| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| TheSeventhStooge02-06-08, 05:50 PM | Hey guys, I have a question concerning the kensai's ability to enchant his signature weapon. Let's say that I have a 7th-level fighter/5th-level kensai who has a greatsword that has been enchanted to a +5 weapon without any special abilities (this does not represent my character, but it is part of my question). When I get my next level, then obviously I will be able to enchant it to a "+6" weapon. Here's where my question comes into play: Once a kensai enchants his weapon a certain way, are the abilities of the weapon "locked in" and cannot be changed? Or can the kensai alter his weapon's abilities as long as they remain within the limits of the kensai's level? In other words, using this example, could I take the +5 greatsword and, upon going to 6th level, change it into a +1 Vorpal greatsword? Or a +2 Holy Speed greatsword? Or is the +5 there and cannot be changed under any circumstances? The rules in the book do not state anything that I can use to make a ruling so I don't know. My gamemaster is going to allow me to do this if I want but he is in the same boat as I am; he doesn't know the rule because there is no rule (unless we both missed something). Thanks for your time! TheSeventhStooge... |
| bloodtalon02-06-08, 05:53 PM | i would rule in my game that once you put "+" on something it stays. it makes the player think/plan ahead of time. |
| Sinfire Titan02-06-08, 06:21 PM | You can't change it without retraining, RAW. Retraining is in PH2. |
| Zog_Jakome02-06-08, 06:27 PM | as long as you spend 24 hours praying you can change your weapon to be whatever you want it to be, but there must be at least a +1 enhancement bonus before you can add abilities. |
| Sinfire Titan02-06-08, 06:40 PM | as long as you spend 24 hours praying you can change your weapon to be whatever you want it to be, but there must be at least a +1 enhancement bonus before you can add abilities. Where does it mention that? I know a Soulknife can do that, but Kensai? |
| Zog_Jakome02-06-08, 08:16 PM | Where does it mention that? I know a Soulknife can do that, but Kensai? the signature weapon special ability allows the kensai to choose a weapon and imbue it with his own life force, the process requires 24 hours of quiet uninterupted meditation. if you can't change it then what is the point of using it at first level if you can't change it at later levels. the only problem is the XP costs. OK I didn't mention the XP cost but if you just simply add an ability the xp cost is reduced by what you have on there already. if you change all of the abilities of a weapon as a 5th level kensai you would have to spend 1000 xp, if you have a +4 weapon as a 5th level kensai to increase the power to a +5 you must meditate for 24 hours and spend only 360 xp |
| Sinfire Titan02-06-08, 09:04 PM | the signature weapon special ability allows the kensai to choose a weapon and imbue it with his own life force, the process requires 24 hours of quiet uninterupted meditation. if you can't change it then what is the point of using it at first level if you can't change it at later levels. the only problem is the XP costs. OK I didn't mention the XP cost but if you just simply add an ability the xp cost is reduced by what you have on there already. if you change all of the abilities of a weapon as a 5th level kensai you would have to spend 1000 xp, if you have a +4 weapon as a 5th level kensai to increase the power to a +5 you must meditate for 24 hours and spend only 360 xp Yeah, you can add new ones at higher levels, but you can't change them without changing your chosen weapon. |
| dman1123502-06-08, 09:14 PM | I don't see anything in the description to indicate either direction. I'd allow you to retrain it when you gain a level, but only then. So you would'nt be able to have a +5 weapon one day and then a +1 holy axiomatic another. |
| Zog_Jakome02-07-08, 03:51 PM | Yeah, you can add new ones at higher levels, but you can't change them without changing your chosen weapon. when a signature weapon gets destroyed they can simply reforge it and spend the XP to re-imbue it, why would they not be able to do this if it's not destroyed. then kensais would deliberately get there weapons broken "on accident" to simply re-forge it and spend the time and XP to make it into whatever they want. if they can add more why can't they change the weapon because isn't adding more power to a weapon changing the weapon? but I do agree that this can only be done at or around leveling up. |
| Sinfire Titan02-07-08, 04:30 PM | when a signature weapon gets destroyed they can simply reforge it and spend the XP to re-imbue it, why would they not be able to do this if it's not destroyed. then kensais would deliberately get there weapons broken "on accident" to simply re-forge it and spend the time and XP to make it into whatever they want. if they can add more why can't they change the weapon because isn't adding more power to a weapon changing the weapon? but I do agree that this can only be done at or around leveling up. This would be a house rule. RAW, Kensai have no means of changing their weapon without paying more XP and time, unlike the Soulknife. |
