Aikido Specialist (Need some help) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Aikido Specialist (Need some help) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rath_Robert
01-24-07, 04:37 AM Okay, I've thought up a PrC, however, I need some ideas for prerequisites as well as overall feedback on the abilities.

HD: d8
Skills: Same as Monk
4 + Int Mod

Class Features:

Unarmed Progression: The Aikido Specialist continues to progress in his unarmed fighting capabilities. He continues to gain unarmed damage, attacks, move speed, and AC as a monk for every level of Aikido Specialist they attain.

Grappling Techniques: The basic art of Aikido is based heavily on grappling techniques as well as powerful throws that use the enemy’s momentum against them. These grappling techniques also can punish a foe into submission if the aikido specialist wishes.

Ikkyō: This technique is a control using one hand on the elbow and one on near the wrist which leverages his opponent to the ground. This grip also applies pressure into the ulnar nerve on the medial side of the arm. So long as the specialist can maintain a grapple, he deals ½ unarmed damage each turn that he maintains the grapple. Even if the target breaks the hold, he must make a Fort Save DC 10 + Number of rounds grappled or loose the use of his arm for 1d4 rounds.

Nikyō: This technique is an adductive wristlock that torques the arm and applies painful nerve pressure. If the specialist succeeds at a grapple check, he may make an additional check, if it succeeds, he deals unarmed damage to his target and unless the target makes a Fort save DC 10+Damage dealt or loose the use of the hand for 1d4 rounds, in addition, if the target fails the save, he can no longer hold a weapon or shield with that hand as long as it is unusable.

Sankyō: This technique is a pronating technique that directs upward-spiraling tension throughout the arm, elbow and shoulder. If the specialist succeeds at a grapple check, he may make an additional check, if it succeeds, he deals unarmed damage to his target and unless the target makes a Fort save DC 10+Damage dealt or loose the use of the hand for 1d4 rounds, in addition, the specialist may maintain this grapple each turn dealing ½ unarmed damage until the hold is broken.

Atemi: The aikido specialist is known their ability to use pressure points to stun their opponents and also know many feinting techniques. This ability grants the Improved Feint feat to the specialist and in addition he may now add his specialist level to the number of stunning attacks he may make per day.

Dodging Grapple: The aikido specialist now gains the ability to maintain his AC bonus even while grappling.

Throwing Techniques: The second thing an aikido specialist must learn are the different throwing techniques passed down from the master.

Shihōnage (four-direction throw): The hand is folded back past the shoulder, locking the shoulder joint. If the specialist succeeds at a grapple check, he may then make a second check, if it succeeds, the target is thrown backward dealing ½ unarmed damage and in addition, if they do not make a DC 10+Damage Dealt Fort save, their arm is useless for 1d4 rounds.

Kotegaeshi (wrist return): A supinating wristlock-throw that stretches the extensor digitorum. If the specialist succeeds at a grapple check, he may then make a second check, if it succeeds, the target’s arm is bent sideways and the target rolls with the momentum. This attack deals normal unarmed damage to a foe and also leaves him prone.

Kokyūnage (breath throw): The specialist is able to use a special series of throws that are very useful against several enemies. If the specialist takes either the full defense action and is attacked, he may immediately make a grapple check against his enemy, if the check succeeds, the specialist uses the targets momentum to throw him aside, dealing ½ unarmed damage and leaving the target prone. This ability counts as an attack of opportunity for the specialist.

Iriminage (entering-body throw): This technique is interesting and aggressive technique where the specialist uses a clothsline type attack. If the specialist makes a grapple check, he may then make a second check, if it succeeds, he deals 1 ½ damage to his target while also knocking them prone.

Koshinage (hip throw): This technique uses the standard hip throw to knock
an opponent to the ground. If the specialist If the specialist makes a grapple check, he may then make a second check, if it succeeds, he deals standard damage to his target while also maintain his grapple on the ground.

Grappling Mastery: The specialist has now mastered the use of the grapple and gains an additional +4 bonus to grapple checks which stacks with the Improved Grapple Feat.

