Possible "Oriental" support in Paizo's Pathfinder [Archive] - Wizards Community

Possible "Oriental" support in Paizo's Pathfinder [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
RavinRay
05-02-07, 09:13 PM Over at Paizo's message board a lot of discussion is on the forthcoming Pathfinder world. I casually mentioned in this post (http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/pathfinder/general/pollWhatPartOfPathfinderDoYouWantToKnowM oreAbout&page=3#187826) about the petition to open OA material and how neat it would be for the OA races to be supported if ever it were to happen. Well, a lot of posters expressed interest in running "Oriental"-themed adventures there, and the Paizo folk did not exclude the possibility. As to why I put "oriental" in quotation marks, I'm reposting Mike McArtor's post here:
The first thing we'll do, if we we do any kind of Far Eastern themed product, is eliminate the word "oriental" from it. A growing number of Asians find the term offensive, so we won't use it.
As an aside, someone there mentioned the kitsune as a possible PC race (as an alternative to the fox hengeyokai), and I had to google it to learn about it.
Ranger REG
05-03-07, 02:59 AM What if the Far East is actually on the West? Or North?

I know you can't say Asian because that's Earth-based, and many game setting may not take place on Earth. So, there has to be a better word along the same line as "medieval" (which is strongly associated to the European period culture of that time).

I would suggest "Sengoku," but that's too strongly associated to a one specific culture (Japan). How about a Chinese word for medieval, feudal, or warring era period?
Lord Gwydion
05-03-07, 09:42 AM I would suggest "Sengoku," but that's too strongly associated to a one specific culture (Japan). How about a Chinese word for medieval, feudal, or warring era period?

Actually, the word "sengoku" is taken from the Chinese term for the Warring States period (famous for producing Sun Tzu and Confucius). The Chinese characters are 戦国 and according to my Oxford Chinese Dictionary, should be pronounced "zhan guo" (falling intonation on zhan, rising on guo).

As for Paizo possibly producing some OA themed adventures, great! And if it gets OA in the SRD, well, better late than never. But since we're only 2-3 years away from the next edition and WotC is already (IMO anyway) scraping the bottom of the marketing barrel with their recent sourcebooks, I don't have any more hope of the SRD part. :raincloud
Ranger REG
05-04-07, 02:25 AM Actually, the word "sengoku" is taken from the Chinese term for the Warring States period (famous for producing Sun Tzu and Confucius). The Chinese characters are 戦国 and according to my Oxford Chinese Dictionary, should be pronounced "zhan guo" (falling intonation on zhan, rising on guo).
So, should it be sengoku or zhan guo? :uh-huh:

As for Paizo possibly producing some OA themed adventures, great! And if it gets OA in the SRD, well, better late than never. But since we're only 2-3 years away from the next edition and WotC is already (IMO anyway) scraping the bottom of the marketing barrel with their recent sourcebooks, I don't have any more hope of the SRD part. :raincloud
I'd rather they just make the adventures, so then the DM can swap to the more appropriate OA classes.
Lord Gwydion
05-04-07, 03:02 AM So, should it be sengoku or zhan guo? :uh-huh:

I don't have an answer for this one. I suppose if they want to play up the Japanese side, Sengoku (but then there's already the game with that name...) and if they want to play up the Chinese side, Zhan Guo.

Likely, they'd try to find some more appropriate term that is a bit more neutral with regards to real world aspects, but I can't think of anything better at the moment.

Just providing you with an answer to your question about the term for "warring states" in Chinese. :D

I'd rather they just make the adventures, so then the DM can swap to the more appropriate OA classes.

I've got no problem with doing this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12099067&postcount=50), but it would be nice to have that work done for me every now and then.
Ranger REG
05-05-07, 02:34 AM Likely, they'd try to find some more appropriate term that is a bit more neutral [and not offensive] with regards to real world aspects, but I can't think of anything better at the moment.
I can't think of any, which sucks for a filipino that is me. :nonono:

I'm going to leave it to the Chinese gamers since their ancestors are responsible for populating and influencing such unique cultures.
The Ubbergeek
05-05-07, 01:22 PM They should not yeld to pc-ness, since Oriental have nothing really offensive - it's just that it's based on the vew of us, they are at the far end of orient. Nothing offensive in it.
Ranger REG
05-06-07, 04:15 PM They should not yeld to pc-ness, since Oriental have nothing really offensive - it's just that it's based on the vew of us, they are at the far end of orient. Nothing offensive in it.
Not to some of our Asian friends. I know I should be offended but I'm not. I've heard worst things said about my race.

