Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sir Elton 05-17-06, 06:31 PM	Okay, all OA to SRD discussions can move here. Hochiu, lets see that letter. You beat me to it, but I wanted to go to the local library to see if they have a certain book about writing petitions. Then I can read the book and write the best petition letter I could based on what I read in the book. Hopefully, such a letter will address that it would be in the best interest of Wizards and everyone going to be involved. Elton Robb
Hochiu 05-17-06, 09:44 PM	This is the letter I wrote that I'm going to probably mail in personally. Please note it's as if its written FROM me to them, so there's a distinct personal twist to it. Dear Wizards, This letter is to alert you to the support and desire for the release of your product Oriental Adventures to the System Reference Document (SRD). It has been several years since Wizards of the Coast has published anything using the rules for 3e/3.5 edition Oriental Adventures and the book itself was published sometime around the year 2001. It is now 2006 and when October comes around, it’ll be five years since the release of that book. Since then, numerous amounts of material have been released to the SRD, including the material covering psionics from the Expanded Psionics Handbook. Is this because psionics are somehow more popular than supplemental rules for creating Asian-themed games? The Oriental Adventures book and material simply doesn’t get enough play because they have virtually no supplemental material published for it. There are no web-enhancements, there are no new books, there’s not even an Asian themed campaign setting that’s endorsed by your company. TSR had Kara-Tur. Wizards has…? What is there to lose by publishing the material from Oriental Adventures to the SRD? Is it because a lot of the fluff material is tied in with AEG’s Rokugan setting? I would think that could be easily extricated and deny the Shugenja the right to be released. As far as I can tell, the Shugenja class is the only one from the OA book that is almost uniquely featured to the Rokugan setting, although TSR used a derivation of the term for the now called 3.0 Shaman. The benefits of releasing the rules for OA to the SRD are thus: 1. It gives players who are wishy-washy about the book itself a chance to look over the material. While some people strictly use the SRD in game play, it could very well stimulate others to go out and actually purchase the book. So a possibility of increased sales of the book is in the cards. I know personally that I can’t use computer-based material, that it’s easier for me to use a hard copy. 2. It allows 3rd party publishers to capitalize on rules presented in the supplement. I was under the impression that a proliferation of gaming is always a good thing. Again, this boosts sales because if the book requires the material from Oriental Adventures then they need to go out and buy the book for reasons that coincide with point 1. 3. It will give more Oriental-themed games play, and could possibly enhance the renown of the OA boards. Currently, there are about fifteen people who regularly frequent the Oriental Adventures board and we see very little growth in terms of new membership. If people have more exposure to the OA material through the SRD then more people will come to the forums dedicated to that very material. Despite the rumors, we’re NOT bad people; we have an unfair reputation for meanness. As I sit here, browsing through the SRD right now, I notice that aside from Psionics, it includes material from Deities and Demigods, the Epic Level Handbook, and Manual of the Planes. I can personally attest that I have no need for the information from those books whether in hard print or electronic format. Even Psionics, of which I’m personally a big fan of, gets less use by my group than OA does. Not to mention the three books listed above. If Deities and Demigods, the Epic Level Handbook, Manual of the Planes, and Expanded Psionics Handbook have all had material released to the SRD, then there’s absolutely no reason why Oriental Adventures could not join in. Is it a question of time or a legal question with AEG? If its time, I’d gladly donate my own to it. I’ll even sign a waiver claiming it to be completely voluntary with no intention of compensation or the like for it. I simply want to see the whole of the OA supplemental material released to the SRD (Sans the Rokugan flavor). In my opinion, it would be beneficial to the d20 gaming world as well as Wizards of the Coast. The choice is ultimately up to you, Wizards. I don’t know the process material goes through to be considered for the SRD, but I am willing to do the work of transcribing the information, editing out the Rokugan flavor text and giving you the material ready to be uploaded to the SRD. Thank you for your time and consideration of this letter. <insert real name here> Alias: Hochiu
Sir Elton 05-17-06, 10:59 PM	It looks pretty good, Hochiu. :D
Balor von Balorvitch 05-18-06, 08:15 AM	Looks cool. I will throw my lot in with the OA in the SRD.
babysamurai 05-18-06, 08:34 AM	I would definitely be stoked to see OA in the SRD. ...count me in.
heretic888 05-18-06, 08:35 AM	1) heretic888
Darien_CR 05-18-06, 10:05 AM	The letter looks great. However, don't you think it is a little too personal? I mean, we should let WotC know many people are interested in integrating OA into the SRD, not just one person. I believe we could have higher chances if we do it this way. Just my opinion. I'm in, whatever the case.
Hochiu 05-18-06, 10:16 AM	Well, as I said, it was originally intended for hard copy to be mailed to Wizards, or at least an email to the right person. I don't know whether filling out one giant petition or sending in a lot of smaller, personalized letters that show the different needs of people would be better. I threw it together in 15 minutes. Heh. Yes, we'll need to change it.
narukagami 05-18-06, 11:29 AM	Does this thread count as the petition? If so, I'm in, if not, I'm still in, just waiting for the real one!
Sir Elton 05-18-06, 02:42 PM	This thread isn't the real one. And I'm not posting Hochiu's letter on an on-line petition system until it's revised and I got the go ahead. :) Remember, we are doing this as an on-line petition. We aren't resurrecting a dead campaign world, just making pieces of Game Elements available on the SRD. :)
Azzy 05-18-06, 08:32 PM	You've got my support. Just point me at the real petition when it's ready.
Dreamstryder 05-19-06, 07:12 PM	Aye. I think posting a link in this thread when the real deal's ready, perhaps in the first post, would be good.
Sir Elton 05-19-06, 10:07 PM	Aye! :D
Norsesmithy 05-19-06, 11:07 PM	I will also support this movement, it might be nice to add the OA samurai to my campains.
Cli' San Aquanova 05-20-06, 06:44 PM	A good letter, Hochiu. As I said in the other thread, I pledge my support to such a petition. Good job thus far, y'all. Maybe we can make something happen after all.... -C'SA :u:Bring Back Merfolk!!!:u:
Joni-san 05-20-06, 07:24 PM	I support the movement for inclusion of OA material into the SRD. Especially the OA Samurai
Sir Elton 05-25-06, 11:24 PM	Hochiu, I PMed you.
Hochiu 05-26-06, 01:26 AM	I saw. I've been busy having something called a "real life" or the closest aproximation.
Celerian 05-26-06, 12:11 PM	Is that some sort of new rules supplement? :confused:
Witchblade 05-31-06, 04:43 PM	Count me in, I'd love to see what the book has to offer. I can't seem to find it anywhere...
