A PrC to transform an aasimar cleric/paladin into a celestial [Archive] - Wizards Community

A PrC to transform an aasimar cleric/paladin into a celestial [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Perun
05-22-07, 08:54 AM Say you wanted to design a prestige class for aasimar clerics and paladins that would, over the course of 10 levels, transform the character into a full blown outsider with all the abilities of an angel (as in the angel subtype).

Thus, upon reaching the 10th level in the PrC, the character would have (copy-pasted from the SRD (www.d20srd.org) entry for the angel (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/angel.htm) subtype):

Darkvision out to 60 feet and low-light vision.
Immunity to acid, cold, and petrification.
Resistance to electricity 10 and fire 10.
+4 racial bonus on saves against poison.
Protective Aura (Su): Against attacks made or effects created by evil creatures, this ability provides a +4 deflection bonus to AC and a +4 resistance bonus on saving throws to anyone within 20 feet of the angel. Otherwise, it functions as a magic circle against evil effect and a lesser globe of invulnerability, both with a radius of 20 feet (caster level equals angel’s HD). (The defensive benefits from the circle are not included in an angel’s statistics block.)
Tongues (Su): All angels can speak with any creature that has a language, as though using a tongues spell (caster level equal to angel’s Hit Dice). This ability is always active.

Plus an additional outsider-related ability or two:

Character does not require to eat or sleep.
Character gains the angel and good subtypes.
Character is ageless. He or she receives neither bonuses nor penalties for aging (although any such modifiers already taken remain in place), and cannot die of old age.

If the PrC in question had d8 HD, medium BAB (as cleric), and good Fortitude and Will saves, what spellcasting advancement would, in your opinion, balance against the above listed abilities?

Also, what if the PrC also gave DR, topping at 5/evil, 10/magic, or even 10/magic or evil?

The PrC should not be accessible before 8th character level, or so, and both aasimar clerics and paladins should be able to qualify. Perhaps prerequisites could be something like this:

BAB +6
Knowledge (religion) +11, Diplomacy +5
Celestial Bloodline, Outsider Wings (Both feats are from Races of Faerūn, and emphasize the character's celestial heritage, one by giving him minor spell-like abilities, and the other giving him wings and the ability to fly. Characters of any class can have both by 6th level.)
Any non-evil alignment
Ability to cast divine spells with the good descriptor
Ability to channel positive energy

Thanks in advance.

Regards.
runestar
05-22-07, 10:32 AM Angel traits, while nice to have, do not look all that useful at higher lvs (since it can readily be replicated with spells and magic items). Or at least not valuable enough to justify losing too many caster lvs.

I think 7/10 or 8/10 spellcasting progression should be quite doable.:)
The_Shaman
05-22-07, 10:36 AM The traits themselves may not be worth as much, but would you want the half-celestial abilities as well? A move from +1 to a +4 template could be done with a dragon disciple-esque class, perhaps medium BAB and 1/2 spellcasting.
Lotus Crane
05-22-07, 12:13 PM Or if you don't mind not gaining any HD, the official savage progression (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040319a) might work too.
Perun
05-22-07, 02:13 PM Thanks for the replies. Here's a rough draft of what I came up with. It's still very much a work in progress. I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts.

Heir of Heaven

Aasimars are humans carrying a spark of heaven in their blood. The rare few manage to fully manifest that spark and transcend their mortal forms, becoming a powerful force of good, a creature not unlike the noble aasimon.
Most heirs of heaven start as clerics or paladins, but druids, rangers and favoured souls can also relatively easily qualify.
The vast majority of heirs of heaven are good, whether lawful, neutral or chaotic. A few neutral ones generally tend towards lawful end of the ethical spectrum.

Requirements

Base attack bonus: +6
Skills: Knowledge (religion) 10 ranks, Knowledge (the Planes) 4 ranks
Language: Celestial
Feats: Celestial Bloodline, Outsider Wings
Alignment: Any non-evil
Spellcasting: Must be able to cast 2nd-level divine spells with good descriptor.
Special: Must be an outsider with a native subtype. Must worship a non-evil deity that uses good outsiders as his emissaries, heralds, or allies.

