Names of Kara-Tur's Nations [Archive] - Wizards Community

Names of Kara-Tur's Nations [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dark Wizard
02-25-07, 07:43 PM I've always been curious about the names of Kara-Tur's nations, what they could potentially mean, what real world words/characters inspired them. Some of them seem easy to figure out. Koryo is a term from Korean history, Tabot is Tibet with some vowels switched out, Kozakura is probably inspired by Kamakura, Wa taken from Tokugawa. I have no idea what Shou Lung and T'u Lung might mean. What of the other less well known nations, do their names just sound like the culture that they're modeled after or do they have some specific meaning?
Lord Gwydion
02-25-07, 09:38 PM I've always been curious about the names of Kara-Tur's nations, what they could potentially mean, what real world words/characters inspired them. Some of them seem easy to figure out. Koryo is a term from Korean history, Tabot is Tibet with some vowels switched out, Kozakura is probably inspired by Kamakura, Wa taken from Tokugawa. I have no idea what Shou Lung and T'u Lung might mean. What of the other less well known nations, do their names just sound like the culture that they're modeled after or do they have some specific meaning?

Correction on "Wa." It's not an abreviation of Tokugawa, it's actually the old Chinese name for Japan, and the character can also be read as "yamato" in Japanese. It's still used in modern Japanese in reference to things Japanese (washoku=Japanese food, for example), but not usually to the nation itself.
Azzy
02-25-07, 09:43 PM Kozakura is probably inspired by Kamakura

Kozakura is said to mean "Little Cherry Blossom" is the Kara-Tur flavour text. If that's so, it should probably be "Sakura-ko" (桜子) instead, unless I'm mistaken.
Dark Wizard
02-25-07, 09:49 PM Correction on "Wa." It's not an abreviation of Tokugawa, it's actually the old Chinese name for Japan, and the character can also be read as "yamato" in Japanese. It's still used in modern Japanese in reference to things Japanese (washoku=Japanese food, for example), but not usually to the nation itself.

Thank you, that really does makes more sense. :)

Kozakura is said to mean "Little Cherry Blossom" is the Kara-Tur flavour text. If that's so, it should probably be "Sakura-ko" (桜子) instead, unless I'm mistaken.

Sakura-ko -> Ko-sakura -> Ko-zakura. I suppose it's conceivable if Kara-Turans have their own pseudo-Japanese language.

On that note, the name Kara-Tur, perhaps something derived from Kara-Khitai?
narukagami
02-25-07, 09:54 PM Kozakura is said to mean "Little Cherry Blossom" is the Kara-Tur flavour text. If that's so, it should actually be "Sakura-ko" unless I'm mistaken. I'm no linguistics expert, but it seems to me most people with extremely rudimentary knowledge of Japanese language have a tendency to take literal word-by-word translations and slap them together with no regard of proper grammar, structure, and/or usage when attempting to use it in writing.

For example: Rokugan calls the capital Otosan Uchi, which could translate to "Father City" if it wasn't a totally improper use of otosan.

See also: Every piece of L5R fiction ever written. (I swear if I see the honorific/suffix "sama" used alone as a noun and pluralized one more time I'm going to kill the entire story team. And by kill I mean sit around and grumble about them...:P )
Lord Gwydion
02-25-07, 11:48 PM Kozakura is said to mean "Little Cherry Blossom" is the Kara-Tur flavour text.

If that's the case, then Kozakura is correct. "Ko" would mean small, not child in this case (小桜).
aelryinth
02-26-07, 02:08 AM Shou lung is supposed to translate as Heavenly Dragon. T'u lung is supposed to translate as the Earth Dragon. Basically a high minded, united china under heaven, and a more corrupt later one divided by nobles and merchants.

===Aelryinth
Occam
02-26-07, 01:21 PM Shou lung is supposed to translate as Heavenly Dragon. T'u lung is supposed to translate as the Earth Dragon. Basically a high minded, united china under heaven, and a more corrupt later one divided by nobles and merchants.

Shou Lung is claimed to translate as "Receiver of the Dragon", as it was the nation which received the first laws of the Path of Enlightenment, magically inscribed on the Cliffs of Tanghai, IIRC.