ZenZ 05-31-06, 06:30 PM	Add me to the choirus
Sir Elton 05-31-06, 06:49 PM	:thumbsup: Great!
steamboat28 06-01-06, 11:18 AM	Same here, I'm totally for seeing OA in the (or it's own?) SRD. However, my favorite part of OA was the Rokugani flavor; it's why I started playing it. Rather than learning a whole new system, I could use my favorite d20 system to play in one of my favorite fictional worlds. So, if I were to make any kind of amendment to that post, it would be to release the OA-minus-Rokugan to the SRD ASAP, and request/secure/gather/beat over the head with a tire iron/politely ask/whatever necessary AEG to acquiesce to the adding of the Rokugani-specific stuff (including Shugenja, 'cuz they're awesome) to the SRD at a later date. my 2 cp.
narukagami 06-01-06, 11:38 AM	Ok, I've had it. There is mechanicly nothing in OA that could not be put in the SRD without AEG permission except the Rokugan flavor text and maybe the clan specific classes in the back of the book and maybe also the shadowlands oni. Shugenja appear pretty much as-is in Complete Divine, so there is more than ample proof that WotC owns their d20 mechanics. Why does everyone assume AEG has any control over the class? And for Nezumi? Ever seen the Kamigawa line of magic cards? Something WotC owned that features them almost exactly as they are in Rokugan. Hell, taint rules? UA and Heros of Horror anyone? I could go on all day ranting and raving about how none of the OA mechanics have jack to do with AEG intellectual property (with a few exceptions), and how only the flavor does. So in short: Stop assuming AEG has any control over the mechanics of OA, they don't. Period.
steamboat28 06-01-06, 12:30 PM	Let me preface this with stating that I, personally, and copyright-law-stupid, so all my opinions on this matter are ill-informed in the legal regard. -------- I totally forgot Shugenja were in CD...wow. I was referring more to the clan-specific mechanics, like Samurai bonus feats, Shugenja spell schools...but those could be replaced with other names if they caused issues, I suppose. Very little of the mechanical content is Rokugan-specific, unless you're using the Rokugan Campaign Setting, or Magic of Rokugan (which I like for the alt. rules for making Ancestral Daisho intelligent)
Ranger REG 06-02-06, 06:42 AM	Same here, I'm totally for seeing OA in the (or it's own?) SRD. However, my favorite part of OA was the Rokugani flavor; it's why I started playing it. Meh. :bored: I've been playing OA since Kara-Tur was introduced in 1988. (Technically, OA 1e came out in 1985, but the Asia-flavored setting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kara-Tur) was fleshed out in 1988.) So, if I were to make any kind of amendment to that post, it would be to release the OA-minus-Rokugan to the SRD ASAP, and request/secure/gather/beat over the head with a tire iron/politely ask/whatever necessary AEG to acquiesce to the adding of the Rokugani-specific stuff (including Shugenja, 'cuz they're awesome) to the SRD at a later date. my 2 cp. How do I say this with politeness? :thinks: Oh, yeah... :lightbulb Screw Rokugan. All I care about is the OA game mechanics. AEG can go screw with Rokugan/L5R six ways 'til Sunday. :eek: If WotC can remove Rokugan the same way they removed Greyhawk references in the core rules material that form the basis of the SRD, then I'm ecstatic.
Sir Elton 06-02-06, 08:05 AM	They should be able too. That's the whole idea of placing game elements in the SRD.
limetom 06-02-06, 10:41 AM	I'm in. There is not much that really is Rokugani specific, except possibly the flavor. I don't see much reason why they couldn't put most of the material into the SRD.
Nobunaga Oda 06-02-06, 12:50 PM	Count Uncle Oda in :) ! I really, really want the OA Samurai being OGL.
trolloc 06-02-06, 05:00 PM	it kinda sucks the classes in OA arent acknowledge in the PHB II at the expanded classes chapter.
Hochiu 06-02-06, 06:12 PM	it kinda sucks the classes in OA arent acknowledge in the PHB II at the expanded classes chapter. I'd expect they really didn't include many Asian-influenced classes due to the fact that its just the general Eurocentric PHBII, nothing else really. But then again, they have the Wizard and Sorcerer in that book flying around on carpets. I have no clue.
Ranger REG 06-02-06, 06:59 PM	it kinda sucks the classes in OA arent acknowledge in the PHB II at the expanded classes chapter. Trust me, we're better off. If they had their way, they would have used the versions in the Complete series. :noway:
Hochiu 06-02-06, 10:20 PM	So I decided I'm converting all of what I think is SRD-worthy material from my 3.0 book into 3.5 in a giant document file to submit to wizards with a cover letter saying I give up any and all rights to the man power I'm putting into turning this into an SRD. Whee.
Azzy 06-02-06, 10:24 PM	So I decided I'm converting all of what I think is SRD-worthy material from my 3.0 book into 3.5 in a giant document file to submit to wizards with a cover letter saying I give up any and all rights to the man power I'm putting into turning this into an SRD. Just remember to make any necessary changes as per the errata and the 3.5 update from Dragon.
Hochiu 06-02-06, 11:46 PM	Aye, I transcribed the issue from Dragon (most of it) to a .doc a little bit ago, so I'm doin that. I'm kind of making up stuff as I go along though...like..I need to create a list for the Samurai bonus feats, I dont know what to do with them.
Nobunaga Oda 06-02-06, 11:55 PM	Aye, I transcribed the issue from Dragon (most of it) to a .doc a little bit ago, so I'm doin that. I'm kind of making up stuff as I go along though...like..I need to create a list for the Samurai bonus feats, I dont know what to do with them. Take the clan requisites and add most of the feats from the lists.
Azzy 06-03-06, 12:31 AM	Aye, I transcribed the issue from Dragon (most of it) to a .doc a little bit ago, so I'm doin that. I'm kind of making up stuff as I go along though...like..I need to create a list for the Samurai bonus feats, I dont know what to do with them. Eh, keep them as is, just rename the clan-based bonus feat groups into "schools" (or, "ryuu") with psuedo-martial arts sounding names. Sorta like the clan-based shugenja schools were changed to "orders" in Complete Divine.
Sir Elton 06-03-06, 11:15 AM	Just remember, there were over a thousand different kenjutsu styles in Sengoku Japan. Not all of them are well documented, so use some flowery names to represent the eight major schools.
Witchblade 06-03-06, 07:13 PM	So I decided I'm converting all of what I think is SRD-worthy material from my 3.0 book into 3.5 in a giant document file to submit to wizards with a cover letter saying I give up any and all rights to the man power I'm putting into turning this into an SRD. Whee. That would be really, really cool.
Meldethar 06-03-06, 09:18 PM	Hey all This is my first post in a D&D forum. I love the game, and wish I had more of a community to play in in my area (I'm in a backwoods town where most are occupied with cars, tobacco, and the like :( ). More so, however, I love oriental-flavored things such as anime, Samurai, Ninjas, etc. Any time I see Rurouni Kenshin or Ronin Warriors or whatever on the TV, I almost immediately drop everything and watch it. (What can I say? Japanese are geniuses) With limited funds, I haven't been able to purchase my own copy of oriental adventures, but I've sat and read parts of it during dead times in my local hobby shop where me and my friends also play MtG. And from what I've seen, it could very well be one of my favorite supplements and definately one I'd like to buy next. If I could get more flavor of it in the SRD, it'd be even better, and may inspire me even more to buy the book. This petition definately has my support.
Ranger REG 06-03-06, 10:03 PM	Any time I see Rurouni Kenshin or Ronin Warriors or whatever on the TV, I almost immediately drop everything and watch it. (What can I say? Japanese are geniuses) Meh. It's like you're watching Sesame Street when you should be watching NOVA. :smirk: While anime are entertainng, I leaned toward chanbara, taiga drama, and almost like anime, jidai-geki.
