Abiurant champion and abiurant armor ability [Archive] - Wizards Community

Abiurant champion and abiurant armor ability [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
spikevampire
07-09-07, 11:20 AM The abiurant armor ability said that every abiuration spell that provide a bonus to CA or a shield bonus is increased by abiurant champion level. After he said that abiurant chapion use it with magic armor, but magic armor is a conjuration spell... in the example he have the spell casted on it improved by the ablity. I think is a mistake and i not know where to post it to suggest an errata.

and also if a lv 10 abiurant champion (epic) cast a shield spell its bonus increase to +14?^?
RobbyPants
07-09-07, 12:34 PM The abiurant armor ability said that every abiuration spell that provide a bonus to CA or a shield bonus is increased by abiurant champion level. After he said that abiurant chapion use it with magic armor, but magic armor is a conjuration spell... in the example he have the spell casted on it improved by the ablity. I think is a mistake and i not know where to post it to suggest an errata.
So far as I know, the mistake lies in the class description that says "spells like shield and mage armor". As you noted, mage armor is a conjuration spell. The text (for the ability description) is the primary source on this matter, and as to date, there is no errata.

Although, I wouldn't worry too much about it. With full casting, full BAB, and a slew of other abilities (not to mention easy entry requirements), this is probably the best gish class from WotC, even without boosting mage armor. ;)

and also if a lv 10 abiurant champion (epic) cast a shield spell its bonus increase to +14?^?
In theory, yes.
DogBackward
07-09-07, 12:41 PM Actually, 5-level Prestige Classes aren't allowed to go Epic. So, if you take 5 levels of Abjurant Champion, those are the only 5 levels you'll ever get.
spikevampire
07-09-07, 01:19 PM i also think it is the best class for a warrior / mage, but is really that a 5 level class couldn't be epic??? where i can find that rule? i really don't know about it.
DogBackward
07-09-07, 01:39 PM It was in the 3.0 Epic Level Handbook. The idea was that if you've only got 5 levels in a class (Abjurant Champion, for example), you really can't consider yourself an Abjurant Champion, you're still just a Wizard/Fighter (or whatever).

But really, it's because 5 level classes don't have a long enough period to establish reliable progression rates. How can you be sure that ability's supposed to be 1/3 levels, when there isn't a 6th level to check?

That limitation may have been removed for 3.5, though, I haven't checked the DMG for it. Gimme a second...

DMG pg206:
"You cannot advance the class level of a class with fewer than 10 levels beyond the maximum described for that class, regardless of the character level of the advancing character."
spikevampire
07-09-07, 04:23 PM ok if you want you can private message me if you know other, i have to tell you i am agree with you because epic class is a devotion in a class, 5 level is not a devotion but an year of story, or if you want a Power Player degree from the normal advancement in a class :P
spikevampire
07-09-07, 04:33 PM hey man you're right isn't possible to be an epic abiurant champion!!! read in cap 6 of the dungeon master, in the introduction of the epic character
Twylyght
07-09-07, 05:31 PM Lol... isn't Shield the ONLY abjuration that grants a armor or shield bonus? the Protection spells grant a deflection so they are a no go.

**Edit and repelling shield!!! whoohooo *rolls eyes**
spikevampire
07-09-07, 06:13 PM yes i found the same problem... so i only improve shield... don't worry isn't so overpowered this class fortunately
DogBackward
07-09-07, 07:08 PM Yeah, I was actually a little crestfallen when I was looking over the AC, myself. I had a nice Battle Sorceror/Abjurant Champion planned out, with Shield, Deflect, Protection from (Alignment), and all those cool spells lined up. Then I noticed the "Armor and Shield bonuses only" part.

I'm all sad now...
spikevampire
07-09-07, 07:55 PM :weep: i am sad with you...
RobbyPants
07-10-07, 09:37 AM Don't worry too much about it. +9 Shield bonus to AC is pretty nice. If you want to boost your armor bonus, just throw in a level of Spell Sword (+1 BAB and caster level). You should be able to meet the requirements if you can be an Abjurant Champion.

This first level gives you ignore arcane spell failure 10%. You could then get a suit of twilight mithril breatplate. Because of the minimum +1 enchantment to add twilight, you could get at least a +6 boost to your AC with no arcane spell failure. This would only cost 8,200 gp.

