Apostle of Peace with magic items? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Apostle of Peace with magic items? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
feistykobold
03-26-08, 01:12 PM Someone in my group wants to try to play an apostle of peace, but the rules in book of exalted deeds are kinda contradictory. In the prerequisites it says you need VoP but later on in the class features under weapon and armor profs it says that, although they cant use armor and weapons, apostles of peace can use magic items that protect them, such as a ring of protection or bracers of armor. Doesnt this contradict the VoP?
Sinfire Titan
03-26-08, 05:47 PM It does. And it is a huge can of worms too. RAW, they can use any magic item that doesn't harm another person, but helps them, provided it isn't Armor or Weaponry. This overrides the VoP feats. I wouldn't allow an Apostle of Peace. The Vow of Nonviolence and Vow of Peace feats are way too powerful.
DeathlessJuan
03-27-08, 07:56 PM Actually, Vow of Poverty prevents a character from owning any magical item or item of great value. I don't believe your friend letting you borrow a ring of protection (especially if you are 'allowing' him to take your share of the spoils) would mess with the feat at all. 'Group Loot' is different than personal loot.

I could be wrong. I am away from my books at the moment but I can check when I get back
Sinfire Titan
03-28-08, 10:14 AM Actually, Vow of Poverty prevents a character from owning any magical item or item of great value. I don't believe your friend letting you borrow a ring of protection (especially if you are 'allowing' him to take your share of the spoils) would mess with the feat at all. 'Group Loot' is different than personal loot.

I could be wrong. I am away from my books at the moment but I can check when I get back

VoP also prevents them from borrowing or using any item worth more than a certain price. Apostle bypasses this by RAW.
DeathlessJuan
03-28-08, 11:29 AM VoP also prevents them from borrowing or using any item worth more than a certain price.

Can you point out the page in BoED that states this? I was unable to find it. (I am not too familiar with where all the information is stored in that book.)
Zillah
03-28-08, 12:42 PM I wouldn't allow an Apostle of Peace. The Vow of Nonviolence and Vow of Peace feats are way too powerful.

r u serious?
feistykobold
03-28-08, 01:20 PM At the very top of Page 52 in BoED it has class features of the Apostle. second paragraph under weapon and armor proficiency says the stuff about magic items.

if this is so it seems that you would just get the benefits of VoP without having to follow the restrictions for magic items. you could theoretically hoard all your gold and buy just protective magic items and not donate any to the poor, which seems kinda against the whole VoP idea.

And yeah it does seem like a really powerful class, considering you can still do subdual damage to anyone and do normal to undead with a massive amount of cool bonuses from the feats.
DeathlessJuan
03-28-08, 01:57 PM I am so using Apostle of Peace. Its one of those few prestiges that give full casting progression in 10 levels.

If you combine Incarnate (Magic of the Incarnum) with Apostle of Peace and then take one of the Incarnum Prestiges that boost shaping and divine magic, you will own all.
dman11235
03-28-08, 02:34 PM True it is very powerful, but the power does come at a price. I wouldn't allow it in normal campaigns because of the restrictions it places on the party. I would allow it for specific campaigns, much like a lot of the BoED.
Sinfire Titan
03-28-08, 09:45 PM Can you point out the page in BoED that states this? I was unable to find it. (I am not too familiar with where all the information is stored in that book.)

Page 48. It says you may not "Borrow" a magic item, but they can be used on you, provided you are not the one using them.

r u serious?

Yes, actually. +4 to the save DCs of virtually every spell you cast, +6 to AC, a huge AoE Calm Emotions effect that they have to save against every time they enter the radius, the immunity to manufactured weapons that are unenhanced (note that most of the NPCs and radom encounters in the MM/Splatbooks only have one primary enchanted weapon, so it is easy to get rid of that weapon), and a bonus to Diplomacy checks, at the cost of two feats, one of those two feats can be easily attained via a bonus feat that grants access to an overpowered PrC that almost makes the Ur-Priest look weak

Couple this with the fact that you are forcing everyone in your party into pacifism without needing their consent, and the impact that will have on party coherence. This feat is unbalanced, poorly thought out, and shouldn't be allowed in campaigns unless everyone agrees to the restrictions (which many may not).

I am so using Apostle of Peace. Its one of those few prestiges that give full casting progression in 10 levels.

If you combine Incarnate (Magic of the Incarnum) with Apostle of Peace and then take one of the Incarnum Prestiges that boost shaping and divine magic, you will own all.