Sir Elton 06-03-06, 10:11 PM	Although, sometimes you have to admit, anime is produced in better quality. I think. Anyway, I got a movie version of the story of the 47 Ronin, and it's very good. Made in the Sixties by Toho, so the music track gets reused. Some Japanese live-action films aren't very good, but some are. You just need to pick and choose. Just like some anime aren't very good, but some are. :D
Azzy 06-04-06, 12:20 AM	Meh. It's like you're watching Sesame Street when you should be watching NOVA. :smirk: While anime are entertainng, I leaned toward chanbara, taiga drama, and almost like anime, jidai-geki. I prefer not to limit myself, and watch all of the above (anime included) when available. Of course, sci-fi/mecha anime is probably my favourite.
Ranger REG 06-04-06, 03:27 AM	Although, sometimes you have to admit, anime is produced in better quality.If you filter out the Kodomo-type anime (Crayon Shinchan and Hello Kitty) and any anime that doesn't use face fault (i.e., stress marks like big teardrop to represent embarrassment) then yeah. It's the reason why I have Animatrix in my DVD collection. But when it comes to samurai, I prefer the blood-spurting chanbara or high-jumping jidai geki ... all live action. Taiga drama, while almost historically accurate, pull out all the stops on wardrobe. Of course, it's better to see them live, like the Honolulu Festival in Hawaii.
steamboat28 06-04-06, 12:01 PM	Back on topic, If anyone wants help gathering the SRD-worthy material, let me know. I have nothing but free time and organizational OCD.
madmonk 06-09-06, 07:24 PM	The oriental adventures in the srd should not be a pettition, it should be reality... it should have been since years ago, and also the versions in the OA book should have been the ones in the complete series... well, the samurai is the only one that really sucks, the others are almost the same. So yes, count me in the list of wanting OA in the SRD, just a quick reminder to the persons working on it... remember cutting all rokugan stuff. I know its obvious but better well prepared. Ganbatte kudasai!
Sir Elton 06-17-06, 01:44 AM	Hi! I'd like everyone to know that the project is still going on. It's not formost in my mind, but it's still going. I'm actually going to a library tomorrow to see if I can find books on petition writing. :D
Banaticus 08-13-06, 08:12 PM	Most people never write to companies expressing their thoughts. Thus, any letter that a company receives actually represents 10 people who didn't send in a letter. The best thing to do right now is to write a letter yourself and mail it in. Then, after you've done that, work on a petition that people can sign their name to.
vgeisz 08-16-06, 07:40 PM	Count me in I love the OA and have since the first OA book in 1ed :fight!: Vern
stoneshape 08-17-06, 09:30 PM	hi I appreciate your initiative its great to see!!! I would sign a petition to keep oriental adventures going in any format! Oh Boy, I don't know where to start, or what to say. Ideally WotC 3.5 should have in full length/written detail and hard back print the following asian based books 1 dmg 2 players hand book 3 a monster manual 4 a campain setting with big poster map 5 a players option book 6 a long adventure 1st-10th 7 a regional book 8 another regional book Why can't they just have a small run of these books, then when sold out make people order them, enough orders start the presses. Doesn't suite their bottom line? Don't they have large % of rpg market? I'd be more than happy to purchase all of these books!!! Even take out half "the picture quota" leave the remaining half in black and white, and while were at it don't bother with those little flecks and aged? looking fancy paper! Don't get me wrong FR is great i've got plenty hard backs! Heck UA generic classes have a place in my heart also! The monk was in AD&D1st ed, i've got fond memories and i'm getting old!!! I'm new to these boards and new to computers and i've just returned to gaming (I got plenty out of my books even when I wasn't gaming) There seems more at play here than just profit. When i read here only 15 regular OA contributors, i had to give my 2 cents.. I made 2 posts here today before writting this, i had no idea, 15 regulars (i hope that was a typo!) An asian setting can't but help D&D, I'd welcome others also... Build it and they will come As to the petition, i'm no expert but i think you got about the correct length, I would make the point that its not just you as others have suggested, timing and completness are important, a real letter and email is probably best, and make sure petition has allot of names, unfortunately "big" names might be important Good luck to us all
soul_knife4359 08-29-06, 05:29 PM	i was just wondering where this effort is at the moment?
narukagami 08-29-06, 07:28 PM	i was just wondering where this effort is at the moment? Guess it died when we avoided posting stuff as they were losing posts with all the upgrade attempts.
RavinRay 09-01-06, 08:59 AM	Well, count me in for the proposal. Has anyone ever attempted to scan the text from the book and do an SRD-style file out of it, strictly for in-house personal use only? I know I would.
Lord Gwydion 09-03-06, 04:01 AM	Well, count me in for the proposal. Has anyone ever attempted to scan the text from the book and do an SRD-style file out of it, strictly for in-house personal use only? I know I would. Well, I didn't scan the books, but I did type up files that included the 3.5 changes in Dragon Magazine #318 and some houserule changes I wanted to make. Took a long time to do, and I haven't gotten to use it since then since no one ever wants to play an OA game...
Sir Elton 09-04-06, 03:46 PM	boy, most people are fickle, aren't they? :yuck:
Ranger REG 09-04-06, 06:38 PM	boy, most people are fickle, aren't they? :yuck: You're finding that NOW? :uh-huh:
GreyLord 09-05-06, 04:26 AM	Well, I didn't scan the books, but I did type up files that included the 3.5 changes in Dragon Magazine #318 and some houserule changes I wanted to make. Took a long time to do, and I haven't gotten to use it since then since no one ever wants to play an OA game... Are those postable on the net and if so could some one some how make that available (seeing I can't get my hands on Dragon 318 anywhere).
Lord Gwydion 09-05-06, 05:19 AM	Wow, these files I made are apparently pretty popular. I've had several requests for the files already today. I'm hesitant to send them out, though. They're basically copyright of WotC and James Wyatt, since the majority of it is just what's in OA and the Dragon #318 update. I think most of the changes I did were in regards to spell casting duration, a tweek to the Wu Jen, changing around Samurai bonus feat lists to be non-Rokugan specific, plus updates of a few 3.0 PrCs that at the time I made it hadn't been updated, some of which still haven't been. Now that I think about it, we should add Jason Carl (author of Sword and Fist) to the list of those with copyright on this. Anyway, this whole thing is for my own personal use, and as long as I hold onto it, I'm sure I won't get into any trouble for violation of copyright or IP. If we can finally get WotC to release information in OA under the OGL, I'll be happy to distribute this to anyone that asks. Anyway, it's time consuming, but the classes are the easy part. Just use the rtf SRD and edit it for the OA classes. If you just need the classes updated, that part is easy to do on your own (erase a few bonus feats from the Fighter, change the Will save and skill list, and Bob's your uncle with the Samurai, etc.).
RavinRay 09-05-06, 05:57 AM	Basically I'm doing the same thing as Lord Gwydion. Using the SRD, I copy-and-paste text from OA (and Dragon 318, when I get it). The cleric and shaman have very similar wordings, for example. I'm doing it into a PDF, but for personal use only.