| ToastedAmphibian02-07-08, 08:11 PM | when a signature weapon gets destroyed they can simply reforge it and spend the XP to re-imbue it, why would they not be able to do this if it's not destroyed. then kensais would deliberately get there weapons broken "on accident" to simply re-forge it and spend the time and XP to make it into whatever they want. if they can add more why can't they change the weapon because isn't adding more power to a weapon changing the weapon? but I do agree that this can only be done at or around leveling up. Um, because they are honor bound to their weapon..... It even says in the class description (If memorey serves) that they cannot intentionally discard their weapon without losing their kensai abilites. I think that intentionally BREAKING your damn weapon would also qualify as un-kensai like conduct, resulting in your loss of class abilities. A kensais weapon becomes magical, but only in his hands. The only other exception listed is that he can increase its power through a class abilty rather than through the craft magic arms and armor feat. In all other ways it is treated as a magic weapon. You can add more abilites to a weapon, but you cannot remove or change what is already there. Same reason you cant take a +5 Longsword to your local mage and say "Turn this into a +1 Vorpal Longsword" or take a Holy Longsword and turn it into an Un-Holy Longsword. |
| Zog_Jakome02-08-08, 06:24 AM | This would be a house rule. RAW, Kensai have no means of changing their weapon without paying more XP and time, unlike the Soulknife. I never said the kensai can change their weapon abilities without paying XP. the Kensai can change any enhancement bonus on there weapon into an ability or vice versa by spending the additional XP and time. if you really can't do this then it doesn't matter retraining rules DO allow you to change the normally unchangeable. Um, because they are honor bound to their weapon..... It even says in the class description (If memorey serves) that they cannot intentionally discard their weapon without losing their kensai abilites. I think that intentionally BREAKING your damn weapon would also qualify as un-kensai like conduct, resulting in your loss of class abilities. the "on accident" part was meant to mean that although the kensai would never take a sword and try to break his weapon in half, getting his weapon broken serving his oath is not only kensai like but other kensai would hold him in high regard for making such a sacrifice. so if they can simply re-forge the weapon and re-imbue it why can't they without the destruction of the weapon? You can add more abilites to a weapon, but you cannot remove or change what is already there. Same reason you cant take a +5 Longsword to your local mage and say "Turn this into a +1 Vorpal Longsword" or take a Holy Longsword and turn it into an Un-Holy Longsword. where does it say that you cannot change the weapon? I have done that several times I was given a +3 weapon by a high level wizard and actually wanted a +2 keen weapon. what might have actually happened was that they simply exchanged the weapon (gave me full price for selling the weapon) I am so adamant about this is because one of my players is a 5th level kensai and a while ago he got his weapon changed from a +1 flaming shock weapon to a +1 Holy sonic weapon when he got to 4th level. he paid the time and XP cost. I didn't see anything wrong with it. |
| JaronK02-08-08, 07:47 AM | Well, it's wrong, whether you like that fact or not. Kensais cannot just change their weapon. JaronK |
| dman1123502-08-08, 11:57 AM | While true RAW does not allow the changing of a signature weapon, I would allow it, as I said. It just does not seem like a large boost in power at all. In fact, it doesn't seem to boost power any significant amount. Without this, the player will have to not use the enhancement for a level in order to get a +2 enhancement. It just doesn't seem right, you aren't allowed to use your class features for a level to get a +2 enchantment on your weapon. |
| Zog_Jakome02-08-08, 01:37 PM | Well, it's wrong, whether you like that fact or not. Kensais cannot just change their weapon. JaronK like I said they can under retraining rules, under retraining rules anything is possible, in fact I never liked the idea that you can't change anything about your character, feat selection, spell selection, skill selection, weapon selection, even race or class/class feature selections. and retraining is as legal as all those splat books out there so you can't say it isn't legal. |