Can't be done with Incarnate. Sapphire Hierarch requires any Lawful, and the only Lawful Incarnates are LN, so they aren't Exalted. It works with Totemist, but then someone will hit you with the folding chair.
Zillah
03-29-08, 01:54 AM i had an apostle of peace in one of the campaigns I was in. his subdual damage was pretty freakin insane. he could one shot anything. and yes i know the party was sitting there being all calm all the time. but if you read carefully, if you are attacked first while in the aura, you are allowed to attack back(the other PCs that are in the aura)
I want to build one i think
DeathlessJuan
03-29-08, 04:58 PM Can't be done with Incarnate. Sapphire Hierarch requires any Lawful, and the only Lawful Incarnates are LN, so they aren't Exalted. It works with Totemist, but then someone will hit you with the folding chair.

Ah, well, soulborn then. You can be exalted at the same time. Not as good as incarnate but still owns
Sinfire Titan
03-29-08, 05:17 PM Ah, well, soulborn then. You can be exalted at the same time. Not as good as incarnate but still owns

No no no! Never use the Soulborn! (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=15324760#post15324760) Especially for a build like that (you would lose levels of spellscasting to do something the Totemist does better).
feistykobold
03-30-08, 07:17 PM Couple this with the fact that you are forcing everyone in your party into pacifism without needing their consent, and the impact that will have on party coherence.

It only says that they are not allowed to kill helpless enemies. So if the enemy is fighting back and they werent wrongfuly provoked then theyre fair game for companions.
Sinfire Titan
03-31-08, 04:50 AM It only says that they are not allowed to kill helpless enemies. So if the enemy is fighting back and they werent wrongfuly provoked then theyre fair game for companions.

I know, but some DMs enforce the Vows a lot harder than needed. This is a common one to enforce that way.
DeathlessJuan
03-31-08, 03:30 PM No no no! Never use the Soulborn! (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=15324760#post15324760) Especially for a build like that (you would lose levels of spellscasting to do something the Totemist does better).

Yeah, but that is where my ideas of roleplaying interfer with my love of optimizing. I just can't see how the flavor of Totemist AND Apostle of Peace mix...
JaronK
03-31-08, 03:42 PM In the prerequisites it says you need VoP but later on in the class features under weapon and armor profs it says that, although they cant use armor and weapons, apostles of peace can use magic items that protect them, such as a ring of protection or bracers of armor. Doesnt this contradict the VoP?

The wording of this is very strange. It seems like the author of the Apostle didn't actually read Vow of Poverty, or perhaps wrote it while looking at an older version of the vow. I would have expected it to say something like "Apostles of Peace may use X percent of their wealth on protective magic items, despite their Vow of Poverty" if it was intended to change the vow.

As it stands, it seems like an error, but no errata has covered it.

JaronK
Sinfire Titan
03-31-08, 04:41 PM Yeah, but that is where my ideas of roleplaying interfer with my love of optimizing. I just can't see how the flavor of Totemist AND Apostle of Peace mix...

Flavor is mutable. Don't look at the books for info. Subduing Strike works just fine (nonlethal Totemist).
Damned slayer
03-31-08, 04:48 PM who says you lose your level in apostle of peace if you break VoP

you need it to enter but what if you break it after entering the class??
Sinfire Titan
03-31-08, 05:07 PM who says you lose your level in apostle of peace if you break VoP

you need it to enter but what if you break it after entering the class??

If you no longer meet the requirements for a PrC or a feat, you lose the benefits of it until you meet them again.
JaronK
03-31-08, 05:08 PM Actually, the PrC rules say that. If you no longer qualify for a PrC, you only get the BAB, saves, skills, and hitpoints from that class... nothing else. And you can't advance in it either.

Some classes contradict this (the Dragon Disciple being the most obvious one) but that is the rule.

JaronK
DeathlessJuan
03-31-08, 05:41 PM Flavor is mutable. Don't look at the books for info. Subduing Strike works just fine (nonlethal Totemist).

Hmm, can you point me to the book/page that is on? I'd like to look into it. I love totemists...
Sinfire Titan
03-31-08, 05:43 PM Hmm, can you point me to the book/page that is on? I'd like to look into it. I love totemists...

