Post/Author/DateTime	Post
l3tts 03-25-07, 10:03 AM	I’m a Lineage 2 and Dungeons & Dragons 3rd - 3.5ed fan, My favorite Class in Lineage is the Blade Dancer and besides the dungeon Master Guide has a Blade Dancer, Him doesn’t suit to the class in Lineage world. So I took the freedom to develop an adaptation of it. I would like you all to express your opinion so the prestige I present ahead, can be mostly balanced. Thank You ______________________________ BLADE DANCER The Blade Dancer, Is a warrior that with his dances imbues the allies with extraordinary moral to challenge the enemies. REQUIREMENTS Base Attack: +5 Perform (Dance): 7 ranks Feats: Two Weapon Fighting; Weapon Focus (Long sword), Oversized Two Weapon Fighting; Skill Focus (Perform (Dance)) Especial: Bardic Music Hit Dice: d6 Class Skills: 4 + INT. Balance, Concentration, Craft, Jump, Perform, Profession, Tumble Weapon and Armor Proficiency: BladeDancer are proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with light armor, but not with shields. (EX) Dance. Once a day for level, the Blade Dancer if not wearing armor greater than light, can use his dance to generate a magic effect in those allied whiting 30 feats. Depending on the ranks in Perform (Dance). This can be use only if the Blade Dancer is wielding two long swords, and as a move equivalent action, using the double movement action the Blade Dancer can dance twice in a round. The amount of active dances that the Blade Dancer can maintain at a time is restricted for his level, for example Ouro is a Blade Dancer level 3 that has 3 dances available, he has 2 dances actives, if he dances a third time, the first dance that is in effect is deactivated. If he reaches lvl 5, he can mantain 3 dances. Dances have a duration of 5 rounds. Feats that affects Bardic Music can also apply for Dances. Dance of Fire: Ranks needed 8 - Increases critical multiplier in 1. Dance of Light: Ranks needed 9 – Gives the weapon the good description. Dance of Inspiration: Ranks needed 10 – Grants +2 morale bonus to attack rolls Dance of Mystic: Ranks needed 11 - Grants +2 damage per die throw in spells and spell like. Dance of Concentration: Ranks needed 12 - Grants a +2 in DC and checks to overcome spell resistance. Dance of Warrior: Ranks needed 13 – Gives +2 extra damage per dice thrown in physical attack, (Melee or Ranged) Dance of Fury: Ranks needed 14 – Gives an extra partial action. Dance of Poison: Ranks neede 15 - the Bladedancer wielding two long swords can make a Whirlwind Attack feat, sucesfull hit leaves target poisoned, losing 1 hit point per round until remove poison is cast on him. Dance of Protection: Ranks needed 16 – Gives resistance to energy equal to the Blade Dancer charisma bonus. Dance of Vampire: Ranks needed 17 - Grants 1d8 of life drain per melee attack. (EX) Precise strike: Add The Blade Dancer dexterity bonus togheter with his strength bonus in attack rolls with melee weapons. (Sp) Drain Life. Once a day at lvl 2, and twice at level 6, The Blade Dancer can use magic to cause 1d8 for each 2 lvls damage and heal the same amount. DC = 10+Lvl+Cha. Fortitude reduce the damage to the half. (Sp) Curse: the Bladedancer can use the Bestow Curse spell twice at lvl 6, and 3 at lvl 9, DC = 10+Lvl+Cha. Will negates. (Ex) Bleed: The Bladedancer gains de Two Weapon Rend Feat, as described in the Players Handbook 2, page 84. PRESTIGE CLASS TABLE: THE BLADEDANCER Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special 1 +1 +0 +2 +0 Dance of Fire, Precise strike 2 +2 +0 +3 +0 Dance of Light, Drain Life, 2 Dances 3 +3 +1 +3 +1 Dance of Inspiration, Improve Two Weapon Fighting 4 +4 +1 +4 +1 Dance of Mystic, Bleed 5 +5 +1 +4 +1 Dance of Concentration, 6 +6 +2 +5 +2 Dance of Warrior, Drain Life x2, Curse x2, 3 Dance 7 +7 +2 +5 +2 Dance of Fury 8 +8 +2 +6 +2 Dance of Poison, 9 +9 +3 +6 +3 Dance of Protection, Curse x3 10 +10 +3 +7 +3 Dance of Vampire, 4 Dances
Mordin 03-25-07, 11:23 AM	I see one problem Longsword can't be used with Weapon Finess. Other than that I like the flavor of this class.
