Arcane Swordsman [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane Swordsman [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Hideous Phidias
08-07-07, 12:17 AM I maybe needing a new character soon in the urban campaign I am now. I did something to another player and now I am paying for it. Sewers and Butter-knives. Well anyways to the point I was thinking about a sorcerer character. I want to play a sorcerer swordsman. I most likely going half-human or elf and using stalwart sorcerer with the fey heritage feats. We use flaws and geta background feat too,so I am not worried about feats to much. I am looking for options on prestige classes. If I missed any tell me and why you like it or why I should think about it. Thanks

The list so far:
Spellsword CW
Bladesinger CW
Bladesinger RoF
Swiftblade WotC WS
CyperionTheShadeBlade
08-07-07, 09:00 AM It's not a prestige class, but if you've got acces to PHB 2, a Duskblade is not that bad for a Gish. Give him Arcane Strike, Power Attack, and let him have True Strike and Shocking Grasp, and he can dish out pretty decent amounts of damage, and a great chance at hitting at 5th level (or sooner, but at 5th level he gets to quick cast a spell once a day, so it takes just single round). And as an intellegence based caster, he'll have a half-way decent number of skills points, which is often good in an urban campaign.
TiwazTyrsfist
08-07-07, 01:53 PM I don't know if you've ever picked up Tome of Battle: Book of the 9 swords, but you might like that.

A Swordsage would really give the same feel.
Doesn't actually cast spells, but a number of their maneuvers produce effects similar to spells.
Or you could Dual class between a Martial Class (like swordsage) and sorcerer, then go into the Jade Phoenix Mage PrC (ToB) which grants more maneuvers, as well as 8/10 spell casting and other special abilities.
Hideous Phidias
08-08-07, 03:06 AM I have, but did not like it. I am one of the no tome of battle guys. I always felt that a wizard should be able to out do a fighter of the same level but only in damage. There is a reason the fighter gets a d10 and the wizard gets a d4. A fighter should be able to take a spell or two while a wizard has little chance in melee with out a spell to buff himself or other trick. The ToB class act like Arcane casters with fighter hit dice and BAB. I think the classes are ok if you like that sort of thing but I am old school about it. So thanks for the post but I just don't want togo down that road.

I may go with the duskblade. I was hoping to maybe make a good go at a sorcerer swordsman but if I can not get it to work out with a prestige class then Duskblade is my fall back plan
DM Zoc
08-08-07, 04:05 AM The Eldritch Knight, core PrC, is not bad. One level lost to a class that grants martial weapon proficiencies, one caster level lost to the PrC, and you can still end up with 9th level spells in the end.
RGard
08-08-07, 10:03 PM I maybe needing a new character soon in the urban campaign I am now. I did something to another player and now I am paying for it. Sewers and Butter-knives. Well anyways to the point I was thinking about a sorcerer character. I want to play a sorcerer swordsman. I most likely going half-human or elf and using stalwart sorcerer with the fey heritage feats. We use flaws and geta background feat too,so I am not worried about feats to much. I am looking for options on prestige classes. If I missed any tell me and why you like it or why I should think about it. Thanks

The list so far:
Spellsword CW
Bladesinger CW
Bladesinger RoF
Swiftblade WotC WS

Maybe Battle Sorcerer from UA? It's also in the SRD.
Pantorts
08-11-07, 03:27 AM Try the Arcane Duelist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a). It's 3.0, I believe, and it does not have any casting, but see for yourself.
Propane
08-11-07, 04:55 AM Daggerspell mage, p31 Complete Adventurer.
Tempest Stormwind
08-11-07, 12:24 PM I have, but did not like it. I am one of the no tome of battle guys. I always felt that a wizard should be able to out do a fighter of the same level but only in damage. There is a reason the fighter gets a d10 and the wizard gets a d4. A fighter should be able to take a spell or two while a wizard has little chance in melee with out a spell to buff himself or other trick. The ToB class act like Arcane casters with fighter hit dice and BAB. I think the classes are ok if you like that sort of thing but I am old school about it. So thanks for the post but I just don't want togo down that road.