Reverse Grappling: The specialist has become very good at counter-grappling his foes. If the aikido specialist finds himself grappled, he may make a reverse grapple check, he takes a -4 on this check, but if it succeeds, he instantly reverses the grapple on his foe.

Striking Techniques: These special attacks are used by the specialist to cause his opponent to be stunned or slowed.

Shōmen'uchi (front-face-strike): This attack uses a knife edge chop where the specialist strikes his foe directly across the face. This attack, in addition to dealing standard damage also leaves his foe blind for 1d4 rounds unless he makes a Fort save DC 10+Damage Dealt. This attack takes up one of the specialist’s stunning attack attempts per day.

Mune-tsuki (chest-thrust): The punch is a double-fisted punch square in the chest of a foe. If the specialist gives up two of his stunning attack uses, he may instead deal standard damage that also knocks the wind out of his opponent if he doesn’t make a Fort save DC 10+Damage Dealt. If the target fails, it is considered stunned for 1d4 turns and in addition, the target is considered winded for 2d4 turns after coming out of the stun.

Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special

1 +0 +0 +2 +0 Unarmed Progression, Grappling Techniques

2 +1 +0 +3 +0 Atemi

3 +2 +1 +3 +1 Dodging Grapple, Throwing Techniques

4 +3 +1 +4 +1 Grappling Mastery

5 +3 +1 +4 +1 Reverse Grapple, Striking Techniques
Horseshoe
01-25-07, 08:27 PM Bear in mind that O-Sensei may have been into his epic levels. ;)

This is just my opinion, but I just don't think a prestige class is appropriate for the basics of a particular fighting style, plus having specific techniques is a bit complicated.

I've studied Aikido (though it's not my speciality) and one of the things that is great about it is its simplicity. I'd say, make a monk customized for tripping and grappling, and then while playing the class, you can name your trip attempts whatever throw you'd like and your grapple attempts whatever lock you'd like. Think of the 20 levels as being ten of kyu and ten of dan.

Really, I'd say Monk + Kensai with the proper feat choices could be pretty darn good for approximating an Aikidoka.

***

I think either of these monk fighting style variants from unearthed arcana could suitable for approximating aikido in the dnd setting with a few tweaks here and there:

Denying Stance
The Denying Stance monk seeks to neutralize the opponent's maneuvers, thwarting him at every turn until he becomes so frustrated that he makes a crucial error.
1st-Level Skill Bonus: Tumble.
1st-Level Feat: Improved Grapple.
2nd-Level Feat: Combat Reflexes.
6th-Level Feat: Improved Disarm.
6th-Level Bonus Ability: When fighting defensively or using the Combat Expertise feat, you gain a +2 bonus on grapple checks and disarm attempts.
Prerequisites: Tumble 9 ranks, Combat Expertise.

Passive Way
The Passive Way focuses on making your opponent overreach himself or underestimate your skill.
1st-Level Skill Bonus: Bluff.
1st-Level Feat: Combat Expertise.
2nd-Level Feat: Improved Trip.
6th-Level Feat: Improved Feint.
6th-Level Bonus Ability: You gain a +4 bonus on Strength checks made to trip an opponent who is denied his Dexterity bonus to Armor Class.
Prerequisites: Bluff 4 ranks, Sense Motive 4 ranks, Skill Focus (Bluff).

I think you could take either of these and play around with feats and other things to make it more "Aikido".

Feats from Complete Warrior such as Clever Wrestling, Close-Quarters Fighting, Defensive Throw, Eyes in the Back of Your Head, Freezing the Lifeblood, Kiai Shout, Karmic Strike, Pain Touch, Prone Attack, and Weakening Touch are all suitable for putting a bit of Aikido flavor into a monk.

***

Please not that the following is quite "off the cuff".

If that isn't "special" enough, maybe you could work out a customized class feature and feat chain or something. The way of peace is difficult to follow, but the benefits to its practitioner can be rewarding. Maybe as a class feature, an Aikidoka could have a code that they must follow, vowing not to kill their opponents. Basically, this means that they must try their best to subdue and incapacitate living sentient opponents without causing them great harm (in other words - lethal damage is right out). For adherence to the code, they are rewarded with, say, a +2 circumstance bonus to diplomacy, sense motive, and bluff checks... the things they need to feel the intent of their opponents.