| JaronK02-08-08, 06:35 PM | While true RAW does not allow the changing of a signature weapon, I would allow it, as I said. It just does not seem like a large boost in power at all. In fact, it doesn't seem to boost power any significant amount. Without this, the player will have to not use the enhancement for a level in order to get a +2 enhancement. It just doesn't seem right, you aren't allowed to use your class features for a level to get a +2 enchantment on your weapon. Consider Bane Weapons before you allow that. They could be about to deal with a necromancer, and switch the weapon to Bane Undead. Then when it they're going after Orcs, they switch to Bane Orcs. JaronK |
| JaronK02-08-08, 06:36 PM | Retraining requires whole quests and whatnot... you can't just meditate and shift it. And I thought it pretty much just applied to feats? JaronK |
| dman1123502-08-08, 06:46 PM | That's why I said only at the level up in my previous post. Honestly can you find anything unbalancing by letting them retrain their weapon every time they level? I do think that changing it every day can be unbalancing, but not every level. |
| JaronK02-08-08, 08:32 PM | That's why I said only at the level up in my previous post. Honestly can you find anything unbalancing by letting them retrain their weapon every time they level? I do think that changing it every day can be unbalancing, but not every level. As long as you make them go through the necessary work, it shouldn't be too bad. Every day would be bad. Every level... not so much. JaronK |
| dman1123502-08-08, 09:55 PM | Exactly. |
| Zog_Jakome02-09-08, 01:04 AM | Retraining requires whole quests and whatnot... you can't just meditate and shift it. And I thought it pretty much just applied to feats? JaronK it's up to the DM, the retraining rules in PHB2 offer a guide line, however one thing they strongly recommend is the retraining only be allowed to be done at level up and I 100% agree so when a kensai meditates for 24 hours to improve their weapon they can change it if they want. I went on my own quest to transfer my warmage fighter to an all out cleric/radiant servant. I consider the meditation a quest of their own. in fact when the change is huge (like classes, races, ability points) they call it rebuilding and that is what requires a quest, however IIRC things like skills, feats, and class features can simply spend some time to be retrained. |
| TheSeventhStooge02-12-08, 03:28 PM | Thanks for the help, guys. I talked to my GM about the options you have discussed here and he basically said that as long as I do so upon level-up, he won't have a problem with changing abilities within the sword. He MAY make me pay an XP penalty to do so, but he has not yet stated whether he will or not; no big deal if he does. Now I am wondering, given what there is available to imbue a weapon with, if Vorpal is a good way to go- On the plus side, my Kensai has Whirlwind attack, so if I were to have a Vorpal sword I have a 5% chance of possibly knocking out several opponents at one time. Plus, simply having a 5% chance of rolling for an instant kill is pretty cool. On the minus side, the Vorpal only comes into play 5% of the time. But if I had other powers like Holy, Bane, etc., those will come into play far more often, especially given the adventure we are playing (Demonweb Pits). Anyone in here have any opinions about that? TheSeventhStooge... |
| dman1123502-12-08, 03:45 PM | Vorpal is not worth it usually. It just costs too much. What I'd do is this: +1 transmuting (a must), collision, either vampiric or bodyfeeding (your choice: do you crit a lot? If so bodyfeeding), Blessed (since you will be going against evil a lot, and especially if you have a large threat range), Wounding, Sacred/Sacred Burst (are you going against evil outsiders nearly exclusively?)and Bane/Fiercebane (same question), and Speed. A lot of these are nice, though the sacred/bane ones depend on if you go exclusively evil outsiders. If not, others are better, particularly wounding, speed, and collision. Blessed is also great against evil. |
| TheSeventhStooge02-12-08, 07:46 PM | Vorpal is not worth it usually. It just costs too much. What I'd do is this: +1 transmuting (a must), collision, either vampiric or bodyfeeding (your choice: do you crit a lot? If so bodyfeeding), Blessed (since you will be going against evil a lot, and especially if you have a large threat range), Wounding, Sacred/Sacred Burst (are you going against evil outsiders nearly exclusively?)and Bane/Fiercebane (same question), and Speed. A lot of these are nice, though the sacred/bane ones depend on if you go exclusively evil outsiders. If not, others are better, particularly wounding, speed, and collision. Blessed is also great against evil. I am familiar with many of these but not with some. What does transmuting do? Blessed I am assuming is Holy, and I have that already (very nice to have in a game against demons and drow!). Could you tell me what Sacred or Sacred Burst is, and the difference between Bane/Fiercebane? Or if you want you could direct me to the correct book (my group has a bunch of them and I might be able to look them up assuming that we have it). Speed is one I am seriously considereing as well; to have that extra attack at all times would be nice when going against bosses. I am thinking that Vorpal is not as worth it as I thought, especially with all the others that I can put on the sword. Thanks, TheSeventhStooge... |