Table: The Heir of Heaven; HD d8

Class
Level BAB Fort Refl Will Special Spellcasting
1 +0 +2 +0 +2 Celestial Resilience, Damage Resistance, --
Turn Undead
2 +1 +3 +0 +3 Celestial Sight, Heavenly Boon (acid, cold +5) +1 level of existing divine class
3 +2 +3 +1 +3 Heavenly Resistance (electricity, fire +5) +1 level of existing divine class
4 +3 +4 +1 +4 Lesser Protective Aura +1 level of existing divine class
5 +3 +4 +1 +4 Heavenly Resistance (acid, cold +10), +1 level of existing divine class
Celestial Resilience (petrification immunity)
6 +4 +5 +2 +5 Heavenly Resistance (electricity, fire +10) --
7 +5 +5 +2 +5 Moderate Protective Aura +1 level of existing divine class
8 +6 +6 +2 +6 Heavenly Resistance (acid, cold immunity) +1 level of existing divine class
9 +6 +6 +3 +6 Tongues +1 level of existing divine class
10 +7 +7 +3 +7 Celestial Apotheosis, Greater Protective Aura +1 level of existing divine class

Class Skills (2 + Int modifier per level): Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

Weapons and Armour Proficiency: Heir of Heavens gains no proficiency with any weapons or armour.

Spells per Day/Spells Known: When a new heir of heavens level is gained (except for 1st and 6th level), the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in a divine spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that he adds the level of heir of heavens to the level of some other divine spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day, spells known, and caster level accordingly.

Celestial Resilience (Ex): At 1st level, a heir of heavens receives a +4 racial bonus on all Fortitude saves made to resist the effect of poison and petrification spells and effects. Starting at 5th level, a heir of heavens is immune to all petrification effects.

Damage Resistance (Su): A heir of heavens gains damage resistance 1/evil at first level. His damage resistance increases by 1 for every two class levels he attains, up to DR 5/evil at 9th level.

Turn Undead: A heir of heaven adds his heir of heaven class levels to his cleric levels for all purposes related to turning undead.

Celestial Sight (Ex): A 2nd level heir of heavens gains low-light vision. A heir of heavens can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.

Heavenly Resistance (Ex): At 2nd level, heir of heaven’s resistance to acid and cold increases by 5. It increases again at 5th level by +5 (for a total increase of +10). At 8th level, a heir of heavens becomes immune to all acid and cold effects.
At 3rd level, heir of heaven’s resistance to electricity and fire increases by 5 (or he gains electricity and fire resistance 5 if he didn’t already posses it). The resistance increases again at 6th level by +5 (for a total increase of +10). If this increase would give the heir of heavens a resistance to either electricity or fire greater than 10, it gains resistance 10 instead.

Lesser Protective Aura (Su): From 4th level, a heir of heavens is always surrounded by a magic circle against evil effect. Caster level is equal to the heri of heaven’s character level. This aura can be dispelled, but the angel can create it again as a free action on its next turn. (The defensive benefits from the circle are not included in an angel’s statistics block.)
Moderate Protective Aura (Su): Starting at 7th level, this ability provides a +4 deflection bonus to AC and a +4 resistance bonus on saving throws to anyone within 10 feet of the heir of heaven's against attacks made or effects created by evil creatures. Otherwise, it functions as a magic circle against evil effect (caster level equals heir of heaven's character level). This aura can be dispelled, but the heir of heavens can create it again as a free action on its next turn. (The defensive benefits from the circle are not included in an angel’s statistics block.)

Tongues (Su): At 9th level, heir of heaven can speak with any creature that has a language, as though using a tongues spell (caster level equal to heir of heaven's character level). This ability is always active.

