Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Talisman 07-04-07, 11:14 PM	So I like quarterstaves (yes, the plural is "staves," not "staffs"). As written, it's an inferior weapon; any character with any TWF feats is better off wielding twin short swords. So I thought "Hey, why not make a quarterstaff-fighter PrC?" And here he is: the Oak Dancer. Oak Dancer Flashing blades, noble swords, savage axes--these are the weapons of the warrior. But some warriors wield a humbler weapon: a simple shaft of wood. In the hands of a skilled warrior, the quarterstaff is the equal of a longsword. And if that warrior is an oak dancer, the swordsman had better run. Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Save Save Save Abilities 1 +1 +2 +2 +0 Warrior equivalency, wheel of oak +1 2 +2 +3 +3 +0 Attune staff (1 option), drub 3 +3 +3 +3 +1 Swing the staff 4 +4 +4 +4 +1 Oaken storm, wheel of oak +2 5 +5 +4 +4 +1 Stunning staff 6 +6 +5 +5 +2 Attune staff (2 options), balance and brace 7 +7 +5 +5 +2 Balanced blow, wheel of oak +3 8 +8 +6 +6 +2 Deflecting spin, Zen staff 9 +9 +6 +6 +3 Share the Wheel 10 +10 +7 +7 +3 Attune staff (3 options), wheel of oak +4 Requirements Feats: Combat Expertise, Two-Weapon Defense, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (quarterstaff) Craft (Carpentry): 8 ranks Special: Must have defeated a foe of a CR at least equal to your level, wielding only a quarterstaff. Skill Points: 4 + Int modfier Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Profession (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str) Hit Die: d10 Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: An oak dancer gains no new weapon or armor proficiencies. Warrior Equivalency (Ex): If an oak dancer possesses fighter levels, he may stack his fighter levels with his oak dancer levels -2 for purposes of feat prerequisites. For instance, a fighter 6/oak dancer 4 counts as an 8th level fighter for purposes of prerequisites, and (assuming he possesses Weapon Specialization) is eligible to take the Greater Weapon Focus feat. If the oak dancer possesses ranger levels, he may stack his ranger levels with his oak dancer levels -2 for purposes of his ranger combat style, but only if he has selected two-weapon style. For example, a ranger 6/oak dancer 7 counts as an 11th-level ranger, and gains the combat style mastery ability (Greater Two-Weapon Fighting). If the oak dancer possesses monk levels, he may stack his monk levels with his oak dancer levels -2 for purposes of his flurry of blows ability and unarmored speed. For example, a monk 6/oak dancer 4 would have the flurry of blows ability and unarmored speed bonus of an 8th-level monk. If an oak dancer has ranger, fighter, and/or monk levels, he must choose which to stack with his oak dancer levels. This choice can never be changed. Wheel of Oak (Ex): An oak dancer is highly skilled at defense, adept at manuvering his quarterstaff between himself and the foe. On any round when the oak dancer makes a full attack with a quarterstaff or uses the full defense action with a quarterstaff in hand, he gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC. This bonus increases to +2 at 4th level, +3 at 7th, and +4 at 10th level. Attune Staff (Su): Starting at 2nd level, the Oak Dancer specializes in his weapon so exclusively that he is able to attune a staff to the weakness of an enemy. The ability requires a full round action and lasts for a number of minutes equal to the Oak Dancer's class level. The oak dancer's quarterstaff bypasses damage reduction as if it possessed any one of the following qualities: chaotic, evil, good, lawful, magic. Alignment-based qualities must match the oak dancer's alignment; i.e, an evil oak dancer could not use attune staff to grant his staff a good alignment. This attunement supercedes the properties of the staff for the duration of the ability, although intelligent weapons receive a Will save equalf to 10 + half the Oak Dancer's Class level + his Wisdom modifier. The Oak Dancer may use this ability a number of times per day equal to to his Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). The oak dancer may apply this ability to his staff multiple times (for instance, to make a quarterstaff effectively magic and chaotic), subject to his maximum number of uses per day. At 6th level the oak dancer may apply any two qualities to his staff as a single full-round action; this counts as one use of attune staff. At 10th level, the oak dancer may apply up to three qualities. Drub (Ex): Also at 2nd level the oak dancer learns to knock a foe unconscious instead of bludgeoning him to death. He may deal nonlethal damage with a quarterstaff without taking the usual -4 penalty on attack rolls. Swing the Staff (Ex): At 3rd level the oak dancer learns new ways of using his favored weapon. Instead of wielding the quarterstaff as a double weapon, he may shift his grip and employ it as a two-handed reach weapon. The oak dancer may shift between styles as a swift action on his turn. Oaken Storm (Ex): At 4th level the oak dancer learns to spin and twirl as he fights, enabling him to strike more rapidly at the expense of accuracy. When he makes a full attack with a quarterstaff, the oak dancer may make a single, extra attack at his highest attack bonus. If he does so, all his attacks (including the extra one and any attacks of opportunity) take a -4 penalty until his next turn. Stunning Staff (Ex): At 5th level the oak dancer gains the ability to stun his enemies with his powerful blows. This ability is identical to the Stunning Fist feat, except that it can only be used with a quarterstaff. If the oak dancer already possesses Stunning Fist and has monk levels, his oak dancer levels now stack with his monk levels for purposes of Stunning Fist save DC and uses per day. Balance and Brace (Ex): At 6th level the oak dancer learns to use the quarterstaff as a brace and a lever, granting him several benefits. Whenever he has the quarterstaff ready in both hands, he gains a +4 bonus on Balance and Jump checks as well as Strength or Dexterity checks made to resist a bull rush or trip attempt. Second, the oak dancer can use the quarterstaff to trip foes, despite the fact that it can not normally be used in this fashion. Balanced Blow (Ex): At 7th level the oak dancer has learned to use balance and leverage to his best advantage, allowing him to add his full Strength bonus to damage with his off-hand attack, but only when wielding a quarterstaff. Deflecting Spin (Ex): Whenever an 8th-level oak dancer uses the full defense action, she gains the benefit of the Deflect Arrows feat. If she already possesses this feat, she may use the ability one additional time each round. Zen Staff (Ex): At 8th level the oak dancer learns to let his intuition guide his strikes, placing them where they can do the most damage. Whenever he attacks using Combat Expertise, he deals extra damage equal to the penalty taken, to a maximum of his Intelligence or Wisdom modifier. The governing ability must be chosen when the oak dancer attains 8th level, and cannot be changed. Share the Wheel (Ex): At 9th level the oak dancer is so adept at spinning his staff that he can protect others. As a swift action on his turn, the oak dancer can transfer the dodge bonus provided by wheel of oak to a single ally adjacent to his square. The oak dancer himself does not gain the benefits of wheel of oak for that turn. The ally gains the benefits only so long as he remains adjacent to the oak dancer.
