Monkey King [Archive] - Wizards Community

Monkey King [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
sally_jones
03-30-08, 07:13 PM if anyone knows of monkey king from journey to the west, i am trying to come up w/ a monkey king character build. i was thinking either hengeyokai(w/ monkey traits) or vanara as the race. i would appreciate input.
calronmoonflower
03-30-08, 08:40 PM Monkey combines combat and magic very well and therefor is most likely some kind of gish.

In Journey to the West he displayed abjuration, transmutation, and illusion, but almost no other form of magic.

He can most likely be made with a battle sorcerer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererVari antBattleSorcerer).
Kineon_War
04-15-08, 10:23 PM I am playing a campaign based on the Journey to the West too.

To make the Sun Wu Kong (The monkey king) I did the following:

Got the MM1 monkey.
Increased it to 3 HD (small size) - Monkey was only about 4 and a half feet tall.
Awakened it (That gives him 5 HD in Magical Beast).
Gave him levels in Monk, Noble, Rogue and Sorcerer.

I know that multiclassing nerfs him a bit but it reflects the character more and I hate min/ maxing characters anyway.
Count Arioch the 28th
04-17-08, 04:18 PM I know that multiclassing nerfs him a bit but it reflects the character more and I hate min/ maxing characters anyway.

Yeah, characters that are actually useful for anything are so overrated, a REAL man adventures as a mentally retarded eunuch with no arms.
sally_jones
04-19-08, 12:31 AM where do i find this awakening razzmatazz?
Thief_of_Hope
04-19-08, 02:41 AM Player's Handbook, Spells chapter, the spell "Awaken" (5th level druid spell).
aelryinth
04-19-08, 05:20 PM Player's Handbook, Spells chapter, the spell "Awaken" (5th level druid spell).

The Monkey King is an immortal spirit of the CHinese Pantheon, and probably has levels in outsider. How to make a PC monkey king? A Gish Vanara of CG alignment would probably do the job handily.

===Aelryinth
Cherubaddon
04-29-08, 10:27 AM Yeah, characters that are actually useful for anything are so overrated, a REAL man adventures as a mentally retarded eunuch with no arms.

:rofl:

That is sweet. I was laughing for two minutes straight when I saw that. Have a :cookie: .
Kineon_War
04-29-08, 11:03 PM You don't have to make them suck.
Just not make them one-trick-ponies.
Min/ maxed characters make adventures boring because they rock at one or two things (usually combat related) but suck at everything else.
A DM is forced to increase the difficulty of encounters involving the min/ maxed special skills but nerf other encounters (or not include them).

In the case of the Monkey King (back on topic - I'm currently reading "The Journey to the West" for the third time).

1. The Monkey King was not an outsider, he was born on Earth.
However, if you wish you could say that he later attained Celestial status.

2. He was a king. So give him a few levels in noble.

3. He did most of the sneaking around - so a few levels in rogue

4. He was good at unarmed combat and kung fu in general (Monkey style of course) - so a few levels in monk.

5. He knew about magic. I use the M20 magic system but instead of giving him heaps of useless magic spells, I select ones that he has from the book (e.g. mirrior image, summon monster (monkeys and apes only), enlarge, cloud chariot (from OD & D), water breathing etc. I house rule this so it is up to you.

6. Magical Beast is actually a cool class option. BAB as fighters, 2 good saves, dark vision, low-light vision etc. Mnokeys also get great climb and balance checks. You might like to let it have one or more natural armour class bonuses because the Monkey King was a stone monkey.

7. Ideally, the Monkey King would be an epic level character but as this may not fit into all campaigns, you'd have to work out what class levels he took and when to become epic.

So in order to not make a charater that sucks but is multiclassed, consider the following:

*Give him a staff so that he can use the monk's flurry of blows.
*Give him a high dex so he can fight without armour and to help him get his rogue sneak attacks. (Flurry of blows with sneak attacks - ouch)
*Think about spells like Shillelagh, Magical Weapon or True Strike to increase his fighting abilitiy as well.
*Give him some cool kungfu inspired by one of the Monkey Style Kungfus - Stone, Wood, Drunken, Tall or Crafty.

Yeah, characters that are actually useful for anything are so overrated, a REAL man adventures as a mentally retarded eunuch with no arms.
Kineon_War
05-04-08, 11:21 PM There was a thread with a similar name to this that I wrote on about 6 months ago.

What happened to that?

Do threads disappear if they get knocked off the first page?
Count Arioch the 28th
05-07-08, 12:36 PM Kineon, you obviously don't know what "min-max" even means. A "one-trick pony", as you put it, is poorly minmaxed or not minmaxed at all. Anyone can do one thing really well, and sometimes having a decent will save is more important than dealing hundreds of points of damage a round.

In fact, I'd say your monkey king is EXTREMELY min-maxed. You cherry picked a number of classes to get the abilities you want, and matched a specific concept in your mind.

THAT is what min-maxing is.

