"The name is Bond... no wait, that's not it..." [PEACH] [Archive] - Wizards Community

"The name is Bond... no wait, that's not it..." [PEACH] [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
M-bark
01-29-08, 02:49 PM First attempt at making a PrC. It probably shows, too. Hope you people like it. Suggestions and comments are most welcome. :)

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DETECTIVE

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c5/Fleming007impression.jpg

How does that teacher always knows you are lying? Why does that girl next door glare at you just after you did something bad but you just know she couldn’t have seen it? And how come your older brother never is around when you want to smack him in the face? The answer to all these is simple: they are detectives, elusive figures with powers that allow them to know things before others do. It are such persons who tip the balance in wars by uncovering valuable pieces of knowledge, but they are also people who – if you just offer them a small fee – will find out if that guy in the dark corner is, or if your spouse has been cheating on you again.
Hit Dice: d6.

Requirements:
To qualify to become a detective, a character must fulfill the following criteria:
Race: Any humanoid or native outsider.
Skills: Bluff 10, Diplomacy 7 ranks, Gather Information 10 ranks, Search 10 ranks.
Powers/Spells: Able to cast 1st-level spells or use 1st level powers.
Languages: Must speak at least 6 languages.

Class Skills:
The detective’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Knowledge (any, all skills taken separately) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language (n/a), Spot (Wis) and Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at Each Level: 8 + Int modifier.

The Detective
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1 +0 +0 +2 +2 Spell/Psi-like Abilities, Trap Sense +1
2 +1 +0 +3 +3 Spell/Psi-like Abilities, Improvisation
3 +2 +1 +3 +3 Spell/Psi-like Abilities, Psychology
4 +3 +1 +4 +4 Spell/Psi-like Abilities, Trap Sense +2
5 +3 +1 +4 +4 Spell/Psi-like Abilities, Expert Interrogator
6 +4 +2 +5 +5 Spell/Psi-like Abilities
7 +5 +2 +5 +5 Spell/Psi-like Abilities, Trap Sense +3
8 +6 +2 +6 +6 Spell/Psi-like Abilities, Improved Improvisation
9 +6 +3 +6 +6 Spell/Psi-like Abilities
10 +7 +3 +7 +7 Spell/Psi-like Abilities, Elevated Psychology, Trap Sense +4

Weapon and Armour Proficiency: A detective is proficient with all simple weapons, as well as the hand crossbow.

Improvisation: A detective has a natural talent for improvising. At 2nd level, a detective’s penalty on attack rolls with improvised weapons decreases to -2.

Psychology (Ex): The detective has grown a special knack for psychology over time, and has thusly become great at second-guessing things that have to do with people and their behavior. This ability functions in roughly the same way as a Bardic Knowledge check. It can only be used to acquire information regarding humanoids, however, not any other creatures, and it also cannot be used to acquire information about items, unless they are directly related to a humanoid. Substitute the bard’s class levels with the detective’s class levels. The detective gains a +2 bonus on this check if he has 5 ranks in Knowledge (local).

Expert Interrogator (Ex): The detective is an expert interrogator, and can notice minute details in a subject’s behavior and small physiological changes. Whenever a detective is questioning a person who is lying, a detective can make a Sense Motive check as normal, but he also gets to make a Heal check to notice tiny changes in the interrogated person’s heartbeat (DC 23), sweating (DC 18), and voice or quickness of breath (DC 15), giving an indication that the person they’re talking to is selling them a load of bull, and is thus worthy of further investigation.

Elevated Psychology (Ex): The detective has further indulged in the workings of the psyche. He can now acquire information regarding any kind of creature (functions in the same manner as Psychology, see above), instead of just humanoids, as well as anticipate what their target is going to do next. Roll a d% and add the detective’s class levels twice, as well as his Intelligence modifier and Wisdom modifier. On a result of 51-80, the detective knows three optional courses of action the target might take. On a result of 81-100, he knows exactly what the target is going to do for the next 24 hours. On a result of 1-10, the detective receives information that is the contrary to what the target is likely to do next. The detective receives no information on a result of 11-50.

Improved Improvisation: After being on the job for so long, a detective gets better and better in his improvising in certain situations. At 7th level, a detective's penalty on attack rolls with improvised weapons completely disappears.

