Shugenja in OA vs Complete Divine [Archive] - Wizards Community

Shugenja in OA vs Complete Divine [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
marius4
07-31-07, 09:28 PM There's an interesting thread titled "Samurai - Oriental adventures vs. complete warrior" and I was wondering if there is a similar one regarding the renditions of the Shugenja class.

If not, does anyone have any comments on them? How much difference is there?
Azzy
08-01-07, 09:33 AM There's an interesting thread titled "Samurai - Oriental adventures vs. complete warrior" and I was wondering if there is a similar one regarding the renditions of the Shugenja class.

If not, does anyone have any comments on them? How much difference is there?

The OA Samurai and the CW Samurai are entirely different classes. No true with the OA Shugenja and the CD Shugenja. The main differences are that the CD Shugenja adds in the ability to trade out spells known in the same way as the sorcerer, the spell list is slightly different, and the Shugenja "Schools" are now called "orders" and renamed to something non-Rokugani.

Essentially, the CD Shugenga is a 3.5 update, mechanically, of the existing OA class with the Rokugan-specific crap changed to something more generic.
JaniceWilson
08-07-07, 03:43 PM As Azzy said, the classes aren't different enough to warrant such a discussion.
Ranger REG
08-08-07, 02:37 AM Essentially, the CD Shugenga is a 3.5 update, mechanically, of the existing OA class with the Rokugan-specific crap changed to something more generic.
But isn't the CD Shugenja still based on/modified from/derived from the OA Shugenja, which is Rokugan-compatible as James Wyatt have intended? It's the reason why he also include the Shaman class in the new OA, for those who do not wish to run the Rokugan setting but some other asian-centric setting.

I mean, if the CD Shugenja is based on the original OA class (designed by David "Zeb" Cook) then I might allow it.
Azzy
08-09-07, 06:51 AM But isn't the CD Shugenja still based on/modified from/derived from the OA Shugenja, which is Rokugan-compatible as James Wyatt have intended? It's the reason why he also include the Shaman class in the new OA, for those who do not wish to run the Rokugan setting but some other asian-centric setting.

I mean, if the CD Shugenja is based on the original OA class (designed by David "Zeb" Cook) then I might allow it.

No, CD Shugenja is just an update of the Rokugan Shugenja (in 3.0 OA). The closest thing we have the old 1e OA (misspelled) Shukenja is 3.0 OA's Shaman.
Steely_Dan
08-09-07, 11:09 AM The closest thing we have the old 1e OA (misspelled) Shukenja is 3.0 OA's Shaman.

Yeah, and don't we call them a Dang Ki in Shou Lung?
Azzy
08-09-07, 01:35 PM Yeah, and don't we call them a Dang Ki in Shou Lung?

Don't make me break out my old Kara Tur boxed set... ...too late.... Yes. :)
Hochiu
08-10-07, 11:32 AM No, CD Shugenja is just an update of the Rokugan Shugenja (in 3.0 OA). The closest thing we have the old 1e OA (misspelled) Shukenja is 3.0 OA's Shaman.

And unfortunately, the Shaman isn't too well thought out of a class. It's good in theory, but the execution leaves a lot to be desired, and it suffers from a bit of the whole "monk" syndrome, where there's nothing outside the class able to compliment it easily.
Steely_Dan
08-10-07, 11:37 AM And unfortunately, the Shaman isn't too well thought out of a class. It's good in theory, but the execution leaves a lot to be desired, and it suffers from a bit of the whole "monk" syndrome, where there's nothing outside the class able to compliment it easily.

True, but the 3.5 update helped it…marginally.
Razz
08-10-07, 11:59 AM I think the question is what's the difference between the OA Shaman and the CD Spirit Shaman? Both deal with spirits, both can obviously fit into an OA setting. Shamans have martial arts and turn undead, Spirit Shamans don't. But both of them focus on "spirits" in similar ways so how would someone tell another what the difference between the two are?

And the Spirit Shaman has a better spell list than the Shaman. It's hard to tell what's a good Shaman spell and what's not good to add to their spell list, but the Spirit Shaman says simply to use the Druid spell list.
Ranger REG
08-10-07, 07:41 PM Yeah, and don't we call them a Dang Ki in Shou Lung?
I really need a vacation.

I'm seroiusly considering making a character named "Dang Ki Shen," the singing shaman.
Sleepwalker13666
08-12-07, 08:13 PM I really need a vacation.

I'm seroiusly considering making a character named "Dang Ki Shen," the singing shaman.

I once had a samurai name Mitso, the Bushi.