Greater Protective Aura (Su): Starting at 10th level, this ability provides a +4 deflection bonus to AC and a +4 resistance bonus on saving throws to anyone within 10 feet of the heir of heaven's against attacks made or effects created by evil creatures. Otherwise, it functions as a magic circle against evil effect and a lesser globe of invulnerability, both with a radius of 20 feet (caster level equals heir of heaven's character level). This aura can be dispelled, but the heir of heavens can create it again as a free action on its next turn. (The defensive benefits from the circle are not included in an angel’s statistics block.)

Celestial Apotheosis: At 10th level, the heir of heavens undergoes the final transformation, severing the ties to his mortal blood. Although he retains the native subtype (as Prime Material Plane is still his plane of origin), he no longer requires to eat or sleep (although he still needs to rest for 8 hours if he is also an arcane spellcaster or manifester). The character gains Good and Angel subtypes.
The character also becomes ageless. He suffer neither bonuses nor penalties for aging (although he retains any modifiers he has already taken), and does not suffer the risk of dying of old age.
Perun
05-25-07, 02:44 AM I suppose the utter lack of comments on the PrC above is either because it's so well done that everyone is just left speechless, it being so well balanced and perfect that nobody has any ideas on how to improve it; or it's so horribly broken that there's simply no way it can ever be fixed so as to be even remotely considered to be used in any sort of campaign :P

:D

(In other words, a shameless :bump: and begging for comments)
Ertai Planeswalker
05-25-07, 04:50 AM It looks good to me. Just a few minor things:

-I'd move the +1 casterlevel gap from the last level to another level, imo preferably 6th. It will hamper the pc a little more (Gaining 9th level spells a level later) and it removes the disincentive to take the last level in the class, which is something i usually prevent when designing prestige classes. The last level of a prc should be all goodness imo.

-About the prerequisites: I'd remove the skill prerequisites. BAB +6 already makes sure no cleric of less than 8th level gets in, and the 2nd level divine spells do the same for a Paladin. (Anda Clr3.Pal3 willl be weaker anyway, so it does not matter) +11 seems a little clunky, and Diplomacy does not seem like something that this class explicitly needs. If you want your pc to spend some skill points, have him spent some on languages. His celestial heritage might give him a knack for languages, as proven by the tongues ability. If you want some more RP requirements, you could even rule that he has to learn certain interplanar languages used by the angels and their enemies, so he as to specifically learn celstial & infernal and another outsider's speech of choice (For example Modron or Auran/Ignan/Terran/Aquan)

If you really want to keep a skill requirement other than languages, go with knowledge the Planes 10 ranks instead of Religion, since it covers outsiders so it makes more sense.
Archangel62
05-25-07, 07:10 AM My only comment is that with the native outsider thing you can really only be an LA race when doing this so I guess I'm sort of questioning the use of it. Also, could a class like favored soul or Archivist use this class, and if so do you see any issues that might arise.
Ertai Planeswalker
05-25-07, 07:53 AM My only comment is that with the native outsider thing you can really only be an LA race when doing this so I guess I'm sort of questioning the use of it. Also, could a class like favored soul or Archivist use this class, and if so do you see any issues that might arise.
There are also +0 variants of outsider races. Basically, if you make them lose the outsider subtype but make them native outsiders instead, they lose the +1.
Perun
05-25-07, 08:17 AM It looks good to me. Just a few minor things:

-I'd move the +1 casterlevel gap from the last level to another level, imo preferably 6th. It will hamper the pc a little more (Gaining 9th level spells a level later) and it removes the disincentive to take the last level in the class, which is something i usually prevent when designing prestige classes. The last level of a prc should be all goodness imo.

It's a good idea. Consider it done.

