Anyone play test a wild mage [Archive] - Wizards Community

Anyone play test a wild mage [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Candin
04-18-07, 10:10 PM I'm drafting a sorcerer build and since sorcerer levels exist almost exclusively to increase your spellcaster level, I'm thinking it's in my best interest to prc as soon as I can.

Wild Mages look interesting. Do they actually play well in practice, or are they too random to be effective? I'm concerned, obviously, about the wild magic ability.

Or is there perhaps a prc one of you would suggest?

I'm not building a utility sorcerer, I'm focusing primarily on damage output.
Jaxgaret
04-18-07, 10:24 PM Wild Mages can be combined with the Practiced Spellcaster feat.

Here's how PS + Wild Magic works: Wild magic applies a (1d6-3) CL modifier to any spell you cast. If that (1d6-3) roll is less than zero, then PS works its mojo, and the CL isn't reduced.

So effectively, PS + Wild Magic = +1 CL, on average. Of course, Wild Magic by itself is a +.5 CL, on average. But the feat may be worth it to avoid the negative CL mod.

Alternatively, you could also take another spellcasting PrC with 9/10 or 4/5 spellcasting progression, for a total of (1d6-4) CL every time you cast. The PS still prevents your spells' CL from ever being reduced, but you can only benefit by +1 or +2, bringing your average benefit from Wild Magic back down to +.5 CL.

But the PrC should theroetically give you something useful in return for the loss of a spellcasting level.
StevenO
04-18-07, 11:09 PM Almost every full casting PrC you get into easily as a sorcerer is worth taking.

As noted Practiced Spellcaster works wonderfully well with Wild Magic to ensure you never feel the sting of a reduced caster level. Not that I recommend giving up the higher level spells you'd lose you could even take two levels in a non-casting class and still maintain a CL = HD or up to +3 higher. I don't know where Jaxgaret got his numbers but a Ftr2/wiz5/WM4 with practiced spellcaster would have CL=11-14; you start with a base of 9 and then either Practiced Spellcaster (up to +4) or Wild Magic (1d6-3) first and you did get to know how the d6 turns before deciding so the worst cast is 9-2(WM)+4=11 and the best is 9+2(PS maxing out to HD)+3(WM)=14.
Jaxgaret
04-19-07, 12:33 AM Yes, I did make one small mathematical error. You can take two levels in a non-spellcasting class, as StevenO suggested, and never suffer from a CL lower than your HD. I simply forgot that (1d6-3) is never lower than -2; I was thinking it could be as low as -3.

However, if you did create such a character, the total boost from Wild Magic could never go higher than +1. This is due to the fact that the Wild Magic CL modifier of (1d6-3) is applied all at once, not in two discrete amounts like StevenO is suggesting. So PS can either be applied before the (1d6-3) modification, or after. Not in the middle.

Feel free to search the boards for more explanations of how this works. I'm pretty sure that I am in the right here.
Dead_Weasel
04-19-07, 03:00 AM AZNsupermarket's full caster progression PrC list (http://boards1.wizards.com/archive/index.php/t-772393.html).
StevenO
04-19-07, 02:18 PM Sorry Jaxgaret but you are only partly correct. You are correct that the Wild Magic's (1d6-3) is applied at once and that can leave you with a +3 on a good roll. The key in this case is that you apply the Wild Magic CL adjustment AFTER applying Practice Spellcaster to bring your CL up to your HD (which doesn't matter if you don't have non-casting levels); if your Wild Magic modifier is going to be low you'd apply Wild Magic first and then Practiced Spellcaster. You are definitely correct that the (1d6-3) from Wild Magic can not be split up and neutralize in part by practiced spellcaster as some would like; that rule violation would seem to yield a net +1d6 CL all the time which is not the case.
Jaxgaret
04-19-07, 03:14 PM Sorry Jaxgaret but you are only partly correct. You are correct that the Wild Magic's (1d6-3) is applied at once and that can leave you with a +3 on a good roll. The key in this case is that you apply the Wild Magic CL adjustment AFTER applying Practice Spellcaster to bring your CL up to your HD (which doesn't matter if you don't have non-casting levels); if your Wild Magic modifier is going to be low you'd apply Wild Magic first and then Practiced Spellcaster. You are definitely correct that the (1d6-3) from Wild Magic can not be split up and neutralize in part by practiced spellcaster as some would like; that rule violation would seem to yield a net +1d6 CL all the time which is not the case.

Hmm. It appears that you are correct. I think that my mathematical error threw off my entire thinking on the subject, for some reason.

