Arcane Archer. Any good? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane Archer. Any good? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tigron321
08-22-07, 02:26 AM I'm starting up a Half-Elf Ranger. And I was wondering if anyone sees the Arcane Archer as a good PrC? They looked pretty badass from what I've read. I was planning on taking 4 levels in Ranger, then head into Sorcerer. After I meet the requirements, I was giong to take two levels in Arcane Archer, and head back to Sorcerer, for more and better spells. Suggestions?
Tigron321
08-22-07, 03:17 AM bumpatiy!
The_Shaman
08-22-07, 07:04 AM I find it a little lacking, although two levels are okay-ish if you want to cast spells through arrows. Then again, what are spell-storing arrows for? Anyway, if you really want to and it fits your character, go ahead. It's not the most optimal choice, but 2 levels are a tolerable dip.

Anyway, ranger/sorcerer is a nasty combo as it requires good scores practically anywhere. If you do want to do it, I suggest that you get a look at the Master of the Yuirwood PrC from Unapproachable east - it can at least advance your sorcerer progression with medium BAB and some interesting abilities. Eldritch Knight or Abjurant champion - or both - are also worthwhile options. Well, your familiar does not improve, but then again, who cares?
StevenO
08-22-07, 12:04 PM First, don't bump your thread less than an hour after posting it. The CoC says you should wait 48 hours between bumps. This isn't instant messaging and this board moves slowly enough that the thread is likely to remain on the front page for a least a day.

I don't think AA is a bad class but it does require a certain mindset to see why it is useful. It is not an extremely powerful class however as many would point out that its main feature, enhanced arrows, can basically be replicated by the Greater Magic Weapon spell. Another problem with the AA is too many see the spellcasting prereq and then presume the AA should be a casting class; aside from Imbue Arrow, which only takes two levels of AA for full functionallity, nothing in the class really helps the arcane caster.

From what I read on your character concept it can work but there are much better ways to carry it out. If you are looking at four levels in Ranger I definitely recommend looking at the Abjurant Champ (Complete Mage) to increase spellcasting beyond the first casting class. Reading your intended start I'd work towards Ranger4/ Sorcerer2 /Abjurant Champ5/ AA2 although you can take AA before finishing AbC; at 13th level you have a +12 BAB and 7th level casting. Past this I'd look at Spellsword and/or Eldritch Knight.
Tigron321
08-22-07, 04:32 PM I see the abbreviation BAB all the time. What's it stand for exactly?
dman11235
08-22-07, 05:03 PM Base Attack Bonus.
Tigron321
08-22-07, 05:13 PM What other suggestions would someone make to a Half-Elf Ranger focusing on archery? I like the Arcane Archer, and I didn't plan on staying in it more then 2 levels or so, before going back into Scorcerer. But then if I did that, I'd have no base attack whatsoever. Anyone know of any other PrC's someone could take for a ranger, that'd give him fun, yet dangerous capabilities?
Gadren
08-22-07, 05:19 PM You might want to check out http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=832086
Its an elf-only ranger prestige class that basically gives up your animal companion for arcane power. It has worked very well in my game so far.
I know most DMs are reluctant to include such prestige classes designed on bulletin boards in their games, but I have continually tweaked it off of input from four different forums to get it to its current "finished" state.
It's also won some contests too.
So anyways, check it out.
Lorindale
08-22-07, 05:25 PM Base Attack Bonus

The Arcane Archer was, back in 3e, among the most most efficient and powerful of the warrior type classes. However, now, in 3.5, a properly equipped Fighter specializing in bow-related feats will win out every time. My own preference for a bowman is to multiclass Ftr/Rgr, taking no more than 4 levels of Fighter (after 4 the feat to level payout drops and I prefer the increased skill points from Ranger, but that's just my own bias and others may differ in opinion). After 7th level, your bowman is going to be about as powerful as you can make him with regards to shooting ability, the rest is just finding a bow with a +1 or better and having it enhanced to improve its damage (flaming, ice, bane, or whatever). If you really want to cast arcane spells a level, or maybe 2, of Sorcerer or Wizard or Bard (Wizard, I think, is a better choice since an Intelligence bonus is useful for extra skill points and you get a free feat, although Bard has more skill points and better saving throws) will allow you to use wands, which are cheap and don't require a large investment like gaining a level to be good.
Tigron321
08-22-07, 05:56 PM Garden, I really like that TreeShield Clan guy. Very nice, however, would it work just as well with perhaps sorcerer levels insted of wizard? The campaign we're in at the moment, there aren't any actual arcane casters. So a sorcerer is more believeable. More of a... hey, where did these powers come from sorta thing moreso then developing them by learning.
StevenO
08-22-07, 06:21 PM If you aren't looking at taking multiple shots a turn (which you probably should be doing) the Order of the Bow Initiate (CW) can greatly increase the damage on your one shot per turn. I'd often consider the OotBI in archery builds because of good Reflex and Will save with two levels giving me Close Combat shot (ranged attacks without an AoO) and Greater Weapon Focus at 4th level.

