Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shaya 03-17-07, 05:01 AM	From conversations with some other players I got the impression, that there are quite a few house rules out there regarding the use of prestige classes, trying to limit level-dips or the number of prestige classes you can take or to apply rules similar to base class multiclassing or... So... do YOU have houserules in regards to the prestige class system (rather than specific prestige classes)? And if so, why?
Qube 03-17-07, 07:40 AM	yes: you can't have more prestige classes then your character level :D
Krusk 03-17-07, 02:40 PM	you have to finish the prestige classes progression before taking a new one. can go to base classes as you want. - we were tired of one player not doing this while everyone else did. Group consensus really- All prestige classes have an entry requirement -usually nothing huge, and mostly something fun to do- If you intend to take a prestige class with an organization attached you have to say so before the first session or two. -to give the dm time to incorporate the organization.- all prestige classes are at dm approval, none are automatically allowed. Best bet is to ask at the start of a campaign. "I intend to play rogue a few levels, and then go into master thrower, cool?" -some prestige classes do not fit the flavor of the campaign-
Moccanime 03-18-07, 06:58 PM	I agree with Krusk. When you enter a PrC you have to stick with it until you have all levels in it. No dips in multiple PrC. I also add an extra entry requirement to most PrC, it being that the character has to train under someone who is all ready a member of the class.
RobbyPants 03-19-07, 12:12 PM	I've never personally had a problem with people dipping a level or so into a PrC. I can see why some find it annoying, but that's just me. Although ,it's not like it's ever come up in my games anyway... The closest thing to a house-rule that I use in my games is basically that I need to approve the PrC in question first. Before I started my current campaign, I took the time to type out a list of acceptable PrCs for the game ahead of time. I've had to revise the list since I've bought several new books, but the idea's there. The nice thing about having it on paper before the first player asks, is that it gives them a feeling of fairness. No one can question you taking sides if it is already spelled out before they ask! I've played with some people who will not allow you more than one PrC. Although this was largely due to him misunderstanding the rules (he thought it was explicitly stated in the DMG).
AllisterH 03-19-07, 12:31 PM	All full-casting PrC lose one level at first level of that PrC. You can't have more PrC than you have Base classes. Those two tend to keep the PrC relatively in check in our campaign
enygmatic_me 03-19-07, 12:32 PM	The easiest way to limit PrC's that I have found is to require teachers. This isn't perfect though as some PrC's just have the "feel" of natural progression. The best may be to just limit a player to only 2 PrC's total. Personally I see little reason to limit PrC acquisition. PrC's already have certain limiters in place, most notably entrance requirements. Taking multiple PrC's does not inherently make a one character better than others. Just different. Multiple PrC will often result in lower BAB, a more "even" save set up, feat selection that is ok though it lacks some synergy, and the like. If there is a problem allowing multiple PrC's it is that there are PrC's that have some really worthwhile low level abilities that have nothing at higher levels that really entices a player to stay with it. That is more a flaw of the game though, and not as much the player.
Shaya 03-19-07, 05:04 PM	Quite interesting how different this can be from group to group. Other than a planned restriction of 'pending approval', we have a general rule (well, actually more of a guideline) to not have more than two non-completed prestige classes. That's a guideline which just developed and wasn't planned, but we're quite ok with it (although we've had some exceptions in the past).
AllisterH 03-20-07, 09:12 AM	For our group, 85% of the prestige classes are tied either to an organization or to an individual. For both, it would be seen as a matter of disrespect for a pupil to simply take a few courses and then drop out since this has an effect on their OWN reputation as a teacher. Basically, their "style" is only good for a few months until you find something better. As well, many of the organizations and individuals are jealous of their skills and choose only people they think will make it in the long haul. Then there is 10% which are self-trained but are almost always divine (meaning, the archbishops and the deities themselves frown on people that switch PrC even in the same church since it shows a lack of faith/character).