Perhaps the Aikidoka could have access to feats that allow him to specialize in grappling. A feat chain could look something like:
- Improved Awareness: Maintain dex bonus to AC and still threaten adjacent squares while grappling. (requires Improved Grapple and Combat Reflexes)
- Improved Escape: Make escape artist checks to escape from being grappled or pinned as a move action. (Requires Improved Awareness)
- One-Handed Pin: Pin an opponent as a free action after maintaining a grapple. You may still make an attack, escape another’s grapple, retrieve a spell component, or break another’s pin with your free hand while you are pinning an opponent. (Requires Improved Escape).
- Two Handed Grappling: Disarm, Trip, Grapple, or Pin two opponents at a time. (Requires One-Handed Pin)
Rath_Robert
01-25-07, 11:03 PM Hey good to see a response, this is really just a work in progress, I put together a martial artist class a long time ago, which had feat chains and stuff, however, I'm working on this stuff for my game, which is very low magic, so martial arts and things can be very important, now what I could do, is maybe make my martial artist base class where they can select a martial arts style, but I think I'll get my thoughts together and then post it.
CroupandVandemar
01-26-07, 12:00 AM Ok. Well as a blackbelt in aikido i have a couple of suggestions to make:

Most things in aikido never need strength, more like endurance and weight underside. But in d&d all grapples are based off strength. So maybe you can do a: add int. mod. to check; or: use int. mod (or wis., or con.) instead of strength to this check.

Oh and one more thing. Size hardly matters to a master aikidoka, so maybe, at a certain level, you should start to ignore size penalties for one size difference.
enygmatic_me
01-27-07, 10:42 AM As has already been pointed out Strength is not the focus of Aikido.

These are just some ideas of the top of my head.

1) Dodge, Improved Trip, and Improved Grapple as feat prerequisites.

2) Grant the Combat Expertise Feat (probably by level 3ish).

3) Allowing Wisdom (in place of Strength) for grapple checks would be a great place to start.

4) Bonuses to grapple and trip attempt rolls while fighting defensively or using the Combat Expertise feat is another.

5) Increase the AC gained from using the Combat Expertise. Something along the lines of," As long as the character shifts at least two points of their attack bonus to AC they gain an additional +2 to AC beyond the normal benefits of using this feat".

6) Wisdom to AC like Monks.

7) Practitioner retains Dexterity (and wisdom) to AC while grappling.

8) Practitioner only required to have one arm free to initiate and maintain grapple.

9) Character continues to threaten the area around them.

10) Character gains the ability to apply Dodge feat to more than one target. Make this scaling (2 characters at 3rd, 3 at fifth, etc...)

11) Practitioner ignores penalties for size category differences (one size category at 4th and another at 8th maybe - would allow a medium sized creature to toss a huge one with no penalty eventually).
benstundze
02-03-07, 06:27 PM please make sure I categorized your PrC correctly PrC Compendium (http://boards1.wizards.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=11374965)
ben
yoda112358
02-18-07, 01:10 AM well, being an aikidoka myself, there should be some kind of bonus for a low center of gravity (not necessarily sixe, though)
Sudnji_cas
02-19-07, 11:12 AM Why don't you make a variant class that specialize in ki-aikido (here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ki-Aikido)) or "real aikido"(]look here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Aikido))?
daievo073
03-03-07, 09:48 PM i would think that for the flavor of the aikido PrC to be proper, there would definitely need to be soe alignment requirements... true neutral. honestly, it's kind of hard to be a fighter when you philosophically feel that "there is no fight". i dunno, it's just that, in the spirit of aikido, you're doing no harm.

maybe some of the aikido moves you made could be used to "incapacitate" the foe/aggressor.