Again, this single level dip costs you nothing, as both your BAB and caster level increase. :)
The_Shaman
07-10-07, 10:09 AM Yeah, I was actually a little crestfallen when I was looking over the AC, myself. I had a nice Battle Sorceror/Abjurant Champion planned out, with Shield, Deflect, Protection from (Alignment), and all those cool spells lined up. Then I noticed the "Armor and Shield bonuses only" part.

I'm all sad now...

Hey, come on. A battlesorcerer can already cast in light armor. Get that feat that allows you to cast in medium and join the mithral full plate crowd :D It is definitely a great combo, though.
spikevampire
07-10-07, 12:17 PM nice 1 level of spellsword...
0datdude0
07-10-07, 12:50 PM where is this battle sorc class I keep hearing about?
RobbyPants
07-10-07, 12:55 PM where is this battle sorc class I keep hearing about?
It's an Unearthed Arcana variant which can also be found here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererVari antBattleSorcerer) in the SRD.

The basic idea is that you sacrifice one spell per day and one spell known for every spell level (to a minimum of one, each) and Bluff, to gain:

d8 hit dice
3/4 BAB progression
Intimidate as a class skill
One light or one-handed martial weapon proficiency
Light armor proficiency
The ability to cast in light armor without ASF
Twylyght
07-10-07, 03:28 PM well with battle sorc, couldnt you add the battle caster feat and have no ASF in mithril full plate?

TANK MAGE!
RobbyPants
07-10-07, 04:01 PM well with battle sorc, couldnt you add the battle caster feat and have no ASF in mithril full plate?

TANK MAGE!
Yes you could. The only thing is you either need to blow another feat on medium armor proficiency (and in some games, another yet on heavy armor proficiency) or level dip into a class with better armor. Battle Caster allows you to cast in said armor, but won't make you proficient.

This is precicely why I like the Paladin 2/Battle Sorcerer 18 build. It's not the most potent gish around, but it's simple, gets 9th level spells, can cast in mithril full plate, and it adds its primary casting stat mod to all saving throws!
Twylyght
07-10-07, 05:49 PM Yes you could. The only thing is you either need to blow another feat on medium armor proficiency (and in some games, another yet on heavy armor proficiency) or level dip into a class with better armor. Battle Caster allows you to cast in said armor, but won't make you proficient.

This is precicely why I like the Paladin 2/Battle Sorcerer 18 build. It's not the most potent gish around, but it's simple, gets 9th level spells, can cast in mithril full plate, and it adds its primary casting stat mod to all saving throws!

Hmm... i like that. How about a Battle Sor 13/Pal 2/Abjurant champion 5.
You get that CHA to saves, the same casting ability, and +9 ac from the shield spell, and heck able to cast an extended abjuration spell as a swift action is nothing to sneeze at. Protection from evil at will? yes please! Arcane boost is pretty solid too in the right situations.

Failing to be lawful/good you could opt for a level of Favored Soul. No cha to save, but you get +2 to all 3, a splash of divine spells, CHA casting, medium armor, and likely another weapon prof. Granted the saves on those spells are WIS based but if you take non attack spells its a non issue.
DogBackward
07-10-07, 06:25 PM I'm actually rather fond of my "Human Monk 3/Sorceror 2/Paladin 3/Abjurant Champion 5/Enlightened Fist 6/Pious Templar 1" idea myself. It's not the most powerful with spells, but most of my Swift-action buffs are low level, and Aescetic Mage combined with Paladin and Monk makes my Cha really work for me. Not to mention the idea of a two-weapon fighting flurrying quarterstaff monk/mage with Wraithstrike, Arcane Strike and Power Attack.

Yeah, it's kinda power-gamey and all, but it's meant as a fun mental exercise, not something to actually play... unless it's a hack 'n' slash, of course. And hey, if your Dm's lax on alignment (like many in hack 'n' slash games), replace three Enlightened Fist levels with three Hexblade levels for the ultimate spell-resistant PC. Does it allow a save? Nope, sorry, nothin' happens.

x2 Cha to spell-based saves together with Evasion and Mettle... a lovely sight to behold. Not to mention the save boosts of the Monk and the AC's ability to increase saves with spell slots. This is definitely a nova-stylke build, though. If you want to use your full melee potential, you'll burn through spell slots like nothin' else.
spikevampire
07-11-07, 06:39 AM :confused: nguuuuuul...
RobbyPants
07-11-07, 09:34 AM Hmm... i like that. How about a Battle Sor 13/Pal 2/Abjurant champion 5.
That's actually not a bad idea. I didn't really consider the idea of PrCs for that build, and the typical Eldritch Knight and Spellsword classes would just slow you down for no real gain. Abjurant Champion on the other hand...

