anyone have any suggestions for a prc [Archive] - Wizards Community

anyone have any suggestions for a prc [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Daemonix_darkwizard
02-13-08, 10:59 AM i have a lich with the following Wizard 10 Cleric 10 and Fighter 4 are there any good prestige classes i can use to make him better?
LSMFT
02-13-08, 12:04 PM You are a wizard 10 and a cleric 10? Why did you not combine those with a theurge-style PrC to increase your casting in both classes? Mystic Theirge or True Necromancer. At your ECL, maybe some of both?
Daemonix_darkwizard
02-13-08, 01:21 PM i never thought of that because my dm is kind of picky when it comes to stuff like that
LSMFT
02-13-08, 01:45 PM If he is picky about that, we need to know what sorts of things you are going to be able to get.

You still qualify to enter those sorts of PrCs now, and as long as you want to increase your casting, that is what I would probably do.
StevenO
02-13-08, 02:13 PM Mystic Theurge and Eldritch Knight from the DM would be a very good start. Without considering the Lich part the best this character could have looked at 20th level is +14 BAB and saves of 12-5-13. Going Ftr1/Clr4/Wiz3/MT6/EK6 by level 20 give you the same +14 BAB, saves of 15-6-15 and perhaps more importantly casting as a cleric10/wizard14 vs the clr8/wiz8 before; four more levels of MT at epic gets you the same number of class levels but your casting much more powerful spells and have better saves to boot. The only minor drawback to this build is the reduction in turning power which could have been adressed by taking True Necromancer instead.
Cartigan
02-13-08, 03:39 PM 3 or 4 levels of Abjurant Champion would be better than Eldritch Knight.
StevenO
02-13-08, 06:52 PM Here is another 20 level build that gets you +14 BAB and 10th level casting as both cleric and Wizard:

Cleric8/Wiz1/Abjurant Champion5/True Necromancer6:
+14 BAB, 11th level wizard casting, 12th level cleric casting, 14th+ level turning, saves 12-5-17.
Note this assumes you need the martial weapon feat somehow (domain, race, or feat most likely). AbC is Complete Mage and True Necromancer is Libris Mortis.

Depending on what you want there are lot of different ways to build an evil character. As a PC I'd never try building something like the post #5 build as your fighting and/or casting ability falls way too far behind the curve. I would maybe try the build here as you can start and stay cleric for a while to build your power before taking a level to get your arcane skills in order before advancing as an Abjurant Champion; after a couple levels of AbC (to get the Command Undead Spell you need) you could move into True Necromancer which can get you base cleric casting level to 11th level after TN 4 so you can become a Lich.

Note that a 20th Level Lich is an ECL 24 PC.
Cartigan
02-13-08, 09:07 PM There is no point taking Abjurant Champion's 5th level unless your class is built for what the class is designed for - melee classes dipping into arcane casting. Martial Arcanist isn't going to help a pure caster at all. You would be better served taking another class.
StevenO
02-14-08, 12:07 AM There IS a very good reason to take AbC5 and one useful reason. The very good reason is because you can now use Swift Abjuration on 3rd level spells; note the ability says you Quicken a spell up to 1/2 your class level (ROUNDED UP). That is effectively a "free" extra buff/debuff of a higher level and a quickened Dispel Magic shouldn't be ignored even if it usually isn't that helpful. The useful reason in because it adds another +1 AC from your Abjurant Armor ability thus increasing your AC another point or two. I agree that Martial Arcanist wouldn't help this build much (it still takes your arcane caster level from 12 up to 14 in the 20 level build) but these two abilities and the +1 BAB make it worth it.