cog_n_taz 03-25-07, 11:28 AM	Looks good. One question though: what is a moral bonus?:P
l3tts 03-25-07, 01:26 PM	I see one problem Longsword can't be used with Weapon Finess. Other than that I like the flavor of this class. You r right, I erase that requiriment. I gotta find another, and I change this (EX) Precise strike: The Blade Dancer use his dexterity bonus instead of his strength bonus in attack rolls with melee weapons. Changed to (EX) Precise strike: Add The Blade Dancer dexterity bonus togheter with his strength bonus in attack rolls with melee weapons. Cause the BladeDancer in Lineage 2 is a Profession that makes heavy damage, gives mass auras, has spells, but has low def and Hit points. It also have magic defense, but five this prestige Monk saving throws woulf make it very unfair. ------------------- Looks good. One question though: what is a moral bonus?:P Moral bonus is a non magical efect that grants bonification in some rolls. Like the +4 moral bonus agains fear for being near a Paladin
enygmatic_me 03-25-07, 03:17 PM	Is this geared toward a Bard only build or a Bard/Fighter build? If it is supposed to be intended for a Bard only build it is a little hefty in requirements, though not unreasonable. A Bard only build will not be able to take this class until 10th level. At that level the Bard/Bladedancer should already be capable of using everything from Dance of Protection on down. Also, the ability to use 3 dances at once is too powerful in my opinion, especially how early they can do it. I am assuming that Dance of the Vampire requires rank 15. This means that they will be capable of using all dances as a 12th level character. The ability to grant yourself and all allies with in 30' immunity to negative levels and ability damage as well as an additional 1d8 points of damage per attack that heals them all at 12th level is not balanced. Precise Strike is ok, but I am confused as to what Drain Life and Bestow Curse have to do with being a blade specialist. Bleed is just a feat so not much to say here, but Dance of Poison is way to powerful. Attack all targets (twice) as per whirlwind using your perform skill? On top of it they have to make a Fort save or take 1d10 Con Damage? Too powerful. All the extra abilities on top of the dances makes this class very unbalanced. I would suggest dropping everything but the dances, increase the dance rank requirement by about 3 or 4, and then the class should be close to balanced. Also, as you are not a native english speaker, you are looking for the word Morale. Moral is something different all together.
The_Shaman 03-25-07, 03:33 PM	Feels a bit like bard or a weird form of a marshall, but getting several buffs at once might be a bit too much, sorry. If you want to mimic the build, perhaps a bard/fighter could be a good idea (say, with snowflake wardance).
l3tts 03-25-07, 04:08 PM	so If I have to do a BladeDancer exactly o the must alike to the Lineage 2 world, it would be too much unbalanced?? In Lineage the bladedancer has drain life and bestow curse, maybe the daily uses can be reduced. The negative energy negation I try to adapt, whit some near, but I think is badly adapted and though on potion instead of it, the Dance of Poison Leaving it this way PRESTIGE CLASS TABLE: THE BLADEDANCER Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special 7 +5 +2 +5 +2 Dance de fury 8 +6 +2 +6 +2 Dance of poison, 4 Dances 9 +6 +3 +6 +3 Dance de Protection, Curse x3 10 +7 +3 +7 +3 Dance of Vampire So I left away the Restoration dance. and leting the poison dance. Its its powerfull, but how can I set it according to the original, it makes damage around and poisons enemies making them lose hit points in the time ahead. Maybe like a simple wirlwind attack and losing of 1 hit point per round until remove poison is cast on target? ------------------------------------ enygmatic_me, I have edited the prestige acording to your advice, how does it look to you now?
enygmatic_me 03-25-07, 05:15 PM	The problem you are going to have is that video game mechanics and D&D mechanics seldom mix well. Instead of giving the class the ability to make magical poison attacks just give them the Poison Use class feature like ninjas receive. Instead of giving them spell-like abilities to bestow curse and drain life instead you might want to progress their spell casting and add Bestow Curse to their spell list as a 4th level spell. Since they already have Dance of the Vampire I would suggest losing the Drain Life ability all together. Also, since they have Dance of the Warrior I would also lose Precise Strike. As Bleed is just the Two Weapon Rend feat I would suggest dropping that as well. If the player really wants it then they should just take it as one of their Feat choices. Allowing them to stack two dances as once is very powerful. Letting them stack three and four is too much. You should consider getting rid of Dance 3 and Dance 4 and then move Dance 2 to level 5 or 6. This would really help with balancing the class.