Spell-like Ability (arcane): At some class levels, a detective gains spell-like abilities usable 3/day if he has levels in an arcane spellcasting class. Caster level equals the detective's character levels + any arcane spellcasting levels the detective might have. The spells are Charisma-based.

Level 1: Detect Poison
Level 2: Detect Secret Doors
Level 3: Detect Undead
Level 5: Detect Magic
Level 6: Discern Location
Level 8: Detect Thoughts
Level 10: Detect Scrying

Spell-like Ability (divine): At some class levels, a detective gains spell-like abilities usable 3/day if he has levels in a divine spellcasting class. Caster level equals the detective's character levels + any divine spellcasting levels the detective might have. The spells are Charisma-based.

Level 1: Detect Poison, Discern Lies
Level 3: Detect Undead
Level 5: Detect Magic
Level 6: Discern Location
Level 7: Detect Chaos, Detect Evil, Detect Good, Detect Law
Level 9: Detect Snares and Pits, Detect Animals or Plants

Psi-like Ability: At some class levels, a detective gains psi-like abilities usable 3/day. Manifester level equals the detective's class levels + any manifester levels the detective might have. The powers are Charisma-based.

Level 4: Detect Teleportation
Level 5: Detect Psionics
Level 8: Detect Hostile Intent
Level 10: Detect Remote Viewing
seventh_scroll
01-29-08, 03:59 PM Hmm. I like the general idea, but it seems a little limited. Why the poor attack progression for a class whose main features seem to be using improvised weapons? Why not give it a spell list that has many detect spells, but is not limited to them? Is magical detection his only reliable method of uncovering clues? If it were up to me, I'd make this a skill based PrC with various extraordinary or supernatural talents that allow new uses of the skills, such as a Sense Motive check to uncover surface thoughts, or a Heal check in place of a failed Sense Motive to detect lies due to minor anatomical changes(blood pressure, light sweat, etc.). Magic may play a part in his amazing deductive skills, but sheer wit and self-training make up the majority.
M-bark
01-29-08, 04:35 PM I gave the Detective the poor attack progression, because it doesn't strike me really as a martial type of class. I suppose a BAB progression as a Wizard is a bit too low, yes, because the only ones who have that are pretty much only pure casters, whilst lesser casters and more skill-focused classes have a BAB progression as Clerics, so I guess I'll change that. Do note though that they aren't really meant to use only improvised weapons. It's just that they are better at using those than other classes. ;)

Your other suggestions are good ones, too. I think I'll still keep the Detect and Discern spells (perhaps turn them into a spell list instead of spell-like abilities), but add class features like "Psychology" or "Interrogation Expert" (as with your Sense Motive suggestion). I'll have to think more thoroughly about that before putting that up, though.

EDIT: added the hand crossbow under Weapon Proficiencies, because I thought it somewhat fit. Perhaps that is because it really resembles a handgun?
M-bark
01-30-08, 02:58 AM Added some extra class features.
M-bark
02-01-08, 11:02 AM :bump:
DonThelonious
02-01-08, 11:28 AM I like this class but it seems more like an NPC PrC than one meant for players. That is unless you play a lot of murder/mystery type adventures. Good job for a first class though.

Given that the class has next to no advancement in combat I would suggest at least letting players advance their spell casting, or if they are more rogue type than perhaps sneak attack. Otherwise this seems to a purely NPC PrC. If that was the intent than WOW! I would hate to be a member of the party that gets one of these on it tail, you would never be able to shake him;).
M-bark
02-02-08, 04:10 AM I have to say this class wasn't entirely meant as an NPC PrC (I must say in all honesty I have never heard of an NPC PrC), but it really would work out well. As you said, a party would never be able to shake him. ;)

And yes, I do realize that the class, as it is, works best in a lot of murder/mystery type adventures.

I suppose that advancing spellcasting/psionic ability as you advance through the class would make it a better PrC for a PC. I'll look over it again and see if I perhaps could add some features that would make it more attractive for play. Sneak attack doesn't really seem right for this PrC. Perhaps trap sense?
DonThelonious
02-02-08, 12:45 PM Trap Sense definitely. Sherlock Holmes and Mr. Bond both knew when they were about to fall into a trap. I would also consider giving them Disable Device, so they can diffuse bombs so to speak.