Normally I would STRONGLY recommend against using a "build" that has classes stopping at 5th level. Some classes get special features that may make it good but only warrior classes get a BAB increase that level and no one gets any save increases that level making it the ultimate "dead" level. On the other hand level 6 is always a good level because everyone gets +1 BAB and all saves.
Cartigan
02-14-08, 12:16 AM Well, you're right, I glazed over that.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Daemonix_darkwizard 02-13-08, 10:59 AM	i have a lich with the following Wizard 10 Cleric 10 and Fighter 4 are there any good prestige classes i can use to make him better?
LSMFT 02-13-08, 12:04 PM	You are a wizard 10 and a cleric 10? Why did you not combine those with a theurge-style PrC to increase your casting in both classes? Mystic Theirge or True Necromancer. At your ECL, maybe some of both?
Daemonix_darkwizard 02-13-08, 01:21 PM	i never thought of that because my dm is kind of picky when it comes to stuff like that
LSMFT 02-13-08, 01:45 PM	If he is picky about that, we need to know what sorts of things you are going to be able to get. You still qualify to enter those sorts of PrCs now, and as long as you want to increase your casting, that is what I would probably do.
StevenO 02-13-08, 02:13 PM	Mystic Theurge and Eldritch Knight from the DM would be a very good start. Without considering the Lich part the best this character could have looked at 20th level is +14 BAB and saves of 12-5-13. Going Ftr1/Clr4/Wiz3/MT6/EK6 by level 20 give you the same +14 BAB, saves of 15-6-15 and perhaps more importantly casting as a cleric10/wizard14 vs the clr8/wiz8 before; four more levels of MT at epic gets you the same number of class levels but your casting much more powerful spells and have better saves to boot. The only minor drawback to this build is the reduction in turning power which could have been adressed by taking True Necromancer instead.
Cartigan 02-13-08, 03:39 PM	3 or 4 levels of Abjurant Champion would be better than Eldritch Knight.
StevenO 02-13-08, 06:52 PM	Here is another 20 level build that gets you +14 BAB and 10th level casting as both cleric and Wizard: Cleric8/Wiz1/Abjurant Champion5/True Necromancer6: +14 BAB, 11th level wizard casting, 12th level cleric casting, 14th+ level turning, saves 12-5-17. Note this assumes you need the martial weapon feat somehow (domain, race, or feat most likely). AbC is Complete Mage and True Necromancer is Libris Mortis. Depending on what you want there are lot of different ways to build an evil character. As a PC I'd never try building something like the post #5 build as your fighting and/or casting ability falls way too far behind the curve. I would maybe try the build here as you can start and stay cleric for a while to build your power before taking a level to get your arcane skills in order before advancing as an Abjurant Champion; after a couple levels of AbC (to get the Command Undead Spell you need) you could move into True Necromancer which can get you base cleric casting level to 11th level after TN 4 so you can become a Lich. Note that a 20th Level Lich is an ECL 24 PC.
Cartigan 02-13-08, 09:07 PM	There is no point taking Abjurant Champion's 5th level unless your class is built for what the class is designed for - melee classes dipping into arcane casting. Martial Arcanist isn't going to help a pure caster at all. You would be better served taking another class.
StevenO 02-14-08, 12:07 AM	There IS a very good reason to take AbC5 and one useful reason. The very good reason is because you can now use Swift Abjuration on 3rd level spells; note the ability says you Quicken a spell up to 1/2 your class level (ROUNDED UP). That is effectively a "free" extra buff/debuff of a higher level and a quickened Dispel Magic shouldn't be ignored even if it usually isn't that helpful. The useful reason in because it adds another +1 AC from your Abjurant Armor ability thus increasing your AC another point or two. I agree that Martial Arcanist wouldn't help this build much (it still takes your arcane caster level from 12 up to 14 in the 20 level build) but these two abilities and the +1 BAB make it worth it. Normally I would STRONGLY recommend against using a "build" that has classes stopping at 5th level. Some classes get special features that may make it good but only warrior classes get a BAB increase that level and no one gets any save increases that level making it the ultimate "dead" level. On the other hand level 6 is always a good level because everyone gets +1 BAB and all saves.
Cartigan 02-14-08, 12:16 AM	Well, you're right, I glazed over that.