Leress 03-26-07, 02:34 AM	I’m a Lineage 2 and Dungeons & Dragons 3rd - 3.5ed fan, My favorite Class in Lineage is the Blade Dancer and besides the dungeon Master Guide has a Blade Dancer, Him doesn’t suit to the class in Lineage world. So I took the freedom to develop an adaptation of it. I would like you all to express your opinion so the prestige I present ahead, can be mostly balanced. Thank You ______________________________ I haven't played the game but I will keep that in mind BLADE DANCER The Blade Dancer, Is a warrior that with his dances imbues the allies with extraordinary moral to challenge the enemies. REQUIREMENTS Base Attack: +7 Perform (Dance): 5 ranks Feats: Two Weapon Fighting; Weapon Focus (Long sword), Oversized Two Weapon Fighting; Skill Focus (Perform (Dance)) Especial: Bardic Music Okay, so a level 10 character can enter this class, okay... got that Hit Dice: d6 Class Skills: 4 + INT. Balance, Concentration, Craft, Jump, Perform, Profession, Tumble Why give this class so many skill points when it has so few skills? Either increase the skills or lower the points Weapon and Armor Proficiency: BladeDancer are proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with light armor, but not with shields. okay (EX) Dance. Once a day for level, the Blade Dancer if not wearing armor greater than light, can use his dance to generate a magic effect in those allied whiting 30 feats. Depending on the ranks in Perform (Dance). This can be use only if the Blade Dancer is wielding two long swords, and as a move equivalent action, using the double movement action the Blade Dancer can dance twice in a round. The amount of active dances that the Blade Dancer can maintain at a time is restricted for his level, for example Ouro is a Blade Dancer level 3 that has 3 dances available, he has 2 dances actives, if he dances a third time, the first dance that is in effect is deactivated. If he reaches lvl 5, he can mantain 3 dances. Dances have a duration of 5 rounds. Feats that affects Bardic Music can also apply for Dances. Okay Dance of Fire: Ranks needed 8 - Increases critical multiplier in 1. The ability is not really that powerful at the level you get it, even if it stacked with keen or improved critical. Dance of Light: Ranks needed 9 – Gives the weapon the good description. Which weapon? All the weapons that your allies use or just one. Still not level appropriate. Dance of Inspiration: Ranks needed 10 – Grants +2 morale bonus to attack rolls At this level a bard would be giving me more of a bonus, and his ability isn't level worthy. Dance of Mystic: Ranks needed 11 - Grants +2 damage per die throw in spells and spell like. nice but at ECL 14 most caster aren't using damage dealing spells. Dance of Concentration: Ranks needed 12 - Grants a +2 in DC and checks to overcome spell resistance. Too little too late most casters can overcome most spell resistances by this level (ECL 15)without feats. Dance of Warrior: Ranks needed 13 – Gives +2 extra damage per dice thrown in physical attack, (Melee or Ranged) okay this is nice, at little late (ECL 16) Dance of Fury: Ranks needed 14 – Gives an extra partial action. What??? The marshal gave me this many levels ago. Please be more specific, is it an extra move or standard action? Dance of Poison: Ranks neede 15 - the Bladedancer wielding two long swords can make a Whirlwind Attack feat, sucesfull hit leaves target poisoned, losing 1 hit point per round until remove poison is cast on him. At ECL 18 you give me whirlwind attack (mind you this class does not have good BAB) and does an attack like that of wounding in 3.0 edition. No where near level appropriate. Dance of Protection: Ranks needed 16 – Gives resistance to energy equal to the Blade Dancer charisma bonus. All I get is energy resistance of at best 10 if we rolled high for the character. Dance of Vampire: Ranks needed 17 - Grants 1d8 of life drain per melee attack. This epic ability would deal about 4.5 points of damage per hit. Since TWF is not very good and this class has Medium progression a fair number of hits would miss. Over the 5 rounds this is active it would most likely deal maybe 45 points of damage while enemies are dealing far more damage than that. Your allies may get better results but not by much. Not anywhere near level appropriate. I assume that all these dances are Supernatural abilities since they are not label as such. (EX) Precise strike: Add The Blade Dancer dexterity bonus togheter with his strength bonus in attack rolls with melee weapons. This