Edit: furthermore, there is a staff that allows you to use flurry of blows. It's called a "quarterstaff". It's in the player's handbook.
PuppyKhan
05-13-08, 04:47 PM Dragon Magazine had an issue that went a bit into doing a Wuxia type of characters. Ideas that may be useful here as well. Issue 289 I believe. It had articles about multiclasses, movies as sources, and a few house rules such as letting every high level character fly. If you don't want to go that far, just max out the jump skill every level, and get Tumble to at least 5 ranks. It may not have you leaping from mountain top to mountain top, but the farther you can jump, the closer to the concept you get.

For making a Monkey King inspired playable character, I would not try to give him everything at once. Rather keep that in mind as the target of the build and planning your progression. I would make a new race based on the MM1 monkey, just make it larger and intelligent without having to add any buffs or magic to create it. As for class, stick with a monk and high Dex and Wis. Multiclass him as a specialist wizard or sorcerer, but only here an there. 3-1 or even 5-1 in favor of the Monk. He was primarily a fighting type who could through some magic about. 1st and 2nd level wizard spells will give you plenty for that.

Forbidden Kingdom gave him armor, but in Chinese movies, armor doesn't hamper unarmed combat the way the it does in D&D so you could ignore that.

I would not consider any prestige classes. I play a similar type of character (monk w/ some spells) in my game and most every monk/wizard PrC seems to be oriented around a wizard with unarmed strike rather than the other way around.

Actually, the more you advance in Monk, the better it works since the goal is to become an outsider, not quite an immortal but its in a similar vein.

Oh, and get a magic staff.