Sir Elton 09-05-06, 09:23 AM	You're finding that NOW? :uh-huh: Nah, I knew that a long time ago. But I never, once, did think that adults can come up with stupid excuses for their beloved Cerebral Cortexes not working. There is one person on these very boards which made up the lamest excuse for not learning something new: "I work 50 hours a week! I don't have time to learn something new!" A better excuse would be: "I have children and a wife to support, I really don't have the time to learn this." The first one: "Yeah, right. I know enough about neurology that the brain's ability to learn and gain understanding is a lot like the properties of water." The second one: "I understand. But why did you sign up for an online game if you have responsbilities such as a wife and children?" A lot of people, D&D players included, react to change. They want everything to be the same, but change does come. What you could do is flesh out an oriental culture close to your Western one, introduce a few enemies from the oriental culture, and then have the PCs captured and brought to the orient. See if the players would roleplay the situation.
Ranger REG 09-05-06, 08:34 PM	Nah, it is not so much fickle, as they are more Eurocentric, and that's what Dungeons & Dragons is to them. When you look at it, Oriental Adventures is better off as a standalone product. Only we few recognize and appreciate its attachment to the D&D rules. The D&D mainstream gamers don't give a nezumi's behind.
GreyLord 09-05-06, 09:34 PM	My problem is that the conversion part isn't too difficult overall with the conversion book, but I never got #318, and now I can't seem to get it. Hence the problemand why it would be great if they offered it for d/l somewhere or someplace, or made it available somehow.
Ranger REG 09-06-06, 02:29 AM	My problem is that the conversion part isn't too difficult overall with the conversion book, but I never got #318, and now I can't seem to get it. Hence the problemand why it would be great if they offered it for d/l somewhere or someplace, or made it available somehow. If this is part of making an SRD for WotC to review and approve, it's better not to include the update material from the Dragon magazine.
madmonk 09-06-06, 08:48 AM	Why not? It's not that great after all.
Ranger REG 09-07-06, 04:59 AM	Why not? It's not that great after all. They may not want to include it in the first place. It's not like everytime there is an errata correction, the SRD is immediately updated. Do not assume they'll accept anything outside of the printed book, nor presume you're doing them an extra favor.
Sir Elton 09-07-06, 09:38 AM	Nah, it is not so much fickle, as they are more Eurocentric, and that's what Dungeons & Dragons is to them. When you look at it, Oriental Adventures is better off as a standalone product. Only we few recognize and appreciate its attachment to the D&D rules. The D&D mainstream gamers don't give a nezumi's behind. Having a purely Eurocentric world isn't all that great. You need the metaphysics of orientalism to balance out the physical beliefs of Occidentialism. Although the Chinese and the Japanese probably laugh in our faces when we show them our Fantasy Asias. :rimshot:
Twiggly the Gnome 09-07-06, 05:50 PM	They may not want to include it in the first place. It's not like everytime there is an errata correction, the SRD is immediately updated. Do not assume they'll accept anything outside of the printed book, nor presume you're doing them an extra favor. Perhaps, but I don't see what purpose would be served by adding the 3.0 version of Oriental Adventures to the SRD. How would that drive sales of 3.5 Player's Handbooks?
Ranger REG 09-07-06, 10:58 PM	Having a purely Eurocentric world isn't all that great. You need the metaphysics of orientalism to balance out the physical beliefs of Occidentialism. Although the Chinese and the Japanese probably laugh in our faces when we show them our Fantasy Asias. :rimshot: Dude, you're preaching to the choir. Tell that to core-bred D&D fans. :smirk:
Sir Elton 09-08-06, 09:34 AM	Dude, you're preaching to the choir. Tell that to core-bred D&D fans. :smirk: Well, I could show them the Mysterious World articles I was viewing last night. What was a research project for the Amazons (and one that was heavy on the Feminist side) turned into a research project into the Indo-European peoples. I was looking at the Table of Nations to try and get an understanding of how the Amazons got so matriarchal in the first place. I found a theory to show that two conquering groups of Indo-Europeans split along an ideological axis. Indo-European Group A (Gomer) followed a physical model of thought and reason. While Indo-European Group B (Magog/Aryans) followed a metaphysical model of introspection and intuition. Indo-European Group A invaded and conquered Europe, while Indo-European Group B invaded and conquered Asia and India. Both came out of a common land, called the Caucasus in the Real World. Although I still don't know how the Matriarchy arose in the Mediterranean and along the Southern Black Sea, I found enough information to construct a Sword and Sorcery world based on the Table of Nations. :w00t:
Yue Ryong 09-08-06, 10:54 AM	I would love to see the SRD version of OA. hopefully, it'll be generically asian enough that you don't have to use it for Rokugan or something equally 'Fuedal Japan' type base. I want to play ancient China, dammit!
Azzy 09-08-06, 12:31 PM	Well, I could show them the Mysterious World articles I was viewing last night. What was a research project for the Amazons (and one that was heavy on the Feminist side) Not surprising, unfortunately. ...And by Amazons, I assume you mean the Sauromations, right? turned into a research project into the Indo-European peoples. A sordid affair, I assure you. ;) I was looking at the Table of Nations to try and get an understanding of how the Amazons got so matriarchal in the first place. Um, if I should be so bold, why do you expect to find an answer there? I found a theory to show that two conquering groups of Indo-Europeans split along an ideological axis. Indo-European Group A (Gomer) followed a physical model of thought and reason. While Indo-European Group B (Magog/Aryans) followed a metaphysical model of introspection and intuition. Indo-European Group A invaded and conquered Europe, while Indo-European Group B invaded and conquered Asia and India. I'd like a link to the site where you found that. Respectfully, from what little of the theory you've posted here, it seems like a bit of bunk. Even with the prevalency of Hellenic thought throughout the Ancient, "Western" world, I think that that's a red herring when judging the pre-Hellenic Indo-Europeans or non-Hellenic IE cultures concurrent to the the developing Hellenic culture. If there's going to be any trace of such an ideological split the evidence of it will be in the languages spoken by early post-split peoples (and the descendent of these earlier languages). Both came out of a common land, called the Caucasus in the Real World. Maybe. The land of origin of the Proto-Indo-Europeans is still a matter of uncertainty. Although I still don't know how the Matriarchy arose in the Mediterranean and along the Southern Black Sea, If you mean the Minoan culture, there's no definite proof that there was a matriachy. The art evidence suggests that the culture practised gender equality and may have been matrilineal. I found enough information to construct a Sword and Sorcery world based on the Table of Nations. Interesting.
Ranger REG 09-08-06, 06:44 PM	I would love to see the SRD version of OA. hopefully, it'll be generically asian enough that you don't have to use it for Rokugan or something equally 'Fuedal Japan' type base. I want to play ancient China, dammit! Well, all they need to do is remove the Rokugan elements for legal trademark and copyright reasons.
Ryltar Thamior 09-09-06, 06:05 AM	VIVA ANCIENT CHINA rather than Japan. Count me in on this petition. Too bad tey didn't do more than one hardcover... i mean, (very) pseudo-historical European settings get tons of stuff... although it is progressively moving WAY away from pseudo-historical European society...
Ranger REG 09-10-06, 04:29 AM	Perhaps, but I don't see what purpose would be served by adding the 3.0 version of Oriental Adventures to the SRD. How would that drive sales of 3.5 Player's Handbooks? It has nothing to do with the sales of PHB. Just a legal thing. Until they accept the rules update from Dragon magazine, which IMHO, is edited for space reason, don't second-guess them, unless you don't mind having long red lines on your own works.