I don't know that "Kara-Tur" has any particular origin, other than someone's idea of a cool name. I've thought it sounds suspiciously like "character", though.
CaptKillern
03-12-07, 09:55 PM The Island of Bava is the Island of Java. Though the real Java is just 1 island of many that makes up indonesia. Though Java does account for something like 60% of the entire population of the country.
Swordsage_Master
03-13-07, 12:34 AM I don't know that "Kara-Tur" has any particular origin, other than someone's idea of a cool name. I've thought it sounds suspiciously like "character", though.
Gamed and DM'ed FR since it first came out and from what I can remember, Kara-Tur is a generic terminology the people of the western lands (traditional FR lands) call the whole of the "FR orient" beyond the Hordelands. Kind of like the use of the word "Orient" as a generic (and albeit ignorant) descriptor for the whole of Asia...:) or even "Asia" that is also a generic descriptor.:)

It seems I read this somewhere but I can't remember from where or what source. It may have been a discussion I was having with a friend when Kara-Tur was hot and the original OA was a reference we used. I remember that we were talking about how TSR had originally slated Kara-Tur to be a Greyhawk setting and changed due to FR popularity. I seem to recall him telling me that and giving me something in a published works about it. This was many, many, many, many, many years ago but I'll keep checking to find it.
Zumarai
03-13-07, 12:20 PM The Island of Bava is the Island of Java. Though the real Java is just 1 island of many that makes up indonesia.

I think you're thinking of "Bawa", which is the Realms equivalent of Taiwan.
Rogue Shadows
03-15-07, 02:47 PM I have a funny fealing Kara-Tur does mean something. Someone with the time to come up with a name like Faerūn - which means something like "secret" or "lost" in Gaelic, I'll have to double-check with my dad - probably would also want to invent an Oriental name with an actual meaning.
CaptKillern
03-15-07, 06:57 PM I think you're thinking of "Bawa", which is the Realms equivalent of Taiwan.

I believe you are incorrect. My reasoning is as follows. The Island of Java is call Pulau Jawa or Jawa island by the natives. Its people are called Javanese.

The names of the NPC's are indonesian names

The island of Bawa refers to its people as Bavanese. Most of the monsters and spirits are indonesian where the island of Java is located.

For example:

under spirits of Bawa
lelembut
"lelembut kind of trouble-making invisible spirit
(kata tidak umum - not a common word)"
http://www.asiamaya.com/dictionary/lelembut.htm

tujul
"Tuyul is a tiny spirit creature. It usually cooperate with bad people to steal money and so far it's only known in Indonesia."
http://orosdiono.blogspot.com/2006/08/would-you-like-to-see-tuyul.html

gendruwo
"gendruwo (Javanese) malevolent (male) spirit
(kata umum - a common word)"
http://www.asiatour.com/indo-english/kamus/g/gendruwo.htm

sundel bolong
"sundel bolong horror indonesia"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_ybpcu9FRQ

If you google search under memedi it also refers to an indonesian word, but the link is broken.