----------------------------------------------------------
(which was meant to be a bastardization of Mitsubishi in case anyone doesn't get it.)
Azzy
08-12-07, 10:01 PM I really need a vacation.

I'm seroiusly considering making a character named "Dang Ki Shen," the singing shaman.

Bless you.
Azzy
08-12-07, 10:06 PM I once had a samurai name Mitso, the Bushi.

----------------------------------------------------------
(which was meant to be a bastardization of Mitsubishi in case anyone doesn't get it.)

You get zero points for that.... But at least they're A6M Zero points.
Hochiu
08-13-07, 01:18 AM You get zero points for that.... But at least they're A6M Zero points.

I actually cannot ride in a Mitsubishi car for that reason.
Azzy
08-13-07, 07:03 AM I actually cannot ride in a Mitsubishi car for that reason.

So, how do you feel about Volkswagens or Porches? :D
Hochiu
08-13-07, 09:45 AM So, how do you feel about Volkswagens or Porches? :D

XD. This sounds dumb, but I don't think Volkswagen or Porsche built actual military vehicles like Mitsubishi did with the Zero. I mean, Volkswagen had the Kübelwagen and the Schwimmwagen, more support-oriented craft, like the Willie's Jeep, and I can't find what Porsche had.

It's just one of my silly little quirks. I have too much history in me to be healthy.

Though I can easily see someone not riding in a German car if they were from, say...all of Europe. :P But most normal people don't care. Heh.
Azzy
08-13-07, 07:15 PM XD. This sounds dumb, but I don't think Volkswagen or Porsche built actual military vehicles like Mitsubishi did with the Zero. I mean, Volkswagen had the Kübelwagen and the Schwimmwagen, more support-oriented craft, like the Willie's Jeep, and I can't find what Porsche had.

Ferdinand Porsche (who designed the Volkswagen, and later founded Porsche AG) used forced labor at Volkswagen factories during WW2 where slaves were literally worked to death.

It's just one of my silly little quirks. I have too much history in me to be healthy.

Oh, I understand. Sorry to add a little more.

Though I can easily see someone not riding in a German car if they were from, say...all of Europe. :P But most normal people don't care. Heh.

For me, I can separate the amoral and reprehensible actions of Ferdinand Porsche from the car companies (I like Beetles), but it's something that I choose to Not Forget.
Sleepwalker13666
08-13-07, 07:36 PM For me, I can separate the amoral and reprehensible actions of Ferdinand Porsche from the car companies (I like Beetles), but it's something that I choose to Not Forget.

Not to many people know that those where designed by A.H.
Hochiu
08-13-07, 08:32 PM For me, I can separate the amoral and reprehensible actions of Ferdinand Porsche from the car companies (I like Beetles), but it's something that I choose to Not Forget.

I tend to not like Porsche cars on principle, though, so its a moot issue there. That, and no one I know has one. Mitsubishi Gallants on the other hand...bleh.
Ranger REG
08-18-07, 03:19 AM So, how do you feel about Volkswagens or Porches? :D
:thinks:

There's no "V" sound in the Japanese language.
Count Arioch the 28th
08-26-07, 08:32 AM Ferdinand Porsche (who designed the Volkswagen, and later founded Porsche AG) used forced labor at Volkswagen factories during WW2 where slaves were literally worked to death.

Got a source for that?

I'm not automatically disbeleiving you, I just want some backup before I boycott those companies along with Mitsubishi.
Azzy
08-27-07, 02:13 PM Got a source for that?

Here (http://mondediplo.com/1998/01/11volkswag), here (http://www.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Companies/CompanyDetails.aspx?hhname=volkswagencom&cbRecursionCnt=1&cbsid=3730d59fddfc4119ba375ff27e594e82-241539057-VG-4&ns_siteid=ns_us_g_Ferdinand_Porsche_Vol_ ), and here (http://books.google.com/books?id=fHYh1QxFnFwC&pg=PA282&lpg=PA282&dq=ferdinand+porsche+volkswagen+forced+l abor&source=web&ots=Q6mo4_Qmsd&sig=ABDahb96BkDLo2qXX0oHTUfRHfA) for starters.

Also, see: Beyond Expectation: "The Volkswagen Story" (http://www.amazon.com/Volkswagen-story-K-B-Hopfinger/dp/0854291091/ref=sr_1_1/104-1093646-6171137?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1188239249&sr=8-1) K.B. Hopfinger. Third Edition c. 1956, G.T. Foulis & Co., Ltd. (London)

I'm not automatically disbeleiving you, I just want some backup before I boycott those companies along with Mitsubishi.