:confused: nguuuuuul...
Did we get too off topic? ;) I'm perfectly willing to steer this back to the abjurant champion.
Apocolypse_77
07-11-07, 12:37 PM isn't "greater mage armor" which is a spell from either complete arcane, or complete mage (can't remeber which) an abjuration spell? i know it provides 6 AC instead of 4, just not sure of the spell school.
spikevampire
07-11-07, 06:33 PM i ceck it it is a conjuration spell...
0datdude0
07-11-07, 06:49 PM Their is an abjuration armor spell in the book of viel goodness if I remember correctly.
Luminosity
07-11-07, 08:31 PM I know it's not what you're looking for, but it might be good to note that Ectoplasmic Armor grants an armor bonus against incoporeal touch attacks.

How do you Gish types handle the fact that your hands are usually full? Girallon's Blessing?
0datdude0
07-11-07, 09:11 PM AC lets you make gesturs for spells with your sword its all good
Luminosity
07-11-07, 10:04 PM AC lets you make gesturs for spells with your sword its all good

If by AC you mean Abjurant Champion, I don't see that in the entry.
Luminosity
07-13-07, 01:55 AM How do you Gish types handle the fact that your hands are usually full? Girallon's Blessing?

Does anyone have an opinion on this?
Jungingen
07-13-07, 03:03 AM Does anyone have an opinion on this?

I use a greatsword. If a bunch of archetypal geezers can sling spells while clutching their staves, I can cast while holding my giant shank.

Shields seem a bit more problematic, but a gish who actually bothers to hold his shield personally is probably an idiot anyway.

Especially if he's an AC.
RobbyPants
07-13-07, 11:02 AM I use a greatsword. If a bunch of archetypal geezers can sling spells while clutching their staves, I can cast while holding my giant shank.

Shields seem a bit more problematic, but a gish who actually bothers to hold his shield personally is probably an idiot anyway.

Especially if he's an AC.
Agreed.

I'd suggest a good two-handed weapon. I'd rule that you can hold it with one hand while casting with the other. I just don't think you'd be counted as armed for AoOs during that round.

If I did use a shield, I wouldn't use a heavy shield. Either a buckler or light shield is nice because you have the other hand free for holding things.

Of course, as Jungingen suggested, a gish probably doesn't need to hold his shield. By the level when you get your PrCs, you can probably afford an animated shield.
Luminosity
07-13-07, 11:52 AM I suppose you could use a zweihander, but to me ADs seem like a bigger threat if they're dual-wielding in order to take advantage of Spell Storing weapons with silly spells like Twinned Poison.

Quarterstaff maybe, or zweihand with armor spikes.
Twylyght
07-13-07, 04:23 PM I suppose you could use a zweihander, but to me ADs seem like a bigger threat if they're dual-wielding in order to take advantage of Spell Storing weapons with silly spells like Twinned Poison.

Quarterstaff maybe, or zweihand with armor spikes.

I think smiting spells makes a pretty good feat for these gishy builds too. Combined with those spell storing weapons you get to double stack spells

(duskblades and spellswords can tripple stack with channeling... eldritch theurge can do a smiting spell, spell storing, spell blast, hideous blow to deliver 3 spells PLUS eldritch blast damage)
Jungingen
07-13-07, 10:25 PM I suppose you could use a zweihander, but to me ADs seem like a bigger threat if they're dual-wielding in order to take advantage of Spell Storing weapons with silly spells like Twinned Poison.

Quarterstaff maybe, or zweihand with armor spikes.

Feats are always spread a bit thin with Giths, and you're up that infamous, scatological tributary with a TWF build once you're out of spells. Of course that's always more or less the case. Personally I'm going for an abbreviated 2hand charger build, since Wraithstrike sort of obviates the need for Shock Trooper. Bursts pretty nicely and lets me keep some flexibility in metamagic.

