The best Daisho? [Archive] - Wizards Community

The best Daisho? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ronwilsonbusdriver
03-29-08, 12:26 PM Hello all,
I am creating an epic level campaign for my pc's to have fun in. It will be based in Rokugan and there will be a 20th level Samurai that the pc's will encounter. If you were creating a 20th level Samurai from scratch, and he had a Katana and Wakazashi with Ancestral Daisho to take full advantage of, what kind of magical upgrades would you include? For all intensive purposes, consider that this Samurai had the time and money to upgrade his Ancestral Daisho to whatever you wanted.
narukagami
03-29-08, 12:42 PM Equipment and Combat could probably help better to come up with the "best" +10 magic swords. But whatever you do, when posting there avoid mention of of the words "katana," "wakizashi," and "samurai" or anything Japanese at ALL COSTS! They have a deep rooted hatred for anything non-European over there, so mentioning any of those terms will just cause a giant unnecessary flame war.

ANYWAY, I'd say anything and everything that gives bonus damage.
Avoid stuff that can be duplicated with feats (like keen), or overpriced things that aren't really worth their cost (like Speed and, especially, Vorpal). Remember that the elemental damages do work simultaneously by RAW (as in, you can have a sword that does both +1d6 Fire and +1d6 Cold damage). The Magic Item Compendium has a ton of new enhancements and sources of bonus damage, so I'd look there, if you have it or know someone who does.
ronwilsonbusdriver
03-29-08, 12:53 PM Thanks Narukagami,
I posted this message here because of the apparent weirdness of 'oriental' based threads anywhere else. I was just wondering what kinds of neat things people could come up with. Whether people envision this Samurai as an offensive powerhouse, a defensive genius, or whatever; cool swords are cool swords. I will look in my friends magic compendium like you said for other upgrades. If anyone else would like to chime in about something they have or a character they have had with some kick butt daisho that would be cool.:)
Krusk
03-30-08, 03:01 AM What do you think of the idea that he uses his katana two handed.

It is +5 keen, briliant energy. For the Wakazashi, well this is enchanted to be +5 dancing, ___. His tactic is to start combat by throwing his wakazashi out at his opponents. Either bouncing it captain america shield style, or he has an ancestor spirit hold and weild it. (describe the dancing in this manner) Then he two hands the katana and fights in the center of the whirling wakazashi.
narukagami
03-30-08, 02:53 PM What do you think of the idea that he uses his katana two handed.

It is +5 keen, briliant energy. For the Wakazashi, well this is enchanted to be +5 dancing, ___. His tactic is to start combat by throwing his wakazashi out at his opponents. Either bouncing it captain america shield style, or he has an ancestor spirit hold and weild it. (describe the dancing in this manner) Then he two hands the katana and fights in the center of the whirling wakazashi. Keen is a waste unless you are a class without a boatload of bonus feats or the DM allows it to stack with Improved Crit. Just take the Improved Crit feat and save the enhancement slot for something more useful.
ronwilsonbusdriver
03-30-08, 09:50 PM Hi,
I think the idea is pretty cool, especially because you have an explaination of sorts of the dancing Wakizashi. In my group, we allow improved crit to stack with a keen weapon but i can understand how many wouldn't be too keen on it. Normally I think that Vorpal is very overated for the price, but if your group allows keen and improved crit to stack, don't you think that a keen vorpal Katana +4 would be pretty devastating? That would give a threat range of 15-20, thats like one out of every four hits is a lopped off head. How about a Wakizashi with +5 defending to go with it, i'm not sure what else to add to it though.
ronwilsonbusdriver
03-30-08, 09:51 PM Maybe for the Wakizashi from Krusk he could add bane to undead or constructs since the Katana's brilliant energy would be useless against them?
Kalis Atrud
03-31-08, 07:18 AM I'd want to have the Shadow-Striking enhancement from TOM. Sure, it doesn't help against the PC's, but if I plan to only use those two weapons I don't want to be shut down by damage reduction.
MacrossSD
03-31-08, 08:06 PM What do you think of the idea that he uses his katana two handed.