Ranger REG 09-10-06, 04:35 AM	VIVA ANCIENT CHINA rather than Japan. Count me in on this petition. Too bad tey didn't do more than one hardcover... i mean, (very) pseudo-historical European settings get tons of stuff... although it is progressively moving WAY away from pseudo-historical European society... It's called the "Jean-Claude Van Damme" effect. Westerners now want to see guys like D'Artagnan (from The Musketeer film) to do wire-fu stunts, or Iolaus and Hercules from Hercules: The Legendary Journey to have martial arts prowess. Of course, the strongest evidence is the Last Samurai starring Tom Cruise ( :yuck: ). :devil: P.S. I'm more interested Korea than China.
Sir Elton 09-10-06, 12:33 PM	It's called the "Jean-Claude Van Damme" effect. Westerners now want to see guys like D'Artagnan (from The Musketeer film) to do wire-fu stunts, or Iolaus and Hercules from Hercules: The Legendary Journey to have martial arts prowess. Of course, the strongest evidence is the Last Samurai starring Tom Cruise ( :yuck: ). :devil: P.S. I'm more interested Korea than China. I don't think a movie like The Musketeer would be appropriate to have wire fu. However, it's perfectly okay for Hercules and Iolaus to have martial arts prowess. Or have people simply forgotten about Pankration. :devil: Something wrong with the Last Samurai, I thought it was entirely plausible for a Civil War veteran to go to Japan and have an eye opening experience.
Sir Elton 09-10-06, 12:34 PM	Not surprising, unfortunately. ...And by Amazons, I assume you mean the Sauromations, right? I think Historians are spelling it "Sarmatians" now. :)
Azzy 09-10-06, 03:41 PM	I think Historians are spelling it "Sarmatians" now. :) Sorta, not exactly. By Sauromations, I'm refering to the earliest period (600-400 BCE) of the Sarmatians peoples (prior to Early Sarmation phase). Here's a link to the Center for the Study of Eurasian Nomads (http://www.csen.org/csen.tofc/csen_tofc.html).
Twiggly the Gnome 09-10-06, 04:40 PM	It has nothing to do with the sales of PHB. Just a legal thing. Until they accept the rules update from Dragon magazine, which IMHO, is edited for space reason, don't second-guess them, unless you don't mind having long red lines on your own works. *shrug* Then any "help" anyone outside of WotC could give is a wasted effort. The removal of IP elements is just as much a matter of guess work as the specificics of the update to the mechanics. At this point, both will have to be done before it would be considered a candidate for the SRD.
Nobunaga Oda 09-10-06, 07:57 PM	Oh c´mon the Last Samurai sucked :/...And aslo that Geisha film. Serious, after you already watched some Kurosawa films the american ones get very sucky... ...And it is legal to just add the OA without the flavor text in the SRD? Or does this go against the d20 license?
Ranger REG 09-10-06, 09:07 PM	I don't think a movie like The Musketeer would be appropriate to have wire fu. However, it's perfectly okay for Hercules and Iolaus to have martial arts prowess. Or have people simply forgotten about Pankration. :devil: I can't believe that pankration is western wuxia. :P
Azzy 09-10-06, 09:18 PM	I can't believe that pankration is western wuxia. :P Eh, Greek myths and legends were pretty much wuxia anyway.
Sir Elton 09-10-06, 09:38 PM	Hercules changed the course of a river, bedded fifty women, wore women's clothing, threw a young man into the Aegean, wrastled with the giant Anteus, sailed with the Argonauts, held up the sky, freed Prometheus, wrastled with a lion, a mass of snakes, a bull, fought man-eating horses and dealt with the Stymphalian birds. And that is just a highlight of what Hercules did. Very wuxia. Especially bedding fifty women.
Ranger REG 09-11-06, 03:29 AM	Eh, Greek myths and legends were pretty much wuxia anyway. I thought it was contained to Sam Raimi's version. :blink: I mean if this lets out ... :eek:
Ranger REG 09-11-06, 03:34 AM	Hercules changed the course of a river, bedded fifty women, wore women's clothing, threw a young man into the Aegean, wrastled with the giant Anteus, sailed with the Argonauts, held up the sky, freed Prometheus, wrastled with a lion, a mass of snakes, a bull, fought man-eating horses and dealt with the Stymphalian birds. And that is just a highlight of what Hercules did. Very wuxia. Especially bedding fifty women. That's understandable for a half-god ... but his mortal buddy Iolaus? :uh-huh: (Methink Kevin Sorbo is too meek to bed 50 women, much less one.)
Azzy 09-11-06, 05:11 AM	I thought it was contained to Sam Raimi's version. :blink: Eh, that Raimi version was a lot less wuxia than the original.
Ryltar Thamior 09-11-06, 05:48 AM	Loyalty to one's adopted race colours my viewpoint... But China. I haven't read enuf about Korean history/mythology to be heavily interested... Over the last few decades, westerners have been over-exposed to Japanese culture, and due to economic & political factors, underexposed to Other examples of Asian culture, a reprehensible state of affairs. No wonder Wizards is now pushing OA as more of a Japanese thing. We could always *sub-petition* for other cultures to have more exposure...?
Sir Elton 09-11-06, 09:23 AM	the city of Ankor Wat, the Khmers, is very cool to look at. Everything was arranged in a pattern that mimics Draco. It's a beautiful city, good for hiding Yaun-ti in it's ruined state, or putting a good culture during its height. :)
Ryltar Thamior 09-12-06, 04:09 AM	Good call! That gives me an idea ... We really must have more *other* Oriental regions stuff done. Maybe right here on this board! Ideas, if nothign else.
Ranger REG 09-12-06, 05:12 AM	Loyalty to one's adopted race colours my viewpoint... But China. I haven't read enuf about Korean history/mythology to be heavily interested... Over the last few decades, westerners have been over-exposed to Japanese culture, and due to economic & political factors, underexposed to Other examples of Asian culture, a reprehensible state of affairs. No wonder Wizards is now pushing OA as more of a Japanese thing. I don't know. We did have resurgence of interest in China since Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon became popular, to be followed by Iron Monkey, Hero, House of Flying Dagger, as well as the immigration of Jackie Chan and Jet Li into Hollywood (bad mistake, IMHO, since American-established entertainment industries are known to bastardize imported entertainment). If anything, it brought me nostalgia for earlier Hong Kong Martial Arts films (though my childhood memories recall they're dubbed with many Texan voices) that includes younger versions of Jackie Chan and Sammo Hung, as well as Bruce Lee and his pretenders to the throne (Bruce Li, Dragon Lee, etc.).
Ryltar Thamior 09-13-06, 05:20 AM	That is so. I'm glad that a small resurgence has started... But consider : apart from the occasional temple drafted into use as a VC (or Green Beret in the case of Apocalypse Now) base or similar, what exposure do other Asian cultures have to a white audiance? To the DnD gamer, these cultures can provide quite a good deal of inspiration, and yet they are little-known...