Also in the Complete Warrior I'd look at the Darkwood Stalker for my elven rangers. Although it may not matter you that become fearsome vs. orc (some DMs would allow you to change the ancient foe to some other target) you also get Uncanny Dodge (and Improved UD) which is great for your high Dex, Darkvision which can be helpful, and a few dice for Sneak Attack which increases your damage.

If you really want some real spellcasting in what is primarily a warrior build you really need Abjurant Champion. Giving up one BAB to take a spellcasting class (and taking a generally poor feat) now lets you get another five caster levels which makes all the other full BAB casting classes available. The biggest drawback to the AbC is the +5 BAB prereq for entry which really slows a caster's access to the class while ensuring a warrior's spell power wouldn't be too great.
Gadren
08-23-07, 12:26 PM Garden, I really like that TreeShield Clan guy. Very nice, however, would it work just as well with perhaps sorcerer levels insted of wizard? The campaign we're in at the moment, there aren't any actual arcane casters. So a sorcerer is more believeable. More of a... hey, where did these powers come from sorta thing moreso then developing them by learning.

Any arcane caster can qualify for the class, its just the wizards are the best option. Sorcerers, beguilers, or even duskblades and bards could enter the class, as long as they got the two levels in ranger.
FEADIN1
08-25-07, 09:41 AM I think that the AA could have a spellcasting progression once every 2 level, losing the good Reflex save table to balance.
I'm going that way in my campaign.
dman11235
08-25-07, 12:44 PM It does need SC to be worth it, but I do spell casting at every level besides 2, 4, 6, and 8. And drop fort save, not reflex.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tigron321 08-22-07, 02:26 AM	I'm starting up a Half-Elf Ranger. And I was wondering if anyone sees the Arcane Archer as a good PrC? They looked pretty badass from what I've read. I was planning on taking 4 levels in Ranger, then head into Sorcerer. After I meet the requirements, I was giong to take two levels in Arcane Archer, and head back to Sorcerer, for more and better spells. Suggestions?
Tigron321 08-22-07, 03:17 AM	bumpatiy!
The_Shaman 08-22-07, 07:04 AM	I find it a little lacking, although two levels are okay-ish if you want to cast spells through arrows. Then again, what are spell-storing arrows for? Anyway, if you really want to and it fits your character, go ahead. It's not the most optimal choice, but 2 levels are a tolerable dip. Anyway, ranger/sorcerer is a nasty combo as it requires good scores practically anywhere. If you do want to do it, I suggest that you get a look at the Master of the Yuirwood PrC from Unapproachable east - it can at least advance your sorcerer progression with medium BAB and some interesting abilities. Eldritch Knight or Abjurant champion - or both - are also worthwhile options. Well, your familiar does not improve, but then again, who cares?
StevenO 08-22-07, 12:04 PM	First, don't bump your thread less than an hour after posting it. The CoC says you should wait 48 hours between bumps. This isn't instant messaging and this board moves slowly enough that the thread is likely to remain on the front page for a least a day. I don't think AA is a bad class but it does require a certain mindset to see why it is useful. It is not an extremely powerful class however as many would point out that its main feature, enhanced arrows, can basically be replicated by the Greater Magic Weapon spell. Another problem with the AA is too many see the spellcasting prereq and then presume the AA should be a casting class; aside from Imbue Arrow, which only takes two levels of AA for full functionallity, nothing in the class really helps the arcane caster. From what I read on your character concept it can work but there are much better ways to carry it out. If you are looking at four levels in Ranger I definitely recommend looking at the Abjurant Champ (Complete Mage) to increase spellcasting beyond the first casting class. Reading your intended start I'd work towards Ranger4/ Sorcerer2 /Abjurant Champ5/ AA2 although you can take AA before finishing AbC; at 13th level you have a +12 BAB and 7th level casting. Past this I'd look at Spellsword and/or Eldritch Knight.
Tigron321 08-22-07, 04:32 PM	I see the abbreviation BAB all the time. What's it stand for exactly?
dman11235 08-22-07, 05:03 PM	Base Attack Bonus.