| dman1123502-12-08, 10:42 PM | The ones you are not familiar with are in the MiC. Transmuting is basically an all out ignore DR enchantment, and sacred/sacred burst are basically evil outsider and undead bane (as one), but better. Fierce bane is basically bane burst. Vampiric heals you, and blessed lets you cast Bless Weapon, but I just reread it, and it's quite terrible compared to others. Never mind about it (it only works 3 rounds/day). The rest are in the SRD. |
| TheSeventhStooge02-13-08, 12:48 PM | I'll see if our group has those books and if they do I'll definitely consider them instead of my original line of thinking. One other option I was considering is going for at least a +4 Bane (evil outsiders) weapon, because if we end up facing Lolth (which I think the adventure has us doing), then my weapon would be a +6 weapon against her and therefore count as an Epic weapon. The biggest problem with that, however, is that would be Metagaming (my character doesn't KNOW that we will be facing Lolth, although I do). So I may not go that way. The additional damage from the various enchantments seem to be the way to go. Thanks again! TheSeventhStooge... |
| dman1123502-13-08, 01:49 PM | Transmuting takes care of the DR aspect. Depending on how you read it, a Trnsmuting weapon can even overcome DR x/-. Also, Warning and Eager can be useful: they both give boosts to initiative. They are in the MiC. |
| TheSeventhStooge02-13-08, 02:21 PM | Hey, I don't mean to sound ignorant (because I am...) but I haven't been playing 3.5 for all that long and I am not real clear on the abbreviations. Could you tell me what MiC and SRD are, or direct me to a thread that has all the abbreviations so you don't have to waste time typing? I just can't put 2+2 together here. Sorry. Thanks! TheSeventhStooge... |
| dman1123502-13-08, 02:26 PM | Find yourself the Dictionary of Terms, located in my sig. And the SRD is linked in my sig. It's under "SRD". For System Reference Document. EDIT: the SRD has the PHB, DMG, MMI, UA, ELH, and XPH in it, at least, most of those books. And a little from some others. |
| Zog_Jakome02-14-08, 04:48 AM | wow yeah that wasn't confusing SRD= system reference document PHB= player's handbook DMG= dungeon master's guide ELH=Epic level handbook XPH= Expanded psionics handbook UA= Unearther arcana MMI= Monster Manual 1 MIC= Magic Item Compendium go Here (http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&Acronym=iirc&Find=Find) for abbreviation search. |
| dman1123502-14-08, 01:01 PM | Like I said, Dictionary of Terms in my sig. It will answer all of those. But Zog already did, so I guess you just put it away for later. |
| Shular02-14-08, 01:59 PM | I'm really not sure what the big deal of changing the enchantments on the signature weapon is. It takes 24 hours, and costs experience. If the character were doing this every day (well, every two days if he wants to get a day of adventuring done in between) then he's spending a boatload of experience. After all, taking a +5 weapon and changing it to a +1 Holy, Keen, Mage-bane would be the equivalent of imbuing a +1 up to "+5" since the plusses over one are not included in the altered weapon. I also think it makes sense fluffwise. When a Kensai fulfills his oath, and takes a new one, the nature of that oath might necessitate a change. For example, let's say the first oath was to escort a prince safely to another city (in which case a general +5 would be practical, since you don't know what you're going to run into) and the new oath was to slay a dragon that's been terrorizing the countryside. It would make sense to at least change one of the plusses to dragonbane. |
| dman1123502-14-08, 02:11 PM | The thing is it doesn't cost experience to change your weapon. You aren't even expressly allowed to change your weapon. It doesn't not cost xp either. |
| Zog_Jakome02-15-08, 03:09 AM | Like I said, Dictionary of Terms in my sig. It will answer all of those. But Zog already did, so I guess you just put it away for later. for some reason your sig is not showing on this thread.(at least to me) I saw it on other threads after I made the reply. so you can imagine how confused I was when you said to look for something in your sig and your sig wasn't there. The thing is it doesn't cost experience to change your weapon. You aren't even expressly allowed to change your weapon. It doesn't not cost xp either. I asked customer service about the issue and they said if the DM allows it it is perfectly allowed. I would say yes but they need to spend the time and XP to change their weapon and if they don't have a problem doing that then I don't see a problem nor a huge difference in power. |
| dman1123502-15-08, 02:18 PM | Here's a hint: don't ask CustServ. They tend to cause problems, and answers from them are sometimes competely wrong, and even contradict each other, even if you copy/paste the same question. Another hint: sigs only show up on the first post a person makes on any given page. And you could always go to their profile. |