Min/Maxing is just planning the character out ahead so you can build the concept you want. It means things like putting the high stat in Wis because you know it will help your defense even when flat footed. Do you want your Wis or Con higher? Will more hit points, or better defense be more appropriate for your concept. Everyone does it to some degree. Would a Craft Magic feat be wasted on Monkey, when something like Dodge or Weapon Focus: Staff would be much more useful and appropriate for the character concept? Why does the wizard usually hide behind the fighter instead of jumping in front of him to attack the monsters? Simple, you are maximizing each character's effectiveness and avoiding exposing their weaknesses. That's Min/Maxing in a common way. If you want to get fancy about it, look for a feat called Kung Fu Genius (a Dragon mag somewhere?) so you can put a high stat into Int instead of Wis so one stat will benefit both your defense and your spellcasting. Make sure you have a high enough Str to get the feats you want. Or if you are stuck with a low Str to make everything else work, get the feat Weapon Finesse: Unarmed Strike to compensate. Its not a matter of are you Min/Maxing, its by how much.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sally_jones 03-30-08, 07:13 PM	if anyone knows of monkey king from journey to the west, i am trying to come up w/ a monkey king character build. i was thinking either hengeyokai(w/ monkey traits) or vanara as the race. i would appreciate input.
calronmoonflower 03-30-08, 08:40 PM	Monkey combines combat and magic very well and therefor is most likely some kind of gish. In Journey to the West he displayed abjuration, transmutation, and illusion, but almost no other form of magic. He can most likely be made with a battle sorcerer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererVari antBattleSorcerer).
Kineon_War 04-15-08, 10:23 PM	I am playing a campaign based on the Journey to the West too. To make the Sun Wu Kong (The monkey king) I did the following: Got the MM1 monkey. Increased it to 3 HD (small size) - Monkey was only about 4 and a half feet tall. Awakened it (That gives him 5 HD in Magical Beast). Gave him levels in Monk, Noble, Rogue and Sorcerer. I know that multiclassing nerfs him a bit but it reflects the character more and I hate min/ maxing characters anyway.
Count Arioch the 28th 04-17-08, 04:18 PM	I know that multiclassing nerfs him a bit but it reflects the character more and I hate min/ maxing characters anyway. Yeah, characters that are actually useful for anything are so overrated, a REAL man adventures as a mentally retarded eunuch with no arms.
sally_jones 04-19-08, 12:31 AM	where do i find this awakening razzmatazz?
Thief_of_Hope 04-19-08, 02:41 AM	Player's Handbook, Spells chapter, the spell "Awaken" (5th level druid spell).
aelryinth 04-19-08, 05:20 PM	Player's Handbook, Spells chapter, the spell "Awaken" (5th level druid spell). The Monkey King is an immortal spirit of the CHinese Pantheon, and probably has levels in outsider. How to make a PC monkey king? A Gish Vanara of CG alignment would probably do the job handily. ===Aelryinth
Cherubaddon 04-29-08, 10:27 AM	Yeah, characters that are actually useful for anything are so overrated, a REAL man adventures as a mentally retarded eunuch with no arms. :rofl: That is sweet. I was laughing for two minutes straight when I saw that. Have a :cookie: .
Kineon_War 04-29-08, 11:03 PM	You don't have to make them suck. Just not make them one-trick-ponies. Min/ maxed characters make adventures boring because they rock at one or two things (usually combat related) but suck at everything else. A DM is forced to increase the difficulty of encounters involving the min/ maxed special skills but nerf other encounters (or not include them). In the case of the Monkey King (back on topic - I'm currently reading "The Journey to the West" for the third time). 1. The Monkey King was not an outsider, he was born on Earth. However, if you wish you could say that he later attained Celestial status. 2. He was a king. So give him a few levels in noble. 3. He did most of the sneaking around - so a few levels in rogue 4. He was good at unarmed combat and kung fu in general (Monkey style of course) - so a few levels in monk. 5. He knew about magic. I use the M20 magic system but instead of giving him heaps of useless magic spells, I select ones that he has from the book (e.g. mirrior image, summon monster (monkeys and apes only), enlarge, cloud chariot (from OD & D), water breathing etc. I house rule this so it is up to you. 6. Magical Beast is actually a cool class option. BAB as fighters, 2 good saves, dark vision, low-light vision etc. Mnokeys also get great climb and balance checks. You might like to let it have one or more natural armour class bonuses because the Monkey King was a stone monkey. 7. Ideally, the Monkey King would be an epic level character but as this may not fit into all campaigns, you'd have to work out what class levels he took and when to become epic. So in order to not make a charater that sucks but is multiclassed, consider the following: Give him a staff so that he can use the monk's flurry of blows. Give him a high dex so he can fight without armour and to help him get his rogue sneak attacks. (Flurry of blows with sneak attacks - ouch) Think about spells like Shillelagh, Magical Weapon or True Strike to increase his fighting abilitiy as well. Give him some cool kungfu inspired by one of the Monkey Style Kungfus - Stone, Wood, Drunken, Tall or Crafty. Yeah, characters that are actually useful for anything are so overrated, a REAL man adventures as a mentally retarded eunuch with no arms.
Kineon_War 05-04-08, 11:21 PM	There was a thread with a similar name to this that I wrote on about 6 months ago. What happened to that? Do threads disappear if they get knocked off the first page?
Count Arioch the 28th 05-07-08, 12:36 PM	Kineon, you obviously don't know what "min-max" even means. A "one-trick pony", as you put it, is poorly minmaxed or not minmaxed at all. Anyone can do one thing really well, and sometimes having a decent will save is more important than dealing hundreds of points of damage a round. In fact, I'd say your monkey king is EXTREMELY min-maxed. You cherry picked a number of classes to get the abilities you want, and matched a specific concept in your mind. THAT is what min-maxing is. Edit: furthermore, there is a staff that allows you to use flurry of blows. It's called a "quarterstaff". It's in the player's handbook.
PuppyKhan 05-13-08, 04:47 PM	Dragon Magazine had an issue that went a bit into doing a Wuxia type of characters. Ideas that may be useful here as well. Issue 289 I believe. It had articles about multiclasses, movies as sources, and a few house rules such as letting every high level character fly. If you don't want to go that far, just max out the jump skill every level, and get Tumble to at least 5 ranks. It may not have you leaping from mountain top to mountain top, but the farther you can jump, the closer to the concept you get. For making a Monkey King inspired playable character, I would not try to give him everything at once. Rather keep that in mind as the target of the build and planning your progression. I would make a new race based on the MM1 monkey, just make it larger and intelligent without having to add any buffs or magic to create it. As for class, stick with a monk and high Dex and Wis. Multiclass him as a specialist wizard or sorcerer, but only here an there. 3-1 or even 5-1 in favor of the Monk. He was primarily a fighting type who could through some magic about. 1st and 2nd level wizard spells will give you plenty for that. Forbidden Kingdom gave him armor, but in Chinese movies, armor doesn't hamper unarmed combat the way the it does in D&D so you could ignore that. I would not consider any prestige classes. I play a similar type of character (monk w/ some spells) in my game and most every monk/wizard PrC seems to be oriented around a wizard with unarmed strike rather than the other way around. Actually, the more you advance in Monk, the better it works since the goal is to become an outsider, not quite an immortal but its in a similar vein. Oh, and get a magic staff. Min/Maxing is just planning the character out ahead so you can build the concept you want. It means things like putting the high stat in Wis because you know it will help your defense even when flat footed. Do you want your Wis or Con higher? Will more hit points, or better defense be more appropriate for your concept. Everyone does it to some degree. Would a Craft Magic feat be wasted on Monkey, when something like Dodge or Weapon Focus: Staff would be much more useful and appropriate for the character concept? Why does the wizard usually hide behind the fighter instead of jumping in front of him to attack the monsters? Simple, you are maximizing each character's effectiveness and avoiding exposing their weaknesses. That's Min/Maxing in a common way. If you want to get fancy about it, look for a feat called Kung Fu Genius (a Dragon mag somewhere?) so you can put a high stat into Int instead of Wis so one stat will benefit both your defense and your spellcasting. Make sure you have a high enough Str to get the feats you want. Or if you are stuck with a low Str to make everything else work, get the feat Weapon Finesse: Unarmed Strike to compensate. Its not a matter of are you Min/Maxing, its by how much.