Ranger REG 09-13-06, 05:12 PM	That is so. I'm glad that a small resurgence has started... But consider : apart from the occasional temple drafted into use as a VC (or Green Beret in the case of Apocalypse Now) base or similar, what exposure do other Asian cultures have to a white audiance? To a white audience? I honestly don't know, other than they're more comfortable with elements relating to their culture as we are with our own. To the DnD gamer, these cultures can provide quite a good deal of inspiration, and yet they are little-known... If the subject is a little known to you but have a curious interest in it, then you research it. Not to delve deeply into politics but It's more important that we do understand the other cultures in real life now, not compare them to our own and judge them dismissively. After all, and as strange as it may sound, D&D is one of the factors that makes me curious about world history and cultures. You may scoff at me, but I'm proud to say that that it was the game and not schooling that motivated my interest. :cool:
Ryltar Thamior 09-15-06, 04:35 AM	I'm not saying just me. Other gamers being mroe important... i mean, how many of htem will even have CONSIDERED dropping Oriental elements into their games? And i wouldn't scoff. that's good enough for me! If it weren't for wargaming, i wouldn't be the person I am, so i can't talk. Of course my way of understanding cultures is generally to blunder into them...
Ranger REG 09-15-06, 04:50 AM	Of course my way of understanding cultures is generally to blunder into them... As long you don't blunder on purpose, and you correct your faux pas immediately after the first time around.
Ryltar Thamior 09-15-06, 05:51 AM	I won't break the CoC by regaling you with storys of my various deliberate mistakes. But on the whole i do things not causing offence. Now we're probably boring the readers to death, with this irrelevant sidetrack, so we should probably continue via messages.
Fuzzy_Logic 09-22-06, 04:47 PM	This is a very good idea. I'm in.
elondir 09-22-06, 04:57 PM	I like the idea. I have a rather Eberronesque motto of "if it has been published (in any edition of the rules, including D20 Future) it's gonna get thrown into my game world."
Ryltar Thamior 09-23-06, 05:53 PM	.. EVERYTHING?! How do you keep it sane?!
Ranger REG 09-23-06, 10:37 PM	I like the idea. I have a rather Eberronesque motto of "if it has been published (in any edition of the rules, including D20 Future) it's gonna get thrown into my game world." :bored: Funny, that's a Realms-esque motto too. :P
elondir 10-19-06, 02:49 PM	.. EVERYTHING?! How do you keep it sane?! Not sure if you're asking me or someone else, but, if you are asking me, well here's my answer: Sanity? It's more of a gonzo mishmash of cultures, magic, technology, and philosophy, feuled by several serious time travel accidents. Picture what would happen if every culture, from every time period or subgenre of fantasy and sci-fi, suddenly got thrown together and mixed vigorously before time corrected its flow, leaving things mixed up. Of course space would get mixed up and weakened too. So some areas are like Limbo and others aren't.
yamiwarlock 10-22-06, 02:24 PM	Personally I don't think they need a campaign setting. Anyone who wants to run There is too much material needed (samurai, caste system, ninjas, monks, new spell systems, etc...) for any reasonably sized book to contain enough information to have a playable campaign setting. Basically you'd have to release an OA "player's handbook". And it could just be me, but many of the classes wizards released were...very bad in the original OA. Yakuza...a PrC that is 10 levels long without a 10th level ability? Anyways, the class that gets it in the end the hardest is easily the Wu-Jen. It has its OA spells and upgrades in the Dragon Magazine. It also gets a significant upgrade in Complete Arcane. Zoom ahead 3 years...and it gets Complete Mage as well. What else does it get between those two books? A handful of spells in Weapons of Legacy, and 1-2 spells in Magic of Rokugan. Whereas the Samurai can use any combat oriented feat released from then until now. The shugenja may seem a bit...underused...but truth be told once you get your GM to accept some AEG stuff, the Shugenja has new spells in seemingly every OA book ever produced by them. Anyways, if they do write a new OA, it needs the courtier class.
Ranger REG 10-24-06, 03:09 AM	Personally I don't think they need a campaign setting. Anyone who wants to run There is too much material needed (samurai, caste system, ninjas, monks, new spell systems, etc...) for any reasonably sized book to contain enough information to have a playable campaign setting. If anything, the campaign setting product would be separate from OA product, but OA -- much like PHB used Greyhawk -- would use elements from a campaign setting.
Phoenix112390 10-31-06, 09:12 AM	I would love for WotC to put the things from OA onto SRD. When I cant remember something, thats where i usually go. Plus i dont have the money to go and buy OA. Whenever you guys are going to petition, you can count on me.:bounce: P.S. Im trying to put together an asian-themed campaign now, but dont have the stuff.
RavinRay 10-31-06, 07:47 PM	After putting the shugenja, wu jen, and samurai in Complete Divine, Complete Arcane, and Complete Warrior (nerfed?), respectively, would Wizards really want to? At least the shaman's not been reprinted aside from Dragon 318.
narukagami 10-31-06, 08:22 PM	After putting the shugenja, wu jen, and samurai in Complete Divine, Complete Arcane, and Complete Warrior :tantrum: The complete series classes ARE NOT UPDATES. They are variants. The CW samurai has been confirmed in an interview with the writers to be a completely different and separate class and not an update.
Azzy 10-31-06, 10:08 PM	:tantrum: The complete series classes ARE NOT UPDATES. They are variants. The CW samurai has been confirmed in an interview with the writers to be a completely different and separate class and not an update. The shugenja and wu jen are 3.5 versions of the OA classes. Their biggest divergence from their origins in OA is their spell lists (some OA spells are not updated, thus missing, and some new spells have been added, etc.). The samurai, indeed, is an entirely different class with the same name.
RavinRay 11-01-06, 03:22 AM	I haven't taken the time to read through the Complete versions with a fine-toothed comb, except to note that the shugenja's school spells are now called order spells. Nonetheless, there is a nod to OA there in the write-up, and even some of the art came straight from OA.
Janusunaj 11-06-06, 09:28 PM	I"m with you.
Ranger REG 11-07-06, 02:07 AM	:tantrum: The complete series classes ARE NOT UPDATES. They are variants. The CW samurai has been confirmed in an interview with the writers to be a completely different and separate class and not an update. Not according to Tempest Stormwind. :smirk:
THETUNNELRAT 11-07-06, 03:05 AM	Rock on I was jest saying that to my DM cus I cant find the book.:D
Qube 11-07-06, 04:21 AM	count me in as well, but i have a remark: - Eburon setting is NOT in the SRD (with races like the shifter, warforged, and classes like the artificier) - Faerun setting is NOT in the SRD why would OA be?
heretic888 11-07-06, 08:46 AM	Not according to Tempest Stormwind. :smirk: Hehehe. I saw that thread, too. :P
narukagami 11-07-06, 12:40 PM	count me in as well, but i have a remark: - Eburon setting is NOT in the SRD (with races like the shifter, warforged, and classes like the artificier) - Faerun setting is NOT in the SRD why would OA be? Because Eberron and Faerun are campaign settings. OA is not a campaign setting in itself.
narukagami 11-07-06, 01:41 PM	Not according to Tempest Stormwind. :smirk: Too bad for him the writers said so themselves the samurai wasn't an update. I personally refuse accept the CD Shugenja as an update. The Wu Jen I actually didn't have a problem with, because I wasn't a fan of the OA one anyway.