hope that helps.
Sudnji_cas
03-07-07, 05:35 PM Can't believe there are only 8 responses. This is so close too real aikido.
Rath_Robert
03-07-07, 06:08 PM Thanks for all the responses. I'm sort of stuck as far as corrections. I'm not really sure what to add/subtract/change. I still kind of like it as is, but I myself have no experience with the art, I was just trying to look at the style from the research that I did.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rath_Robert 01-24-07, 04:37 AM	Okay, I've thought up a PrC, however, I need some ideas for prerequisites as well as overall feedback on the abilities. HD: d8 Skills: Same as Monk 4 + Int Mod Class Features: Unarmed Progression: The Aikido Specialist continues to progress in his unarmed fighting capabilities. He continues to gain unarmed damage, attacks, move speed, and AC as a monk for every level of Aikido Specialist they attain. Grappling Techniques: The basic art of Aikido is based heavily on grappling techniques as well as powerful throws that use the enemy’s momentum against them. These grappling techniques also can punish a foe into submission if the aikido specialist wishes. Ikkyō: This technique is a control using one hand on the elbow and one on near the wrist which leverages his opponent to the ground. This grip also applies pressure into the ulnar nerve on the medial side of the arm. So long as the specialist can maintain a grapple, he deals ½ unarmed damage each turn that he maintains the grapple. Even if the target breaks the hold, he must make a Fort Save DC 10 + Number of rounds grappled or loose the use of his arm for 1d4 rounds. Nikyō: This technique is an adductive wristlock that torques the arm and applies painful nerve pressure. If the specialist succeeds at a grapple check, he may make an additional check, if it succeeds, he deals unarmed damage to his target and unless the target makes a Fort save DC 10+Damage dealt or loose the use of the hand for 1d4 rounds, in addition, if the target fails the save, he can no longer hold a weapon or shield with that hand as long as it is unusable. Sankyō: This technique is a pronating technique that directs upward-spiraling tension throughout the arm, elbow and shoulder. If the specialist succeeds at a grapple check, he may make an additional check, if it succeeds, he deals unarmed damage to his target and unless the target makes a Fort save DC 10+Damage dealt or loose the use of the hand for 1d4 rounds, in addition, the specialist may maintain this grapple each turn dealing ½ unarmed damage until the hold is broken. Atemi: The aikido specialist is known their ability to use pressure points to stun their opponents and also know many feinting techniques. This ability grants the Improved Feint feat to the specialist and in addition he may now add his specialist level to the number of stunning attacks he may make per day. Dodging Grapple: The aikido specialist now gains the ability to maintain his AC bonus even while grappling. Throwing Techniques: The second thing an aikido specialist must learn are the different throwing techniques passed down from the master. Shihōnage (four-direction throw): The hand is folded back past the shoulder, locking the shoulder joint. If the specialist succeeds at a grapple check, he may then make a second check, if it succeeds, the target is thrown backward dealing ½ unarmed damage and in addition, if they do not make a DC 10+Damage Dealt Fort save, their arm is useless for 1d4 rounds. Kotegaeshi (wrist return): A supinating wristlock-throw that stretches the extensor digitorum. If the specialist succeeds at a grapple check, he may then make a second check, if it succeeds, the target’s arm is bent sideways and the target rolls with the momentum. This attack deals normal unarmed damage to a foe and also leaves him prone. Kokyūnage (breath throw): The specialist is able to use a special series of throws that are very useful against several enemies. If the specialist takes either the full defense action and is attacked, he may immediately make a grapple check against his enemy, if the check succeeds, the specialist uses the targets momentum to throw him aside, dealing ½ unarmed damage and leaving the target prone. This ability counts as an attack of opportunity for the specialist. Iriminage (entering-body throw): This technique is interesting and aggressive technique where the specialist uses a clothsline type attack. If the specialist makes a grapple check, he may then make a second check, if it succeeds, he deals 1 ½ damage to his target while also knocking them prone. Koshinage (hip throw): This technique uses the standard hip throw to knock an opponent to the ground. If