So, just find the one word ... probably a Chinese root word ... that would commonly depict our Asian cultures as much as "medieval" depict Europe, when it comes to RPG.
narukagami
05-06-07, 04:43 PM And then when you use a Chinese root word, the Japanese, Indians, Thai, and Koreans will be displeased at not using their language or say your lumping everyone with the Chinese. And vise-versa.

Not using "Asian" at all if you're not going to use "Oriental", unfortunatly, leaves you with almost no viable options that don't exclude or fully include.

And yet, what always gets me is no one has a problem with doing similar things to Europe.
Matthew_
05-06-07, 05:09 PM Indeed. I know Chinese and Japanese people who find the term 'Asian' insulting because of the vast number of cultures it encompasses. Personally, I have no more problem with the word Oriental than I do with Occidental, Western or European. Let alone Anglo-Saxon, White, Caucasian or whatever other word happens to be current in English terminology to describe X, Y and Z.
Azzy
05-06-07, 08:10 PM And then when you use a Chinese root word, the Japanese, Indians, Thai, and Koreans will be displeased at not using their language or say your lumping everyone with the Chinese. And vise-versa.

And why are these peoples lumped together anyway? If it was a matter of broad ethnicity, why are Indians in there (especially as opposed to Persians). BTW, does Indian necessarily include Dravidian? If it is broad ethnicity, are the Yupik included or do we narrow the field a bit?

Is it cultural? Because if so, some of these cultures have only the barest similarity. Is it Buddhism? If so, what about the fact that Theravada Buddhist owns a lot to Greek influence.... so can we put the Greeks and the Romans in there, too?

If not, is it just "those guys in the East?" If so, why is Oriental offensive? And why aren't the Russians included?

How about all the ethnic groups that originate in Asia that get marginalized by applying the term "Asian" to Chinese, Japanese, Indians, Thai, and Koreans? Or do they not count?

And why is "Oriental" considered offensive in the first place?
Azzy
05-06-07, 08:12 PM I know Chinese and Japanese people who find the term 'Asian' insulting because of the vast number of cultures it encompasses.

My friend, Mark, who is half-Korean, actually prefers the term "Oriental" and rolls his eyes about it being PC to say "Asian" instead.
narukagami
05-06-07, 08:29 PM And why are these peoples lumped together anyway? If it was a matter of broad ethnicity, why are Indians in there (especially as opposed to Persians). BTW, does Indian necessarily include Dravidian? If it is broad ethnicity, are the Yupik included or do we narrow the field a bit?

Is it cultural? Because if so, some of these cultures have only the barest similarity. Is it Buddhism? If so, what about the fact that Theravada Buddhist owns a lot to Greek influence.... so can we put the Greeks and the Romans in there, too?

If not, is it just "those guys in the East?" If so, why is Oriental offensive? And why aren't the Russians included?

How about all the ethnic groups that originate in Asia that get marginalized by applying the term "Asian" to Chinese, Japanese, Indians, Thai, and Koreans? Or do they not count?

And why is "Oriental" considered offensive in the first place? Because the PC crowed will not be happy until every term for every race ever is deemed offensive. Thats the best answer I can give you.
Azzy
05-06-07, 08:59 PM Because the PC crowed will not be happy until every term for every race ever is deemed offensive. Thats the best answer I can give you.

Then they'll move on to hair color--"brunette," "blonde," "ginger," etc. will be deemed offensive. :rolleyes:
narukagami
05-06-07, 09:12 PM Then they'll move on to hair color--"brunette," "blonde," "ginger," etc. will be deemed offensive. :rolleyes: Exactly.
madmonk
05-11-07, 12:07 PM Eastern Adventures? :rolleyes:
Anyway, they call us westerners and we don't care :P
Hochiu
05-11-07, 01:45 PM And I get offended when I get called "White". I'm slightly-pink, damnit.

Oriental is a specific term based on the direction a location happens to be situated at in regards to ones-self from a Western perspective. Its never been an ethnic or racial slur, it's always been a word denoting geographic meanings. It ONLY considered improper in the United States, might I add.

People who find offense in words that have no such meaning are what is contributing to the fall of society and the destruction of our values - when we have to consistently worry about what we say or else we'll be sued or brought up on charges of ethnic/racial discrimination.