| Sinfire Titan02-15-08, 03:10 PM | Here's a hint: don't ask CustServ. They tend to cause problems, and answers from them are sometimes competely wrong, and even contradict each other, even if you copy/paste the same question. Another hint: sigs only show up on the first post a person makes on any given page. And you could always go to their profile. Yes. And it only does this if the person has that option set in their profile. Mine shows most of the time. |
| dman1123502-15-08, 03:16 PM | How do you do that? I didn't know you could change that. |
| Kapalen02-15-08, 03:23 PM | As long as you make them go through the necessary work, it shouldn't be too bad. Every day would be bad. Every level... not so much. JaronK I don't see it as unbalanced. If the kensai wants to spend 1800 (or whatever) xp everyday to be able to have bane enemy of the day, how is that different than a wizard using xp to scribe scrolls of bane whatever? |
| dman1123502-15-08, 03:25 PM | Because it doesn't cost experience to just change it. You pay the difference, an since the difference is 0, there's nothing to pay. |
| Zog_Jakome02-16-08, 03:34 AM | Because it doesn't cost experience to just change it. You pay the difference, an since the difference is 0, there's nothing to pay. exactly but you can make him pay the XP for the number of bonuses changed so changeing a +5 longsword to a +2 holy keen would cost 360 XP or you can charge the number of XP the sword is being changed to since it is being changed to a +5 sword (whether it was +5 before or not) it would cost 1000 XP I would go with the latter for obvious reasons. and I also have this to say holy crap I didn't know it only shows up once, other forums I go to the sig shows everytime... and about custserv, I feel that they are more official than these forums and for questions I will go to them. I.t's better than debating for weeks on end here. |
| dman1123502-16-08, 04:27 PM | Yeah but the thing is that most of the people here actually know what they're talking about. Especially (generally) the people who have been on the forums for a while. By generally I mean that there are some people who have been here for a while, but don't do much of anything. Technically CustServ is official. But half the time they are wrong, and sometimes even contradict each other. You'd be as well off just flipping a coin. |
| Sinfire Titan02-16-08, 04:45 PM | How do you do that? I didn't know you could change that. Well, editing your post causes it to display automatically, but it is in the Profile options. |
| dman1123502-16-08, 04:53 PM | Found it. About one minute after I posted. Turns out a lot can be found if you just look for it. |
| teshen02-17-08, 01:35 PM | . . . Turns out a lot can be found if you just look for it.Wise words. |
| Zog_Jakome02-18-08, 04:25 AM | Yeah but the thing is that most of the people here actually know what they're talking about. Especially (generally) the people who have been on the forums for a while. By generally I mean that there are some people who have been here for a while, but don't do much of anything. Technically CustServ is official. But half the time they are wrong, and sometimes even contradict each other. You'd be as well off just flipping a coin. you would think that the ones who work for the guys that designed the game would know more than anyone about this game. wizards designed the game, there is no denying that unless they lied to us. I got most of my questions answered. everytime I asked a question on here I get pretty much the same thing, but when I ask a question on custserv there is one voice speaking to me and who cares if that voice is right or wrong, it is what wizards says and thus if I don't agree with wizards its a house rule. that's the beauty of the game. for me what custserv says is correct no matter what anyone says on these forums, because they designed the game. I don't care if every single person says one thing on these forums, if custserv says something else then ok, they designed the game, it's their rules whether you believe it is wrong or not. |
| Legdiwena02-18-08, 01:36 PM | Answers from Cust Serv can also be pre-biased, based on how the question is worded. |
| TheSeventhStooge02-18-08, 02:14 PM | Wow, I am gone for a couple of days and my thread turned from talking about the Kensai to customer service. It's a beautiful thing! To answer an earlier post, I was under the impression that the Kensai oath was not a "one-time mission" like escorting this guy from point a to point b but instead was, for a lack of better way to put it, a "life-time" oath or an ideal or someone you serve. I wrote out a storyline for my character and his oath is opposing involuntary slavery and the oppression of the weak and downtrodden (it's more detailed than that, but I showed what I had written down to my GM and he liked it quite a bit, plus he said it will be appropriate at times in the Demonweb Pit adventure). Also, I did have one more question to ask- When I read the DM Guide, it said that a weapon cannot have a total bonus between enchantments and enhancements more than +10. Also, the enchantment bonus cannot be higher than +5 (if I have the terminology wrong here, I apologize). Here's my question: Can you have a weapon that has enhancements that total more than +5? In other words, can you make a sword that is a +1 Holy Vorpal Keen (which would be +8, with +7 in enhancements)? Or are you limited to +5 there? Thanks! TheSeventhStooge... |
