Anything other than Mystic Theurge and Arcane Hierophant? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Anything other than Mystic Theurge and Arcane Hierophant? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Serin_Ghar
03-17-08, 06:51 PM I was wondering if there are any other divine caster/arcane caster PrCs out there besides the Mystic Theurge and the Arcane Hierophant? I just couldn't find any in the books I have, but I can't believe that these would be the only two.

Can anyone help me out?
AtsuiShoto
03-17-08, 07:21 PM Fochlucan Lyrist from Complete Adventurer is one. It is, however, not available until 11th level, due to needing 13 ranks in Perform(String Instruments). Even then, its other requirements lean it strongly toward rogue levels, bard levels, and at least 1 druid level that have to be fit into those 10 levels before you take the prestige class. It's brutal.
Wih
03-17-08, 07:29 PM If you play with Dragon Magazine (311), there's the Green Whisperer. There's also the True Necromancer from Libris Mortis. The Yathrinshee from PGF is also a dual-caster, but it's a Vile PrC.
Baninor
03-17-08, 07:38 PM bit of a tangent but if we take it broader to dual caster PrCs
Theres:
Eldritch Thuerge (Warlock + Arcane)
Eldritch Disciple (Warlock + Divine)
Ultimate Magus (Arcane + Arcane)
Wih
03-18-08, 12:43 AM In addition to the above post

Cerebrmancer (Psi+Arcane)
Psychic Theurge (Psi+Divine)
Neraagile
03-18-08, 01:22 AM Don't forget
Soulcaster (Meldshaper + Arcane)
Sapphire Heirach (Meldshaper + Divine)
Tordak
03-18-08, 10:37 AM True Necromancer (Divine/Arcane), from Libris Mortis. It's actually quite strong, much stronger than the Mystic Theurge. As long as you don't mind the necrophilia...
ninja_donut
03-18-08, 12:48 PM the geomancer from complete divine(pg41) its made more more for druid/wizard.
Lotus Crane
03-18-08, 03:53 PM the geomancer from complete divine(pg41) its made more more for druid/wizard.
Doesn't actually advance both spellcasting progressions, though.
betrayor
03-19-08, 06:17 AM If we are includung classes that don't advance both spellcasting progressions then you should take a look of the dweomerkeeper from complete divine from C.Div.
JaronK
03-19-08, 07:01 PM True Necromancer (Divine/Arcane), from Libris Mortis. It's actually quite strong, much stronger than the Mystic Theurge. As long as you don't mind the necrophilia...

Erm, it's really not. You lose a bunch more caster levels, and gain very few class abilities that wouldn't be done just as easily with spells (which you have fewer of, due to lost caster levels.

It's a trap.

JaronK
Tordak
03-20-08, 04:36 PM Erm, it's really not. You lose a bunch more caster levels, and gain very few class abilities that wouldn't be done just as easily with spells (which you have fewer of, due to lost caster levels.

It's a trap.

JaronK

I might be wrong (I don't have my books right now), but if you follow the minimum requirement to become a True Necromancer you'll end up a 17th level caster in both divine and arcane. This is the only class/PrC that allows such a high level of dual casting within 20 levels. As a contrast Mystic Theurge would at best be 15th level in each, or 17 in one and 13 in the other, unless he take another PrC that increases both spell casting class again. I guess you could go dual casting divine/arcane with a different PrC and finish with the mystic theurge, but you gonna have a hard time with the requirement another way around.

The true necromancer class abilities aren't that bad, and with a few feat from libris mortis and possibly heroes of horror they can get very strong.
Lotus Crane
03-20-08, 05:30 PM True Necromancer doesn't advance both spellcasting progressions at every level; at 1st and 6th it only advances arcane, at 2nd and 7th it only advances divine. You will end at 15th caster level in both progressions; unlike with a MT, 17/13 isn't even an option.
teshen
03-20-08, 07:34 PM I might be wrong (I don't have my books right now), but if you follow the minimum requirement to become a True Necromancer you'll end up a 17th level caster in both divine and arcane. This is the only class/PrC that allows such a high level of dual casting within 20 levels. As a contrast Mystic Theurge would at best be 15th level in each, or 17 in one and 13 in the other, unless he take another PrC that increases both spell casting class again. I guess you could go dual casting divine/arcane with a different PrC and finish with the mystic theurge, but you gonna have a hard time with the requirement another way around. . .Depends on the entry.