If they're going to cry discrimination due to some sense of Geographic-centrism, Im going to start complaining about being called a Westerner. Its the same thing. Hypocritical little... *grumble grumble*.

I officially refuse to support Paizo now for joining the PC boat. Let them burn.
Ranger REG
05-13-07, 02:24 AM If they're going to cry discrimination due to some sense of Geographic-centrism, Im going to start complaining about being called a Westerner.
Why complain about something to be proud of? :uh-huh:
Azzy
05-13-07, 12:06 PM Why complain about something to be proud of? :uh-huh:

What's there to be proud of? Especially as opposed to being a "non-Westerner?" Is there something I'm missing?
narukagami
05-13-07, 12:08 PM I like how the terms are directional derived and completely Eurocentric. Always made me chuckle when you thought about them from the perspective of any other area of the world, especially the Americas.

But I digress, I think its safe to surmise that we've concluded that excluding terms "Oriental", "Eastern", and "Asian", leaves us with nothing thats not culture/country specific.
Azzy
05-13-07, 12:13 PM I officially refuse to support Paizo now for joining the PC boat. Let them burn.

Eh, don't hate the playa, hate the game.... Paizo is just trying to cover their own arses from the PC Crusaders (which, ironically, tend to be spearheaded by flaky, rich white people--and, California, I'm looking at you). It's a sad fact that the PC movement is more divisive than anything else (largely because it's more a false token provided by the political majority rather than sincere sensitivity).
Azzy
05-13-07, 12:21 PM I like how the terms are directional derived and completely Eurocentric. Always made me chuckle when you thought about them from the perspective of any other area of the world, especially the Americas.

Yeah, the "Far East" is actually the "West," while Europe is in the "East." :D

Then again, the same can be said about measuring Time Zones--a complete product of Eurocentricism, we determine or time based on how far away from the "Prime Meridian" we are.
Ranger REG
05-13-07, 05:33 PM What's there to be proud of? Especially as opposed to being a "non-Westerner?" Is there something I'm missing?
I find your above statement funny, is all. It's like, if they complaining about this, then I'm going to complain about how they called me "filipino." :uh-huh:
Azzy
05-13-07, 11:36 PM I find your above statement funny, is all. It's like, if they complaining about this, then I'm going to complain about how they called me "filipino." :uh-huh:

But that's the point.... Why is there any complaining about any non-pejorative term (like "oriental," for instance)? Why should one group be able to take pride in one vague term, while another shouldn't?

BTW, Filipino is a specific national origin, while "westerner" isn't--it's a extremely vague descriptor. Not really comparable. You, you're an Hawaiian resident previously, qualify as a "westerner" in terms of residence (and likely in terms of birth origin) even if you are Filipino in ancestral origin. But, if we really want to split hairs about ancestral origin--we're all African. :P
Hochiu
05-18-07, 04:37 PM But, if we really want to split hairs about ancestral origin--we're all African. :P

Depending on where and which paleo-anthropological theory you're subscribing to, yeah. There's evidence found in Georgia that partially disputes the universal "out of Africa" theory. Not to mention those theories that bleieve that H. sapiens sapiens and H. neandertalensis somehow crossbred and intermarried in certain cases.

Then again. The flying spaghetti monster could have just created us all with his noodly appendage!
Azzy
05-19-07, 12:59 AM Depending on where and which paleo-anthropological theory you're subscribing to, yeah. There's evidence found in Georgia that partially disputes the universal "out of Africa" theory. Not to mention those theories that bleieve that H. sapiens sapiens and H. neandertalensis somehow crossbred and intermarried in certain cases.

However, the mitochondrial DNA evidence certainly supports the single origin theory.

Then again. The flying spaghetti monster could have just created us all with his noodly appendage!

I can't argue that. ;)
Hochiu
05-19-07, 12:14 PM However, the mitochondrial DNA evidence certainly supports the single origin theory.

Well, mitochondrial DNA evidence supports something of a single origin theory. But there are also effects placed on such populations, such as the Toba catastrophy theore which is thought to have resulted in a severe population bottleneck - with anywhere from ten thousand to one thousand breeding pairs.

But I'm just splitting hairs. I try to stay abreast of all the relevent anthropological theories. :D
Azzy
05-19-07, 09:35 PM Well, mitochondrial DNA evidence supports something of a single origin theory. But there are also effects placed on such populations, such as the Toba catastrophy theore which is thought to have resulted in a severe population bottleneck - with anywhere from ten thousand to one thousand breeding pairs.