I've never seen such an incorrect and presumptious 'understanding' of the Tome of Battle. Ever. Your argument is that they're doing what casters do? Bollocks. Their damage is less impressive, they can't create walls or fogs on the battlefield, they can't buff their allies or debuff their enemies, and they can't control the actions of others short of throwing them (which is fundamentally tripping, something any ol' fighter could do). Essentially, the Tome is just melee, with options. These options typically include non-damage but ultimately physical options that work well with mobility.

Why do I get the impression you read Desert Wind and then gave up on the book? The swordsage is NOTHING like the other two, and not all of them use Desert Wind. (Really, the only desert wind maneuvers worth using are burning blade (ooh, flaming sword for a round), flashing sun (flurry of blows), and that single counter that moves you next to an attacker when hit (since swordsages can't use ranged weaponry...).). This is even setting aside the fact that the swordsage -- "Blade Wizard" -- is, for all flavor purposes, a warrior-mage just like those you're trying to build. (Or rather, *can* be. I game with two of them in one game at the moment -- one plays like a melee warmage, the other plays like a trip-happy fighter.)

Now, to answer your question, you're looking for a gish. Going from memory:
BASE CLASSES:
Duskblade (blasting)
Hexblade (cursing)
Psychic warrior (buffing)
Battle Sorcerer (full sorcerer casting)
Binder (sort of; versatile all-day magic and melee that varies day-by-day)
Swordsage (melee-range blasting)
PRESTIGE CLASSES
Eldritch Knight
Spellsword
Bladesinger
Abjurant Champion
Dragonslayer
Elocater
Fist of Zuoken (provides casting rather than advances it)
Illithid Slayer
Iron Mind
Master of Yuirwood
Psychic Weapon Master
Rage Mage
Suel Arcanamach (provides casting rather than advances it)
Raumathari Battlemage
Sacred Exorcist
Jade Phoenix Mage
Vassal of Bahamut (provides casting rather than advances it)
War Mind (provides casting rather than advances it)
Arcane Duelist (sort of a melee arcane archer; this one's ludicrously strong but no spells)
Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) (WTFOMG powerful)
Daggerspell Mage
Forchlucan Lyrist (if you can qualify)
Ordained Champion
Fist of the Forest

...There's probably others, too. So, yeah, you missed a few.

There's also countless incredible builds on just this very archetype. Might I suggest you go here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=482636) and search for "gish" (which is the word for a warrior-mage)?
TheMonk
08-11-07, 12:34 PM My opinion - spellsword. Fighter/wizard combo. Lots of nice skills as you have the skill points (cross class skills are also a good thing, as your skill point pool will increase gradually). Aside from that you can use armor, ignore spell failure with that armor with enough levels, decent spell progression, good melle abilites, and the channel spell ability will make you quite powerful and able to deal with threats fast and efficient.

Although daggerspell mage is also something very nice, just make sure you take spells to allow you to use sneak attack more frequently (flank stuff with mirror image, invisibility, improved invisibility, charms etc). But don't forget you need damage for creatures immune against critical hits, so prepare some spells for that, and some scrolls.