Wizard 5/Mindbender 1/Ur Priest 2/Mystic theurge 8 gets Arcane CL 14/7th level spells and Divine CL 15/9th level spells... and that's at level 16. But that demonstrates more the problem with Ur Priest rather than dual casting prcs.

And he might just qualify for true necromancer now that I think about it... would that make the Ur priest Epic?... :smirk:
Serin_Ghar
03-20-08, 08:00 PM I hadn't realized there were so many classes. Thank you for listing all of these so far.
JaronK
03-21-08, 02:50 AM I might be wrong (I don't have my books right now), but if you follow the minimum requirement to become a True Necromancer you'll end up a 17th level caster in both divine and arcane. This is the only class/PrC that allows such a high level of dual casting within 20 levels. As a contrast Mystic Theurge would at best be 15th level in each, or 17 in one and 13 in the other, unless he take another PrC that increases both spell casting class again. I guess you could go dual casting divine/arcane with a different PrC and finish with the mystic theurge, but you gonna have a hard time with the requirement another way around.

The true necromancer class abilities aren't that bad, and with a few feat from libris mortis and possibly heroes of horror they can get very strong.

The thing is, TN forces you to lose caster levels, which you can avoid a bit more with MT. For example, Wizard 10/Ur Priest 2/MT 8, or Wizard 3/Druid 3/MT 4/Arcane Heirophant 10. Similar tricks work with Sublime Chords and other fast progression classes.

So yes, Mystic Theurges can give better casting than True Necromancers.

JaronK
Howland Reed
03-24-08, 11:46 PM Quote:
Originally Posted by ninja_donut
the geomancer from complete divine(pg41) its made more more for druid/wizard.

Doesn't actually advance both spellcasting progressions, though.

Ah, but it should. Might be worth playing. :)
Tordak
03-25-08, 04:37 AM The thing is, TN forces you to lose caster levels, which you can avoid a bit more with MT. For example, Wizard 10/Ur Priest 2/MT 8, or Wizard 3/Druid 3/MT 4/Arcane Heirophant 10. Similar tricks work with Sublime Chords and other fast progression classes.

So yes, Mystic Theurges can give better casting than True Necromancers.