Most samurai would anyway -- I actually own a katana and it's a bugger to wield effectively in one hand.
Lord Psynister
03-31-08, 10:31 PM If I were sticking to Core only:

"Katana": +5 (Un)Holy, Vicious, Ghost Touch Bastard Sword

"Wakazashi": +4 (Un)Holy, Dancing Short Sword (maybe a different sword type since some people consider it closer to a longsword/rapier)

If you wanted to throw some flavor in there as many powerful samurai are associated with being able to do extraordinary things, then I would throw in some of these:
1. Bane (whatever) - if you wish to be known as the one who slew the (whatevers)
2. Defending - the man who could not be touched
3. Mighty Cleaving - his sword could slice cleanly through the necks of 10 goblins in a single stroke
4. Throwing - he once slew a mighty dragon in midflight by throwing his katana into the beast's chest
5. Anarchic/Axiomatic - Unleashed Chaos/Restored Peace
6. Vorpal/Speed - He slew the great wurm Vestrixxast'ernalzhist'nerastka with a single stroke, and the blade was resheashed before the legendary dragon's head even hit the ground
calronmoonflower
04-01-08, 10:32 PM I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Honorable enhancement yet. It fits in thematically and is very powerful.
Krusk
04-02-08, 01:26 AM Keen is a waste unless you are a class without a boatload of bonus feats or the DM allows it to stack with Improved Crit. Just take the Improved Crit feat and save the enhancement slot for something more useful.

Thats funny, personally i would much rather spend gold than one of my precious feats. I consider improved crit a waste.

vorpal katana crits 15-20, lops off heads specifically only on a nat 20. Sorry.

For briliant energy vs undead and constructs. Most DMs I have seen allow someone to actually not activate all properties of a weapon. Using the logic that the weapon properties are activated via command word, why would you command your sword to become innefficitive? I don't know how RAW that is, but it makes logical sense to us.

Yeah katana one handed? not so sure about those. for the purposes of a dual wielding katana thread, I grabbed both of mine a couple of weeks ago and went swinging. FYI very dangerous activity for those untrained in it.
unundindur
04-02-08, 07:37 AM +4 Greater wounding Adamantine collision Katana
+4 Greater wounding Adamantine collision Wakizashi

As good as you get in shere destructive power.

"Bloodstone" (+1 ability, MiC) is also quite interesting, especially if combined with the regular spellstoring ability.
"Human bane" is useful if the setting is typically human-infested.
"Keen" can be useful.
"Sundering" is useful with +5 adamantine weapons, as they virtually break anything you can think of in one strike.
ronwilsonbusdriver
04-02-08, 11:58 PM Hi,
Good stuff. As for the one handed katana use, I have never tried it in real life and would probably regret it if I did, but it can be done in d&d hence the Niten Master from the dragon clan.

Also, I have a 15 level samurai with a +1 vorpal keen honarable katana (with improved crit) and a +5 wakizashi of defending. It is pretty fun because i get some cool bonuses to offense and defense to round out the character. honorable fits right in with his personality type. Anyone ever play with some evil Samurai?

Also, I don't have the 3.5 dmg (still on the 3.0) but i'm pretty sure that the 3.0 book says a vorpal removes head on all crit hits, is my memory wrong?
ronwilsonbusdriver
04-03-08, 12:00 AM hey psynister,
what is vicious and which book is it from?
narukagami
04-03-08, 01:48 AM hey psynister,
what is vicious and which book is it from? Pretty sure its in the DMG, gives you an extra 2d6 damage to each attack, but you take 1d6 damage in return. Its a +1 bonus equivalent.

EDIT: Yup, its in the SRD, even.
Vicious

When a vicious weapon strikes an opponent, it creates a flash of disruptive energy that resonates between the opponent and the wielder. This energy deals an extra 2d6 points of damage to the opponent and 1d6 points of damage to the wielder. Only melee weapons can be vicious.

Moderate necromancy; CL 9th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, enervation; Price +1 bonus.
The_Shaman
04-07-08, 09:54 AM I think Defending is a good enchantment for a secondary weapon. I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned more often.
ronwilsonbusdriver
04-08-08, 07:38 PM hi,
Yeah, defending for the off hand weapon is great. I also have the off hand parry feat so I can get some extra AC but I have to give up the extra attack with the wak. My Samurai is pretty much the tank in this current party i'm in but I also enjoy playing more subtle characters as well. Ohh, my samurai character is 17th level not 15th like I said before.

What about some of the weapon 'add-ons' in the Oriental Adventures book that only have a monetary listing and not an enhancement bonus rating? How would you handle someone who wanted to add one of these things to their weapon through ancestral daisho?
ronwilsonbusdriver
04-08-08, 07:40 PM thanks for the info Narukagami. I also found vicious in my arms and equipment guide. where is collision from and what does it do?
Count Arioch the 28th
04-10-08, 09:55 AM Keen is a waste unless you are a class without a boatload of bonus feats or the DM allows it to stack with Improved Crit. Just take the Improved Crit feat and save the enhancement slot for something more useful.

I'd argue that it's better to use Keen, and save the feat slot for something more useful. Feats are literally priceless.
Count Arioch the 28th
04-10-08, 09:57 AM thanks for the info Narukagami. I also found vicious in my arms and equipment guide. where is collision from and what does it do?

Expanded psionics handbook, it increases damage by +5.
unundindur
04-15-08, 03:55 AM Collision have been reprinted in the Magic item compendium.