Tommyboy 07-05-07, 12:44 AM	I like it, especially with a long staff (C. Adventurer), no idea whether it's balenced or not. Why Craft: Carpentry?
Ketone 07-05-07, 12:54 AM	Very nice, I like the craft: carpentry prereq. More classes should require craft: basketweaving. I think it is a little overpowered, I'd say remove either the fighter level's stacking or the bonus feats and it'd be fine.
Aage 07-05-07, 12:57 AM	Perhaps you've already seen this, but since Quarterstaffs seems to be the theme here, might I interest you with this feat from the seerowan fighter discussion thread? Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Quarterstaff) [General] [Fighter] Benefit: Taken as an exotic weapon proficiency, you gain the following benefits to using a quarterstaff. You can wield a quarterstaff as a two-handed weapon. As a two-handed weapon, it has reach, so you can strike opponents 10 feet away with it. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, it can be used against an adjacent foe. You do not gain this benefit while using the quarterstaff as a double weapon. You can make trip attacks with the staff. Unlike most trip attempts, the opponent never receives an opportunity to trip you in return, so you never need to drop your weapon. When using a staff you get a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an opponent (including the roll to keep from being disarmed if the attack fails).
Talisman 07-05-07, 11:31 PM	Why Craft: Carpentry? It's the only skill that makes sense for crafting a quarterstaff. Also, it's a little unusual. I think it is a little overpowered, I'd say remove either the fighter level's stacking or the bonus feats and it'd be fine. Well, the warrior equivalency was added because the quarterstaff is a sub-optimal weapon, and I think fighter/oak dancers need the ability to get Greater Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Spec (before 22nd level). On the other hand, the bonus feats were added to fill in the "dead spot" at level 8 (with level 4 thrown in just because). I guess between the two, I'd drop the bonus feats, eh? Aage, is that feat official? I truly like it, but it replaces two of the major features of my PrC! :weep:
Aage 07-06-07, 12:36 PM	No, it's not official (at least not to my knowledge)... To my knowledge, it is a custom feat created in this thread: Fighter Discussion v3.0 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=728493)
Malchius 07-06-07, 12:50 PM	Cool, easily balanced if not underpowered in my opinion, played a staff fighter a while back and realized the damage was inefficient compared to what I could have been using. I like it.
teshen 07-06-07, 04:22 PM	Cool, easily balanced if not underpowered in my opinion, played a staff fighter a while back and realized the damage was inefficient compared to what I could have been using. I like it. Agreed. This prc has great flavor but it will be ineffective at higher levels even with the inclusion of additional ways to use the staff. Consider a minor flurry ability (since this character can't two weapon fight when he's using the quarterstaff as a reach weapon) or a slight hike in the damage or additional ways to bypass DR... since that becomes a thorn in the side at higher levels... Again, nice flavor here... keep it up. :)
zioth 07-06-07, 05:03 PM	craft (carpentry) would be useful for things like building houses. I'd change it to craft (woodworking). And then you could require the Oak Dancer to craft his own staff.
Partisan 07-06-07, 05:07 PM	has he selfdefense against someone who's attacking him with a banana?
Talisman 07-06-07, 09:59 PM	Agreed. This prc has great flavor but it will be ineffective at higher levels even with the inclusion of additional ways to use the staff. Consider a minor flurry ability (since this character can't two weapon fight when he's using the quarterstaff as a reach weapon) or a slight hike in the damage or additional ways to bypass DR... since that becomes a thorn in the side at higher levels... Well...warrior equivalency was intended to help out the damage hike, by granting access to Greater Weapon Spec. I like the flurry ability...maybe drop the bonus feats and add flurry. More ways to overcome DR...maybe adding Aligned Strike: the oak dancer's quarterstaff bypasses DR as if it had his alignment (i.e, as Chaotic and Good for a CG oak dancer)? This wouldn't stack with a staff that's already aligned, of course... craft (carpentry) would be useful for things like building houses. I'd change it to craft (woodworking). And then you could require the Oak Dancer to craft his own staff. Craft (carpentry) and Craft (woodworking) are virtually the same thing (I say this as a real-life carpenter, BTW!). I certainly wouldn't split hairs over it as a GM. And I like the concept of an oak dancer crafting his own staff, but I'm not certain how well it would work in-game...unless I add a VoP-esque feature requiring the oak dancer to eschew all other melee weapons, then add another class feature granting him gradually-improving magical abilities on his own staff! has he selfdefense against someone who's attacking him with a banana? :confused:
Blank_the_Bard 07-07-07, 01:08 PM	I really like this class. I've always been a fan of a warrior wielding just a staff and this captures a lot of that flavor. A couple of things: First, don't change the warrior equivalency. This is sorely needed and follows in the flavor of the warblade. To be honest, I wish they had given this ability to the spell-less paladin and ranger variants in Complete Champion. To balance it, though, you may want to specify that they may only take feats that will apply to the staff. Second, you might consider changing the Dodge prereq to Expertise. They're both useful feats, but this gives the character easier access to Improved Disarm and Improved Trip, the latter of which would be especially useful with the trip ability in the class. Third, is there any reason that the flurry is -3 rather than the -2 of most other classes that grant a flurry? I like the ability, but I didn't really see any reason to increase the attack penalty from that of any other class. Finally, I like the idea of attuning a staff to certain damage types, allowing the warrior to pick up any old stick and be able to hurt something, but one, adding the (magic) descriptor to a staff earlier in the class might work well, and allowing the attunement to change would be nice. It sort of ruins the whole "Look out! He's got a stick!" moment if the staff master thumps the bad guy and says "Damn! I chose adamantine, but this guy is only weak to cold iron!" or the same problem if you chose the (good) aspect of your alignment but suddenly need the (lawful). As such, here's my suggestion: Attune Staff (Su) An Oak Dancer specializes in his weapon so exclusively that he is able to attune a staff to the weakness of an enemy. The ability requires a full round action and lasts for a number of minutes equal to the Oak Dancer's class level. At 4th level, the attuned staff gains the (magic) descriptor for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. At 7th level, the Oak Dancer may choose one aspect of his alignment to confer onto his staff for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. At 10th level, the Oak Dancer may also choose to allow his staff to count as silver, cold iron, or adamantine for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. This attunement supercedes the properties of the staff for the duration of the ability, although intelligent weapons receive a Will save equalf to 10 + half the Oak Dancer's Class level + his Wisdom modifier. The Oak Dancer may use this ability a number of times per day equal to to his Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). So that's my suggestion. Any of this can be changed, but I thought Wisdom was the appropriate ability score to base this off of, and it gives the OD a bit more versatility.