-About the prerequisites: I'd remove the skill prerequisites. BAB +6 already makes sure no cleric of less than 8th level gets in, and the 2nd level divine spells do the same for a Paladin. (Anda Clr3.Pal3 willl be weaker anyway, so it does not matter) +11 seems a little clunky, and Diplomacy does not seem like something that this class explicitly needs. If you want your pc to spend some skill points, have him spent some on languages. His celestial heritage might give him a knack for languages, as proven by the tongues ability. If you want some more RP requirements, you could even rule that he has to learn certain interplanar languages used by the angels and their enemies, so he as to specifically learn celstial & infernal and another outsider's speech of choice (For example Modron or Auran/Ignan/Terran/Aquan)

If you really want to keep a skill requirement other than languages, go with knowledge the Planes 10 ranks instead of Religion, since it covers outsiders so it makes more sense.

Hm. You're right again. Knowledge (the Planes) might be a good skill to require couple of ranks in, but not too much, seeing as it's a cross-class skill for paladins. Speak Language is also a cross-class skill for both clerics and paladins, so I'll just add Celestial to the prerequisite list (can't believe I forgot that in my original draft!)

Thanks for the help! :)
Perun
05-25-07, 08:24 AM My only comment is that with the native outsider thing you can really only be an LA race when doing this so I guess I'm sort of questioning the use of it.

That was sort of my idea from the beginning. There are a few "divine servant" type of prestige classes, but most of them seem human-centric (or humanoid-centric, if you will :)). I wanted something that woud take the "celestial spark" already present in aasimar and help them transform to something greater.

Also, could a class like favored soul or Archivist use this class, and if so do you see any issues that might arise.

I don't see anything that would prevent a favoured soul from taking levels in this class. They can get in at 8th level, just like clerics and paladins.

Archivist has a the poor BAB, so would qualify at 12th level at the earliest.
Perun
05-27-07, 06:05 AM After some thought, I decided to add Turn Undead ability to the heir of heaven. The reasoning is simple -- turn undead is not that strong an ability. It seems a pity to have the ability for 8-10 levels, and then stop advancing it, which eould make it virtually useless at higher levels for it's primary purpose, turning undead, but still make it just as good for powering various divine feats (such as Domain Spontaneity or Divine Metamagic, which don't take your turning level in account, they just use your turn/day attemps).

Is this too much? Now the class grants everything the base cleric class does (same BAB and saves, same (or similar) skills), plus other abilities which are countered solely by missing out on two caster levels.