JaronK

Well you're right, I was wrong about the TN.:o

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Serin_Ghar 03-17-08, 06:51 PM	I was wondering if there are any other divine caster/arcane caster PrCs out there besides the Mystic Theurge and the Arcane Hierophant? I just couldn't find any in the books I have, but I can't believe that these would be the only two. Can anyone help me out?
AtsuiShoto 03-17-08, 07:21 PM	Fochlucan Lyrist from Complete Adventurer is one. It is, however, not available until 11th level, due to needing 13 ranks in Perform(String Instruments). Even then, its other requirements lean it strongly toward rogue levels, bard levels, and at least 1 druid level that have to be fit into those 10 levels before you take the prestige class. It's brutal.
Wih 03-17-08, 07:29 PM	If you play with Dragon Magazine (311), there's the Green Whisperer. There's also the True Necromancer from Libris Mortis. The Yathrinshee from PGF is also a dual-caster, but it's a Vile PrC.
Baninor 03-17-08, 07:38 PM	bit of a tangent but if we take it broader to dual caster PrCs Theres: Eldritch Thuerge (Warlock + Arcane) Eldritch Disciple (Warlock + Divine) Ultimate Magus (Arcane + Arcane)
Wih 03-18-08, 12:43 AM	In addition to the above post Cerebrmancer (Psi+Arcane) Psychic Theurge (Psi+Divine)
Neraagile 03-18-08, 01:22 AM	Don't forget Soulcaster (Meldshaper + Arcane) Sapphire Heirach (Meldshaper + Divine)
Tordak 03-18-08, 10:37 AM	True Necromancer (Divine/Arcane), from Libris Mortis. It's actually quite strong, much stronger than the Mystic Theurge. As long as you don't mind the necrophilia...
ninja_donut 03-18-08, 12:48 PM	the geomancer from complete divine(pg41) its made more more for druid/wizard.
Lotus Crane 03-18-08, 03:53 PM	the geomancer from complete divine(pg41) its made more more for druid/wizard. Doesn't actually advance both spellcasting progressions, though.
betrayor 03-19-08, 06:17 AM	If we are includung classes that don't advance both spellcasting progressions then you should take a look of the dweomerkeeper from complete divine from C.Div.
JaronK 03-19-08, 07:01 PM	True Necromancer (Divine/Arcane), from Libris Mortis. It's actually quite strong, much stronger than the Mystic Theurge. As long as you don't mind the necrophilia... Erm, it's really not. You lose a bunch more caster levels, and gain very few class abilities that wouldn't be done just as easily with spells (which you have fewer of, due to lost caster levels. It's a trap. JaronK
Tordak 03-20-08, 04:36 PM	Erm, it's really not. You lose a bunch more caster levels, and gain very few class abilities that wouldn't be done just as easily with spells (which you have fewer of, due to lost caster levels. It's a trap. JaronK I might be wrong (I don't have my books right now), but if you follow the minimum requirement to become a True Necromancer you'll end up a 17th level caster in both divine and arcane. This is the only class/PrC that allows such a high level of dual casting within 20 levels. As a contrast Mystic Theurge would at best be 15th level in each, or 17 in one and 13 in the other, unless he take another PrC that increases both spell casting class again. I guess you could go dual casting divine/arcane with a different PrC and finish with the mystic theurge, but you gonna have a hard time with the requirement another way around. The true necromancer class abilities aren't that bad, and with a few feat from libris mortis and possibly heroes of horror they can get very strong.
Lotus Crane 03-20-08, 05:30 PM	True Necromancer doesn't advance both spellcasting progressions at every level; at 1st and 6th it only advances arcane, at 2nd and 7th it only advances divine. You will end at 15th caster level in both progressions; unlike with a MT, 17/13 isn't even an option.
teshen 03-20-08, 07:34 PM	I might be wrong (I don't have my books right now), but if you follow the minimum requirement to become a True Necromancer you'll end up a 17th level caster in both divine and arcane. This is the only class/PrC that allows such a high level of dual casting within 20 levels. As a contrast Mystic Theurge would at best be 15th level in each, or 17 in one and 13 in the other, unless he take another PrC that increases both spell casting class again. I guess you could go dual casting divine/arcane with a different PrC and finish with the mystic theurge, but you gonna have a hard time with the requirement another way around. . .Depends on the entry. Wizard 5/Mindbender 1/Ur Priest 2/Mystic theurge 8 gets Arcane CL 14/7th level spells and Divine CL 15/9th level spells... and that's at level 16. But that demonstrates more the problem with Ur Priest rather than dual casting prcs. And he might just qualify for true necromancer now that I think about it... would that make the Ur priest Epic?... :smirk:
Serin_Ghar 03-20-08, 08:00 PM	I hadn't realized there were so many classes. Thank you for listing all of these so far.
JaronK 03-21-08, 02:50 AM	I might be wrong (I don't have my books right now), but if you follow the minimum requirement to become a True Necromancer you'll end up a 17th level caster in both divine and arcane. This is the only class/PrC that allows such a high level of dual casting within 20 levels. As a contrast Mystic Theurge would at best be 15th level in each, or 17 in one and 13 in the other, unless he take another PrC that increases both spell casting class again. I guess you could go dual casting divine/arcane with a different PrC and finish with the mystic theurge, but you gonna have a hard time with the requirement another way around. The true necromancer class abilities aren't that bad, and with a few feat from libris mortis and possibly heroes of horror they can get very strong. The thing is, TN forces you to lose caster levels, which you can avoid a bit more with MT. For example, Wizard 10/Ur Priest 2/MT 8, or Wizard 3/Druid 3/MT 4/Arcane Heirophant 10. Similar tricks work with Sublime Chords and other fast progression classes. So yes, Mystic Theurges can give better casting than True Necromancers. JaronK
Howland Reed 03-24-08, 11:46 PM	Quote: Originally Posted by ninja_donut the geomancer from complete divine(pg41) its made more more for druid/wizard. Doesn't actually advance both spellcasting progressions, though. Ah, but it should. Might be worth playing. :)
Tordak 03-25-08, 04:37 AM	The thing is, TN forces you to lose caster levels, which you can avoid a bit more with MT. For example, Wizard 10/Ur Priest 2/MT 8, or Wizard 3/Druid 3/MT 4/Arcane Heirophant 10. Similar tricks work with Sublime Chords and other fast progression classes. So yes, Mystic Theurges can give better casting than True Necromancers. JaronK Well you're right, I was wrong about the TN.:o