Kaurus 07-07-07, 01:33 PM	Hm I donīt like the idea of Extention of Self (Su) and Master of the Staff (Su) at least without having special prerequisites (ok you have to attain a certain level) ;) Edit: the Attune Staff (Su) feels much better, but still seems a little overpowerd. I would like it much better to keep things like Su and normal abilities apart, but that maybe is a personal attitude. If you want to deal aligned damage, take the monk . . . What about 3 different paths for the PrC ? Make some of the abilities (or maybe level stacking in order to get base class abilities like you planned to do) dependent on the former class of the "quaterstaff wielder". The Weapon Focus Chain for Fighters (Lev 1 WS, 3 GWF, 5 GWS ?) The Two Weapon Fighting for Rangers (Lev 1 ITWF, 3 WS[/U], 5 GTWF ?) or just swap this two feat sets so that a Fighter gets the benefits he could only have as a Ranger and a Ranger gets the benefits he could only get as a Fighter ? The Flurry of Blows and Align and DR Things for Monks (only channeld into the quaterstaff like with ki weapons ? Or just give no level stacking and just Lev 1 Ki strike (magic), 3 Ki strike (lawfull), 5 Ki strike (adamantine) with a quaterstaff [although making the staff a ki weapon would make this possibel already]) [ok I just became aware of the fact that a monk can flurry with a qs anyhow] For Fighters and Rangers there still is the magical way to align the staff. You could allow followers of this PrC to have their Weapons made from Special Materials, allthough this is not allowed normally (But I see no reason besides weight why a qs could not be made from metal) . . . (Rangers could ask a Druid to cast Ironwood and use some amount of adamantine / cold iron / silver / mithral (reducing the malus for TWF ?), Fighters could find a special Weaponsmith) And maybe reduce the PrC to 5 levels ? because of the change of Extention of Self (Su) and Master of the Staff (Su)that have been left out ? For some inspiration on influencing weapons through PrC I think you could take a look at the Kensai PrC (I think itīs in The Complete Warrior) or like someone already mentioned Weapon Specialist or Expert ? (forgot the name). Well I have to admitt that my ideas at the moment are in a little disorder, but I like your idea of a special PrC very much, so maybe I will come back to this thread after I "meditated" a little bit ;) The prerequisites seem quite harsh to me, but maybe Iīm wrong (or focus to much on my "but a monk should be able to take / is suited best for this PrC" feeling ;))
Kaurus 07-07-07, 03:11 PM	Ok I havenīt had much time to let this thing settle a bit but I would maybe just recommend some other options / PrC abilities (-> without the need to meet prerequisites for these "feats"): All "feats" listed should be usable only with quarterstaves ! Whirlwind Attack only while using a quarterstaff and limiting the number of enemys you can attack to BAB / 2 (because of the possibility to allow qs as a reachweapon [16 foes is a little to much ;)]) or make the number of WWA PrC level dependent. Weapon Finesse only with qs. (I already experienced that moving your body "around" a staff is much easier then the otherway round). Power Attack with qs (already ok with RAW because qs is a 2-handed weapon) Cleave only with qs. Greater Cleave only with qs. Same for TWF, ITWF, TWFD, WS, GWF, GWS . . . Maybe like spiked chain ability to attack foes 10 ft. away and 5 ft. away in the same round (also AoO at both distances ?) Bouns to trip and disarm are good ideas of yours. Drub and Stunning Staff are also great ideas (although stunning is a very dangerous thing if the character also has sneak attack (and the ability to flurry :eek: [canīt remember if SA and flurry really stack, same for Power Attack and Flurry]) !!!) :) And I would just make WF (Quarterstaff) + craft (wood things) 2 + craft (weaponcarving) 2 and maybe TWF and low BAB a prerequisites (though this might be a little to low) (I like mixing Class and PrC level progression, have a look at the MAster Thrower for a class that mixes well with other classes but has high prerequisites too). To balance the power of the PrC against the power of other PrCs you could alos forbid the PrC level be higher than CL / 2. These low prerequisites would also make this a great PrC for NPC Commoners or Warriors (read Bandits) :lop: This way you could also play a ranger that can use bow and quarterstaff to equal extent (as ranger 11, qs user 5 (small) or 10 (big PrC)) One could arrange these feats in chains as usual and let the player pick them one after the other with the possibility to choose from only one or several chains at the same time. 1. Weapon Finesse - > Whirlwind Attack (strong chars have to take WF to be able to deal great amounts of dam, weak characters will like the ability to use WF with qs and do not deal the high amount of dam as strong chars) 2. Power Attack - > Improved Sunder / Improved Bullrush / Improved Overrun / Cleave - > Greater Cleave 3. TWF - > TWFD - > ITWF - > GTWF 4. WF - > WS - > GWF - > GWS 5. Combat Expertise - > Improved Trip / Improved Feint / Improved Disarm / Reach (only foes at 10ft. or 5 ft. every round same distance for AoO this round) - > Improved Reach (10ft. and 5 ft. in the same round, "stacks" with Whirlwind and also for AoO at both distances) bonus to trip, bonus to disarm, Drub and Stunning Staff should have fixed levels or belong to 2 groups that can be choosen from only at certain levels. I. trip +2 / disarm +2, II. Drub - > Stunning Edit: In order to incorporate of the very good Attune Staff (Su) idea Blank the Bard posted: III. Attune Staff (Su) chain: Magic - > Lawfull / Chaotic / Good / Evil (take two ?) - > Silver / Cold Iron / Adamantine (take two ?) but with a prerequisite like ki abilities of the monk or knowledge (arcana) 2, spellcraft 2 or craft magic weapon etc. ??? and only because I recognize the problem with not beeing able to craft QS from special materials without houseruling, but I donīt think that the Attune Staff (Su) must be a feat you can use in combat, but would like it better that the QS user PrC had the ability to craft a staff only in advance, else I think it is to versatile (ok I understand that "watchout he has a stick" theme, but that would still be true, with all the other special QS feats). /Edit But still no flurry because Whirlewind already does something similar. Always if you get the "general" feat due to other classes (like Combat Expertise as bonus feat from fighter or ITWF from ranger), you should be allowed to take another QS ability from the same chain.