Casting TWFs are pretty neato when they work, particularly �ber-pouncing charger builds with lots of extra cheese. Those are pretty hard to realize until rather high levels though.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
spikevampire 07-09-07, 11:20 AM	The abiurant armor ability said that every abiuration spell that provide a bonus to CA or a shield bonus is increased by abiurant champion level. After he said that abiurant chapion use it with magic armor, but magic armor is a conjuration spell... in the example he have the spell casted on it improved by the ablity. I think is a mistake and i not know where to post it to suggest an errata. and also if a lv 10 abiurant champion (epic) cast a shield spell its bonus increase to +14?^?
RobbyPants 07-09-07, 12:34 PM	The abiurant armor ability said that every abiuration spell that provide a bonus to CA or a shield bonus is increased by abiurant champion level. After he said that abiurant chapion use it with magic armor, but magic armor is a conjuration spell... in the example he have the spell casted on it improved by the ablity. I think is a mistake and i not know where to post it to suggest an errata. So far as I know, the mistake lies in the class description that says "spells like shield and mage armor". As you noted, mage armor is a conjuration spell. The text (for the ability description) is the primary source on this matter, and as to date, there is no errata. Although, I wouldn't worry too much about it. With full casting, full BAB, and a slew of other abilities (not to mention easy entry requirements), this is probably the best gish class from WotC, even without boosting mage armor. ;) and also if a lv 10 abiurant champion (epic) cast a shield spell its bonus increase to +14?^? In theory, yes.
DogBackward 07-09-07, 12:41 PM	Actually, 5-level Prestige Classes aren't allowed to go Epic. So, if you take 5 levels of Abjurant Champion, those are the only 5 levels you'll ever get.
spikevampire 07-09-07, 01:19 PM	i also think it is the best class for a warrior / mage, but is really that a 5 level class couldn't be epic??? where i can find that rule? i really don't know about it.
DogBackward 07-09-07, 01:39 PM	It was in the 3.0 Epic Level Handbook. The idea was that if you've only got 5 levels in a class (Abjurant Champion, for example), you really can't consider yourself an Abjurant Champion, you're still just a Wizard/Fighter (or whatever). But really, it's because 5 level classes don't have a long enough period to establish reliable progression rates. How can you be sure that ability's supposed to be 1/3 levels, when there isn't a 6th level to check? That limitation may have been removed for 3.5, though, I haven't checked the DMG for it. Gimme a second... DMG pg206: "You cannot advance the class level of a class with fewer than 10 levels beyond the maximum described for that class, regardless of the character level of the advancing character."
spikevampire 07-09-07, 04:23 PM	ok if you want you can private message me if you know other, i have to tell you i am agree with you because epic class is a devotion in a class, 5 level is not a devotion but an year of story, or if you want a Power Player degree from the normal advancement in a class :P
spikevampire 07-09-07, 04:33 PM	hey man you're right isn't possible to be an epic abiurant champion!!! read in cap 6 of the dungeon master, in the introduction of the epic character
Twylyght 07-09-07, 05:31 PM	Lol... isn't Shield the ONLY abjuration that grants a armor or shield bonus? the Protection spells grant a deflection so they are a no go. *Edit and repelling shield!!! whoohooo rolls eyes**
spikevampire 07-09-07, 06:13 PM	yes i found the same problem... so i only improve shield... don't worry isn't so overpowered this class fortunately
DogBackward 07-09-07, 07:08 PM	Yeah, I was actually a little crestfallen when I was looking over the AC, myself. I had a nice Battle Sorceror/Abjurant Champion planned out, with Shield, Deflect, Protection from (Alignment), and all those cool spells lined up. Then I noticed the "Armor and Shield bonuses only" part. I'm all sad now...
spikevampire 07-09-07, 07:55 PM	:weep: i am sad with you...
RobbyPants 07-10-07, 09:37 AM	Don't worry too much about it. +9 Shield bonus to AC is pretty nice. If you want to boost your armor bonus, just throw in a level of Spell Sword (+1 BAB and caster level). You should be able to meet the requirements if you can be an Abjurant Champion. This first level gives you ignore arcane spell failure 10%. You could then get a suit of twilight mithril breatplate. Because of the minimum +1 enchantment to add twilight, you could get at least a +6 boost to your AC with no arcane spell failure. This would only cost 8,200 gp. Again, this single level dip costs you nothing, as both your BAB and caster level increase. :)