But I'm just splitting hairs. I try to stay abreast of all the relevent anthropological theories. :D

Yeah, it's a subject I geek-out on, too. :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RavinRay 05-02-07, 09:13 PM	Over at Paizo's message board a lot of discussion is on the forthcoming Pathfinder world. I casually mentioned in this post (http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/pathfinder/general/pollWhatPartOfPathfinderDoYouWantToKnowM oreAbout&page=3#187826) about the petition to open OA material and how neat it would be for the OA races to be supported if ever it were to happen. Well, a lot of posters expressed interest in running "Oriental"-themed adventures there, and the Paizo folk did not exclude the possibility. As to why I put "oriental" in quotation marks, I'm reposting Mike McArtor's post here: The first thing we'll do, if we we do any kind of Far Eastern themed product, is eliminate the word "oriental" from it. A growing number of Asians find the term offensive, so we won't use it. As an aside, someone there mentioned the kitsune as a possible PC race (as an alternative to the fox hengeyokai), and I had to google it to learn about it.
Ranger REG 05-03-07, 02:59 AM	What if the Far East is actually on the West? Or North? I know you can't say Asian because that's Earth-based, and many game setting may not take place on Earth. So, there has to be a better word along the same line as "medieval" (which is strongly associated to the European period culture of that time). I would suggest "Sengoku," but that's too strongly associated to a one specific culture (Japan). How about a Chinese word for medieval, feudal, or warring era period?
Lord Gwydion 05-03-07, 09:42 AM	I would suggest "Sengoku," but that's too strongly associated to a one specific culture (Japan). How about a Chinese word for medieval, feudal, or warring era period? Actually, the word "sengoku" is taken from the Chinese term for the Warring States period (famous for producing Sun Tzu and Confucius). The Chinese characters are 戦国 and according to my Oxford Chinese Dictionary, should be pronounced "zhan guo" (falling intonation on zhan, rising on guo). As for Paizo possibly producing some OA themed adventures, great! And if it gets OA in the SRD, well, better late than never. But since we're only 2-3 years away from the next edition and WotC is already (IMO anyway) scraping the bottom of the marketing barrel with their recent sourcebooks, I don't have any more hope of the SRD part. :raincloud
Ranger REG 05-04-07, 02:25 AM	Actually, the word "sengoku" is taken from the Chinese term for the Warring States period (famous for producing Sun Tzu and Confucius). The Chinese characters are 戦国 and according to my Oxford Chinese Dictionary, should be pronounced "zhan guo" (falling intonation on zhan, rising on guo). So, should it be sengoku or zhan guo? :uh-huh: As for Paizo possibly producing some OA themed adventures, great! And if it gets OA in the SRD, well, better late than never. But since we're only 2-3 years away from the next edition and WotC is already (IMO anyway) scraping the bottom of the marketing barrel with their recent sourcebooks, I don't have any more hope of the SRD part. :raincloud I'd rather they just make the adventures, so then the DM can swap to the more appropriate OA classes.
Lord Gwydion 05-04-07, 03:02 AM	So, should it be sengoku or zhan guo? :uh-huh: I don't have an answer for this one. I suppose if they want to play up the Japanese side, Sengoku (but then there's already the game with that name...) and if they want to play up the Chinese side, Zhan Guo. Likely, they'd try to find some more appropriate term that is a bit more neutral with regards to real world aspects, but I can't think of anything better at the moment. Just providing you with an answer to your question about the term for "warring states" in Chinese. :D I'd rather they just make the adventures, so then the DM can swap to the more appropriate OA classes. I've got no problem with doing this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12099067&postcount=50), but it would be nice to have that work done for me every now and then.
Ranger REG 05-05-07, 02:34 AM	Likely, they'd try to find some more appropriate term that is a bit more neutral [and not offensive] with regards to real world aspects, but I can't think of anything better at the moment. I can't think of any, which sucks for a filipino that is me. :nonono: I'm going to leave it to the Chinese gamers since their ancestors are responsible for populating and influencing such unique cultures.
The Ubbergeek 05-05-07, 01:22 PM	They should not yeld to pc-ness, since Oriental have nothing really offensive - it's just that it's based on the vew of us, they are at the far end of orient. Nothing offensive in it.