the specialist If the specialist makes a grapple check, he may then make a second check, if it succeeds, he deals standard damage to his target while also maintain his grapple on the ground. Grappling Mastery: The specialist has now mastered the use of the grapple and gains an additional +4 bonus to grapple checks which stacks with the Improved Grapple Feat. Reverse Grappling: The specialist has become very good at counter-grappling his foes. If the aikido specialist finds himself grappled, he may make a reverse grapple check, he takes a -4 on this check, but if it succeeds, he instantly reverses the grapple on his foe. Striking Techniques: These special attacks are used by the specialist to cause his opponent to be stunned or slowed. Shōmen'uchi (front-face-strike): This attack uses a knife edge chop where the specialist strikes his foe directly across the face. This attack, in addition to dealing standard damage also leaves his foe blind for 1d4 rounds unless he makes a Fort save DC 10+Damage Dealt. This attack takes up one of the specialist’s stunning attack attempts per day. Mune-tsuki (chest-thrust): The punch is a double-fisted punch square in the chest of a foe. If the specialist gives up two of his stunning attack uses, he may instead deal standard damage that also knocks the wind out of his opponent if he doesn’t make a Fort save DC 10+Damage Dealt. If the target fails, it is considered stunned for 1d4 turns and in addition, the target is considered winded for 2d4 turns after coming out of the stun. Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special 1 +0 +0 +2 +0 Unarmed Progression, Grappling Techniques 2 +1 +0 +3 +0 Atemi 3 +2 +1 +3 +1 Dodging Grapple, Throwing Techniques 4 +3 +1 +4 +1 Grappling Mastery 5 +3 +1 +4 +1 Reverse Grapple, Striking Techniques
Horseshoe 01-25-07, 08:27 PM	Bear in mind that O-Sensei may have been into his epic levels. ;) This is just my opinion, but I just don't think a prestige class is appropriate for the basics of a particular fighting style, plus having specific techniques is a bit complicated. I've studied Aikido (though it's not my speciality) and one of the things that is great about it is its simplicity. I'd say, make a monk customized for tripping and grappling, and then while playing the class, you can name your trip attempts whatever throw you'd like and your grapple attempts whatever lock you'd like. Think of the 20 levels as being ten of kyu and ten of dan. Really, I'd say Monk + Kensai with the proper feat choices could be pretty darn good for approximating an Aikidoka. * I think either of these monk fighting style variants from unearthed arcana could suitable for approximating aikido in the dnd setting with a few tweaks here and there: Denying Stance The Denying Stance monk seeks to neutralize the opponent's maneuvers, thwarting him at every turn until he becomes so frustrated that he makes a crucial error. 1st-Level Skill Bonus: Tumble. 1st-Level Feat: Improved Grapple. 2nd-Level Feat: Combat Reflexes. 6th-Level Feat: Improved Disarm. 6th-Level Bonus Ability: When fighting defensively or using the Combat Expertise feat, you gain a +2 bonus on grapple checks and disarm attempts. Prerequisites: Tumble 9 ranks, Combat Expertise. Passive Way The Passive Way focuses on making your opponent overreach himself or underestimate your skill. 1st-Level Skill Bonus: Bluff. 1st-Level Feat: Combat Expertise. 2nd-Level Feat: Improved Trip. 6th-Level Feat: Improved Feint. 6th-Level Bonus Ability: You gain a +4 bonus on Strength checks made to trip an opponent who is denied his Dexterity bonus to Armor Class. Prerequisites: Bluff 4 ranks, Sense Motive 4 ranks, Skill Focus (Bluff). I think you could take either of these and play around with feats and other things to make it more "Aikido". Feats from Complete Warrior such as Clever Wrestling, Close-Quarters Fighting, Defensive Throw, Eyes in the Back of Your Head, Freezing the Lifeblood, Kiai Shout, Karmic Strike, Pain Touch, Prone Attack, and Weakening Touch are all suitable for putting a bit of Aikido flavor into a monk. * Please not that the following is quite "off the cuff". If that isn't "special" enough, maybe you could work out a customized class feature and feat chain or something. The way of peace is difficult to follow, but the benefits to its practitioner can be rewarding. Maybe as a class feature, an Aikidoka could have a code that they must follow, vowing not to kill their opponents. Basically, this means that they must try their best to subdue and incapacitate living sentient opponents without causing them great harm (in other words - lethal damage is right out). For adherence to the code, they are rewarded