BoED, in the feats section. I prefer just a standard Totemist though, as knocking people out is for wimps. Real men aren't afraid to die in DnD.
soulphantum
04-16-08, 07:34 AM I just wanted to add that an AoP can still kill undead and constructs. As well as anything else that is not "alive"

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
feistykobold 03-26-08, 01:12 PM	Someone in my group wants to try to play an apostle of peace, but the rules in book of exalted deeds are kinda contradictory. In the prerequisites it says you need VoP but later on in the class features under weapon and armor profs it says that, although they cant use armor and weapons, apostles of peace can use magic items that protect them, such as a ring of protection or bracers of armor. Doesnt this contradict the VoP?
Sinfire Titan 03-26-08, 05:47 PM	It does. And it is a huge can of worms too. RAW, they can use any magic item that doesn't harm another person, but helps them, provided it isn't Armor or Weaponry. This overrides the VoP feats. I wouldn't allow an Apostle of Peace. The Vow of Nonviolence and Vow of Peace feats are way too powerful.
DeathlessJuan 03-27-08, 07:56 PM	Actually, Vow of Poverty prevents a character from owning any magical item or item of great value. I don't believe your friend letting you borrow a ring of protection (especially if you are 'allowing' him to take your share of the spoils) would mess with the feat at all. 'Group Loot' is different than personal loot. I could be wrong. I am away from my books at the moment but I can check when I get back
Sinfire Titan 03-28-08, 10:14 AM	Actually, Vow of Poverty prevents a character from owning any magical item or item of great value. I don't believe your friend letting you borrow a ring of protection (especially if you are 'allowing' him to take your share of the spoils) would mess with the feat at all. 'Group Loot' is different than personal loot. I could be wrong. I am away from my books at the moment but I can check when I get back VoP also prevents them from borrowing or using any item worth more than a certain price. Apostle bypasses this by RAW.
DeathlessJuan 03-28-08, 11:29 AM	VoP also prevents them from borrowing or using any item worth more than a certain price. Can you point out the page in BoED that states this? I was unable to find it. (I am not too familiar with where all the information is stored in that book.)
Zillah 03-28-08, 12:42 PM	I wouldn't allow an Apostle of Peace. The Vow of Nonviolence and Vow of Peace feats are way too powerful. r u serious?
feistykobold 03-28-08, 01:20 PM	At the very top of Page 52 in BoED it has class features of the Apostle. second paragraph under weapon and armor proficiency says the stuff about magic items. if this is so it seems that you would just get the benefits of VoP without having to follow the restrictions for magic items. you could theoretically hoard all your gold and buy just protective magic items and not donate any to the poor, which seems kinda against the whole VoP idea. And yeah it does seem like a really powerful class, considering you can still do subdual damage to anyone and do normal to undead with a massive amount of cool bonuses from the feats.
DeathlessJuan 03-28-08, 01:57 PM	I am so using Apostle of Peace. Its one of those few prestiges that give full casting progression in 10 levels. If you combine Incarnate (Magic of the Incarnum) with Apostle of Peace and then take one of the Incarnum Prestiges that boost shaping and divine magic, you will own all.
dman11235 03-28-08, 02:34 PM	True it is very powerful, but the power does come at a price. I wouldn't allow it in normal campaigns because of the restrictions it places on the party. I would allow it for specific campaigns, much like a lot of the BoED.
Sinfire Titan 03-28-08, 09:45 PM	Can you point out the page in BoED that states this? I was unable to find it. (I am not too familiar with where all the information is stored in that book.) Page 48. It says you may not "Borrow" a magic item, but they can be used on you, provided you are not the one using them. r u serious? Yes, actually. +4 to the save DCs of virtually every spell you cast, +6 to AC, a huge AoE Calm Emotions effect that they have to save against every time they enter the radius, the immunity to manufactured weapons that are unenhanced (note that most of the NPCs and radom encounters in the MM/Splatbooks only have one primary enchanted weapon, so it is easy to get rid of that weapon), and a bonus to Diplomacy checks, at the cost of two feats, one of those two feats can be easily attained via a bonus feat that grants access to an overpowered PrC that almost makes the Ur-Priest look weak Couple this with the fact that you are forcing everyone in your party into pacifism without needing their consent, and the impact that will have on party coherence. This feat is unbalanced, poorly thought out, and shouldn't be allowed in campaigns unless everyone agrees to the restrictions (which many may not). I am so using Apostle of Peace. Its one of those few prestiges that give full casting progression in 10 levels. If you combine Incarnate (Magic of the Incarnum) with Apostle of Peace and then take one of the Incarnum Prestiges that boost shaping and divine magic, you will own all. Can't be done with Incarnate. Sapphire Hierarch requires any Lawful, and the only Lawful Incarnates are LN, so they aren't Exalted. It works with Totemist, but then someone will hit you with the folding chair.