Ranger REG 05-06-07, 04:15 PM	They should not yeld to pc-ness, since Oriental have nothing really offensive - it's just that it's based on the vew of us, they are at the far end of orient. Nothing offensive in it. Not to some of our Asian friends. I know I should be offended but I'm not. I've heard worst things said about my race. So, just find the one word ... probably a Chinese root word ... that would commonly depict our Asian cultures as much as "medieval" depict Europe, when it comes to RPG.
narukagami 05-06-07, 04:43 PM	And then when you use a Chinese root word, the Japanese, Indians, Thai, and Koreans will be displeased at not using their language or say your lumping everyone with the Chinese. And vise-versa. Not using "Asian" at all if you're not going to use "Oriental", unfortunatly, leaves you with almost no viable options that don't exclude or fully include. And yet, what always gets me is no one has a problem with doing similar things to Europe.
Matthew_ 05-06-07, 05:09 PM	Indeed. I know Chinese and Japanese people who find the term 'Asian' insulting because of the vast number of cultures it encompasses. Personally, I have no more problem with the word Oriental than I do with Occidental, Western or European. Let alone Anglo-Saxon, White, Caucasian or whatever other word happens to be current in English terminology to describe X, Y and Z.
Azzy 05-06-07, 08:10 PM	And then when you use a Chinese root word, the Japanese, Indians, Thai, and Koreans will be displeased at not using their language or say your lumping everyone with the Chinese. And vise-versa. And why are these peoples lumped together anyway? If it was a matter of broad ethnicity, why are Indians in there (especially as opposed to Persians). BTW, does Indian necessarily include Dravidian? If it is broad ethnicity, are the Yupik included or do we narrow the field a bit? Is it cultural? Because if so, some of these cultures have only the barest similarity. Is it Buddhism? If so, what about the fact that Theravada Buddhist owns a lot to Greek influence.... so can we put the Greeks and the Romans in there, too? If not, is it just "those guys in the East?" If so, why is Oriental offensive? And why aren't the Russians included? How about all the ethnic groups that originate in Asia that get marginalized by applying the term "Asian" to Chinese, Japanese, Indians, Thai, and Koreans? Or do they not count? And why is "Oriental" considered offensive in the first place?
Azzy 05-06-07, 08:12 PM	I know Chinese and Japanese people who find the term 'Asian' insulting because of the vast number of cultures it encompasses. My friend, Mark, who is half-Korean, actually prefers the term "Oriental" and rolls his eyes about it being PC to say "Asian" instead.
narukagami 05-06-07, 08:29 PM	And why are these peoples lumped together anyway? If it was a matter of broad ethnicity, why are Indians in there (especially as opposed to Persians). BTW, does Indian necessarily include Dravidian? If it is broad ethnicity, are the Yupik included or do we narrow the field a bit? Is it cultural? Because if so, some of these cultures have only the barest similarity. Is it Buddhism? If so, what about the fact that Theravada Buddhist owns a lot to Greek influence.... so can we put the Greeks and the Romans in there, too? If not, is it just "those guys in the East?" If so, why is Oriental offensive? And why aren't the Russians included? How about all the ethnic groups that originate in Asia that get marginalized by applying the term "Asian" to Chinese, Japanese, Indians, Thai, and Koreans? Or do they not count? And why is "Oriental" considered offensive in the first place? Because the PC crowed will not be happy until every term for every race ever is deemed offensive. Thats the best answer I can give you.
Azzy 05-06-07, 08:59 PM	Because the PC crowed will not be happy until every term for every race ever is deemed offensive. Thats the best answer I can give you. Then they'll move on to hair color--"brunette," "blonde," "ginger," etc. will be deemed offensive. :rolleyes:
narukagami 05-06-07, 09:12 PM	Then they'll move on to hair color--"brunette," "blonde," "ginger," etc. will be deemed offensive. :rolleyes: Exactly.
madmonk 05-11-07, 12:07 PM	Eastern Adventures? :rolleyes: Anyway, they call us westerners and we don't care :P
Hochiu 05-11-07, 01:45 PM	And I get offended when I get called "White". I'm slightly-pink, damnit. Oriental is a specific term based on the direction a location happens to be situated at in regards to ones-self from a Western perspective. Its never been an ethnic or racial slur, it's always been a word denoting geographic meanings. It ONLY considered improper in the United States, might I add. People who find offense in words that have no such meaning are what is contributing to the fall of society and the destruction of our values - when we have to consistently worry about what we say or else we'll be sued or brought up on charges of ethnic/racial discrimination. If they're going to cry discrimination due to some sense of Geographic-centrism, Im going to start complaining about being called a Westerner. Its the same thing. Hypocritical little... grumble grumble. I officially refuse to support Paizo now for joining the PC boat. Let them burn.