I have a small question though, why does the Detective get psi-like abilities when the class has no psionic requirement? I understand the reason flavor-wise, but overall they just seem a little bit random. I would either drop the psionics entirely or split the abilities out into separate progressions (IE: if the character used psionics to get into the class then he would get the psionics table, if he used arcane then the arcane table). These are just some thoughts.
M-bark
02-02-08, 06:45 PM I suppose that's a good idea: give them the psionic abilities if they have manifester levels, arcane detect spells if they have arcane spellcasting levels and divine detect spells if they have divine spellcasting levels (because the spell-like abilities include detect/discern spells from both the wizard/sorcerer list as the cleric list). And if they have multiple of the aforementioned three kinds, they get multiple of those spell/psi-like abilities. At first I was just going to have them have Spell-like Abilities and have them treat the normally psionic detect powers as spells. I might turn back to that if things prove not to work so well with how I put it up now.

Trap sense is definately going to go in there. Disable Device is also a good one.
DonThelonious
02-04-08, 08:40 AM I think this class would make make an awesome combo with the bard. Nothing would get past you, and if there is information on something you can always get it.

Class is shaping up nicely;)
M-bark
02-06-08, 04:58 AM Well, for now, I think the PrC is fine enough. I guess it'll take some playtesting to see if some tiny ability may be added.

Thanks for the comments anyways. :)
Danahan
02-27-08, 09:38 AM I definitely want to use this for my upcoming gothic horror campaign, albeit some tweaking! I haven’t seen too many classes with this sort of flavor – very Lovecraftian. Keep up the great work!
M-bark
02-28-08, 02:22 PM I definitely want to use this for my upcoming gothic horror campaign, albeit some tweaking! I haven’t seen too many classes with this sort of flavor – very Lovecraftian. Keep up the great work!