Aage 07-07-07, 03:34 PM	Actually, Whirlwind with reach is already possible, so why should it be restricted here? With the dancing blade form stance and the Mithral Tornado strike (requires level 10 warblade, or level 9 warblade spending a feat on the stance) from Tome of Battle you can attack everybody within 10 feet (including adjacents)... To top it all off, mithral tornado is a standard action, and also gives +2 to hit on those attacks... Not to mentions that later on you could pick up adamantine hurricane for 2 attacks against all within reach, and +4 to each attack :D So Whirlwind with quarterstaff is definetely not unbalanced in any way...
Kaurus 07-07-07, 04:03 PM	Actually, Whirlwind with reach is already possible, so why should it be restricted here? Because if you use Whirlwind with a reach weapon (not couting the spiked chain) you can attack only foes exactly 10 ft. away (as a normal reach weapon can not attack foes 5 ft. away). With the dancing blade form stance and the Mithral Tornado strike (requires level 10 warblade, or level 9 warblade spending a feat on the stance) from Tome of Battle you can attack everybody within 10 feet (including adjacents)... To top it all off, mithral tornado is a standard action, and also gives +2 to hit on those attacks... Not to mentions that later on you could pick up adamantine hurricane for 2 attacks against all within reach, and +4 to each attack :D So Whirlwind with quarterstaff is definetely not unbalanced in any way... These are balancing questions, but as I see my proposal at the moment you could go the Weapon Finesse - > Whirlwind Attack + Combat Expertise - > Reach (only foes at 10ft. or 5 ft. every round same distance for AoO this round) - > Improved Reach (10ft. and 5 ft. in the same round, "stacks" with Whirlwind and also for AoO at both distances) Chain in only a few levels of QS PrC and if there are only low prerequisites this could be über-powered (and this chain lets you make AoO at both reaches which is normally not possible [maybe with spiked chain], because you wouldnīt be able to let go of a 2handed reach weapon and quickdraw a 1handed nonreach one). and as I see this PrC one could have completed this chain at CL 6 (Fighter 2 to get WF (QS), Combat Exp., Weapon Finesse and maybe TWF (if it is a prerequisite for QS PrC) + 1 level whatever + 3 Levels in QS PrC to get Whirlwind, Reach and Improved Reach) this seems powerfull enough, with still enough nice things to get later on. I donīt know if Warblade is an PrC and what the entryclasslevel would be, but even if it is a class, 9 + feat sounds harder to reach then 6 + 2 starting feats (human bonus and normal 1st level). [ok a friend yust told me that it is a normal class but still 9+feat vs 6+2feats]
teshen 07-07-07, 04:11 PM	Well...warrior equivalency was intended to help out the damage hike, by granting access to Greater Weapon Spec. I like the flurry ability...maybe drop the bonus feats and add flurry. Warrior equivalency will help, but not by adding things like (greater) weapon specialization. It's pretty easy to get better by using some sort of power attack/increased damage return combinations... A rogue gets better with his circumstancial average 3.5 per die of sneak attack. More ways to overcome DR...maybe adding Aligned Strike: the oak dancer's quarterstaff bypasses DR as if it had his alignment (i.e, as Chaotic and Good for a CG oak dancer)? This wouldn't stack with a staff that's already aligned, of course... Actually, it would be kind of cool if he just ignored an amount of DR equal to one half his prc level... I think this is underpowered, but it's versatile. I suggested the flurry because who hasn't seen somebody in a kung fu film using a staff to make multiple hits on one or two guys at the end of his reach... and I think it would work well for this fellow.
Bedlamtom 07-07-07, 04:48 PM	Why not just give the prc the ability to add the transmuting weapon feature from MIC? Then it could adapt to dr in the middle of fights. Depending on how you wish to do it, either the staff he has created and spent so much of himself in gains this ability, or put into his hands if you want him to be able to pick up any random tree branch and friar tuck the poor monsters.
Talisman 07-07-07, 10:47 PM	Second, you might consider changing the Dodge prereq to Expertise. They're both useful feats, but this gives the character easier access to Improved Disarm and Improved Trip, the latter of which would be especially useful with the trip ability in the class. D'oh! I included Dodge primarily to capture the "defensiveness" of the staff as a weapon. Somehow, I overlooked the fact that Combat Expertise is precisely what I wanted. Thanks. Third, is there any reason that the flurry is -3 rather than the -2 of most other classes that grant a flurry? I like the ability, but I didn't really see any reason to increase the attack penalty from that of any other class. Yes. The reason is that the OD already gets the "extra attack at -2" in the form of the prerequisite TWF feat (and feat chain). Oaken Storm effectively makes it "2 extra attacks at -5"...a slightly superior edge in exchange for a slightly greater penalty. Finally, I like the idea of attuning a staff to certain damage types, allowing the warrior to pick up any old stick and be able to hurt something, but one, adding the (magic) descriptor to a staff earlier in the class might work well, and allowing the attunement to change would be nice. It sort of ruins the whole "Look out! He's got a stick!" moment if the staff master thumps the bad guy and says "Damn! I chose adamantine, but this guy is only weak to cold iron!" or the same problem if you chose the (good) aspect of your alignment but suddenly need the (lawful). As such, here's my suggestion: I totally forgot "magic," primarily since most level 6+ warrior-types are going to have a magical melee weapon. Extention of Self functions for both parts of your alignment...if you're a CG OD, your QS (my, this post is getting full of acronyms) bypasses DR as both Chaotic and Good...not Chaotic or Good. That being said, I really your Attune Staff ability, and I'm going to modify and copy/paste it. I would like it much better to keep things like Su and normal abilities apart, but that maybe is a personal attitude. If you want to deal aligned damage, take the monk . . . That's like saying "if you want to use a bow, play a ranger" ;) Agree to disagree. And maybe reduce the PrC to 5 levels ? because of the change of Extention of Self (Su) and Master of the Staff (Su)that have been left out ? Not going to happen here. I've got too many abilities I want to cram into the OD. The prerequisites seem quite harsh to me, but maybe Iīm wrong (or focus to much on my "but a monk should be able to take / is suited best for this PrC" feeling ) I completely forgot about monks, but you're right. Softened the prereqs a little to encourage monkage. I like your virtual feat suggestions, Kaurus, but they basically boil down to bonus feats, and I fear they would overpower the OD completely. Limiting them to one weapon isn't really all that balancing...how many melee characters use more than their primary weapon anyway? And in this case, it's not even a weird, exotic weapon...you can literally make a new one if your is sundered. Drub and Stunning Staff are also great ideas (although stunning is a very dangerous thing if the character also has sneak attack (and the ability to flurry [canīt remember if SA and flurry really stack, same for Power Attack and Flurry]) !!!) Stun doesn't negate your Dex bonus, and therefore doesn't allow sneak atatcks. Sneak attack and flurry stack, in the sense that you can flurry and SA if you're flanking/attacking a flat-footed foe/etc. Same with power attack. You can absolutely power attack + flurry + sneak attack + stun, if you have all the abilities. Note that, because it's based off Stunning Fist, you can't use stunning staff more than once per round...no "flurry of stuns"! And while I like your "feat chains" idea, I'm not using it simply because that would make this PrC overpowered, unless I strip out some of the abilities he already has. I'll keep it in mind, though... Why not just give the prc the ability to add the transmuting weapon feature from MIC? Then it could adapt to dr in the middle of fights. Well...primarily because I don't have MIC. Depending on how you wish to do it, either the staff he has created and spent so much of himself in gains this ability, or put into his hands if you want him to be able to pick up any random tree branch and friar tuck the poor monsters. I have to say, I love the phrase "friar tuck the poor monsters." Edit: Added "Zen Staff"--feedback, please! I know it's potent, bu the QS is a substandard weapon. I'm a little worried about monk/Oak Dancers...not so much about fighters or rangers...