| StruckingFuggle02-18-08, 02:33 PM | for me what custserv says is correct no matter what anyone says on these forums, because they designed the game. So ... what do you do/say when custserv contradicts itself? Also, I did have one more question to ask- When I read the DM Guide, it said that a weapon cannot have a total bonus between enchantments and enhancements more than +10. Also, the enchantment bonus cannot be higher than +5 (if I have the terminology wrong here, I apologize). Here's my question: Can you have a weapon that has enhancements that total more than +5? In other words, can you make a sword that is a +1 Holy Vorpal Keen (which would be +8, with +7 in enhancements)? Or are you limited to +5 there? Technically, things like "Vorpal" and "Keen" aren't 'enhancements', they're 'Special Abilities'. The enhancements are the +1-+5 to attack and damage; 'Special Abilities' have a functional market value of being 'priced as' a +X enhancement bonus. The actual enhancement bonus can't exceed +5; but the Special Abilities are under no such restrictions, so yes, you could have your +1 Holy Vorpal Keen Weapon. |
| TheSeventhStooge02-18-08, 04:09 PM | So ... what do you do/say when custserv contradicts itself? Technically, things like "Vorpal" and "Keen" aren't 'enhancements', they're 'Special Abilities'. The enhancements are the +1-+5 to attack and damage; 'Special Abilities' have a functional market value of being 'priced as' a +X enhancement bonus. The actual enhancement bonus can't exceed +5; but the Special Abilities are under no such restrictions, so yes, you could have your +1 Holy Vorpal Keen Weapon. I figured I had the terminology wrong here; thanks for the correction. And thanks for the answer. Now that I know that I think I know what path to take on my weapon. We'll see if it works; the only thing that may be a downer is that we may only go to level 15 before we stop, but even so he should be a pretty good swordswinger. Thanks! TheSeventhStooge... |
| StruckingFuggle02-18-08, 06:55 PM | I figured I had the terminology wrong here; thanks for the correction. Heh. You're welcome. And it's tricky ... Sometimes I catch myself referring to the special abilities as enhancements (or even enchantments), too. It could have been better explained, too - I admit, I had to check the SRD quickly to back myself up on it. If +1 Holy Vorpal Keen is your plan, Holy and Keen are pretty good, but all things considered your extra +5 could usually be spent on better things than Vorpal. I mean, if it's what you want to do, more power to ya; it's just a (generally) not very effective special ability. |
| dman1123502-18-08, 07:47 PM | Heck, even Holy can be done better. Wounding, Transmuting, and Collision are three of the best melee weapon special abilities IMO. And then Bodyfeeding is another good one, along with Vampiric so the healer doesn't have to work as hard. It's not much healing, but it's some. And some extra damage. |
| Zog_Jakome02-19-08, 05:05 AM | So ... what do you do/say when custserv contradicts itself? I don't give them a chance to contradict themselves, I ask a question once and it gets answered. Or if I do ask a question twice I will probably go for the most recent answer. and many times they answer a question much faster than the forums. |
| JaronK02-19-08, 05:57 AM | for me what custserv says is correct no matter what anyone says on these forums, because they designed the game. I don't care if every single person says one thing on these forums, if custserv says something else then ok, they designed the game, it's their rules whether you believe it is wrong or not. You seem to be under the mistake impression that CustServ is the same department as the Designers... this is false. The CustServ people are not the people who design the game at all... it's a whole different area of the company. JaronK |
| Legdiwena02-19-08, 12:23 PM | There is a limit, total enhancement and special abilities can't exceed +10 pre-epic. You seem to be under the mistake impression that CustServ is the same department as the Designers... this is false. The CustServ people are not the people who design the game at all... it's a whole different area of the company. I think he meant since they are part of WotC as a whole. |