Personally, I wouldn't boycott these companies--they are no longer in the hands of those that were responsible for these acts. It's all in the past.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
marius4 07-31-07, 09:28 PM	There's an interesting thread titled "Samurai - Oriental adventures vs. complete warrior" and I was wondering if there is a similar one regarding the renditions of the Shugenja class. If not, does anyone have any comments on them? How much difference is there?
Azzy 08-01-07, 09:33 AM	There's an interesting thread titled "Samurai - Oriental adventures vs. complete warrior" and I was wondering if there is a similar one regarding the renditions of the Shugenja class. If not, does anyone have any comments on them? How much difference is there? The OA Samurai and the CW Samurai are entirely different classes. No true with the OA Shugenja and the CD Shugenja. The main differences are that the CD Shugenja adds in the ability to trade out spells known in the same way as the sorcerer, the spell list is slightly different, and the Shugenja "Schools" are now called "orders" and renamed to something non-Rokugani. Essentially, the CD Shugenga is a 3.5 update, mechanically, of the existing OA class with the Rokugan-specific crap changed to something more generic.
JaniceWilson 08-07-07, 03:43 PM	As Azzy said, the classes aren't different enough to warrant such a discussion.
Ranger REG 08-08-07, 02:37 AM	Essentially, the CD Shugenga is a 3.5 update, mechanically, of the existing OA class with the Rokugan-specific crap changed to something more generic. But isn't the CD Shugenja still based on/modified from/derived from the OA Shugenja, which is Rokugan-compatible as James Wyatt have intended? It's the reason why he also include the Shaman class in the new OA, for those who do not wish to run the Rokugan setting but some other asian-centric setting. I mean, if the CD Shugenja is based on the original OA class (designed by David "Zeb" Cook) then I might allow it.
Azzy 08-09-07, 06:51 AM	But isn't the CD Shugenja still based on/modified from/derived from the OA Shugenja, which is Rokugan-compatible as James Wyatt have intended? It's the reason why he also include the Shaman class in the new OA, for those who do not wish to run the Rokugan setting but some other asian-centric setting. I mean, if the CD Shugenja is based on the original OA class (designed by David "Zeb" Cook) then I might allow it. No, CD Shugenja is just an update of the Rokugan Shugenja (in 3.0 OA). The closest thing we have the old 1e OA (misspelled) Shukenja is 3.0 OA's Shaman.
Steely_Dan 08-09-07, 11:09 AM	The closest thing we have the old 1e OA (misspelled) Shukenja is 3.0 OA's Shaman. Yeah, and don't we call them a Dang Ki in Shou Lung?
Azzy 08-09-07, 01:35 PM	Yeah, and don't we call them a Dang Ki in Shou Lung? Don't make me break out my old Kara Tur boxed set... ...too late.... Yes. :)
Hochiu 08-10-07, 11:32 AM	No, CD Shugenja is just an update of the Rokugan Shugenja (in 3.0 OA). The closest thing we have the old 1e OA (misspelled) Shukenja is 3.0 OA's Shaman. And unfortunately, the Shaman isn't too well thought out of a class. It's good in theory, but the execution leaves a lot to be desired, and it suffers from a bit of the whole "monk" syndrome, where there's nothing outside the class able to compliment it easily.
Steely_Dan 08-10-07, 11:37 AM	And unfortunately, the Shaman isn't too well thought out of a class. It's good in theory, but the execution leaves a lot to be desired, and it suffers from a bit of the whole "monk" syndrome, where there's nothing outside the class able to compliment it easily. True, but the 3.5 update helped it…marginally.
Razz 08-10-07, 11:59 AM	I think the question is what's the difference between the OA Shaman and the CD Spirit Shaman? Both deal with spirits, both can obviously fit into an OA setting. Shamans have martial arts and turn undead, Spirit Shamans don't. But both of them focus on "spirits" in similar ways so how would someone tell another what the difference between the two are? And the Spirit Shaman has a better spell list than the Shaman. It's hard to tell what's a good Shaman spell and what's not good to add to their spell list, but the Spirit Shaman says simply to use the Druid spell list.
Ranger REG 08-10-07, 07:41 PM	Yeah, and don't we call them a Dang Ki in Shou Lung? I really need a vacation. I'm seroiusly considering making a character named "Dang Ki Shen," the singing shaman.