Kaurus 07-08-07, 08:44 AM	I suggested the flurry because who hasn't seen somebody in a kung fu film using a staff to make multiple hits on one or two guys at the end of his reach... and I think it would work well for this fellow. Thatīs why I did suggest some Whirlewind with QS, because I agree that attacking several guys around you should be a part of the OD, but as you said kung fu film, these guys are martial artists ("monks"). Flurry of blows includes to many other things, like unarmed attacks exchanged with (monkweapon) armed attacks, flurry of blows combined with TWF ! and thus is hard to understand [I bet you couldnīt spell out Oak Dancer bevor the need for a OD FAQ arises]. What I like about Talismans PrC as it is at the moment is that it is quite easy to understand and has the "standard" PrC format (my suggestion does not really fit the normal style in which PrC are presented). And yes, I also had the feeling that it does not really make a difference if you couldnīt use the QS feats with other weapons and could easily make it overpowerd (but I think one could balance it and that QS is maybe weak enough to cancel this overpwering *shrug*). Please let me explain why I would like a more open / variable approach at the abilities / feat / SUs OD gives a character: At the moment we are thinking of it as a PrC for Fighters and Rangers + Monk (kaurus) + Rouge (teshen), but even as I write this post Clerics (because of the "use Attune Staff (Su)Wisdombonus / day") and Wizards come to my mind (because I think the damage bonus from Zen Staff (Ex) should depend on Int (because of CE needing Int) and because it fits in a roleplaying sense in order to friar tuck someone :D or use a magical staff in melee) So this PrC is more of a "use the QS like it suites your class" thing to me, thus the "if you want to flurry with a QS take levels as a monk" remark or my "if you get some normal feat that makes a QS feat useless pick a new QS feat" idea. But I understand very well, that you have some other thing in mind (which is much more D&D than my approach). Maybe we should start some "playtesting" (like Aage allready did by comparing OD to the warblade) to see what OD can do in comparison to other classes and what a QS modified by OD can do when compared to magic weapons.
Kaurus 07-08-07, 09:01 AM	Got to run, now but I will post some more reply latter today
Aage 07-08-07, 09:09 AM	One thing you could do (if you feel like it), is change oaken storm to: "If the character has monk levels, he can stack his oak dancer levels with monk for determining his flurry of blows ability. If he does not have monk levels, he gains an extra attack when making a full attack action, but all attacks are made at a -3 penalty." Giving monks something nice ^^
JolanthusTrel 07-08-07, 09:29 AM	"But little does he know it's really a buck and a quarter quarterstaff" Man this looks really awesome. The quarterstaff is really such an underrated weapon. I'd play this PrC if I had a chance I have a Barbarian\Driud that would like this.
Blank_the_Bard 07-08-07, 10:48 AM	I have to say, I like the changes (and not even because you used a modified version of my ability :P) and as long as my next D&D game isn't completely warrior heavy, I'm going to give this class a try (assuming my DM agrees to it). Very nice work for all involved.
