate statement would be, "AEG takes decent care of its CCG players, and every so often thinks about the RPG fans, alittle bit."
Aufklarung 04-09-07, 06:26 PM	Except when books are over two months late, and the only answer we get from AEG is "shut up and deal with it" ;) A more accurate statement would be, "AEG takes decent care of its CCG players, and every so often thinks about the RPG fans, alittle bit." Oh yes...the CCG side gets more love then the RPG side. But isn't this due to the fact that its driven by the CCG players while the RPG literature plays catch to make sense of it all? Oriental Adventures takes place during Gold Edition (Hida O-Ushi is listed as the Crab Champion) while Rokugan takes place during A Perfect Cut and An Oni's Fury (her sons Hida Koruda & Kuon are now the Crab Champion and General). Both books were released in 2001...same years as those timelines. The 'Secret' and new 'Way' books series also does well in updating Rokugan in regards to Winds of Change, The Fall of Otosan Uchi and Broken Blades timelines. All in all, AEG doesn't seem that bad considering how dynamic Rokugan/L5R moves and changes.
Azzy 04-10-07, 05:04 AM	Your best bet may be to either create you own or to convert over a setting you are familiar with to support the oriental motifs and such. Kara-Tur is not really an option since I neither know anything about this setting, nor I have any books for it. For $4, you could have everything that you need for Kara Tur (http://paizo.com/store/brand/forgottenRealms/roleplayingGames/1stEdition/v5748btpy7mcy&source=search). Just saying. ;) To get the full benefit of Rokugan, you'll need to research Legends of the Five Rings. http://www.l5r.com/archive/ I think that statement is the most condemning thing you could have said about the setting. The best settings are the ones you can use "out of the box" and don't require further "research."
HidaAkira 04-10-07, 06:23 AM	Um... 1) It is perfectly possible to run a game of Rokugan with only the core rulebook (whichever system you prefer). 2) All settings require 'research' if they are to be detailed in any respect. This holds true for all settings. Look at WoD/DarkSun/Ravenloft/DL/FR/whatever, with their multitude of splatbooks, game editions, novels, computer games, etc. You don't 'need' the extra information, but it is nice to have, especially if you want to mostly stick to canon.
Azzy 04-10-07, 08:04 PM	Um... 1) It is perfectly possible to run a game of Rokugan with only the core rulebook (whichever system you prefer). While I realize that, the poster I quoted made one of the scariest comments you could make about any setting that implied that that wasn't the case. 2) All settings require 'research' if they are to be detailed in any respect. This holds true for all settings. Look at WoD/DarkSun/Ravenloft/DL/FR/whatever, with their multitude of splatbooks, game editions, novels, computer games, etc. And then there's lonely Kara-Tur with its boxed set, 8 modules that have no effect on the setting, a trail may (which is superfluous if you have the boxed set) and a Monstrous Compendium appendix (most of the beasties in it are in OA). The boxed set is everything you need to know about the setting. :D You don't 'need' the extra information, but it is nice to have, especially if you want to mostly stick to canon. Screw "canon." :p Once you get your hands on a prefab campaign setting, it's yours--there's no need to let the designers, rabid fans, setting-lawyer players or the D&D mafia dictate how it should be presented in your games. Sticking to "canon"is an object lesson in masochistic futility--especially when "canon" inevitably gets fouled up with the publication of each splatbook, game edition, novel, computer game, etc. :(
HidaAkira 04-12-07, 06:46 AM	And then there's lonely Kara-Tur with its boxed set, 8 modules that have no effect on the setting, a trail may (which is superfluous if you have the boxed set) and a Monstrous Compendium appendix (most of the beasties in it are in OA). The boxed set is everything you need to know about the setting. I don't have the box, so I can't make informed comments about it, but it sounds like the game has very little flavor information beyond what is in the box. It sounds like you are saying that less information is better because there is less you have to get hold of and you can feel good about monkeying about with what you have. Screw "canon." Once you get your hands on a prefab campaign setting, it's yours--there's no need to let the designers, rabid fans, setting-lawyer players or the D&D mafia dictate how it should be presented in your games. Sticking to "canon"is an object lesson in masochistic futility--especially when "canon" inevitably gets fouled up with the publication of each splatbook, game edition, novel, computer game, etc. Except that lots of people like canon, at least to a certain extent. For those who like to have a rich and detailed world without having to write several hundred pages of information all on their own. For those who like to have a strong political and social framework to work with that isn't just 'generic fantasy world number twelve thousand'. It gives them the opportunity to let players do the small stuff once in a while - they don't always have to run about saving the world. Certainly, I don't know of any GM who has stuck 100% to canon, since they generally want to take the story in their own direction, but most of them have kept generally to the big picture and main events. No PCs being the Seven Thunders, for instance.