Thoughts?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Perun 05-22-07, 08:54 AM	Say you wanted to design a prestige class for aasimar clerics and paladins that would, over the course of 10 levels, transform the character into a full blown outsider with all the abilities of an angel (as in the angel subtype). Thus, upon reaching the 10th level in the PrC, the character would have (copy-pasted from the SRD (www.d20srd.org) entry for the angel (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/angel.htm) subtype): Darkvision out to 60 feet and low-light vision. Immunity to acid, cold, and petrification. Resistance to electricity 10 and fire 10. +4 racial bonus on saves against poison. Protective Aura (Su): Against attacks made or effects created by evil creatures, this ability provides a +4 deflection bonus to AC and a +4 resistance bonus on saving throws to anyone within 20 feet of the angel. Otherwise, it functions as a magic circle against evil effect and a lesser globe of invulnerability, both with a radius of 20 feet (caster level equals angel’s HD). (The defensive benefits from the circle are not included in an angel’s statistics block.) Tongues (Su): All angels can speak with any creature that has a language, as though using a tongues spell (caster level equal to angel’s Hit Dice). This ability is always active. Plus an additional outsider-related ability or two: Character does not require to eat or sleep. Character gains the angel and good subtypes. Character is ageless. He or she receives neither bonuses nor penalties for aging (although any such modifiers already taken remain in place), and cannot die of old age. If the PrC in question had d8 HD, medium BAB (as cleric), and good Fortitude and Will saves, what spellcasting advancement would, in your opinion, balance against the above listed abilities? Also, what if the PrC also gave DR, topping at 5/evil, 10/magic, or even 10/magic or evil? The PrC should not be accessible before 8th character level, or so, and both aasimar clerics and paladins should be able to qualify. Perhaps prerequisites could be something like this: BAB +6 Knowledge (religion) +11, Diplomacy +5 Celestial Bloodline, Outsider Wings (Both feats are from Races of Faerūn, and emphasize the character's celestial heritage, one by giving him minor spell-like abilities, and the other giving him wings and the ability to fly. Characters of any class can have both by 6th level.) Any non-evil alignment Ability to cast divine spells with the good descriptor Ability to channel positive energy Thanks in advance. Regards.
runestar 05-22-07, 10:32 AM	Angel traits, while nice to have, do not look all that useful at higher lvs (since it can readily be replicated with spells and magic items). Or at least not valuable enough to justify losing too many caster lvs. I think 7/10 or 8/10 spellcasting progression should be quite doable.:)
The_Shaman 05-22-07, 10:36 AM	The traits themselves may not be worth as much, but would you want the half-celestial abilities as well? A move from +1 to a +4 template could be done with a dragon disciple-esque class, perhaps medium BAB and 1/2 spellcasting.
Lotus Crane 05-22-07, 12:13 PM	Or if you don't mind not gaining any HD, the official savage progression (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040319a) might work too.
Perun 05-22-07, 02:13 PM	Thanks for the replies. Here's a rough draft of what I came up with. It's still very much a work in progress. I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts. Heir of Heaven Aasimars are humans carrying a spark of heaven in their blood. The rare few manage to fully manifest that spark and transcend their mortal forms, becoming a powerful force of good, a creature not unlike the noble aasimon. Most heirs of heaven start as clerics or paladins, but druids, rangers and favoured souls can also relatively easily qualify. The vast majority of heirs of heaven are good, whether lawful, neutral or chaotic. A few neutral ones generally tend towards lawful end of the ethical spectrum. Requirements Base attack bonus: +6 Skills: Knowledge (religion) 10 ranks, Knowledge (the Planes) 4 ranks Language: Celestial Feats: Celestial Bloodline, Outsider Wings Alignment: Any non-evil Spellcasting: Must be able to cast 2nd-level divine spells with good descriptor. Special: Must be an outsider with a native subtype. Must worship a non-evil deity that uses good outsiders as his emissaries, heralds, or allies. Table: The Heir of Heaven; HD d8 Class Level BAB Fort Refl Will Special Spellcasting 1 +0 +2 +0 +2 Celestial Resilience, Damage Resistance, -- Turn Undead 2 +1 +3 +0 +3 Celestial Sight, Heavenly Boon (acid, cold +5) +1 level of existing divine class 3 +2 +3 +1 +3 Heavenly Resistance (electricity, fire +5) +1 level of existing divine class 4 +3 +4 +1 +4 Lesser Protective Aura +1 level of existing divine class 5 +3 +4 +1 +4 Heavenly Resistance (acid, cold +10), +1 level of existing divine class Celestial Resilience (petrification immunity) 6 +4 +5 +2 +5 Heavenly Resistance (electricity, fire +10) -- 7 +5 +5 +2 +5 Moderate Protective Aura +1 level of existing divine class 8 +6 +6 +2 +6 Heavenly Resistance (acid, cold immunity) +1 level of existing divine class 9 +6 +6 +3 +6 Tongues +1 level of existing