The_Shaman 07-10-07, 10:09 AM	Yeah, I was actually a little crestfallen when I was looking over the AC, myself. I had a nice Battle Sorceror/Abjurant Champion planned out, with Shield, Deflect, Protection from (Alignment), and all those cool spells lined up. Then I noticed the "Armor and Shield bonuses only" part. I'm all sad now... Hey, come on. A battlesorcerer can already cast in light armor. Get that feat that allows you to cast in medium and join the mithral full plate crowd :D It is definitely a great combo, though.
spikevampire 07-10-07, 12:17 PM	nice 1 level of spellsword...
0datdude0 07-10-07, 12:50 PM	where is this battle sorc class I keep hearing about?
RobbyPants 07-10-07, 12:55 PM	where is this battle sorc class I keep hearing about? It's an Unearthed Arcana variant which can also be found here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererVari antBattleSorcerer) in the SRD. The basic idea is that you sacrifice one spell per day and one spell known for every spell level (to a minimum of one, each) and Bluff, to gain: d8 hit dice 3/4 BAB progression Intimidate as a class skill One light or one-handed martial weapon proficiency Light armor proficiency The ability to cast in light armor without ASF
Twylyght 07-10-07, 03:28 PM	well with battle sorc, couldnt you add the battle caster feat and have no ASF in mithril full plate? TANK MAGE!
RobbyPants 07-10-07, 04:01 PM	well with battle sorc, couldnt you add the battle caster feat and have no ASF in mithril full plate? TANK MAGE! Yes you could. The only thing is you either need to blow another feat on medium armor proficiency (and in some games, another yet on heavy armor proficiency) or level dip into a class with better armor. Battle Caster allows you to cast in said armor, but won't make you proficient. This is precicely why I like the Paladin 2/Battle Sorcerer 18 build. It's not the most potent gish around, but it's simple, gets 9th level spells, can cast in mithril full plate, and it adds its primary casting stat mod to all saving throws!
Twylyght 07-10-07, 05:49 PM	Yes you could. The only thing is you either need to blow another feat on medium armor proficiency (and in some games, another yet on heavy armor proficiency) or level dip into a class with better armor. Battle Caster allows you to cast in said armor, but won't make you proficient. This is precicely why I like the Paladin 2/Battle Sorcerer 18 build. It's not the most potent gish around, but it's simple, gets 9th level spells, can cast in mithril full plate, and it adds its primary casting stat mod to all saving throws! Hmm... i like that. How about a Battle Sor 13/Pal 2/Abjurant champion 5. You get that CHA to saves, the same casting ability, and +9 ac from the shield spell, and heck able to cast an extended abjuration spell as a swift action is nothing to sneeze at. Protection from evil at will? yes please! Arcane boost is pretty solid too in the right situations. Failing to be lawful/good you could opt for a level of Favored Soul. No cha to save, but you get +2 to all 3, a splash of divine spells, CHA casting, medium armor, and likely another weapon prof. Granted the saves on those spells are WIS based but if you take non attack spells its a non issue.
DogBackward 07-10-07, 06:25 PM	I'm actually rather fond of my "Human Monk 3/Sorceror 2/Paladin 3/Abjurant Champion 5/Enlightened Fist 6/Pious Templar 1" idea myself. It's not the most powerful with spells, but most of my Swift-action buffs are low level, and Aescetic Mage combined with Paladin and Monk makes my Cha really work for me. Not to mention the idea of a two-weapon fighting flurrying quarterstaff monk/mage with Wraithstrike, Arcane Strike and Power Attack. Yeah, it's kinda power-gamey and all, but it's meant as a fun mental exercise, not something to actually play... unless it's a hack 'n' slash, of course. And hey, if your Dm's lax on alignment (like many in hack 'n' slash games), replace three Enlightened Fist levels with three Hexblade levels for the ultimate spell-resistant PC. Does it allow a save? Nope, sorry, nothin' happens. x2 Cha to spell-based saves together with Evasion and Mettle... a lovely sight to behold. Not to mention the save boosts of the Monk and the AC's ability to increase saves with spell slots. This is definitely a nova-stylke build, though. If you want to use your full melee potential, you'll burn through spell slots like nothin' else.