Sleepwalker13666 08-12-07, 08:13 PM	I really need a vacation. I'm seroiusly considering making a character named "Dang Ki Shen," the singing shaman. I once had a samurai name Mitso, the Bushi. ---------------------------------------------------------- (which was meant to be a bastardization of Mitsubishi in case anyone doesn't get it.)
Azzy 08-12-07, 10:01 PM	I really need a vacation. I'm seroiusly considering making a character named "Dang Ki Shen," the singing shaman. Bless you.
Azzy 08-12-07, 10:06 PM	I once had a samurai name Mitso, the Bushi. ---------------------------------------------------------- (which was meant to be a bastardization of Mitsubishi in case anyone doesn't get it.) You get zero points for that.... But at least they're A6M Zero points.
Hochiu 08-13-07, 01:18 AM	You get zero points for that.... But at least they're A6M Zero points. I actually cannot ride in a Mitsubishi car for that reason.
Azzy 08-13-07, 07:03 AM	I actually cannot ride in a Mitsubishi car for that reason. So, how do you feel about Volkswagens or Porches? :D
Hochiu 08-13-07, 09:45 AM	So, how do you feel about Volkswagens or Porches? :D XD. This sounds dumb, but I don't think Volkswagen or Porsche built actual military vehicles like Mitsubishi did with the Zero. I mean, Volkswagen had the Kübelwagen and the Schwimmwagen, more support-oriented craft, like the Willie's Jeep, and I can't find what Porsche had. It's just one of my silly little quirks. I have too much history in me to be healthy. Though I can easily see someone not riding in a German car if they were from, say...all of Europe. :P But most normal people don't care. Heh.
Azzy 08-13-07, 07:15 PM	XD. This sounds dumb, but I don't think Volkswagen or Porsche built actual military vehicles like Mitsubishi did with the Zero. I mean, Volkswagen had the Kübelwagen and the Schwimmwagen, more support-oriented craft, like the Willie's Jeep, and I can't find what Porsche had. Ferdinand Porsche (who designed the Volkswagen, and later founded Porsche AG) used forced labor at Volkswagen factories during WW2 where slaves were literally worked to death. It's just one of my silly little quirks. I have too much history in me to be healthy. Oh, I understand. Sorry to add a little more. Though I can easily see someone not riding in a German car if they were from, say...all of Europe. :P But most normal people don't care. Heh. For me, I can separate the amoral and reprehensible actions of Ferdinand Porsche from the car companies (I like Beetles), but it's something that I choose to Not Forget.
Sleepwalker13666 08-13-07, 07:36 PM	For me, I can separate the amoral and reprehensible actions of Ferdinand Porsche from the car companies (I like Beetles), but it's something that I choose to Not Forget. Not to many people know that those where designed by A.H.
Hochiu 08-13-07, 08:32 PM	For me, I can separate the amoral and reprehensible actions of Ferdinand Porsche from the car companies (I like Beetles), but it's something that I choose to Not Forget. I tend to not like Porsche cars on principle, though, so its a moot issue there. That, and no one I know has one. Mitsubishi Gallants on the other hand...bleh.
Ranger REG 08-18-07, 03:19 AM	So, how do you feel about Volkswagens or Porches? :D :thinks: There's no "V" sound in the Japanese language.
Count Arioch the 28th 08-26-07, 08:32 AM	Ferdinand Porsche (who designed the Volkswagen, and later founded Porsche AG) used forced labor at Volkswagen factories during WW2 where slaves were literally worked to death. Got a source for that? I'm not automatically disbeleiving you, I just want some backup before I boycott those companies along with Mitsubishi.
Azzy 08-27-07, 02:13 PM	Got a source for that? Here (http://mondediplo.com/1998/01/11volkswag), here (http://www.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Companies/CompanyDetails.aspx?hhname=volkswagencom&cbRecursionCnt=1&cbsid=3730d59fddfc4119ba375ff27e594e82-241539057-VG-4&ns_siteid=ns_us_g_Ferdinand_Porsche_Vol_ ), and here (http://books.google.com/books?id=fHYh1QxFnFwC&pg=PA282&lpg=PA282&dq=ferdinand+porsche+volkswagen+forced+l abor&source=web&ots=Q6mo4_Qmsd&sig=ABDahb96BkDLo2qXX0oHTUfRHfA) for starters. Also, see: Beyond Expectation: "The Volkswagen Story" (http://www.amazon.com/Volkswagen-story-K-B-Hopfinger/dp/0854291091/ref=sr_1_1/104-1093646-6171137?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1188239249&sr=8-1) K.B. Hopfinger. Third Edition c. 1956, G.T. Foulis & Co., Ltd. (London) I'm not automatically disbeleiving you, I just want some backup before I boycott those companies along with Mitsubishi. Personally, I wouldn't boycott these companies--they are no longer in the hands of those that were responsible for these acts. It's all in the past.