For greater wounding, it is found in the errata of Monster maual II (a demon use it).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ronwilsonbusdriver 03-29-08, 12:26 PM	Hello all, I am creating an epic level campaign for my pc's to have fun in. It will be based in Rokugan and there will be a 20th level Samurai that the pc's will encounter. If you were creating a 20th level Samurai from scratch, and he had a Katana and Wakazashi with Ancestral Daisho to take full advantage of, what kind of magical upgrades would you include? For all intensive purposes, consider that this Samurai had the time and money to upgrade his Ancestral Daisho to whatever you wanted.
narukagami 03-29-08, 12:42 PM	Equipment and Combat could probably help better to come up with the "best" +10 magic swords. But whatever you do, when posting there avoid mention of of the words "katana," "wakizashi," and "samurai" or anything Japanese at ALL COSTS! They have a deep rooted hatred for anything non-European over there, so mentioning any of those terms will just cause a giant unnecessary flame war. ANYWAY, I'd say anything and everything that gives bonus damage. Avoid stuff that can be duplicated with feats (like keen), or overpriced things that aren't really worth their cost (like Speed and, especially, Vorpal). Remember that the elemental damages do work simultaneously by RAW (as in, you can have a sword that does both +1d6 Fire and +1d6 Cold damage). The Magic Item Compendium has a ton of new enhancements and sources of bonus damage, so I'd look there, if you have it or know someone who does.
ronwilsonbusdriver 03-29-08, 12:53 PM	Thanks Narukagami, I posted this message here because of the apparent weirdness of 'oriental' based threads anywhere else. I was just wondering what kinds of neat things people could come up with. Whether people envision this Samurai as an offensive powerhouse, a defensive genius, or whatever; cool swords are cool swords. I will look in my friends magic compendium like you said for other upgrades. If anyone else would like to chime in about something they have or a character they have had with some kick butt daisho that would be cool.:)
Krusk 03-30-08, 03:01 AM	What do you think of the idea that he uses his katana two handed. It is +5 keen, briliant energy. For the Wakazashi, well this is enchanted to be +5 dancing, ___. His tactic is to start combat by throwing his wakazashi out at his opponents. Either bouncing it captain america shield style, or he has an ancestor spirit hold and weild it. (describe the dancing in this manner) Then he two hands the katana and fights in the center of the whirling wakazashi.
narukagami 03-30-08, 02:53 PM	What do you think of the idea that he uses his katana two handed. It is +5 keen, briliant energy. For the Wakazashi, well this is enchanted to be +5 dancing, ___. His tactic is to start combat by throwing his wakazashi out at his opponents. Either bouncing it captain america shield style, or he has an ancestor spirit hold and weild it. (describe the dancing in this manner) Then he two hands the katana and fights in the center of the whirling wakazashi. Keen is a waste unless you are a class without a boatload of bonus feats or the DM allows it to stack with Improved Crit. Just take the Improved Crit feat and save the enhancement slot for something more useful.
ronwilsonbusdriver 03-30-08, 09:50 PM	Hi, I think the idea is pretty cool, especially because you have an explaination of sorts of the dancing Wakizashi. In my group, we allow improved crit to stack with a keen weapon but i can understand how many wouldn't be too keen on it. Normally I think that Vorpal is very overated for the price, but if your group allows keen and improved crit to stack, don't you think that a keen vorpal Katana +4 would be pretty devastating? That would give a threat range of 15-20, thats like one out of every four hits is a lopped off head. How about a Wakizashi with +5 defending to go with it, i'm not sure what else to add to it though.
ronwilsonbusdriver 03-30-08, 09:51 PM	Maybe for the Wakizashi from Krusk he could add bane to undead or constructs since the Katana's brilliant energy would be useless against them?
Kalis Atrud 03-31-08, 07:18 AM	I'd want to have the Shadow-Striking enhancement from TOM. Sure, it doesn't help against the PC's, but if I plan to only use those two weapons I don't want to be shut down by damage reduction.
MacrossSD 03-31-08, 08:06 PM	What do you think of the idea that he uses his katana two handed. Most samurai would anyway -- I actually own a katana and it's a bugger to wield effectively in one hand.
Lord Psynister 03-31-08, 10:31 PM	If I were sticking to Core only: "Katana": +5 (Un)Holy, Vicious, Ghost Touch Bastard Sword "Wakazashi": +4 (Un)Holy, Dancing Short Sword (maybe a different sword type since some people consider it closer to a longsword/rapier) If you wanted to throw some flavor in there as many powerful samurai are associated with being able to do extraordinary things, then I would throw in some of these: 1. Bane (whatever) - if you wish to be known as the one who slew the (whatevers) 2. Defending - the man who could not be touched 3. Mighty Cleaving - his sword could slice cleanly through the necks of 10 goblins in a single stroke 4. Throwing - he once slew a mighty dragon in midflight by throwing his katana into the beast's chest 5. Anarchic/Axiomatic - Unleashed Chaos/Restored Peace 6. Vorpal/Speed - He slew the great wurm Vestrixxast'ernalzhist'nerastka with a single stroke, and the blade was resheashed before the legendary dragon's head even hit the ground