with, say, a +2 circumstance bonus to diplomacy, sense motive, and bluff checks... the things they need to feel the intent of their opponents. Perhaps the Aikidoka could have access to feats that allow him to specialize in grappling. A feat chain could look something like: - Improved Awareness: Maintain dex bonus to AC and still threaten adjacent squares while grappling. (requires Improved Grapple and Combat Reflexes) - Improved Escape: Make escape artist checks to escape from being grappled or pinned as a move action. (Requires Improved Awareness) - One-Handed Pin: Pin an opponent as a free action after maintaining a grapple. You may still make an attack, escape another’s grapple, retrieve a spell component, or break another’s pin with your free hand while you are pinning an opponent. (Requires Improved Escape). - Two Handed Grappling: Disarm, Trip, Grapple, or Pin two opponents at a time. (Requires One-Handed Pin)
Rath_Robert 01-25-07, 11:03 PM	Hey good to see a response, this is really just a work in progress, I put together a martial artist class a long time ago, which had feat chains and stuff, however, I'm working on this stuff for my game, which is very low magic, so martial arts and things can be very important, now what I could do, is maybe make my martial artist base class where they can select a martial arts style, but I think I'll get my thoughts together and then post it.
CroupandVandemar 01-26-07, 12:00 AM	Ok. Well as a blackbelt in aikido i have a couple of suggestions to make: Most things in aikido never need strength, more like endurance and weight underside. But in d&d all grapples are based off strength. So maybe you can do a: add int. mod. to check; or: use int. mod (or wis., or con.) instead of strength to this check. Oh and one more thing. Size hardly matters to a master aikidoka, so maybe, at a certain level, you should start to ignore size penalties for one size difference.
enygmatic_me 01-27-07, 10:42 AM	As has already been pointed out Strength is not the focus of Aikido. These are just some ideas of the top of my head. 1) Dodge, Improved Trip, and Improved Grapple as feat prerequisites. 2) Grant the Combat Expertise Feat (probably by level 3ish). 3) Allowing Wisdom (in place of Strength) for grapple checks would be a great place to start. 4) Bonuses to grapple and trip attempt rolls while fighting defensively or using the Combat Expertise feat is another. 5) Increase the AC gained from using the Combat Expertise. Something along the lines of," As long as the character shifts at least two points of their attack bonus to AC they gain an additional +2 to AC beyond the normal benefits of using this feat". 6) Wisdom to AC like Monks. 7) Practitioner retains Dexterity (and wisdom) to AC while grappling. 8) Practitioner only required to have one arm free to initiate and maintain grapple. 9) Character continues to threaten the area around them. 10) Character gains the ability to apply Dodge feat to more than one target. Make this scaling (2 characters at 3rd, 3 at fifth, etc...) 11) Practitioner ignores penalties for size category differences (one size category at 4th and another at 8th maybe - would allow a medium sized creature to toss a huge one with no penalty eventually).
benstundze 02-03-07, 06:27 PM	please make sure I categorized your PrC correctly PrC Compendium (http://boards1.wizards.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=11374965) ben
yoda112358 02-18-07, 01:10 AM	well, being an aikidoka myself, there should be some kind of bonus for a low center of gravity (not necessarily sixe, though)
Sudnji_cas 02-19-07, 11:12 AM	Why don't you make a variant class that specialize in ki-aikido (here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ki-Aikido)) or "real aikido"(]look here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Aikido))?
daievo073 03-03-07, 09:48 PM	i would think that for the flavor of the aikido PrC to be proper, there would definitely need to be soe alignment requirements... true neutral. honestly, it's kind of hard to be a fighter when you philosophically feel that "there is no fight". i dunno, it's just that, in the spirit of aikido, you're doing no harm. maybe some of the aikido moves you made could be used to "incapacitate" the foe/aggressor. hope that helps.
Sudnji_cas 03-07-07, 05:35 PM	Can't believe there are only 8 responses. This is so close too real aikido.
Rath_Robert 03-07-07, 06:08 PM	Thanks for all the responses. I'm sort of stuck as far as corrections. I'm not really sure what to add/subtract/change. I still kind of like it as is, but I myself have no experience with the art, I was just trying to look at the style from the research that I did.