Thanks a lot! :D I must say I haven't read any of Lovecraft's work, although I certainly intend to do so. I recently have come across some stuff in official DnD material that would fit this class very well, so I might someday post a revised version of this or a non-magical/psionic one.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
M-bark 01-29-08, 02:49 PM	First attempt at making a PrC. It probably shows, too. Hope you people like it. Suggestions and comments are most welcome. :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DETECTIVE http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c5/Fleming007impression.jpg How does that teacher always knows you are lying? Why does that girl next door glare at you just after you did something bad but you just know she couldn’t have seen it? And how come your older brother never is around when you want to smack him in the face? The answer to all these is simple: they are detectives, elusive figures with powers that allow them to know things before others do. It are such persons who tip the balance in wars by uncovering valuable pieces of knowledge, but they are also people who – if you just offer them a small fee – will find out if that guy in the dark corner is, or if your spouse has been cheating on you again. Hit Dice: d6. Requirements: To qualify to become a detective, a character must fulfill the following criteria: Race: Any humanoid or native outsider. Skills: Bluff 10, Diplomacy 7 ranks, Gather Information 10 ranks, Search 10 ranks. Powers/Spells: Able to cast 1st-level spells or use 1st level powers. Languages: Must speak at least 6 languages. Class Skills: The detective’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Knowledge (any, all skills taken separately) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language (n/a), Spot (Wis) and Use Rope (Dex). Skill Points at Each Level: 8 + Int modifier. The Detective Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special 1 +0 +0 +2 +2 Spell/Psi-like Abilities, Trap Sense +1 2 +1 +0 +3 +3 Spell/Psi-like Abilities, Improvisation 3 +2 +1 +3 +3 Spell/Psi-like Abilities, Psychology 4 +3 +1 +4 +4 Spell/Psi-like Abilities, Trap Sense +2 5 +3 +1 +4 +4 Spell/Psi-like Abilities, Expert Interrogator 6 +4 +2 +5 +5 Spell/Psi-like Abilities 7 +5 +2 +5 +5 Spell/Psi-like Abilities, Trap Sense +3 8 +6 +2 +6 +6 Spell/Psi-like Abilities, Improved Improvisation 9 +6 +3 +6 +6 Spell/Psi-like Abilities 10 +7 +3 +7 +7 Spell/Psi-like Abilities, Elevated Psychology, Trap Sense +4 Weapon and Armour Proficiency: A detective is proficient with all simple weapons, as well as the hand crossbow. Improvisation: A detective has a natural talent for improvising. At 2nd level, a detective’s penalty on attack rolls with improvised weapons decreases to -2. Psychology (Ex): The detective has grown a special knack for psychology over time, and has thusly become great at second-guessing things that have to do with people and their behavior. This ability functions in roughly the same way as a Bardic Knowledge check. It can only be used to acquire information regarding humanoids, however, not any other creatures, and it also cannot be used to acquire information about items, unless they are directly related to a humanoid. Substitute the bard’s class levels with the detective’s class levels. The detective gains a +2 bonus on this check if he has 5 ranks in Knowledge (local). Expert Interrogator (Ex): The detective is an expert interrogator, and can notice minute details in a subject’s behavior and small physiological changes. Whenever a detective is questioning a person who is lying, a detective can make a Sense Motive check as normal, but he also gets to make a Heal check to notice tiny changes in the interrogated person’s heartbeat (DC 23), sweating (DC 18), and voice or quickness of breath (DC 15), giving an indication that the person they’re talking to is selling them a load of bull, and is thus worthy of further investigation. Elevated Psychology (Ex): The detective has further indulged in the workings of the psyche. He can now acquire information regarding any kind of creature (functions in the same manner as Psychology, see above), instead of just humanoids, as well as anticipate what their target is going to do next. Roll a d% and add the detective’s class levels twice, as well as his Intelligence modifier and Wisdom modifier. On a result of 51-80, the detective knows three optional courses of action the target might take. On a result of 81-100, he knows exactly what the target is going to do for the next 24 hours. On a result of 1-10, the detective receives information that is the contrary to what the target is likely to do next. The detective receives no information on a result of 11-50. Improved Improvisation: After being on the job for so long, a detective gets better and better in his improvising in certain situations. At 7th level, a detective's penalty on attack rolls with improvised weapons completely disappears. Spell-like Ability (arcane): At some class levels, a detective gains spell-like abilities usable 3/day if he has levels in an arcane spellcasting class. Caster level equals the detective's character levels + any arcane spellcasting levels the detective might have. The spells are Charisma-based. Level 1: Detect Poison Level 2: Detect Secret Doors Level 3: Detect Undead Level 5: Detect Magic Level 6: Discern Location Level 8: Detect Thoughts Level 10: Detect Scrying Spell-like Ability (divine): At some class levels, a detective gains spell-like abilities usable 3/day if he has levels in a divine spellcasting class. Caster level equals the detective's character levels + any divine spellcasting levels the detective might have. The spells are Charisma-based. Level 1: Detect Poison, Discern Lies Level 3: Detect Undead Level 5: Detect Magic Level 6: Discern Location Level 7: Detect Chaos, Detect Evil, Detect Good, Detect Law Level 9: Detect Snares and Pits, Detect Animals or Plants Psi-like Ability: At some class levels, a detective gains psi-like abilities usable 3/day. Manifester level equals the detective's class levels + any manifester levels the detective might have. The powers are Charisma-based. Level 4: Detect Teleportation Level 5: Detect Psionics Level 8: Detect Hostile Intent Level 10: Detect Remote Viewing