Hochiu 04-12-07, 11:24 PM	One of the problems I personally have for a "Canon" game is the fact that I don't feel like it's mine if I'm just using it and I'm using another company's product. I don't know, I can use a rules-set fine, but using fluff? Meh, not so much. Otherwise, I think the fact that a lot of people like to give a stab at building their own campaign worlds is they have ultimate control over what goes on. A few things I like to do is eventually get my players into the "Big events" after a string of long campaigns where it kind of acts as a capstone to the lives of their characters. No, its not ALWAYS the capstone, believe me, I'm more than happy with the greatest treasure they can get after 20 levels of adventuring is the appointment to a position as the head of a town, but using a non-canon world helps to prevent mixing up with the second problem I've found: Continuity. Continuity in the world, through mechanics and storyline, is very important. I know players who want to play Campaign Setting games as strictly a continuous thing, so they try to enforce it. That means that they expect you to follow what WOTC produces when they produce it, leaving you little room for your own changes. Players like this are rare, but they do exist, and I dont want to deal with them. If you're the one creating the continuity, you can set it at your own pace. Just personal feelings.
Azzy 04-16-07, 07:09 PM	Sorry for the delay in responding, but I figured you deserved more than just a half-arsed response. :) I don't have the box, so I can't make informed comments about it, but it sounds like the game has very little flavor information beyond what is in the box. Pretty much. Most of the modules were released prior to the boxed set, so some of the fluff from those were incorporated into the boxed set. The boxed set was, itself, 99.9% fluff--devoting an entire chapter to each major nation and detailing its history, lands, government, etc. It's one of the best presentations of a campaign setting that TSR ever did (Time of the Dragon for Taladas has to be the best)--but please don't mistake me as thinking it was perfect. It sounds like you are saying that less information is better because there is less you have to get hold of and you can feel good about monkeying about with what you have. To an extent. A good setting can't be threadbare or skeletal, there has to be an adequate amount of information to give both DMs and players a good sense of how to play and present the nations, cultures, peoples, etc. of the setting. Supplements and setting expansions can be good, but less is definitely more. Too much elaboration can stymie imaginative DMs, while too many supplements can intimidate new DMs, become a financial burden to existing DMs, and be a pain in the arse to parse and keep track of (<--look a hanging preposition). Combined, the ""too much/too many" can railroad a "canon"-conscious DM into trying to play "keep up" with all the information and stay ahead of the learning curve of the players. In addition, supplements that are released well after the initial setting was published sometimes have the bad effect of detailing part of the setting in a way that is contradictory to how the DM has been presenting it in his game it for years (or even how it was presented in previous supplements, no less). Then there are the blatant retcons--typically between editions--(dig that FR cosmology, for example) and/or monolithic events intended to boost sales (think the Greyhawk Wars, FR's Time of Troubles or Drangonlance's... anything) that end up alienating or splitting the fan base. Certainly, I don't know of any GM who has stuck 100% to canon, since they generally want to take the story in their own direction, but most of them have kept generally to the big picture and main events. No PCs being the Seven Thunders, for instance. Unfortunately, I've know a few (both DMs and players) that were "canon-slaves," as well as the ubiquitous "canon-lawyers." But your comment brings be back to the "monolitic events" and "ego NPCs" (Elminster, Simbul, et al.).... Monolithic events really crap on ongoing campaigns by introducing setting-changing events (usually from out of nowhere) that has to be accounted for by the "canon-conscious," whereas the "ego NPCs" serve only to marginalize the roles of the PCs. Personally, if there are going to be any monolithic events, they need to be implied before they happen in the primary Campaign setting book and should be unveiled relatively slowly--this way a DM isn't caught with his pants down by a non-sequiter turn of events (like gods spontaneously walking around mortal or what not). Ego NPCs, on the other hand, is something that I detest. To an extent I can understand that some of these were literary creations or originally PCs, but c'mon-these "setting NPCs" shouldn't be anything above 10th-level, and should usually have NPC classes except in fairly rare cases. Put the emphasis where it should be--on the PCs. If there's all the high-level NPCs mucking about, there's really no need for the PCs to even exist. Sorry for my ranting, but I really get annoyed by the "two speed only" approach to campaign settings--1) Not Supported At All or 2) Unnecessary Deluge of Supplements. :(