| StruckingFuggle02-19-08, 12:30 PM | I don't give them a chance to contradict themselves, I ask a question once and it gets answered. Or if I do ask a question twice I will probably go for the most recent answer. and many times they answer a question much faster than the forums. So, what if I take your exact question, ask it, get a different answer to the same question, still from custserv, and share it with you? How do you decide which one is a more valid answer? And this inconstancy doesn't bother you? |
| TheSeventhStooge02-19-08, 12:56 PM | Heh. You're welcome. And it's tricky ... Sometimes I catch myself referring to the special abilities as enhancements (or even enchantments), too. It could have been better explained, too - I admit, I had to check the SRD quickly to back myself up on it. If +1 Holy Vorpal Keen is your plan, Holy and Keen are pretty good, but all things considered your extra +5 could usually be spent on better things than Vorpal. I mean, if it's what you want to do, more power to ya; it's just a (generally) not very effective special ability. The more I thought about it, the more I concluded that Vorpal is not really worth the +5 enhancement. Like you and the others have said, I could spend those +5 on several different abilities that will be there all the time instead of only on a natural 20 (which doesn't happen often, duh). So far my greatsword is an adamantine +1 Holy (currently, my character is a 6th Fighter/1st Sorcerer/3rd Kensai). I am leaning towards getting Bane (evil outsiders) at 4th level, Holy Surge at 5th level and Mage Bane at 6th level. But the other abilities that I have seen are looking pretty tempting. Vampiric Touch would be a good one; in effect it is a 2d6 swing (1d6 damage, 1d6 healing). The more I am looking at Transmuting the more I am liking it. The problem, of course, is that I only have +9 to do all I want with this weapon (and that's assuming that our characters will last that long; like I said on a previous post I don't know if we will have the chance to get to 20th level or not in this series of adventures. We didn't in the Savage Tide game and that ticked me off to Dungeon Magazine a bit). I am also planning on purchasing the Vanishing ability for 8,000 gp; that would be a great one for either getting out of sticky situations or putting myself in a position to get some better strikes one time per day. I have a lot of options and will be checking every one of them to try to make a really good sword. But I realize that it will strongly depend on how the course of the game goes; if we don't face a lot of wizards than Mage Bane will not be a good one, for example.. I'll keep you posted on how it goes. By the way, with the Wounding special ability, does the damage from each swing stack? I don't remember reading one way or the other, but it has been a while since I read it. If it does stack, that will be worth checking out too, in my opinion. Thanks! TheSeventhStooge... |
| StruckingFuggle02-19-08, 01:01 PM | I have a lot of options and will be checking every one of them to try to make a really good sword. But I realize that it will strongly depend on how the course of the game goes; if we don't face a lot of wizards than Mage Bane will not be a good one, for example.. I'll keep you posted on how it goes. Out of curiosity, since I don't recall that ability, how is "Mage" defined for Mage Bane? By the way, with the Wounding special ability, does the damage from each swing stack? I don't remember reading one way or the other, but it has been a while since I read it. If it does stack, that will be worth checking out too, in my opinion. Yes. It's a rather neat and fun ability, when it works - every two hits functionally deal extra damage equal to their hit die. :) (and reduce their fort save by 1!) |
| dman1123502-19-08, 01:02 PM | Bane isn't worth it unless you are in a campaign that features almost exclusively that type of monster. For +1 more, you can ignore all DR (including DR/-), which can easily add up to more damage than the bane. Also, collision is a solid +5 damage, which will get multiplied on a crit. Holy has the same problem as bane. And on wounding: yes. It's ability damage, not a penalty. |
| StruckingFuggle02-19-08, 01:05 PM | Now, if you're fighting a lot of evil outsiders, Holy Bane(Evil Outsiders) is a decent deal. And arguably, if it's more specific (Abyss vs. Baator), you can (arguably, it's about even, in my experience, which way DMs will rule) slap Bane(Lawful or Chaotic Outsiders) on top of it for more pain (but then it's also another even split, among those who let them stack, if it's a +4 bonus or still +2). |
| dman1123502-19-08, 01:09 PM | Yes, Strucking, then bane is a GOOD idea. |
| TheSeventhStooge02-19-08, 01:10 PM | Just about every monster we have fought so far has been of evil alignment, so I am going to keep Holy on the weapon. The book actually doesn't say "mage," it says anything that is capable of casting arcane spells or using invocations. Against such the weapon gets a +2 to hit and damage and deals out an extra 2d6. The question will be how often I will get to fight those kind of monsters, but of course there is no way to predict it. You have me convinced on Transmuting. At 5th level it's going on. The more I have read about it the more I can see your point on that. I will definitely have to consider Wounding too. So many choices, so little time... Thanks! TheSeventhStooge... |