Kaurus 07-08-07, 02:05 PM	Kaurus: I would like it much better to keep things like Su and normal abilities apart, but that maybe is a personal attitude. If you want to deal aligned damage, take the monk . . . Talisman: That's like saying "if you want to use a bow, play a ranger" ;) Agree to disagree. Ok, I could not find a really good argument (Assasins can cast spells and Blackguards can sunder evil without having it as a prerequisite), but these PrC have these abilities as core abilities. Most of the Attune Staff (Su) effects can be achived through normal magic (only adamantine and cold iron can not be applied to a QS, silversheen will do the job for overcoming DR / silver). One could argue that the same is true for monks, but it suits the monk class ! At the moment the Attune Staff (Su) feels like some cool ability to have, but not as one that has any other "logical" backing up, than great to have. And it would really kick ass to have a double / 2 handed reach weapon that can overcome DR x / cold iron, has speed and wounding for about 4000 GP less that will be a adamantine or silver weapon in case you want it to, spearing you of buing two other weapons (or one other if you use sliversheen) which would cost you another 147180 gp (or just 75000 gp + 250 gp). Ok, this is quite a costly example, but if you had to overcome DR / lawfull or good it would be likewise costly, because of the extra +2 weapon bonus (ranging from 8000 gp extra to 56000 gp with speed + wounding). Talisman: I like your virtual feat suggestions, Kaurus, but they basically boil down to bonus feats, and I fear they would overpower the OD completely. Limiting them to one weapon isn't really all that balancing...how many melee characters use more than their primary weapon anyway? And in this case, it's not even a weird, exotic weapon...you can literally make a new one if your is sundered. If you would allow this PrC to use special staves made from metals, you could dump the attune staff ability or make attune staff a special item creation / permanent enhancement ability), so that they have to use several of their special selfmade staves and could only use the normal abilities with some oicked up staff (ok I will just quit complaining about the DR beating abilities of the OD, the least until we did some playtesting, sorry for being stubborn on this one). [COLOR="green"]Drub and Stunning Staff are also great ideas (although stunning is a very dangerous thing if the character also has sneak attack (and the ability to flurry [canīt remember if SA and flurry really stack, same for Power Attack and Flurry]) !!!) Talisman: Stun doesn't negate your Dex bonus, and therefore doesn't allow sneak attacks.(wrong) . . . (the others are right, as far as I know) "STUNNING FIST [GENERAL] Prerequisites: Dex 13, Wis 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +8. Benefit: You must declare that you are using this feat before you make your attack roll (thus, a failed attack roll ruins the attempt). Stunning Fist forces a foe damaged by your unarmed attack to make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Wis modifier), in addition to dealing damage normally. A defender who fails this saving throw is stunned for 1 round (until just before your next action). A stunned character can’t act, loses any Dexterity bonus to AC, and takes a –2 penalty to AC. You may attempt a stunning attack once per day for every four levels you have attained (but see Special), and no more than once per round. Constructs, oozes, plants, undead, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to critical hits cannot be stunned. Special: A monk may select Stunning Fist as a bonus feat at 1st level, even if she does not meet the prerequisites. A monk who selects this feat may attempt a stunning attack a number of times per day equal to her monk level, plus one more time per day for every four levels she has in classes other than monk. A fighter may select Stunning Fist as one of his fighter bonus feats." Talisman: And while I like your "feat chains" idea, I'm not using it simply because that would make this PrC overpowered, unless I strip out some of the abilities he already has. I'll keep it in mind, though... Thanks and I think you really have a point, this could easily be very overpowerd . . . - > playtesting Why not just give the prc the ability to add the transmuting weapon feature from MIC? Then it could adapt to dr in the middle of fights. Talisman: Well...primarily because I don't have MIC. Neither do I, could you maybe explain it a little bit (without giving away infos about non OGL material) ? Depending on how you wish to do it, either the staff he has created and spent so much of himself in gains this ability, or put into his hands if you want him to be able to pick up any random tree branch and friar tuck the poor monsters. Yes nice line and as you all can guess, I would vote for "that he has made himself and spent time with training and using it". Talisman: Edit: Added "Zen Staff"--feedback, please! I know it's potent, bu the QS is a substandard weapon. I'm a little worried about monk/Oak Dancers...not so much about fighters or rangers... Posted it in the other post as well, I like it, but would make it dependent on Int, makes it a little bit harder for monks to use the damage bonus and would maybe make OD interesting for wizards as well :) (and because Combat Expertise depends on Int).
Kaurus 07-08-07, 02:09 PM	One thing you could do (if you feel like it), is change oaken storm to: "If the character has monk levels, he can stack his oak dancer levels with monk for determining his flurry of blows ability. If he does not have monk levels, he gains an extra attack when making a full attack action, but all attacks are made at a -3 penalty." Giving monks something nice ^^ Good idea, to prevent abuse he must use the staff in say half the attacks he makes with the enhanced flurry ? Maybe level stacking for Stunning Staff too ?
Scion of Coldshard 07-08-07, 02:32 PM	Instead of granting a psuedo flurry ability I would personally add in an ability like the Lightning Maces feat from complete warrior. I would likely make it so that whenever you get a critical threat with one end of the staff then you get an immediate free attack with the other end with the same/appropriate bonuses. To me that would simulate the feature better than the flurry ability does ;)
Twylyght 07-08-07, 08:36 PM	Very nice class you have going here. Been brewing around a QS PrC myself and you managed to hit about everything I was thinking of doing in mine, more or less. Warrior Equivalency: I like this, give multiple path to enter the PrC, and lets them continue improving a primary ability from each. Need more classes that do this, VERY good catch making them pick one though, had a chuckle at the idea of a Fighter/Monk/Ranger entering in t the class to advance all 3 lol. Wheel of Oak solid ability, I like it. Attune Staff I can see the mechanical benefit of this ability, but it seems like this should be limited to the alignment and mgic DRs. The others seem a little to "transmutational" to me. I can see a warrior focusing his will into a weapon, but making it act as a diffrent material kinda hits a wall in my mind. Purely opinion there though. Even though a wooden weapon by default, id allow a player to shod one in special materials, metal clad staves were pretty common. It probally go at 1/2 or 2/3 book prices to do it (per each end) and not grant any benefits other than overcoming DR since it such a small part of the total construction. Id even allow multiple materials, imagine fancy twisted designs on the shodding. Add in a darkwood or iron wood core you got a fine weapon in the works. Swing the Staff: Handy, is this normal reach or like a spiked chain? Balance and Brace I like this too. balancing pole, pole vault, and a third leg! good stuff. Zen Staff cool ability, but I kinda agree that linking wisdom modifier to an intelligence based ability is kind of odd and most likely less usefull to fighters drawn to the class. Perhaps make it a Canny/Zen staff choice. You can choose to use either Int or Wis, but can not change it after the choice is made. One ability I had one what I was working up that might be usefull to you was something like this. Deflecting Spin: While using the full defense action, you gain the benefit of the Deflect Arrows feat. If you already posses this feat, you may use the ability one additional time each round.