solidifies the MAD of this class. (Sp) Drain Life. Once a day at lvl 2, and twice at level 6, The Blade Dancer can use magic to cause 1d8 for each 2 lvls damage and heal the same amount. DC = 10+Lvl+Cha. Fortitude reduce the damage to the half. On average this will do about 22.5 points of damage on average per use on a failed save. Not very useful. Since the healing from it is so low for the ECL. (Sp) Curse: the Bladedancer can use the Bestow Curse once a day at lvl 3, twice at lvl 6, and 3 at lvl 9, DC = 10+Lvl+Cha. Will negates. This is nice (Ex) Bleed: The Bladedancer gains de Two Weapon Rend Feat, as described in the Players Handbook 2, page 84. Two weapon rend is not very good since it would add only 3.5+ 1 1/2 str bonus but this class had MAD issue (Str, Dex, Cha) This will also hard to have it connect because this class has Medium progression. PRESTIGE CLASS TABLE: THE BLADEDANCER Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special 1 +0 +0 +2 +0 Dance of Fire, Precise strike 2 +1 +0 +3 +0 Dance of Light, Drain Life, 2 Dances 3 +2 +1 +3 +1 Dance of Inspiration, Curse 4 +3 +1 +4 +1 Dance of Mystic, Bleed 5 +3 +1 +4 +1 Dance of Concentration, 6 +4 +2 +5 +2 Dance of Warrior, Drain Life x2, Curse x2, 3 Dance 7 +5 +2 +5 +2 Dance of Fury 8 +6 +2 +6 +2 Dance of Poison, 9 +6 +3 +6 +3 Dance of Protection, Curse x3 10 +7 +3 +7 +3 Dance of Vampire, 4 Dances Most of the abilities come too late to make that much difference. There are a couple of good things in the class but most them have to be set up over multiple rounds to make work. You have the class use two long swords but there are no improvements on their usage. They seem to be there just for show and really do nothing much for the class. I haven't played lineage so I am not comparing it to that class. I think there need to be an overhaul on how this class operates. Since you made if for a bard you totally screw them out of caster levels.
enygmatic_me 03-26-07, 02:46 AM	Most of the abilities come too late to make that much difference some of the dances can only be gain at epic levels. There are a couple of good things in the class but most them have to be set up over multiple rounds to make work. You have the class use two long swords but there are no improvements on their usage. They seem to be there just for show and really do nothing much for the class. I haven't played lineage so I am not comparing it to that class. I think there need to be an overhaul on how this class operates. What has you thinking that some of these abilities don't come until epic levels? Dance of the Vampire only has a rank requirement of 17 ranks in dance, that is obtainable at 14th level. Dance of Poison is gained at ECL 18 and requires 15 ranks, something a 12th level character can obtain. Am I over looking something?
Leress 03-26-07, 03:33 AM	What has you thinking that some of these abilities don't come until epic levels? Dance of the Vampire only has a rank requirement of 17 ranks in dance, that is obtainable at 14th level. Dance of Poison is gained at ECL 18 and requires 15 ranks, something a 12th level character can obtain. Am I over looking something? No, you are right it was a miscalculation.
l3tts 03-26-07, 08:41 AM	A 2 lvl bard/ 4 level Fighter can be ready to take the prestige in lvl 7 I sorry but I dont know what is "MAD" and "TWF" The prestige its suposse to get more proficient in dances as well as with tow longswords, but I find it hard to make them balance. And all dances affect allies. And the BladeDancer in Lineage world its a class that makes lots of damage and gives dances ass buff for everyone in the party, but has low HP and Defense. How can I suit it to the D&D World? What has you thinking that some of these abilities don't come until epic levels? Dance of the Vampire only has a rank requirement of 17 ranks in dance, that is obtainable at 14th level. Dance of Poison is gained at ECL 18 and requires 15 ranks, something a 12th level character can obtain. Am I over looking something? But you have to keep on mind, that perform is not a class skill for fighters, so a 2 lvl bard can give +5 ranks to perform, and 4 lvl fighter an aditional +2, to make a total of +7, so you have a -2 to the maximum amount of ranks posible in perform. Even if was as you think, having 17 ranks that Dance of Vampire at lvl 14, the skill is gained at 10th level of the prestige, that means, 16 lvl for a Bar/Fig/BD or 20th lvl for a Bar/BD. What is more because of the Fighter Cross Skill, at lvl 16 The maximun perform ranks I could have is 17.