| Legdiwena02-19-08, 01:20 PM | What can bypass DR/-? I thought the point was that nothing could bypass it. Does mage bane include those with SLA of arcane spells? |
| dman1123502-19-08, 01:29 PM | Hey, it says that it takes the properties to overcome the DR. So against DR/- it takes on the properties of nothing, without being nothing. Though cases could be easily made for the other side. Also though, there is another +2 special ability that does overcome DR/- no question: Force. It can only be applied to bows, but there isn't the waiting period to attune it to the DR. So I don't really think it overpowered to rule it this way when compared to that. |
| TheSeventhStooge02-19-08, 01:30 PM | What can bypass DR/-? I thought the point was that nothing could bypass it. Does mage bane include those with SLA of arcane spells? That may be the reason why I believe it costs +2 to add that to your weapon. Being able to go through any damage reduction would be quite potent, IMO. As for mage bane, I have no idea. It simply says that if the enemy is capable of casting arcane spells or using invocations, then Mage Bane comes into effect. Don't know how that works; maybe it is the purview of the DM. TheSeventhStooge... |
| StruckingFuggle02-19-08, 02:14 PM | Heh. You said it's good if you're fighting just one enemy - I wanted to stress that in that case it's really good, the way you stressed the condition. :P Huh. When I wrote that post, I missed the third page of replies. So edit/addition: 'Mage', in that case, applies to a huge number of high-level threats, including not only wizards but all dragons of your level and (IIRC) most high-level demons and devils. It's a good thing, one of (IMO) the best "Bane"s in the game. :) (what's it from?) |
| Zog_Jakome02-20-08, 04:48 AM | yes I knew that it's not the designers who answer our questions I was talking about wizards of the coast as a whole they are the company that made the rules thus anyone who works for that company *should know the rules better than most of us. *should meaning if they were properly trained and/or understand what the designers were getting at. besides nothing stops them from walking down the hall to ask a designer. we can't do that very easily. assuming they work at the same building/ during the same hours etc. I had a funny feeling that someone would ask me what I would do if someone else told me what custserv told them. I would simply go by what custserv told me. I have been in a support environment before. If it's the same a group of these support technicians sit around on computers all day answering everyone's questions. from the questionaire they had me fill out there seems to be about 15 of them working there. If a really hard question comes up they would debate about it and try to come up with a solution. In my environment we had to be masters of the product and everyone around us were there to help us in matters we don't understand. Of course I am talking about support for programming things, a little more difficult than what these guys go through. There were computer books in the office I was at; I would imagine each support guy has a very large shelf next to him with all of the books that wizards has ever made. Judging by the size of the staff there are 2-3 rooms holding about 5-7 people each. I actually wish I could work there it would be awesome working and getting paid to do what I REALLY love to do. So in my experience of being in support I don't know why they would contradict themselves but several times someone would answer a question he is sure about while someone else would answer the same question and be sure about a different question. it would never come up and thus you have the dilemma. it may come up in an office conversation later and that is when it will be resolved. OP... the topic changed to about custserv because I told you what they told me, in that it is up to the DM whether or not they can switch the powers of their weapon and me as a dm says its fine as long as the pay the time and xp equal to what it would cost to get it to a +x weapon anyway. |
| TheSeventhStooge02-20-08, 01:46 PM | Heh. You said it's good if you're fighting just one enemy - I wanted to stress that in that case it's really good, the way you stressed the condition. :P Huh. When I wrote that post, I missed the third page of replies. So edit/addition: 'Mage', in that case, applies to a huge number of high-level threats, including not only wizards but all dragons of your level and (IIRC) most high-level demons and devils. It's a good thing, one of (IMO) the best "Bane"s in the game. :) (what's it from?) You can read the description of Mage Bane in the Magic Item Compendium. Like I said, I may have described it wrong so you are better off checking it out for yourself. So many abilities to choose from, so little room to put them on... TheSeventhStooge... |