Tigron321 08-22-07, 05:13 PM	What other suggestions would someone make to a Half-Elf Ranger focusing on archery? I like the Arcane Archer, and I didn't plan on staying in it more then 2 levels or so, before going back into Scorcerer. But then if I did that, I'd have no base attack whatsoever. Anyone know of any other PrC's someone could take for a ranger, that'd give him fun, yet dangerous capabilities?
Gadren 08-22-07, 05:19 PM	You might want to check out http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=832086 Its an elf-only ranger prestige class that basically gives up your animal companion for arcane power. It has worked very well in my game so far. I know most DMs are reluctant to include such prestige classes designed on bulletin boards in their games, but I have continually tweaked it off of input from four different forums to get it to its current "finished" state. It's also won some contests too. So anyways, check it out.
Lorindale 08-22-07, 05:25 PM	Base Attack Bonus The Arcane Archer was, back in 3e, among the most most efficient and powerful of the warrior type classes. However, now, in 3.5, a properly equipped Fighter specializing in bow-related feats will win out every time. My own preference for a bowman is to multiclass Ftr/Rgr, taking no more than 4 levels of Fighter (after 4 the feat to level payout drops and I prefer the increased skill points from Ranger, but that's just my own bias and others may differ in opinion). After 7th level, your bowman is going to be about as powerful as you can make him with regards to shooting ability, the rest is just finding a bow with a +1 or better and having it enhanced to improve its damage (flaming, ice, bane, or whatever). If you really want to cast arcane spells a level, or maybe 2, of Sorcerer or Wizard or Bard (Wizard, I think, is a better choice since an Intelligence bonus is useful for extra skill points and you get a free feat, although Bard has more skill points and better saving throws) will allow you to use wands, which are cheap and don't require a large investment like gaining a level to be good.
Tigron321 08-22-07, 05:56 PM	Garden, I really like that TreeShield Clan guy. Very nice, however, would it work just as well with perhaps sorcerer levels insted of wizard? The campaign we're in at the moment, there aren't any actual arcane casters. So a sorcerer is more believeable. More of a... hey, where did these powers come from sorta thing moreso then developing them by learning.
StevenO 08-22-07, 06:21 PM	If you aren't looking at taking multiple shots a turn (which you probably should be doing) the Order of the Bow Initiate (CW) can greatly increase the damage on your one shot per turn. I'd often consider the OotBI in archery builds because of good Reflex and Will save with two levels giving me Close Combat shot (ranged attacks without an AoO) and Greater Weapon Focus at 4th level. Also in the Complete Warrior I'd look at the Darkwood Stalker for my elven rangers. Although it may not matter you that become fearsome vs. orc (some DMs would allow you to change the ancient foe to some other target) you also get Uncanny Dodge (and Improved UD) which is great for your high Dex, Darkvision which can be helpful, and a few dice for Sneak Attack which increases your damage. If you really want some real spellcasting in what is primarily a warrior build you really need Abjurant Champion. Giving up one BAB to take a spellcasting class (and taking a generally poor feat) now lets you get another five caster levels which makes all the other full BAB casting classes available. The biggest drawback to the AbC is the +5 BAB prereq for entry which really slows a caster's access to the class while ensuring a warrior's spell power wouldn't be too great.
Gadren 08-23-07, 12:26 PM	Garden, I really like that TreeShield Clan guy. Very nice, however, would it work just as well with perhaps sorcerer levels insted of wizard? The campaign we're in at the moment, there aren't any actual arcane casters. So a sorcerer is more believeable. More of a... hey, where did these powers come from sorta thing moreso then developing them by learning. Any arcane caster can qualify for the class, its just the wizards are the best option. Sorcerers, beguilers, or even duskblades and bards could enter the class, as long as they got the two levels in ranger.
FEADIN1 08-25-07, 09:41 AM	I think that the AA could have a spellcasting progression once every 2 level, losing the good Reflex save table to balance. I'm going that way in my campaign.
dman11235 08-25-07, 12:44 PM	It does need SC to be worth it, but I do spell casting at every level besides 2, 4, 6, and 8. And drop fort save, not reflex.