Ranger REG 05-13-07, 02:24 AM	If they're going to cry discrimination due to some sense of Geographic-centrism, Im going to start complaining about being called a Westerner. Why complain about something to be proud of? :uh-huh:
Azzy 05-13-07, 12:06 PM	Why complain about something to be proud of? :uh-huh: What's there to be proud of? Especially as opposed to being a "non-Westerner?" Is there something I'm missing?
narukagami 05-13-07, 12:08 PM	I like how the terms are directional derived and completely Eurocentric. Always made me chuckle when you thought about them from the perspective of any other area of the world, especially the Americas. But I digress, I think its safe to surmise that we've concluded that excluding terms "Oriental", "Eastern", and "Asian", leaves us with nothing thats not culture/country specific.
Azzy 05-13-07, 12:13 PM	I officially refuse to support Paizo now for joining the PC boat. Let them burn. Eh, don't hate the playa, hate the game.... Paizo is just trying to cover their own arses from the PC Crusaders (which, ironically, tend to be spearheaded by flaky, rich white people--and, California, I'm looking at you). It's a sad fact that the PC movement is more divisive than anything else (largely because it's more a false token provided by the political majority rather than sincere sensitivity).
Azzy 05-13-07, 12:21 PM	I like how the terms are directional derived and completely Eurocentric. Always made me chuckle when you thought about them from the perspective of any other area of the world, especially the Americas. Yeah, the "Far East" is actually the "West," while Europe is in the "East." :D Then again, the same can be said about measuring Time Zones--a complete product of Eurocentricism, we determine or time based on how far away from the "Prime Meridian" we are.
Ranger REG 05-13-07, 05:33 PM	What's there to be proud of? Especially as opposed to being a "non-Westerner?" Is there something I'm missing? I find your above statement funny, is all. It's like, if they complaining about this, then I'm going to complain about how they called me "filipino." :uh-huh:
Azzy 05-13-07, 11:36 PM	I find your above statement funny, is all. It's like, if they complaining about this, then I'm going to complain about how they called me "filipino." :uh-huh: But that's the point.... Why is there any complaining about any non-pejorative term (like "oriental," for instance)? Why should one group be able to take pride in one vague term, while another shouldn't? BTW, Filipino is a specific national origin, while "westerner" isn't--it's a extremely vague descriptor. Not really comparable. You, you're an Hawaiian resident previously, qualify as a "westerner" in terms of residence (and likely in terms of birth origin) even if you are Filipino in ancestral origin. But, if we really want to split hairs about ancestral origin--we're all African. :P
Hochiu 05-18-07, 04:37 PM	But, if we really want to split hairs about ancestral origin--we're all African. :P Depending on where and which paleo-anthropological theory you're subscribing to, yeah. There's evidence found in Georgia that partially disputes the universal "out of Africa" theory. Not to mention those theories that bleieve that H. sapiens sapiens and H. neandertalensis somehow crossbred and intermarried in certain cases. Then again. The flying spaghetti monster could have just created us all with his noodly appendage!
Azzy 05-19-07, 12:59 AM	Depending on where and which paleo-anthropological theory you're subscribing to, yeah. There's evidence found in Georgia that partially disputes the universal "out of Africa" theory. Not to mention those theories that bleieve that H. sapiens sapiens and H. neandertalensis somehow crossbred and intermarried in certain cases. However, the mitochondrial DNA evidence certainly supports the single origin theory. Then again. The flying spaghetti monster could have just created us all with his noodly appendage! I can't argue that. ;)
Hochiu 05-19-07, 12:14 PM	However, the mitochondrial DNA evidence certainly supports the single origin theory. Well, mitochondrial DNA evidence supports something of a single origin theory. But there are also effects placed on such populations, such as the Toba catastrophy theore which is thought to have resulted in a severe population bottleneck - with anywhere from ten thousand to one thousand breeding pairs. But I'm just splitting hairs. I try to stay abreast of all the relevent anthropological theories. :D
Azzy 05-19-07, 09:35 PM	Well, mitochondrial DNA evidence supports something of a single origin theory. But there are also effects placed on such populations, such as the Toba catastrophy theore which is thought to have resulted in a severe population bottleneck - with anywhere from ten thousand to one thousand breeding pairs. But I'm just splitting hairs. I try to stay abreast of all the relevent anthropological theories. :D Yeah, it's a subject I geek-out on, too. :)