Grizzled Gryphon 01-22-07, 06:48 PM	I, too, will happily endorse this idea. I am all for it.
Enialis_Gryphon 01-22-07, 06:51 PM	I will go along with what my grand pa above did, and also back this. It would be nice to see OA in the SRD.
Grizzled Gryphon 01-22-07, 06:53 PM	Grandpa? GRANDPA!?!?!?! Why, you little...!! I will leave the rest out, to save your young ears, grandson.
The_Shaman 01-22-07, 07:43 PM	I wish it were included in the SRD, really. I like OA, particularly the mechanics. However, some more material on non-rokugani OA settings would also be very nice... please?
Hochiu 01-23-07, 01:13 AM	Unfortunately, Wizards is lazy and doesn't want to work on their OA SRD or something. :mad:
spyone 01-23-07, 03:59 PM	What, precisely, would folks like to see added? First off, the Rokugan stuff probably isn't going in for a practical reason: while AEG made most of it Open Content in various books of their own, and even grants a Limited License to use the feat names and such even when they include Product Identity, I doubt WotC is going to put anything in their SRD what isn't copyrighted by them. As for the rest, ... Taint and Honor are in the SRD already. So, are we asking for the races and classes? The monsters? The text on how to run a campaign? Don't get me wrong: I'm in favor of Open Content, and of SRDs. I think they're great, for most of the reasons listed above (gives me a good look before I buy, eases other developers expanding upon the material, etc.). I'm just not sure they haven't basicly done what you're asking for here. We're asking for. Count me in.
Azzy 01-23-07, 06:47 PM	What, precisely, would folks like to see added? So, are we asking for the races and classes? The monsters? The text on how to run a campaign? Races, classes, skills, feats, spells, prestige classes, equipment, magic items, monsters, etc.--y'know all the mechanical goodiness in OA.
Netherek 01-23-07, 09:43 PM	Indeed, let's get a nice book. With all the silly completes that keep cropping up that's the least they could do.
spyone 01-24-07, 11:08 AM	Well, as I said, I think a big obstacle to a WotC SRD of that stuff is how much of it may be copyrighted by someone other than WotC. I really doubt you'll ever see Open Content from anyone but WotC in a WotC SRD. But I could be wrong. But some of that stuff is unique to OA, and I'd like very much like to have that stuff out there in SRD form.
Azzy 01-24-07, 12:21 PM	Well, as I said, I think a big obstacle to a WotC SRD of that stuff is how much of it may be copyrighted by someone other than WotC. That should be about nil. The only thing that would go into the SRD is the game mechanics, very little of which is Rokugan-specific (like certain monsters). Of course, such things like the nezumi and shadowlands oni are about as likely to make it into the SRD as the Illithid and Yuan-Ti, but I think that's a sacrifice everyone's willing to make. I really doubt you'll ever see Open Content from anyone but WotC in a WotC SRD. But I could be wrong. Everything in OA is WotC's. Rokugan got sold off to AEG, but as I said above--very little little of the mechanics presented in OA are overly intertwined with the Rokugan IP. Heck, even the Taint mechanics made it into the SRD via Unearthed Arcana. But some of that stuff is unique to OA, and I'd like very much like to have that stuff out there in SRD form. And it would be great for 3rd-party game developers to have those as potential tools to use in creating their own D20 supplements. :)
Hochiu 01-25-07, 10:49 AM	Aye. The instant the OA material gets put to the SRD, you'll find a plethora of 3rd party designers using those rules and adapting them to increase the amount of Asian themed games available to the consumer. That and more homebrew designers who can't get a hold of (or feel intimidated by the Rokugan material) the OA book will use them without having to rely on crappy Complete Warrior samurai classes.
The_Shaman 01-25-07, 06:12 PM	I think at least some of the classes, spells and feats could have made it in imo. The monk styles and fighting styles have been present in some form in many supplements, and some of the OA classes are no worse in any way than the "core" ones.
Hochiu 01-25-07, 08:29 PM	Well, considering there hasn't been what? The last thing I have added to the SRD I use was the Unearthed Arcana material? When was the last time we had errata put out? Someone's slackin'.
Gothenem 01-25-07, 09:19 PM	Here, here! Lets get OA in the SRD!!
Hochiu 01-26-07, 01:33 AM	If someone can get me a freakin' phone number, I'll call Wizards up myself tomorrow and ask them what I have to do to get OA material released to the SRD.
Ventifax 01-27-07, 01:18 AM	Since it's been so long, I say do it. I guess one of us could get a d20 license & just put out our own Sino-centric campaign setting.
Hochiu 01-27-07, 01:55 AM	Or we could homebrew one and just put it up on the internet ourselves (Why China?) and advertise it as a free site with the rules we used for it. :3
Ventifax 01-27-07, 02:13 AM	Oh, as much as I personally love Japanese myth (ooh, obake!) I just feel it's oversaturated. A lot of the warring-states-era fans are into L5R anyway. But the whole Chinese imperial world, including their near abroad, from Cochin China & Kampuchea in the south to Outer Mongolia in the north, & from Taiwan & Korea in the east to Tibet in the west, is a worthy project, as vast as Khorvaire or even Faerun.
Hochiu 01-27-07, 02:26 AM	That's always been a problem with any form of "Oriental Adventures" source book we've tried to agree upon here. Do you include Chinese influence or Japanese? Korean, Indian, Cambodian, Vietnamese, Thailand, Polynesian, or other? I think its because standard D&D is more or so written into our cultural heritage as (ostensibly) heavily influenced by traditional Western Civilization. People just sort of accept a "Paladin" class or a "Druid" class, but when you get to trying to write about a "Ninja" or any other form of cultural identity you run into a huge problem about what to include or not. The term "Oriental" is really too encompassing, and its too difficult to write a single book about the entirety of the Orient or any greater Asian group. The standard PHB is greatly influenced by more of a Northern/Western European slant than anything else, while Southern and Eastern Europe are pretty much pushed to the side. I wonder how people would take it if the PHB was called "Occidental Adventures"...hmm.. But regardless. I'm going on a rant, and I'm sorry. I think it could be solved with a revision to the OA book (rewrite), that includes core-generic classes, and then class breakdowns based on a certain number of cultures and such, representing more flavor from them. So you'd have a Japanese section with their samurai, ninja, what have you, and a Chinese, Korean (etc) section with their own cultural specific classes as well. But whatever.
Ranger REG 01-28-07, 01:09 AM	That's always been a problem with any form of "Oriental Adventures" source book we've tried to agree upon here. Do you include Chinese influence or Japanese? Korean, Indian, Cambodian, Vietnamese, Thailand, Polynesian, or other? Start with one, then cover the rest in supplements. If you want generics, then we go back to the core rules. Kara-Tur would have been a perfect vehicle setting to introduce clones of real-life cultures.
spyone 01-29-07, 11:32 AM	I just had a look at a d20 book on Three Kingdoms era China from Avalanche Press (it was like $3 for the PDF at drivethrurpg, though that sale might be ending). Anyway, it seemed pretty good. Had a few new classes, plus some good ideas on how existing (core) classes would fit into the setting. It's probably not exactly what any of us want in a China setting, but it's a start. I have, in fact, been generally pleased with my purchases from Avalanche Press. They are not great books, but they are also not very expensive, and I always feel my money was well spent (even when it was $16 or $20 for a print book).