spikevampire 07-11-07, 06:39 AM	:confused: nguuuuuul...
RobbyPants 07-11-07, 09:34 AM	Hmm... i like that. How about a Battle Sor 13/Pal 2/Abjurant champion 5. That's actually not a bad idea. I didn't really consider the idea of PrCs for that build, and the typical Eldritch Knight and Spellsword classes would just slow you down for no real gain. Abjurant Champion on the other hand... :confused: nguuuuuul... Did we get too off topic? ;) I'm perfectly willing to steer this back to the abjurant champion.
Apocolypse_77 07-11-07, 12:37 PM	isn't "greater mage armor" which is a spell from either complete arcane, or complete mage (can't remeber which) an abjuration spell? i know it provides 6 AC instead of 4, just not sure of the spell school.
spikevampire 07-11-07, 06:33 PM	i ceck it it is a conjuration spell...
0datdude0 07-11-07, 06:49 PM	Their is an abjuration armor spell in the book of viel goodness if I remember correctly.
Luminosity 07-11-07, 08:31 PM	I know it's not what you're looking for, but it might be good to note that Ectoplasmic Armor grants an armor bonus against incoporeal touch attacks. How do you Gish types handle the fact that your hands are usually full? Girallon's Blessing?
0datdude0 07-11-07, 09:11 PM	AC lets you make gesturs for spells with your sword its all good
Luminosity 07-11-07, 10:04 PM	AC lets you make gesturs for spells with your sword its all good If by AC you mean Abjurant Champion, I don't see that in the entry.
Luminosity 07-13-07, 01:55 AM	How do you Gish types handle the fact that your hands are usually full? Girallon's Blessing? Does anyone have an opinion on this?
Jungingen 07-13-07, 03:03 AM	Does anyone have an opinion on this? I use a greatsword. If a bunch of archetypal geezers can sling spells while clutching their staves, I can cast while holding my giant shank. Shields seem a bit more problematic, but a gish who actually bothers to hold his shield personally is probably an idiot anyway. Especially if he's an AC.
RobbyPants 07-13-07, 11:02 AM	I use a greatsword. If a bunch of archetypal geezers can sling spells while clutching their staves, I can cast while holding my giant shank. Shields seem a bit more problematic, but a gish who actually bothers to hold his shield personally is probably an idiot anyway. Especially if he's an AC. Agreed. I'd suggest a good two-handed weapon. I'd rule that you can hold it with one hand while casting with the other. I just don't think you'd be counted as armed for AoOs during that round. If I did use a shield, I wouldn't use a heavy shield. Either a buckler or light shield is nice because you have the other hand free for holding things. Of course, as Jungingen suggested, a gish probably doesn't need to hold his shield. By the level when you get your PrCs, you can probably afford an animated shield.
Luminosity 07-13-07, 11:52 AM	I suppose you could use a zweihander, but to me ADs seem like a bigger threat if they're dual-wielding in order to take advantage of Spell Storing weapons with silly spells like Twinned Poison. Quarterstaff maybe, or zweihand with armor spikes.
Twylyght 07-13-07, 04:23 PM	I suppose you could use a zweihander, but to me ADs seem like a bigger threat if they're dual-wielding in order to take advantage of Spell Storing weapons with silly spells like Twinned Poison. Quarterstaff maybe, or zweihand with armor spikes. I think smiting spells makes a pretty good feat for these gishy builds too. Combined with those spell storing weapons you get to double stack spells (duskblades and spellswords can tripple stack with channeling... eldritch theurge can do a smiting spell, spell storing, spell blast, hideous blow to deliver 3 spells PLUS eldritch blast damage)
Jungingen 07-13-07, 10:25 PM	I suppose you could use a zweihander, but to me ADs seem like a bigger threat if they're dual-wielding in order to take advantage of Spell Storing weapons with silly spells like Twinned Poison. Quarterstaff maybe, or zweihand with armor spikes. Feats are always spread a bit thin with Giths, and you're up that infamous, scatological tributary with a TWF build once you're out of spells. Of course that's always more or less the case. Personally I'm going for an abbreviated 2hand charger build, since Wraithstrike sort of obviates the need for Shock Trooper. Bursts pretty nicely and lets me keep some flexibility in metamagic. Casting TWFs are pretty neato when they work, particularly �ber-pouncing charger builds with lots of extra cheese. Those are pretty hard to realize until rather high levels though.