Talisman 07-08-07, 10:46 PM	At the moment we are thinking of it as a PrC for Fighters and Rangers + Monk (kaurus) + Rouge (teshen), but even as I write this post Clerics (because of the "use Attune Staff (Su)Wisdombonus / day") and Wizards come to my mind (because I think the damage bonus from Zen Staff (Ex) should depend on Int (because of CE needing Int) and because it fits in a roleplaying sense in order to friar tuck someone or use a magical staff in melee) So this PrC is more of a "use the QS like it suites your class" thing to me, thus the "if you want to flurry with a QS take levels as a monk" remark or my "if you get some normal feat that makes a QS feat useless pick a new QS feat" idea. My goal with the Oak Dancer is "quarterstaff warrior." Thus, I am primarily concerned with fighters, rangers and monks. The other classes sacrifice a lot of their core abilities (paladin = smite evil, rogue = sneak attack and skills, spellcasters = spellcasting) if they take OD levels, so I'm less worried about problems there. If you're playing a wizard 5/oak dancer 5, something's odd already. "But little does he know it's really a buck and a quarter quarterstaff" Or perhaps a twothirdsstaff? I have to say, I like the changes (and not even because you used a modified version of my ability ) and as long as my next D&D game isn't completely warrior heavy, I'm going to give this class a try (assuming my DM agrees to it). Coolness! If you remember, PM me and let me know how it works out! I stand corrected on the matter of Stunning Fist. Can you tell I've never played a monk? Still, I don't think it's much of a balance issue. A rogue would have to go through 5 levels of this PrC to get the Stunning Staff ability...if you want to stun + flurry + sneak attack, you can get all of that with one level of monk. So, no one thinks Zen Staff is overpowered? I hesitate to make it Int-based, because that just doesn't make sense to me (OK, the whole "Wisdom bonus to damage" thing makes little logical sense...but a fighter/ranger/monk type warrior is typically more "wise" than "smart"). Please note that Warrior Equivalency is now monk-friendly, and allows you to stack monk levels with (OD levels -2) for purposes of flurrying. I dunno about stacking Stunning Fist/Staff...I don't want this to be the default monk PrC. Attune Staff I can see the mechanical benefit of this ability, but it seems like this should be limited to the alignment and mgic DRs. The others seem a little to "transmutational" to me. I can see a warrior focusing his will into a weapon, but making it act as a diffrent material kinda hits a wall in my mind. Purely opinion there though. You're right. Dropped the special materials; you OD's fighting fey or werewolves will just have to house-rule it! Swing the Staff: Handy, is this normal reach or like a spiked chain? Normal reach. The description says "reach weapon." Spiked chains are a specific example to the normal rules for reach weapons. Zen Staff cool ability, but I kinda agree that linking wisdom modifier to an intelligence based ability is kind of odd and most likely less usefull to fighters drawn to the class. Perhaps make it a Canny/Zen staff choice. You can choose to use either Int or Wis, but can not change it after the choice is made. :confused: Where is the "Intelligence based ability" you speak of? The only thing Int-based here is the Combat Expertise prereq. Deflecting Spin: While using the full defense action, you gain the benefit of the Deflect Arrows feat. If you already posses this feat, you may use the ability one additional time each round. Me likey! Copied and pasted!
Twylyght 07-08-07, 11:46 PM	Where is the "Intelligence based ability" you speak of? The only thing Int-based here is the Combat Expertise prereq. Yeah I meant that the Zen Staff ability only functions while using combat expertise, which requires an above average Intelligence to quallify for. Atleast the option should be present to apply the attribute linked to the prequisite feat should be available. Also with WIS already applied to a few earlier abilities (Stunning staff, Imbue staff) allowing the ability to pay off on the INT you needed to gain the attached feat (and also the class itself) works out pretty well, I'd keep it as an option between the two upon gaining 8th level. A second thought on the ablility in general, id make Zen Staff work kind of like power attack too. I mean to say the attribute bonus to damage should be limited by the attack penalty you take to activate combat expertise. Otherwise a high WIS character, would add his full modifier to damage for taking a -1 to hit, a really good trade, too good.
Talisman 07-08-07, 11:54 PM	A second thought on the ablility in general, id make Zen Staff work kind of like power attack too. I mean to say the attribute bonus to damage should be limited by the attack penalty you take to activate combat expertise. Otherwise a high WIS character, would add his full modifier to damage for taking a -1 to hit, a really good trade, too good. Good point. So edited.
Kaurus 07-09-07, 06:36 AM	Yeah I meant that the Zen Staff ability only functions while using combat expertise, which requires an above average Intelligence to quallify for. Atleast the option should be present to apply the attribute linked to the prequisite feat should be available. Also with WIS already applied to a few earlier abilities (Stunning staff, Imbue staff) allowing the ability to pay off on the INT you needed to gain the attached feat (and also the class itself) works out pretty well, I'd keep it as an option between the two upon gaining 8th level. A second thought on the ablility in general, id make Zen Staff work kind of like power attack too. I mean to say the attribute bonus to damage should be limited by the attack penalty you take to activate combat expertise. Otherwise a high WIS character, would add his full modifier to damage for taking a -1 to hit, a really good trade, too good. 1. Glad you dropped the special materials thing from Attune Staff : ) And I would definitly allow "metal clad staves" like Twylyght (although at normal doubleweapon (1 or 2 head) price ;)) 2. As Twylyght mentions, you allready have to have an Int score of 13 to qualify for OD, so I dont think that fighters training for it will have high Wis (keep in mind that they need Dex 15 for TWF + TWFD too). Having Zen use Int would favor fighters over monks and Rangers who will have quite high Wis because their core abilities / skill / spells - > balanicing issue between f vs. r / r ! (thatīs why I would make it Int and not let the player choose though). 3. Zen Staff usage: I would just use it exactly the way Power Attack is used. Not matter if you use CE to increase AC or not this round, your allowed to lower to hit and increase dam (x1 main-hand x1/2 off-hand or x 2 for 2-handed attacks). Thatīs easy to understand and use (because it is the same as with PA).