Thanks StevenO :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Candin 04-18-07, 10:10 PM	I'm drafting a sorcerer build and since sorcerer levels exist almost exclusively to increase your spellcaster level, I'm thinking it's in my best interest to prc as soon as I can. Wild Mages look interesting. Do they actually play well in practice, or are they too random to be effective? I'm concerned, obviously, about the wild magic ability. Or is there perhaps a prc one of you would suggest? I'm not building a utility sorcerer, I'm focusing primarily on damage output.
Jaxgaret 04-18-07, 10:24 PM	Wild Mages can be combined with the Practiced Spellcaster feat. Here's how PS + Wild Magic works: Wild magic applies a (1d6-3) CL modifier to any spell you cast. If that (1d6-3) roll is less than zero, then PS works its mojo, and the CL isn't reduced. So effectively, PS + Wild Magic = +1 CL, on average. Of course, Wild Magic by itself is a +.5 CL, on average. But the feat may be worth it to avoid the negative CL mod. Alternatively, you could also take another spellcasting PrC with 9/10 or 4/5 spellcasting progression, for a total of (1d6-4) CL every time you cast. The PS still prevents your spells' CL from ever being reduced, but you can only benefit by +1 or +2, bringing your average benefit from Wild Magic back down to +.5 CL. But the PrC should theroetically give you something useful in return for the loss of a spellcasting level.
StevenO 04-18-07, 11:09 PM	Almost every full casting PrC you get into easily as a sorcerer is worth taking. As noted Practiced Spellcaster works wonderfully well with Wild Magic to ensure you never feel the sting of a reduced caster level. Not that I recommend giving up the higher level spells you'd lose you could even take two levels in a non-casting class and still maintain a CL = HD or up to +3 higher. I don't know where Jaxgaret got his numbers but a Ftr2/wiz5/WM4 with practiced spellcaster would have CL=11-14; you start with a base of 9 and then either Practiced Spellcaster (up to +4) or Wild Magic (1d6-3) first and you did get to know how the d6 turns before deciding so the worst cast is 9-2(WM)+4=11 and the best is 9+2(PS maxing out to HD)+3(WM)=14.
Jaxgaret 04-19-07, 12:33 AM	Yes, I did make one small mathematical error. You can take two levels in a non-spellcasting class, as StevenO suggested, and never suffer from a CL lower than your HD. I simply forgot that (1d6-3) is never lower than -2; I was thinking it could be as low as -3. However, if you did create such a character, the total boost from Wild Magic could never go higher than +1. This is due to the fact that the Wild Magic CL modifier of (1d6-3) is applied all at once, not in two discrete amounts like StevenO is suggesting. So PS can either be applied before the (1d6-3) modification, or after. Not in the middle. Feel free to search the boards for more explanations of how this works. I'm pretty sure that I am in the right here.
Dead_Weasel 04-19-07, 03:00 AM	AZNsupermarket's full caster progression PrC list (http://boards1.wizards.com/archive/index.php/t-772393.html).
StevenO 04-19-07, 02:18 PM	Sorry Jaxgaret but you are only partly correct. You are correct that the Wild Magic's (1d6-3) is applied at once and that can leave you with a +3 on a good roll. The key in this case is that you apply the Wild Magic CL adjustment AFTER applying Practice Spellcaster to bring your CL up to your HD (which doesn't matter if you don't have non-casting levels); if your Wild Magic modifier is going to be low you'd apply Wild Magic first and then Practiced Spellcaster. You are definitely correct that the (1d6-3) from Wild Magic can not be split up and neutralize in part by practiced spellcaster as some would like; that rule violation would seem to yield a net +1d6 CL all the time which is not the case.
Jaxgaret 04-19-07, 03:14 PM	Sorry Jaxgaret but you are only partly correct. You are correct that the Wild Magic's (1d6-3) is applied at once and that can leave you with a +3 on a good roll. The key in this case is that you apply the Wild Magic CL adjustment AFTER applying Practice Spellcaster to bring your CL up to your HD (which doesn't matter if you don't have non-casting levels); if your Wild Magic modifier is going to be low you'd apply Wild Magic first and then Practiced Spellcaster. You are definitely correct that the (1d6-3) from Wild Magic can not be split up and neutralize in part by practiced spellcaster as some would like; that rule violation would seem to yield a net +1d6 CL all the time which is not the case. Hmm. It appears that you are correct. I think that my mathematical error threw off my entire thinking on the subject, for some reason. Thanks StevenO :)