divine class 10 +7 +7 +3 +7 Celestial Apotheosis, Greater Protective Aura +1 level of existing divine class Class Skills (2 + Int modifier per level): Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int). Weapons and Armour Proficiency: Heir of Heavens gains no proficiency with any weapons or armour. Spells per Day/Spells Known: When a new heir of heavens level is gained (except for 1st and 6th level), the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in a divine spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that he adds the level of heir of heavens to the level of some other divine spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day, spells known, and caster level accordingly. Celestial Resilience (Ex): At 1st level, a heir of heavens receives a +4 racial bonus on all Fortitude saves made to resist the effect of poison and petrification spells and effects. Starting at 5th level, a heir of heavens is immune to all petrification effects. Damage Resistance (Su): A heir of heavens gains damage resistance 1/evil at first level. His damage resistance increases by 1 for every two class levels he attains, up to DR 5/evil at 9th level. Turn Undead: A heir of heaven adds his heir of heaven class levels to his cleric levels for all purposes related to turning undead. Celestial Sight (Ex): A 2nd level heir of heavens gains low-light vision. A heir of heavens can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions. Heavenly Resistance (Ex): At 2nd level, heir of heaven’s resistance to acid and cold increases by 5. It increases again at 5th level by +5 (for a total increase of +10). At 8th level, a heir of heavens becomes immune to all acid and cold effects. At 3rd level, heir of heaven’s resistance to electricity and fire increases by 5 (or he gains electricity and fire resistance 5 if he didn’t already posses it). The resistance increases again at 6th level by +5 (for a total increase of +10). If this increase would give the heir of heavens a resistance to either electricity or fire greater than 10, it gains resistance 10 instead. Lesser Protective Aura (Su): From 4th level, a heir of heavens is always surrounded by a magic circle against evil effect. Caster level is equal to the heri of heaven’s character level. This aura can be dispelled, but the angel can create it again as a free action on its next turn. (The defensive benefits from the circle are not included in an angel’s statistics block.) Moderate Protective Aura (Su): Starting at 7th level, this ability provides a +4 deflection bonus to AC and a +4 resistance bonus on saving throws to anyone within 10 feet of the heir of heaven's against attacks made or effects created by evil creatures. Otherwise, it functions as a magic circle against evil effect (caster level equals heir of heaven's character level). This aura can be dispelled, but the heir of heavens can create it again as a free action on its next turn. (The defensive benefits from the circle are not included in an angel’s statistics block.) Tongues (Su): At 9th level, heir of heaven can speak with any creature that has a language, as though using a tongues spell (caster level equal to heir of heaven's character level). This ability is always active. Greater Protective Aura (Su): Starting at 10th level, this ability provides a +4 deflection bonus to AC and a +4 resistance bonus on saving throws to anyone within 10 feet of the heir of heaven's against attacks made or effects created by evil creatures. Otherwise, it functions as a magic circle against evil effect and a lesser globe of invulnerability, both with a radius of 20 feet (caster level equals heir of heaven's character level). This aura can be dispelled, but the heir of heavens can create it again as a free action on its next turn. (The defensive benefits from the circle are not included in an angel’s statistics block.) Celestial Apotheosis: At 10th level, the heir of heavens undergoes the final transformation, severing the ties to his mortal blood. Although he retains the native subtype (as Prime Material Plane is still his plane of origin), he no longer requires to eat or sleep (although he still needs to rest for 8 hours if he is also an arcane spellcaster or manifester). The character gains Good and Angel subtypes. The character also becomes ageless. He suffer neither bonuses nor penalties for aging (although he retains any modifiers he has already taken), and does not suffer the risk of dying of old age.
Perun 05-25-07, 02:44 AM	I suppose the utter lack of comments on the PrC above is either because it's so well done that everyone is just left speechless, it being so well balanced and perfect that nobody has any ideas on how to improve it; or it's so horribly broken that there's simply no way it can ever be fixed so as to be even remotely considered to be used in any sort of campaign :P :D (In other words, a shameless :bump: and begging for comments)