Ultima0071 10-09-07, 06:34 PM	So I like quarterstaves (yes, the plural is "staves," not "staffs"). As written, it's an inferior weapon; any character with any TWF feats is better off wielding twin short swords. So I thought "Hey, why not make a quarterstaff-fighter PrC?" And here he is: the Oak Dancer. Hmm, can't wait to read it! Oak Dancer Flashing blades, noble swords, savage axes--these are the weapons of the warrior. But some warriors wield a humbler weapon: a simple shaft of wood. In the hands of a skilled warrior, the quarterstaff is the equal of a longsword. And if that warrior is an oak dancer, the swordsman had better run. Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Save Save Save Abilities 1 +1 +2 +0 +0 Warrior equivalency, wheel of oak +1 2 +2 +3 +0 +0 Attune staff (1 option), drub 3 +3 +3 +1 +1 Swing the staff 4 +4 +4 +1 +1 Oaken storm, wheel of oak +2 5 +5 +4 +1 +1 Stunning staff 6 +6 +5 +2 +2 Attune staff (2 options), balance and brace 7 +7 +5 +2 +2 Balanced blow, wheel of oak +3 8 +8 +6 +2 +2 Deflecting spin, Zen staff 9 +9 +6 +3 +3 Share the Wheel 10 +10 +7 +3 +3 Attune staff (3 options), wheel of oak +4 Why only good fortitude saves? I'm sure his reflexes are good since he's using a quarterstaff (spelling?). Requirements Feats: Combat Expertise, Two-Weapon Defense, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (quarterstaff) Craft (Carpentry): 8 ranks Special: Must have defeated a foe of a CR at least equal to your level, wielding only a quarterstaff. No objections here. ;) Skill Points: 4 + Int modfier Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Profession (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str) Hit Die: d10 Fine with me. Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: An oak dancer gains no new weapon or armor proficiencies. Just a thought: maybe you could make a greater quarterstaff. It could be a masterwork weapon with some other advantages. He would, of course, be proficient with it. Warrior Equivalency (Ex): If an oak dancer possesses fighter levels, he may stack his fighter levels with his oak dancer levels -2 for purposes of feat prerequisites. For instance, a fighter 6/oak dancer 4 counts as an 8th level fighter for purposes of prerequisites, and (assuming he possesses Weapon Specialization) is eligible to take the Greater Weapon Focus feat. If the oak dancer possesses ranger levels, he may stack his ranger levels with his oak dancer levels -2 for purposes of his ranger combat style, but only if he has selected two-weapon style. For example, a ranger 6/oak dancer 7 counts as an 11th-level ranger, and gains the combat style mastery ability (Greater Two-Weapon Fighting). If the oak dancer possesses monk levels, he may stack his monk levels with his oak dancer levels -2 for purposes of his flurry of blows ability. For example, a monk 6/oak dancer 4 would have the flurry of blows ability of an 8th-level monk. If an oak dancer has ranger, fighter, and/or monk levels, he must choose which to stack with his oak dancer levels. This choice can never be changed. No objections here. Wheel of Oak (Ex): An oak dancer is highly skilled at defense, adept at manuvering his quarterstaff between himself and the foe. On any round when the oak dancer makes a full attack or uses the full defense action, he gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC. This bonus increases to +2 at 4th level, +3 at 7th, and +4 at 10th level. Change it so he doesn't accumulate the bonuses if he doesn't use a quarterstaff to make the action. Attune Staff (Su): Starting at 2nd level, the Oak Dancer specializes in his weapon so exclusively that he is able to attune a staff to the weakness of an enemy. The ability requires a full round action and lasts for a number of minutes equal to the Oak Dancer's class level. The oak dancer's quarterstaff bypasses damage reduction as if it possessed any one of the following qualities: chaotic, evil, good, lawful, magic. Alignment-based qualities must match the oak dancer's alignment; i.e, an evil oak dancer could not use attune staff to grant his staff a good alignment. This attunement supercedes the properties of the staff for the duration of the ability, although intelligent weapons receive a Will save equalf to 10 + half the Oak Dancer's Class level + his Wisdom modifier. The Oak Dancer may use this ability a number of times per day equal to to his Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). The oak dancer may apply this ability to his staff multiple times (for instance, to make a quarterstaff effectively magic and chaotic), subject to his maximum number of uses per day. At 6th level the oak dancer may apply any two qualities to his staff as a single full-round action; this counts as one use of attune staff. At 10th level, the oak dancer may apply up to three qualities. Fine. Drub (Ex): Also at 2nd level the oak dancer learns to knock a foe unconscious instead of bludgeoning him to death. He may deal nonlethal damage with a quarterstaff without taking the usual -4 penalty on attack rolls. Fine with me. Swing the Staff (Ex): At 3rd level the oak dancer learns new ways of using his favored weapon. Instead of wielding the quarterstaff as a double weapon, he may shift his grip and employ it as a two-handed reach weapon. The oak dancer may shift between styles as a swift action on his turn. Ok. Oaken Storm (Ex): At 4th level the oak dancer learns to spin and twirl as he fights, enabling him to strike more rapidly at the expense of accuracy. When he makes a full attack with a quarterstaff, the oak dancer may make a single, extra attack at his highest attack bonus. If he does so, all his attacks (including the extra one and any attacks of opportunity) take a -3 penalty until his next turn. Make it a -4. Other than that, it's fine. Stunning Staff (Ex): At 5th level the oak dancer gains the ability to stun his enemies with his powerful blows. This ability is identical to the Stunning Fist feat, except that it can only be used with a quarterstaff. Fine. Balance and Brace (Ex): At 6th level the oak dancer learns to use the quarterstaff as a brace and a lever, granting him several benefits. Whenever he has the quarterstaff ready in both hands, he gains a +4 bonus on Balance and Jump checks as well as Strength or Dexterity checks made to resist a bull rush or trip attempt. Second, the oak dancer can use the quarterstaff to trip foes, despite the fact that it can not normally be used in this fashion. He should at least have a -2 to trip his foes. Balanced Blow (Ex): At 7th level the oak dancer has learned to use balance and leverage to his best advantage, allowing him to add his full Strength bonus to damage with his off-hand attack, but only when wielding a quarterstaff. Ok. Deflecting Spin (Ex): Whenever an 8th-level oak dancer uses the full defense action, she gains the benefit of the Deflect Arrows feat. If she already possesses this feat, she may use the ability one additional time each round. Fine. Zen Staff (Ex): At 8th level the oak dancer learns to let his intuition guide his strikes, placing them where they can do the most damage. Whenever he attacks using Combat Expertise, he deals extra damage equal to the penalty taken, to a maximum of his Intelligence or Wisdom modifier. The governing ability must be chosen when the oak dancer attains 8th level, and cannot be changed. Fine, kind of underpowered. Share the Wheel (Ex): At 9th level the oak dancer is so adept at spinning his staff that he can protect others. As a swift action on his turn, the oak dancer can transfer the dodge bonus provided by wheel of oak to a single ally adjacent to his square. The oak dancer himself does not gain the benefits of wheel of oak for that turn. The ally gains the benefits only so long as he remains adjacent to the oak dancer. Fine. Your class is underpowered. You can easily get better bonuses from taking some feats or another PrC. I would add some more bonuses or more abilties.
Talisman 10-09-07, 09:48 PM	Hey, thanks for the thorough PEACHing! (Or, rather, EACHing) Why only good fortitude saves? I'm sure his reflexes are good since he's using a quarterstaff (spelling?). Umm...because I was looking at the fighter at tehe time, not the ranger or monk. Changed. Just a thought: maybe you could make a greater quarterstaff. It could be a masterwork weapon with some other advantages. He would, of course, be proficient with it. No; I like the idea, but this PrC is all about making the humble, common quarterstaff something to respect. Change it so he doesn't accumulate the bonuses if he doesn't use a quarterstaff to make the action. D'oh! Done. Make it a -4. Other than that, it's fine. I guess the math is easier. Done. He should at least have a -2 to trip his foes. Why? Fine. Your class is underpowered. You can easily get better bonuses from taking some feats or another PrC. I would add some more bonuses or more abilties. Well, I added goof Ref saves, as you suggested. Another other suggestions on minor bennies?