Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RoyalBlueEyes 04-12-08, 01:23 PM	Hey all, I've been perusing other boards, with the lack of life on this one. I've seen many debates (tried to stay out of one involving the CW Samurai, myself), and read through the countless pages bashing the ToB and the entirety of the PHB. So, with this lovely little confliction, I was thinking about the OA/Rokugan Samurai. The OA Samurai has a good fort and will save, it has the ancestral daisho, starts off with two masterwork weapons, has 4+Int skill points, and gains Fighter Bonus feats. How then, does the class stack up against other classes? It all ready surpasses the Fighter. The Barbarian? The Rogue? Ranger? How about the ToB classes? I don't ask to be combative or to prove superiority, I simply think such old material can then be applied to the Fighter class to make it better than it's current state.
aelryinth 04-12-08, 02:05 PM	If it surpasses the Fighter, as you say, then it surpasses all the other melee classes, too. It comes down to, are the additional benefits of the samurai worth 4 bonus feats? Ancestral Relic duplicates the empowering effect of the Samurai Swords. Adamant Resolve effectively grants a good Will save. THe Fighter has heavy armor prof and shields, the samurai does not. And the Fighter still has two bonus feats to go. No alignment restriction, either. So...mmm, toss-up. The extra skill points are nice, and everyone knows the Fighter should have them, too. You just have to decide which you want more. ===Aelryinth
narukagami 04-12-08, 02:16 PM	Hey all, I've been perusing other boards, with the lack of life on this one. I've seen many debates (tried to stay out of one involving the CW Samurai, myself), and read through the countless pages bashing the ToB and the entirety of the PHB. So, with this lovely little confliction, I was thinking about the OA/Rokugan Samurai. The OA Samurai has a good fort and will save, it has the ancestral daisho, starts off with two masterwork weapons, has 4+Int skill points, and gains Fighter Bonus feats. How then, does the class stack up against other classes? It all ready surpasses the Fighter. The Barbarian? The Rogue? Ranger? How about the ToB classes? I don't ask to be combative or to prove superiority, I simply think such old material can then be applied to the Fighter class to make it better than it's current state. Hm, how the OA Samurai stacks up against others? I'd say "ok, but not very well." Yeah, its better than the straight Fighter, but only slightly. Surpassing the Fighter isn't hard at all, rare is the class that doesn't surpass the Fighter, and to my knowledge there are only 4, one of which is the CW Samurai. Its not nearly up to the same level as a raging Barb offensively, defensively, maybe. The Rogue still has more tricks than the samurai can shake his masterwork weapons at, though the Rogue is a "skill monkey" and not really a "melee fighter," they fill different rolls. OA Samurai and Ranger are probably pretty close until the ranger gets his spells, then its Ranger hands down. With the sheer number of options the ToB classes get offensively, defensively, and in battlefield control, the OA Samurai is not nearly up to par.
narukagami 04-12-08, 02:31 PM	If it surpasses the Fighter, as you say, then it surpasses all the other melee classes, too. The CO boards would like to have a word with you.;)
aelryinth 04-13-08, 06:19 PM	We aren't talking PrC's. And I argue with CO's and their "the only good melee is an uber charger" mindset all the time, as well as their orgiastic love of casters and imbalanced spells. Talk to the fighter experts, and the Fighter has absolutely no problem holding his ground against the other melee classes whatsoever. It just takes more skill to build a good one, since you don't get your uber class abilities handed to you on a platter...you actually have to go out and find them. That said, I love the basic, simple setup of the OA samurai, the fact you don't need a spellcaster to upgrade your swords, the good will save, the proper skill points, and so forth. It's a good, balanced, basic melee build. Has it taken into account the powering up effect of melee in later books (OA is what, 5 years old now?)? No...and it should. But, that's a seperate argument. ===Aelryinth