Ertai Planeswalker 05-25-07, 04:50 AM	It looks good to me. Just a few minor things: -I'd move the +1 casterlevel gap from the last level to another level, imo preferably 6th. It will hamper the pc a little more (Gaining 9th level spells a level later) and it removes the disincentive to take the last level in the class, which is something i usually prevent when designing prestige classes. The last level of a prc should be all goodness imo. -About the prerequisites: I'd remove the skill prerequisites. BAB +6 already makes sure no cleric of less than 8th level gets in, and the 2nd level divine spells do the same for a Paladin. (Anda Clr3.Pal3 willl be weaker anyway, so it does not matter) +11 seems a little clunky, and Diplomacy does not seem like something that this class explicitly needs. If you want your pc to spend some skill points, have him spent some on languages. His celestial heritage might give him a knack for languages, as proven by the tongues ability. If you want some more RP requirements, you could even rule that he has to learn certain interplanar languages used by the angels and their enemies, so he as to specifically learn celstial & infernal and another outsider's speech of choice (For example Modron or Auran/Ignan/Terran/Aquan) If you really want to keep a skill requirement other than languages, go with knowledge the Planes 10 ranks instead of Religion, since it covers outsiders so it makes more sense.
Archangel62 05-25-07, 07:10 AM	My only comment is that with the native outsider thing you can really only be an LA race when doing this so I guess I'm sort of questioning the use of it. Also, could a class like favored soul or Archivist use this class, and if so do you see any issues that might arise.
Ertai Planeswalker 05-25-07, 07:53 AM	My only comment is that with the native outsider thing you can really only be an LA race when doing this so I guess I'm sort of questioning the use of it. Also, could a class like favored soul or Archivist use this class, and if so do you see any issues that might arise. There are also +0 variants of outsider races. Basically, if you make them lose the outsider subtype but make them native outsiders instead, they lose the +1.
Perun 05-25-07, 08:17 AM	It looks good to me. Just a few minor things: -I'd move the +1 casterlevel gap from the last level to another level, imo preferably 6th. It will hamper the pc a little more (Gaining 9th level spells a level later) and it removes the disincentive to take the last level in the class, which is something i usually prevent when designing prestige classes. The last level of a prc should be all goodness imo. It's a good idea. Consider it done. -About the prerequisites: I'd remove the skill prerequisites. BAB +6 already makes sure no cleric of less than 8th level gets in, and the 2nd level divine spells do the same for a Paladin. (Anda Clr3.Pal3 willl be weaker anyway, so it does not matter) +11 seems a little clunky, and Diplomacy does not seem like something that this class explicitly needs. If you want your pc to spend some skill points, have him spent some on languages. His celestial heritage might give him a knack for languages, as proven by the tongues ability. If you want some more RP requirements, you could even rule that he has to learn certain interplanar languages used by the angels and their enemies, so he as to specifically learn celstial & infernal and another outsider's speech of choice (For example Modron or Auran/Ignan/Terran/Aquan) If you really want to keep a skill requirement other than languages, go with knowledge the Planes 10 ranks instead of Religion, since it covers outsiders so it makes more sense. Hm. You're right again. Knowledge (the Planes) might be a good skill to require couple of ranks in, but not too much, seeing as it's a cross-class skill for paladins. Speak Language is also a cross-class skill for both clerics and paladins, so I'll just add Celestial to the prerequisite list (can't believe I forgot that in my original draft!) Thanks for the help! :)
Perun 05-25-07, 08:24 AM	My only comment is that with the native outsider thing you can really only be an LA race when doing this so I guess I'm sort of questioning the use of it. That was sort of my idea from the beginning. There are a few "divine servant" type of prestige classes, but most of them seem human-centric (or humanoid-centric, if you will :)). I wanted something that woud take the "celestial spark" already present in aasimar and help them transform to something greater. Also, could a class like favored soul or Archivist use this class, and if so do you see any issues that might arise. I don't see anything that would prevent a favoured soul from taking levels in this class. They can get in at 8th level, just like clerics and paladins. Archivist has a the poor BAB, so would qualify at 12th level at the earliest.
Perun 05-27-07, 06:05 AM	After some thought, I decided to add Turn Undead ability to the heir of heaven. The reasoning is simple -- turn undead is not that strong an ability. It seems a pity to have the ability for 8-10 levels, and then stop advancing it, which eould make it virtually useless at higher levels for it's primary purpose, turning undead, but still make it just as good for powering various divine feats (such as Domain Spontaneity or Divine Metamagic, which don't take your turning level in account, they just use your turn/day attemps). Is this too much? Now the class grants everything the base cleric class does (same BAB and saves, same (or similar) skills), plus other abilities which are countered solely by missing out on two caster levels. Thoughts?