calronmoonflower 04-01-08, 10:32 PM	I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Honorable enhancement yet. It fits in thematically and is very powerful.
Krusk 04-02-08, 01:26 AM	Keen is a waste unless you are a class without a boatload of bonus feats or the DM allows it to stack with Improved Crit. Just take the Improved Crit feat and save the enhancement slot for something more useful. Thats funny, personally i would much rather spend gold than one of my precious feats. I consider improved crit a waste. vorpal katana crits 15-20, lops off heads specifically only on a nat 20. Sorry. For briliant energy vs undead and constructs. Most DMs I have seen allow someone to actually not activate all properties of a weapon. Using the logic that the weapon properties are activated via command word, why would you command your sword to become innefficitive? I don't know how RAW that is, but it makes logical sense to us. Yeah katana one handed? not so sure about those. for the purposes of a dual wielding katana thread, I grabbed both of mine a couple of weeks ago and went swinging. FYI very dangerous activity for those untrained in it.
unundindur 04-02-08, 07:37 AM	+4 Greater wounding Adamantine collision Katana +4 Greater wounding Adamantine collision Wakizashi As good as you get in shere destructive power. "Bloodstone" (+1 ability, MiC) is also quite interesting, especially if combined with the regular spellstoring ability. "Human bane" is useful if the setting is typically human-infested. "Keen" can be useful. "Sundering" is useful with +5 adamantine weapons, as they virtually break anything you can think of in one strike.
ronwilsonbusdriver 04-02-08, 11:58 PM	Hi, Good stuff. As for the one handed katana use, I have never tried it in real life and would probably regret it if I did, but it can be done in d&d hence the Niten Master from the dragon clan. Also, I have a 15 level samurai with a +1 vorpal keen honarable katana (with improved crit) and a +5 wakizashi of defending. It is pretty fun because i get some cool bonuses to offense and defense to round out the character. honorable fits right in with his personality type. Anyone ever play with some evil Samurai? Also, I don't have the 3.5 dmg (still on the 3.0) but i'm pretty sure that the 3.0 book says a vorpal removes head on all crit hits, is my memory wrong?
ronwilsonbusdriver 04-03-08, 12:00 AM	hey psynister, what is vicious and which book is it from?
narukagami 04-03-08, 01:48 AM	hey psynister, what is vicious and which book is it from? Pretty sure its in the DMG, gives you an extra 2d6 damage to each attack, but you take 1d6 damage in return. Its a +1 bonus equivalent. EDIT: Yup, its in the SRD, even. Vicious When a vicious weapon strikes an opponent, it creates a flash of disruptive energy that resonates between the opponent and the wielder. This energy deals an extra 2d6 points of damage to the opponent and 1d6 points of damage to the wielder. Only melee weapons can be vicious. Moderate necromancy; CL 9th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, enervation; Price +1 bonus.
The_Shaman 04-07-08, 09:54 AM	I think Defending is a good enchantment for a secondary weapon. I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned more often.
ronwilsonbusdriver 04-08-08, 07:38 PM	hi, Yeah, defending for the off hand weapon is great. I also have the off hand parry feat so I can get some extra AC but I have to give up the extra attack with the wak. My Samurai is pretty much the tank in this current party i'm in but I also enjoy playing more subtle characters as well. Ohh, my samurai character is 17th level not 15th like I said before. What about some of the weapon 'add-ons' in the Oriental Adventures book that only have a monetary listing and not an enhancement bonus rating? How would you handle someone who wanted to add one of these things to their weapon through ancestral daisho?
ronwilsonbusdriver 04-08-08, 07:40 PM	thanks for the info Narukagami. I also found vicious in my arms and equipment guide. where is collision from and what does it do?
Count Arioch the 28th 04-10-08, 09:55 AM	Keen is a waste unless you are a class without a boatload of bonus feats or the DM allows it to stack with Improved Crit. Just take the Improved Crit feat and save the enhancement slot for something more useful. I'd argue that it's better to use Keen, and save the feat slot for something more useful. Feats are literally priceless.
Count Arioch the 28th 04-10-08, 09:57 AM	thanks for the info Narukagami. I also found vicious in my arms and equipment guide. where is collision from and what does it do? Expanded psionics handbook, it increases damage by +5.
unundindur 04-15-08, 03:55 AM	Collision have been reprinted in the Magic item compendium. For greater wounding, it is found in the errata of Monster maual II (a demon use it).