So Bawa = Java
http://www.geocities.com/omimachifuri/clothes.htm

Of course I am willing to listen to your reasoning as to whyyou believe it is supposed to be Taiwan...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dark Wizard 02-25-07, 07:43 PM	I've always been curious about the names of Kara-Tur's nations, what they could potentially mean, what real world words/characters inspired them. Some of them seem easy to figure out. Koryo is a term from Korean history, Tabot is Tibet with some vowels switched out, Kozakura is probably inspired by Kamakura, Wa taken from Tokugawa. I have no idea what Shou Lung and T'u Lung might mean. What of the other less well known nations, do their names just sound like the culture that they're modeled after or do they have some specific meaning?
Lord Gwydion 02-25-07, 09:38 PM	I've always been curious about the names of Kara-Tur's nations, what they could potentially mean, what real world words/characters inspired them. Some of them seem easy to figure out. Koryo is a term from Korean history, Tabot is Tibet with some vowels switched out, Kozakura is probably inspired by Kamakura, Wa taken from Tokugawa. I have no idea what Shou Lung and T'u Lung might mean. What of the other less well known nations, do their names just sound like the culture that they're modeled after or do they have some specific meaning? Correction on "Wa." It's not an abreviation of Tokugawa, it's actually the old Chinese name for Japan, and the character can also be read as "yamato" in Japanese. It's still used in modern Japanese in reference to things Japanese (washoku=Japanese food, for example), but not usually to the nation itself.
Azzy 02-25-07, 09:43 PM	Kozakura is probably inspired by Kamakura Kozakura is said to mean "Little Cherry Blossom" is the Kara-Tur flavour text. If that's so, it should probably be "Sakura-ko" (桜子) instead, unless I'm mistaken.
Dark Wizard 02-25-07, 09:49 PM	Correction on "Wa." It's not an abreviation of Tokugawa, it's actually the old Chinese name for Japan, and the character can also be read as "yamato" in Japanese. It's still used in modern Japanese in reference to things Japanese (washoku=Japanese food, for example), but not usually to the nation itself. Thank you, that really does makes more sense. :) Kozakura is said to mean "Little Cherry Blossom" is the Kara-Tur flavour text. If that's so, it should probably be "Sakura-ko" (桜子) instead, unless I'm mistaken. Sakura-ko -> Ko-sakura -> Ko-zakura. I suppose it's conceivable if Kara-Turans have their own pseudo-Japanese language. On that note, the name Kara-Tur, perhaps something derived from Kara-Khitai?
narukagami 02-25-07, 09:54 PM	Kozakura is said to mean "Little Cherry Blossom" is the Kara-Tur flavour text. If that's so, it should actually be "Sakura-ko" unless I'm mistaken. I'm no linguistics expert, but it seems to me most people with extremely rudimentary knowledge of Japanese language have a tendency to take literal word-by-word translations and slap them together with no regard of proper grammar, structure, and/or usage when attempting to use it in writing. For example: Rokugan calls the capital Otosan Uchi, which could translate to "Father City" if it wasn't a totally improper use of otosan. See also: Every piece of L5R fiction ever written. (I swear if I see the honorific/suffix "sama" used alone as a noun and pluralized one more time I'm going to kill the entire story team. And by kill I mean sit around and grumble about them...:P )
Lord Gwydion 02-25-07, 11:48 PM	Kozakura is said to mean "Little Cherry Blossom" is the Kara-Tur flavour text. If that's the case, then Kozakura is correct. "Ko" would mean small, not child in this case (小桜).
aelryinth 02-26-07, 02:08 AM	Shou lung is supposed to translate as Heavenly Dragon. T'u lung is supposed to translate as the Earth Dragon. Basically a high minded, united china under heaven, and a more corrupt later one divided by nobles and merchants. ===Aelryinth
Occam 02-26-07, 01:21 PM	Shou lung is supposed to translate as Heavenly Dragon. T'u lung is supposed to translate as the Earth Dragon. Basically a high minded, united china under heaven, and a more corrupt later one divided by nobles and merchants. Shou Lung is claimed to translate as "Receiver of the Dragon", as it was the nation which received the first laws of the Path of Enlightenment, magically inscribed on the Cliffs of Tanghai, IIRC. I don't know that "Kara-Tur" has any particular origin, other than someone's idea of a cool name. I've thought it sounds suspiciously like "character", though.
CaptKillern 03-12-07, 09:55 PM	The Island of Bava is the Island of Java. Though the real Java is just 1 island of many that makes up indonesia. Though Java does account for something like 60% of the entire population of the country.
Swordsage_Master 03-13-07, 12:34 AM	I don't know that "Kara-Tur" has any particular origin, other than someone's idea of a cool name. I've thought it sounds suspiciously like "character", though. Gamed and DM'ed FR since it first came out and from what I can remember, Kara-Tur is a generic terminology the people of the western lands (traditional FR lands) call the whole of the "FR orient" beyond the Hordelands. Kind of like the use of the word "Orient" as a generic (and albeit ignorant) descriptor for the whole of Asia...:) or even "Asia" that is also a generic descriptor.:) It seems I read this somewhere but I can't remember from where or what source. It may have been a discussion I was having with a friend when Kara-Tur was hot and the original OA was a reference we used. I remember that we were talking about how TSR had originally slated Kara-Tur to be a Greyhawk setting and changed due to FR popularity. I seem to recall him telling me that and giving me something in a published works about it. This was many, many, many, many, many years ago but I'll keep checking to find it.
Zumarai 03-13-07, 12:20 PM	The Island of Bava is the Island of Java. Though the real Java is just 1 island of many that makes up indonesia. I think you're thinking of "Bawa", which is the Realms equivalent of Taiwan.
Rogue Shadows 03-15-07, 02:47 PM	I have a funny fealing Kara-Tur does mean something. Someone with the time to come up with a name like Faerūn - which means something like "secret" or "lost" in Gaelic, I'll have to double-check with my dad - probably would also want to invent an Oriental name with an actual meaning.
CaptKillern 03-15-07, 06:57 PM	I think you're thinking of "Bawa", which is the Realms equivalent of Taiwan. I believe you are incorrect. My reasoning is as follows. The Island of Java is call Pulau Jawa or Jawa island by the natives. Its people are called Javanese. The names of the NPC's are indonesian names The island of Bawa refers to its people as Bavanese. Most of the monsters and spirits are indonesian where the island of Java is located. For example: under spirits of Bawa lelembut "lelembut kind of trouble-making invisible spirit (kata tidak umum - not a common word)" http://www.asiamaya.com/dictionary/lelembut.htm tujul "Tuyul is a tiny spirit creature. It usually cooperate with bad people to steal money and so far it's only known in Indonesia." http://orosdiono.blogspot.com/2006/08/would-you-like-to-see-tuyul.html gendruwo "gendruwo (Javanese) malevolent (male) spirit (kata umum - a common word)" http://www.asiatour.com/indo-english/kamus/g/gendruwo.htm sundel bolong "sundel bolong horror indonesia" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_ybpcu9FRQ If you google search under memedi it also refers to an indonesian word, but the link is broken. So Bawa = Java http://www.geocities.com/omimachifuri/clothes.htm Of course I am willing to listen to your reasoning as to whyyou believe it is supposed to be Taiwan...