RobbyPants 03-20-07, 09:48 AM	For our group, 85% of the prestige classes are tied either to an organization or to an individual. For both, it would be seen as a matter of disrespect for a pupil to simply take a few courses and then drop out since this has an effect on their OWN reputation as a teacher. Basically, their "style" is only good for a few months until you find something better. As well, many of the organizations and individuals are jealous of their skills and choose only people they think will make it in the long haul. Then there is 10% which are self-trained but are almost always divine (meaning, the archbishops and the deities themselves frown on people that switch PrC even in the same church since it shows a lack of faith/character). That's actually a really good point. Until I read that post, I was wondering why so many people had a problem with people dipping into several different PrCs. I've always figured if you're not going to restrict the number of base classes, then don't restrict the number of PrCs. The game mechanincs tend to sort this thing out, anyway. But this gives a good, solid RP reason for encouraging PCs to stick with a PrC. I like encouraging in-game behavior with in-game consequences. It helps with the suspension of disbelief. Nicely done! :D
enygmatic_me 03-20-07, 10:53 AM	For our group, 85% of the prestige classes are tied either to an organization or to an individual. For both, it would be seen as a matter of disrespect for a pupil to simply take a few courses and then drop out since this has an effect on their OWN reputation as a teacher. Basically, their "style" is only good for a few months until you find something better. As well, many of the organizations and individuals are jealous of their skills and choose only people they think will make it in the long haul. Then there is 10% which are self-trained but are almost always divine (meaning, the archbishops and the deities themselves frown on people that switch PrC even in the same church since it shows a lack of faith/character). I have only one problem with this set up. It doesn't take into account character that are going to advance more than one class simultaneously (ie: take a level of PrC A then a level of PrC B then a level of PrC A then a level of PrC B, etc...). It was not unheard of for a person to have more than one teacher at a time. It was also not unheard of for the master of a school to send their students to other masters for various reason. To bring the other schools secrets back to them and to fill in gaps in training that they may not be able to provide the student are just two examples. Not every master of a school was a self-absorbed task master that forced their students to shun the teachings of others.
AllisterH 03-20-07, 11:06 AM	I have only one problem with this set up. It doesn't take into account character that are going to advance more than one class simultaneously (ie: take a level of PrC A then a level of PrC B then a level of PrC A then a level of PrC B, etc...). It was not unheard of for a person to have more than one teacher at a time. It was also not unheard of for the master of a school to send their students to other masters for various reason. To bring the other schools secrets back to them and to fill in gaps in training that they may not be able to provide the student are just two examples. Not every master of a school was a self-absorbed task master that forced their students to shun the teachings of others. Sending pupil to another master of the same school (prestige same class). Yeah, I can see this. Sending pupil to another master of entirely different school? This was frowned upon unless the two schools were considered sister schools. I mean, its a classic of the movies where two rival martial art schools go at it. Not just for the Eastern martial arts but also for Western Europe during medieval & renaissance times. During the 3 musketeers era, France had lots of fencing schools (it was seen as well-breeding) but the elite schools did not allow people to casually swoop in, take a couple of lessons and then leave. What you have is a journeyman character who goes from school to organization to group picking up a skill here and there like it is nowadays. In our campaign, not only are the entrance requirements based on the pre-requisites but like medieval times when the way to get in was who you knew. In my eyes, a prestige class is viewed as a person learning multiple things from different masters in the same school. To have a student learning say, from the Order of the Bow Initiates and at the same time "Order of the Initiate Bows" would require both schools to have been sister schools. Remember, this is supposed to be "prestigous" and not just "ordinary" like your base classes.
enygmatic_me 03-20-07, 11:18 AM	Sending pupil to another master of the same school (prestige same class). Yeah, I can see this. Sending pupil to another master of entirely different school? This was frowned upon unless the two schools were considered sister schools. I mean, its a classic of the movies where two rival martial art schools go at it. Not just for the Eastern martial arts but also for Western Europe during medieval & renaissance times. During the 3 musketeers era, France had lots of fencing schools (it was seen as well-breeding) but the elite schools did not allow people to casually swoop in, take a couple of lessons and then leave. What you have is a journeyman character who goes from school to organization to group picking up a skill here and there like it is nowadays. In our campaign, not only are the entrance requirements based on the pre-requisites but like medieval times when the way to get in was who you knew. In my eyes, a prestige class is viewed as a person learning multiple things from different masters in the same school. To have a student learning say, from the Order of the Bow Initiates and at the same time "Order of the Initiate Bows" would require both schools to have been sister schools. Remember, this is supposed to be "prestigous" and not just "ordinary" like your base classes. Yes, but under this theory the majority of students would also have to come from well to do families (high ranking merchantry, nobles, royals, etc...). Peasantry was almost never allowed into "elite" schools as it was a matter of pride and prestige. During the period of time you are talking about who your student was would be as important (if not more so) as their accomplishments.