enygmatic_me 03-26-07, 11:52 AM	But you have to keep on mind, that perform is not a class skill for fighters, so a 2 lvl bard can give +5 ranks to perform, and 4 lvl fighter an aditional +2, to make a total of +7, so you have a -2 to the maximum amount of ranks posible in perform. Even if was as you think, having 17 ranks that Dance of Vampire at lvl 14, the skill is gained at 10th level of the prestige, that means, 16 lvl for a Bar/Fig/BD or 20th lvl for a Bar/BD. What is more because of the Fighter Cross Skill, at lvl 16 The maximun perform ranks I could have is 17. To be honest, I see no reason a fighter would take this class when there are other Prestige Classes that allow it similar features with no multi-classing required. In my opinion this Prestige Class really only appeals to Bards and non-multiclassed Bards at that. So calculating based on fighters not having a class skill that allows entrance easily is not a balancing factor. If you were to try balancing like that you would have to also take in to consideration that a Human could take the Able Learner Feat, a single level of Bard to obtain the skills and Bardic Music requirement and then entire the Prestige Class about two levels earlier then you are anticipating. Human Bard 1/Fighter 7 BAB +7 Bardic Music Max Perform 11 ranks 8 Feats (1 Racial, 3 Level, 4 Fighter Bonus) Problem is, I don't see why a character would build in this way when they could just build toward the Tempest Prestige Class or the other various Prestige Classes out there that will better improve their martial abilities. Also, in your example, the Max skill rank would still be 19 at 16th level since you have levels in a class that has perform as a class skill.
Leress 03-26-07, 02:42 PM	A 2 lvl bard/ 4 level Fighter can be ready to take the prestige in lvl 7 No that won't it doesn't meet the BAB requirements I sorry but I dont know what is "MAD" and "TWF" MAD-Multiple Attribute Deficiency TWF-Two Weapon Fighting The prestige its suposse to get more proficient in dances as well as with tow longswords, but I find it hard to make them balance. There are only two things in this class that improve the twf of this class and one is a dance. And all dances affect allies. I know that's why I compared to a bard and marshal. And the BladeDancer in Lineage world its a class that makes lots of damage and gives dances ass buff for everyone in the party, but has low HP and Defense. Well this class give some buffs but some are what a bard could do but better. The marshal also gives some of these buffs sooner. How can I suit it to the D&D World? Well since I don't know much about the class the only thing I can recommend is to take every ability this class gets and translate the best you can to DnD abilities and test it then scale it back if it too powerful. But you have to keep on mind, that perform is not a class skill for fighters, so a 2 lvl bard can give +5 ranks to perform, and 4 lvl fighter an aditional +2, to make a total of +7, so you have a -2 to the maximum amount of ranks posible in perform. Umm that wouldn't work since the that combination doesn't meet the requirement of BAB for the class. Even if was as you think, having 17 ranks that Dance of Vampire at lvl 14, the skill is gained at 10th level of the prestige, that means, 16 lvl for a Bar/Fig/BD or 20th lvl for a Bar/BD. What is more because of the Fighter Cross Skill, at lvl 16 The maximun perform ranks I could have is 17. And you screw the bard out of spellcasting and make having the bard levels useless because you have abilities like the bard but weaker, and now the character has these level of bard made nearly non functional in return for very poor TWF and dances that don't amount to much even if I were too do all 4 at once. Once that is over I am pretty much a expert with two longsword but without the custom skill list.
l3tts 03-26-07, 03:18 PM	I made a mistake, I have correct it BAB: +5 Perform: +7 I see too oposite opinions, one saying its too powerfull, and the other saying its too poor. I definitly going to forsake the spellcaster progression of the bard. Are dances well balanced or not? so I can give a Fighter's Base Attack progresion, whitout making him too unbalanced. And maybe some special to the use of TWF?
The_Shaman 03-26-07, 04:09 PM	Frankly, I'm worried about the stacking dances. Sure, without them (or with 1 or 2 dances), full BAB is not a problem. I don't know about overpowered, but the mechanic can get a bit confusing. Anyway, I presume that any feat that gives you longer bard music is a given :D. As for precise strike, I don't see it as being a weak ability at all. Basically, you get to add your dexterity to your attacks, which is imo better than WFinesse does if the character's strength is higher than 10. Given that most characters who wear light armors and even think of going in melee (without tons of precision damage) have good strength and dexterity, that brings the Bladedancer's attack bonus back in line with the full-BAB classes. BTW, consider giving the class evasion and maybe a parrying feature, if they are to last in battle..
l3tts 03-28-07, 09:00 AM	I'va changed the BAB Progression to be 1:1 as a Fighter. I delay the learning of Bestow Curse, cause I noticed that is a lvl 6 spell. I forgot about that. And give him One extra feat TWF oriented. ________________________________________ __________________________ I did this because the prestige was not giving more for the bard d6 -- d6 - not change BAB 2/3 -- BAB 2/3 - not change fRW -- fRw - Loosing Base Will progresion. Bardic Music -- Dances -- I thing this replacement is balanced Spell progresion -- Drain Life/Bestow Curse and some TWF feats. I thing that giving up the spells and giving a few Charisma based spells to a character that has to decide what to improve, charisma, strenght, constitution and dexterity, is not a dig deal.