Zillah 03-29-08, 01:54 AM	i had an apostle of peace in one of the campaigns I was in. his subdual damage was pretty freakin insane. he could one shot anything. and yes i know the party was sitting there being all calm all the time. but if you read carefully, if you are attacked first while in the aura, you are allowed to attack back(the other PCs that are in the aura) I want to build one i think
DeathlessJuan 03-29-08, 04:58 PM	Can't be done with Incarnate. Sapphire Hierarch requires any Lawful, and the only Lawful Incarnates are LN, so they aren't Exalted. It works with Totemist, but then someone will hit you with the folding chair. Ah, well, soulborn then. You can be exalted at the same time. Not as good as incarnate but still owns
Sinfire Titan 03-29-08, 05:17 PM	Ah, well, soulborn then. You can be exalted at the same time. Not as good as incarnate but still owns No no no! Never use the Soulborn! (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=15324760#post15324760) Especially for a build like that (you would lose levels of spellscasting to do something the Totemist does better).
feistykobold 03-30-08, 07:17 PM	Couple this with the fact that you are forcing everyone in your party into pacifism without needing their consent, and the impact that will have on party coherence. It only says that they are not allowed to kill helpless enemies. So if the enemy is fighting back and they werent wrongfuly provoked then theyre fair game for companions.
Sinfire Titan 03-31-08, 04:50 AM	It only says that they are not allowed to kill helpless enemies. So if the enemy is fighting back and they werent wrongfuly provoked then theyre fair game for companions. I know, but some DMs enforce the Vows a lot harder than needed. This is a common one to enforce that way.
DeathlessJuan 03-31-08, 03:30 PM	No no no! Never use the Soulborn! (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=15324760#post15324760) Especially for a build like that (you would lose levels of spellscasting to do something the Totemist does better). Yeah, but that is where my ideas of roleplaying interfer with my love of optimizing. I just can't see how the flavor of Totemist AND Apostle of Peace mix...
JaronK 03-31-08, 03:42 PM	In the prerequisites it says you need VoP but later on in the class features under weapon and armor profs it says that, although they cant use armor and weapons, apostles of peace can use magic items that protect them, such as a ring of protection or bracers of armor. Doesnt this contradict the VoP? The wording of this is very strange. It seems like the author of the Apostle didn't actually read Vow of Poverty, or perhaps wrote it while looking at an older version of the vow. I would have expected it to say something like "Apostles of Peace may use X percent of their wealth on protective magic items, despite their Vow of Poverty" if it was intended to change the vow. As it stands, it seems like an error, but no errata has covered it. JaronK
Sinfire Titan 03-31-08, 04:41 PM	Yeah, but that is where my ideas of roleplaying interfer with my love of optimizing. I just can't see how the flavor of Totemist AND Apostle of Peace mix... Flavor is mutable. Don't look at the books for info. Subduing Strike works just fine (nonlethal Totemist).
Damned slayer 03-31-08, 04:48 PM	who says you lose your level in apostle of peace if you break VoP you need it to enter but what if you break it after entering the class??
Sinfire Titan 03-31-08, 05:07 PM	who says you lose your level in apostle of peace if you break VoP you need it to enter but what if you break it after entering the class?? If you no longer meet the requirements for a PrC or a feat, you lose the benefits of it until you meet them again.
JaronK 03-31-08, 05:08 PM	Actually, the PrC rules say that. If you no longer qualify for a PrC, you only get the BAB, saves, skills, and hitpoints from that class... nothing else. And you can't advance in it either. Some classes contradict this (the Dragon Disciple being the most obvious one) but that is the rule. JaronK
DeathlessJuan 03-31-08, 05:41 PM	Flavor is mutable. Don't look at the books for info. Subduing Strike works just fine (nonlethal Totemist). Hmm, can you point me to the book/page that is on? I'd like to look into it. I love totemists...
Sinfire Titan 03-31-08, 05:43 PM	Hmm, can you point me to the book/page that is on? I'd like to look into it. I love totemists... BoED, in the feats section. I prefer just a standard Totemist though, as knocking people out is for wimps. Real men aren't afraid to die in DnD.
soulphantum 04-16-08, 07:34 AM	I just wanted to add that an AoP can still kill undead and constructs. As well as anything else that is not "alive"