seventh_scroll 01-29-08, 03:59 PM	Hmm. I like the general idea, but it seems a little limited. Why the poor attack progression for a class whose main features seem to be using improvised weapons? Why not give it a spell list that has many detect spells, but is not limited to them? Is magical detection his only reliable method of uncovering clues? If it were up to me, I'd make this a skill based PrC with various extraordinary or supernatural talents that allow new uses of the skills, such as a Sense Motive check to uncover surface thoughts, or a Heal check in place of a failed Sense Motive to detect lies due to minor anatomical changes(blood pressure, light sweat, etc.). Magic may play a part in his amazing deductive skills, but sheer wit and self-training make up the majority.
M-bark 01-29-08, 04:35 PM	I gave the Detective the poor attack progression, because it doesn't strike me really as a martial type of class. I suppose a BAB progression as a Wizard is a bit too low, yes, because the only ones who have that are pretty much only pure casters, whilst lesser casters and more skill-focused classes have a BAB progression as Clerics, so I guess I'll change that. Do note though that they aren't really meant to use only improvised weapons. It's just that they are better at using those than other classes. ;) Your other suggestions are good ones, too. I think I'll still keep the Detect and Discern spells (perhaps turn them into a spell list instead of spell-like abilities), but add class features like "Psychology" or "Interrogation Expert" (as with your Sense Motive suggestion). I'll have to think more thoroughly about that before putting that up, though. EDIT: added the hand crossbow under Weapon Proficiencies, because I thought it somewhat fit. Perhaps that is because it really resembles a handgun?
M-bark 01-30-08, 02:58 AM	Added some extra class features.
M-bark 02-01-08, 11:02 AM	:bump:
DonThelonious 02-01-08, 11:28 AM	I like this class but it seems more like an NPC PrC than one meant for players. That is unless you play a lot of murder/mystery type adventures. Good job for a first class though. Given that the class has next to no advancement in combat I would suggest at least letting players advance their spell casting, or if they are more rogue type than perhaps sneak attack. Otherwise this seems to a purely NPC PrC. If that was the intent than WOW! I would hate to be a member of the party that gets one of these on it tail, you would never be able to shake him;).
M-bark 02-02-08, 04:10 AM	I have to say this class wasn't entirely meant as an NPC PrC (I must say in all honesty I have never heard of an NPC PrC), but it really would work out well. As you said, a party would never be able to shake him. ;) And yes, I do realize that the class, as it is, works best in a lot of murder/mystery type adventures. I suppose that advancing spellcasting/psionic ability as you advance through the class would make it a better PrC for a PC. I'll look over it again and see if I perhaps could add some features that would make it more attractive for play. Sneak attack doesn't really seem right for this PrC. Perhaps trap sense?
DonThelonious 02-02-08, 12:45 PM	Trap Sense definitely. Sherlock Holmes and Mr. Bond both knew when they were about to fall into a trap. I would also consider giving them Disable Device, so they can diffuse bombs so to speak. I have a small question though, why does the Detective get psi-like abilities when the class has no psionic requirement? I understand the reason flavor-wise, but overall they just seem a little bit random. I would either drop the psionics entirely or split the abilities out into separate progressions (IE: if the character used psionics to get into the class then he would get the psionics table, if he used arcane then the arcane table). These are just some thoughts.
M-bark 02-02-08, 06:45 PM	I suppose that's a good idea: give them the psionic abilities if they have manifester levels, arcane detect spells if they have arcane spellcasting levels and divine detect spells if they have divine spellcasting levels (because the spell-like abilities include detect/discern spells from both the wizard/sorcerer list as the cleric list). And if they have multiple of the aforementioned three kinds, they get multiple of those spell/psi-like abilities. At first I was just going to have them have Spell-like Abilities and have them treat the normally psionic detect powers as spells. I might turn back to that if things prove not to work so well with how I put it up now. Trap sense is definately going to go in there. Disable Device is also a good one.
DonThelonious 02-04-08, 08:40 AM	I think this class would make make an awesome combo with the bard. Nothing would get past you, and if there is information on something you can always get it. Class is shaping up nicely;)
M-bark 02-06-08, 04:58 AM	Well, for now, I think the PrC is fine enough. I guess it'll take some playtesting to see if some tiny ability may be added. Thanks for the comments anyways. :)
Danahan 02-27-08, 09:38 AM	I definitely want to use this for my upcoming gothic horror campaign, albeit some tweaking! I haven’t seen too many classes with this sort of flavor – very Lovecraftian. Keep up the great work!
M-bark 02-28-08, 02:22 PM	I definitely want to use this for my upcoming gothic horror campaign, albeit some tweaking! I haven’t seen too many classes with this sort of flavor – very Lovecraftian. Keep up the great work! Thanks a lot! :D I must say I haven't read any of Lovecraft's work, although I certainly intend to do so. I recently have come across some stuff in official DnD material that would fit this class very well, so I might someday post a revised version of this or a non-magical/psionic one.