Sudnji_cas 02-24-07, 11:35 PM	If we're putting OA in SRD I'll sign up that petition.
GEEKAZOID 02-25-07, 03:54 PM	That's always been a problem with any form of "Oriental Adventures" source book we've tried to agree upon here. Do you include Chinese influence or Japanese? Korean, Indian, Cambodian, Vietnamese, Thailand, Polynesian, or other?Why not ALL of them? It is fantasy after all.
spyone 02-25-07, 04:04 PM	Why not ALL of them? It is fantasy after all. Because you have a pre-determined page count, so the more different cultures you choose to include, the fewer pages each gets. That's the sad but true part of the RPG business: it's a business. How many pages are going to be in the book is based on projections of how many copies it will sell at various price-points, not on how much information has to be crammed into it.
GEEKAZOID 02-25-07, 06:20 PM	Because you have a pre-determined page count, so the more different cultures you choose to include, the fewer pages each gets.Being fantasy, you would take the most compelling elements of each culture and create a composite culture. Don't try to do everything in one book.
Ranger REG 02-26-07, 02:36 AM	I guess one of us could get a d20 license & just put out our own Sino-centric campaign setting. You don't need to apply to get a d20 System Trademark License for publishing your own setting. :bored:
Ranger REG 02-26-07, 02:41 AM	Being fantasy, you would take the most compelling elements of each culture and create a composite culture. Don't try to do everything in one book. Yeah, that's what happen to d20 Future. Tried to fit everything futuristic in just under 300 pages and keeping the supplemental price to $35 (never equal the core rulebook price of $40). But, hey, if you can find folks willing to shell a minimum of $75 for "Everything's Asian" in just one 700-page book, more power to you. Personally, a 700-page hardback is what I need to hit someone's head when they mispell "samurai." You know who you are. :evillaugh
Ventilatory_Threshold 02-27-07, 03:07 PM	Did I sign this yet? If I did: Take that, WizOs! That's what you get for banning me!
Ogrelee 03-02-07, 02:46 PM	I support this movement, as well. I think releasing the Oa mechanics might encourage more third party material for OA, and that would mean the possibility of more material from Wizards. Why haven't we gotten a mm for the Orient? HELLO, more non rokugan villains would be nice.
RavinRay 08-22-07, 08:34 AM	I suppose it's moot and academic now with 4E around the corner, but I only read this interview (http://www.oriental.hardpoints.de/wyatt.html) with James Wyatt now, and noted this reply: Anthony Valerra says, "It's on the list but there are at least a few products in front of it." I don't believe Wizards has any plans to do more OA products, but I'm sure that once it goes into the SRD there will be a lot of third-party material available. So OA was meant to be in the SRD all along…
Ranger REG 08-22-07, 11:57 PM	I suppose it's moot and academic now with 4E around the corner, but I only read this interview (http://www.oriental.hardpoints.de/wyatt.html) with James Wyatt now, and noted this reply: So OA was meant to be in the SRD all along… Yeah, AFTER 4e is out. Personally, the 3.0e OA material (sans Rokugan) should have been in the SRD when 3.5e is out.
Lazlo_Toth 08-24-07, 11:14 PM	Ok, I've had it. There is mechanicly nothing in OA that could not be put in the SRD without AEG permission except the Rokugan flavor text and maybe the clan specific classes in the back of the book and maybe also the shadowlands oni. Shugenja appear pretty much as-is in Complete Divine, so there is more than ample proof that WotC owns their d20 mechanics. Why does everyone assume AEG has any control over the class? And for Nezumi? Ever seen the Kamigawa line of magic cards? Something WotC owned that features them almost exactly as they are in Rokugan. Hell, taint rules? UA and Heros of Horror anyone? I could go on all day ranting and raving about how none of the OA mechanics have jack to do with AEG intellectual property (with a few exceptions), and how only the flavor does. So in short: Stop assuming AEG has any control over the mechanics of OA, they don't. Period. He's right. The Shugenja in the OA hardcover (or Complete Divine) belong to WOTC. Only the Rokugan setting and their setting properties belong to AEG. So mechanics in OA should be fine to transfer to an SRD... I don't think the word "shugenja" (as an example) could be listed as AEG intellectual property of AEG since it's a real Japanese word... The clans, the settings, individual names in the setting would be intellectual property... Also note that the Rokugan hardcover by AEG is a d20 STL book and has open content as spelled out in the back pages of that book... Much of it is OGC in terms of mechanics.... I am also in favor of making OA OGC as well. Given the drive for 4E, if it ever happened, it may not happen until the devs have time to make an SRD. As Anakin said, "I say patience.." :)
Ranger REG 08-25-07, 02:32 AM	He's right. The Shugenja in the OA hardcover (or Complete Divine) belong to WOTC. Only the Rokugan setting and their setting properties belong to AEG. So mechanics in OA should be fine to transfer to an SRD... I don't think the word "shugenja" (as an example) could be listed as AEG intellectual property of AEG since it's a real Japanese word... The clans, the settings, individual names in the setting would be intellectual property... Meh. Mechanically (without the Rokugan trappings) it can go into the SRD. But let's face it. 1e Shugenja is now 3e Shaman in OA. The 3e Shugenja was written specifically for Rokugan setting. They can put the Shugenja class in the SRD but in my eyes it is still Rokugan's Shugenja.
imakuni67 09-03-07, 12:28 PM	I'm up for this! At the very very least, publish the monk bonus feat variants and martial art styles into the SRD! Those rock.... Is there a petition to sign yet?
Ranger REG 09-04-07, 02:07 AM	Also note that the Rokugan hardcover by AEG is a d20 STL book and has open content as spelled out in the back pages of that book... Much of it is OGC in terms of mechanics.... Yeah, but as it stands now, until OA material is made OGC, I can't use Rokugan version of the Samurai class.
Raptorial 09-04-07, 08:40 AM	I support and sign this motion. It beats the heck out of me having to make my own kappas and other Japanese monsters any time I want to use them in OGL context.
RavinRay 09-04-07, 09:45 AM	I betcha someone at WotC already made OA into those SRD-style RTF documents and all that's needed is to upload them. And I do recall someone here saying he's done the same thing. I just did it myself with the shaman and shaman spells.
Ranger REG 09-05-07, 02:58 AM	I betcha someone at WotC already made OA into those SRD-style RTF documents and all that's needed is to upload them. They still need to be reviewed and approved by their lawyers for OGL compliance (and make sure they don't give too much away, since they no longer own L5R intellectual properties).
ito_david1 09-09-07, 02:42 PM	Forgive my ignorance, but what does "SRD" stand for? In fact is there a place in these forums where I could find out what all the acronyms mean?
narukagami 09-09-07, 02:59 PM	Forgive my ignorance, but what does "SRD" stand for? In fact is there a place in these forums where I could find out what all the acronyms mean? SRD stands for "System Reference Document", which is a document containing the barebones rules of d20 System games. There was a link to a thread that listed all the commonly used board acronyms, but I don't have it. Someone will probably come along with it for you shortly. :P