Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tichondrus 04-01-07, 06:28 AM	So here's how it goes: The arcane order can give a mage of that same order any spell (considering the limitations and bla bla). Now, for this theorical case, let's say that I have access to the spell, I have enough level and I (ya I I I ) have met all the requirements. Now there's a 7th level spell (called jail of force or something like that) wich costs 1500 gp to be MEMORIZED, no cast. So, according to the rules given in Tome and Blood (archaic, but what my DM uses), the mage of the arcane order can bring any spell from the order to his/her head as long as: S/he has not bought x ammount of spell levels that day. S/he has the empty slot of the corresponding level. S/he has enough levels on that class and as an spellcaster. So, considering this, and considering the spellcost my idea was "Yey, I can cast it once a day for free, sacrificing all the other spells I can bring from the order that day!" DMs answer: "You should not even have asked, you know you can't" Well, after taking the chance of adding my metamagic feats to the spells I bring from the order (example: I have a 3th level slot and just want a magic misile. I have the silent ands till casting feats, I bring it to my third level slot with the feats that I alredy know), now he wants to take that away as well (the only other good skill of the PrC). So, he asked me to at least ask you all if that was posible, because according to him "It makes absolutely no sense that he can cast the spell withow the material component" My answer: "You dont need the component to cast the spell" DM: "Just ask in the forums". So, is it posible to bring such spell to my head with my arcane order mage special ability (and how in earth does a sorcerer cast such spell?)
Maraxus 04-01-07, 07:01 AM	Now there's a 7th level spell (called jail of force or something like that) wich costs 1500 gp to be MEMORIZED, no cast. Never heard of it. There is Forcecage, a 7th level spell that needs a 1500 gp material component when cast (like every other component). If there was a spell that had a certain cost when memorizing, then Mage of the Arcane Order could be a good way around it. Up to my knowledge there is none however and it is no way around material components. If it's a houserule it's up to the dm to choose the interferences with other material, anyway.
Tichondrus 04-01-07, 07:21 AM	Thanks. It's forcecage I speak about, and we are playing by the 3.0 rules, but I needed the opinion (in 3E you pay the cost when memorizing it). Thanks a lot again, I'll make sure my DM reads this :D
Maraxus 04-01-07, 09:39 AM	I've played 3.0 too. I can't remember that and I still have a 3.0 SRD on my PC. So let me check: Components A spell's Components line includes abbreviations that tell the character what type of components it has. Specifics for material, focus, and XP components are given at the end of the descriptive text. Usually the character doesn't worry about components, but when the character can't use a component for some reason or when a material or focus component is expensive, then they count. (...) M (Material): A material component is a physical substance or object that is annihilated by the spell energies in the casting process. Unless a cost is given for a material component, the cost is negligible. Assume the character has all components (of negligible cost) needed as long as the character has a spell component pouch.
Kannon_Fodder 04-01-07, 09:42 AM	This should be an easy call. To cast the spell the mage must have the components in hand. Instead of being used to memorize the spell, they are consumed in casting. The feat gives the guild mage some added flexibility but is not a freebie.
Maraxus 04-01-07, 09:45 AM	:D I'm sure, that if a group switches from "material components are consumed while memorizing" to "...when cast", that the caster will be happy, even if he before had a loophole to get Forcecage for free once (especially since his dm did not allow that anyway) :D
Tichondrus 04-01-07, 09:47 AM	Maraxus, read the spell itself, what I speak about is in the spell's description.
LuxVeritatis 04-01-07, 03:41 PM	Hmm. Whaddya know. Found a 3.0 SRD and Forcecage does indeed have a note in components of "V,S,M (see text)" and an explicit note in the spell description of "1500 gp, consumed when prepared." Wasn't errata'd, and wasn't clarified. How odd. As to whether a guild mage should be able to summon it... I would say yes and no. Yes, in that it is possible, but no, in that it costs the Guild 1500 to make the spell available for 'download'. So it's not available without specific prior arrangement. Or, in other words, RAW might say you can do it, but I can really understand why the GM says you can't. And I really have no idea how a sorceror interacts with that spell.
Empiro 04-01-07, 05:38 PM	d20srd.org does list it as it being consumed when cast, so it might have been errata'ed somewhere. I were the DM, I'd go with that ruling.
Maraxus 04-01-07, 06:36 PM	Looks like that. Makes it important to remember, that you don't have to clear your spell-slots in the morning (unused spells stay prepared). Lux: Hehe, good point, Sorcerers would be able to cast that for free. Or for wizards: Get "Signature spell". An old feat form the FRCS that allows you to choose one spell-mastered spell and spontaneously convert other spells into that spell (like clerics cast cure/inflict spells).
Tichondrus 04-03-07, 07:36 AM	Signature spell was really sexy in 2E as well ah, the good ol' times =p And yes, I'd rule (if I was the DM and had a player clever enough to think about that spell), that sorcerors do it for free unless they prepare it with the feat "Arcane preparation" or something like that (the one needed to access the guild if youa re a sorceror/bard)
RellenMarn 04-03-07, 12:25 PM	I believe the DMs decision to be entirely justified. Consider the flavor of the Spell Pool a mage pays back his debts - that is where the spells come from. What Mage is going to spend 1500gp so you can have a free spell - none. The player should not have even asked. As for "the only other good ability of the PRC", it is not an ability of the PRC as far as I can see. I think your DM is well within his rights to deny it. It remains a great PRC.
Tichondrus 04-03-07, 12:28 PM	That was not the "Only good ability". The one i mentioned as so was the ability to bring the spells to my head on the first place and add to them any metagamical feat (as long as the slot i have aviable is high enough). And then, a mage knows he'll need both his seven level slots tomorrow and he has a forcecage memorized in one of them. He'd: Just lose it or send it to the guild? Believe me, in the camping we are palying, taht situation happends every other day