Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JackAltrades 07-25-07, 01:00 PM	I think I found a bug in the rules. Is it possible to gain epic progression before level 20? Say you have an evil priest of death... Rogue 3/Cleric 3/ Assassin 3... you then add to the mix Mystic theurge 7. Now thats 10 levels of assassin spellcasting at character level 16. so you continue to progress as assassin for your last 4 levels... how does that work? Does the priest of death gain 2 spells known per level as an epic assassin, or because they are not yet level 20 they cannot progress in their spellcasting. What do you think?
Arkeas 07-25-07, 01:08 PM	You already gained those levels of spellcasting, so you cannot gain them again, and the epic levels of spellcasting do not exist until you go epic, so congratulations, you have just bard (I am soo sorry for the horrible pun) yourself from the assassin class until level 21.
G_Mancer 07-25-07, 11:10 PM	You already gained those levels of spellcasting, so you cannot gain them again, and the epic levels of spellcasting do not exist until you go epic, so congratulations, you have just bard (I am soo sorry for the horrible pun) yourself from the assassin class until level 21. i'm not sure thats entirely correct. i cant back it up right now, but it seems like a wiz4/clr3/MT10 could progress further in clr or wiz and gain more spells.... MT doesn't give you clr or wiz spells, it allows your to add it's class lvl to wiz/clr class lvl to determine spells. so they would stack.
Jaxgaret 07-26-07, 01:03 AM	i'm not sure thats entirely correct. i cant back it up right now, but it seems like a wiz4/clr3/MT10 could progress further in clr or wiz and gain more spells.... MT doesn't give you clr or wiz spells, it allows your to add it's class lvl to wiz/clr class lvl to determine spells. so they would stack. Wizards and Clerics are 20-level base classes. Arkeas was referring to the Assassin class, a 10-level PrC. You are comparing apples to oranges... of course you can take Wizard or Cleric again after you are done with your MT progression pre-epic. That doesn't make one bit of difference when one is talking about a character progressing levels in Assassin. So, anyway, what Arkeas said was correct. To the OP: please read the rules for Epic characters. Here are the basics (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/basics.htm). You can find more at d20srd.org, under the section marked "Epic Rules".
strenoth 07-26-07, 02:02 AM	MT only applies to caster level. at level 16, you cast your spells as a level 10 assassin and a level 10 cleric. Assassin spell progression ceases at level 10. If you take another level in assassin, all you get is basically +1 caster level, meaning you penetrate Spell Resistance using + 11, and figure spell variables as a caster level of 11. as there is no spell progression, this little boost is a very minor benefit of having taken a casting-focused PrC after 3 levels in a non-casting class, and 3 more in a weak-casting class. Oh, and taking more levels of MT has the same result, but at least your clerical casting level goes up.
JackAltrades 07-26-07, 03:17 AM	I don't see any rules that say assassin spellcasting progression stops at 10. to take your 11th level in assassin you must be epic. thanx for the link though.
strenoth 07-26-07, 10:02 AM	Spells The assassin’s caster level is equal to his or her class level. The assassin’s number of spells per day does not increase after 10th level. taken from the epic page, as that is the only reference for assasin spells beyond 10th level. And having an effective caster level of 11 is not the same as taking 11th level in that class. you are in no way prevented from taking more levels of assasin or MT. All it does is increase your caster level. there's nothing inherently epic about an assasin having a caster level greater than 10, excepting that fora a pure rogue/assasin it's not normally possible before taking 11+ levels in the assasin PrC.
Mindolin 07-26-07, 11:00 AM	Also, don't forget that to get epic spellcasting, they have to be able to cast ninth level spells, so the assassin still can't get it.
JackAltrades 07-29-07, 04:01 AM	I'm not talking about epic casting though. All the assassin gets beyond his tenth level is two more spells known, no extra spell slots just more options.
runestar 07-29-07, 11:51 PM	Assassins can eventually access 9th lv slots by taking ISC 5 times, though that is a very long way off. Same for other partial-caster classes like ranger, paladin etc.:)
G_Mancer 07-30-07, 02:04 AM	ISC??
runestar 07-30-07, 07:29 AM	ISC = improved spell capacity.
Callix 07-30-07, 07:31 AM	Improved Spell Capacity [Epic]. Look in the SRD, or the ELH. Or maybe the DMG. Anyway, by my reading, does the assassin have a spells known by level table? If it does, then you only get caster levels. If it says you know two spells per assassin level, you get your options. This depends on the exact wording... SRD has a table... Bad luck, Jack. No options. Not pre-epic, anyway.
runestar 07-30-07, 08:03 AM	The epic assassin entry in the SRD has this to say... Spells The assassin’s caster level is equal to his or her class level. The assassin’s number of spells per day does not increase after 10th level. And in case you try to smart-ass your way out of this, bear in mind that 10th lv refers to 10 lvs of effective assassin spellcasting, not after having taken 10 lvs of assassin prc lvs. Too bad for you.:P