Well just my 2 cents here ^^

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hideous Phidias 08-07-07, 12:17 AM	I maybe needing a new character soon in the urban campaign I am now. I did something to another player and now I am paying for it. Sewers and Butter-knives. Well anyways to the point I was thinking about a sorcerer character. I want to play a sorcerer swordsman. I most likely going half-human or elf and using stalwart sorcerer with the fey heritage feats. We use flaws and geta background feat too,so I am not worried about feats to much. I am looking for options on prestige classes. If I missed any tell me and why you like it or why I should think about it. Thanks The list so far: Spellsword CW Bladesinger CW Bladesinger RoF Swiftblade WotC WS
CyperionTheShadeBlade 08-07-07, 09:00 AM	It's not a prestige class, but if you've got acces to PHB 2, a Duskblade is not that bad for a Gish. Give him Arcane Strike, Power Attack, and let him have True Strike and Shocking Grasp, and he can dish out pretty decent amounts of damage, and a great chance at hitting at 5th level (or sooner, but at 5th level he gets to quick cast a spell once a day, so it takes just single round). And as an intellegence based caster, he'll have a half-way decent number of skills points, which is often good in an urban campaign.
TiwazTyrsfist 08-07-07, 01:53 PM	I don't know if you've ever picked up Tome of Battle: Book of the 9 swords, but you might like that. A Swordsage would really give the same feel. Doesn't actually cast spells, but a number of their maneuvers produce effects similar to spells. Or you could Dual class between a Martial Class (like swordsage) and sorcerer, then go into the Jade Phoenix Mage PrC (ToB) which grants more maneuvers, as well as 8/10 spell casting and other special abilities.
Hideous Phidias 08-08-07, 03:06 AM	I have, but did not like it. I am one of the no tome of battle guys. I always felt that a wizard should be able to out do a fighter of the same level but only in damage. There is a reason the fighter gets a d10 and the wizard gets a d4. A fighter should be able to take a spell or two while a wizard has little chance in melee with out a spell to buff himself or other trick. The ToB class act like Arcane casters with fighter hit dice and BAB. I think the classes are ok if you like that sort of thing but I am old school about it. So thanks for the post but I just don't want togo down that road. I may go with the duskblade. I was hoping to maybe make a good go at a sorcerer swordsman but if I can not get it to work out with a prestige class then Duskblade is my fall back plan
DM Zoc 08-08-07, 04:05 AM	The Eldritch Knight, core PrC, is not bad. One level lost to a class that grants martial weapon proficiencies, one caster level lost to the PrC, and you can still end up with 9th level spells in the end.
RGard 08-08-07, 10:03 PM	I maybe needing a new character soon in the urban campaign I am now. I did something to another player and now I am paying for it. Sewers and Butter-knives. Well anyways to the point I was thinking about a sorcerer character. I want to play a sorcerer swordsman. I most likely going half-human or elf and using stalwart sorcerer with the fey heritage feats. We use flaws and geta background feat too,so I am not worried about feats to much. I am looking for options on prestige classes. If I missed any tell me and why you like it or why I should think about it. Thanks The list so far: Spellsword CW Bladesinger CW Bladesinger RoF Swiftblade WotC WS Maybe Battle Sorcerer from UA? It's also in the SRD.
Pantorts 08-11-07, 03:27 AM	Try the Arcane Duelist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a). It's 3.0, I believe, and it does not have any casting, but see for yourself.
Propane 08-11-07, 04:55 AM	Daggerspell mage, p31 Complete Adventurer.
Tempest Stormwind 08-11-07, 12:24 PM	I have, but did not like it. I am one of the no tome of battle guys. I always felt that a wizard should be able to out do a fighter of the same level but only in damage. There is a reason the fighter gets a d10 and the wizard gets a d4. A fighter should be able to take a spell or two while a wizard has little chance in melee with out a spell to buff himself or other trick. The ToB class act like Arcane casters with fighter hit dice and BAB. I think the classes are ok if you like that sort of thing but I am old school about it. So thanks for the post but I just don't want togo down that road. I've never seen such an incorrect and presumptious 'understanding' of the Tome of Battle. Ever. Your argument is that they're doing what casters do? Bollocks. Their damage is less impressive, they can't create walls or fogs on the battlefield, they can't buff their allies or debuff their enemies, and they can't control the actions of others short of throwing them (which is fundamentally tripping, something any ol' fighter could do). Essentially, the Tome is just melee, with options. These options typically include non-damage but ultimately physical options that work well with mobility. Why do I get the impression you read Desert Wind and then gave up on the book? The swordsage is NOTHING like the other two, and not all of them use Desert Wind. (Really, the only desert wind maneuvers worth using are burning blade (ooh, flaming sword for a round), flashing sun (flurry of blows), and that single counter that moves you next to an attacker when hit (since swordsages can't use ranged weaponry...).). This is even setting aside the fact that the swordsage -- "Blade Wizard" -- is, for all flavor purposes, a warrior-mage just like those you're trying to build. (Or rather, can be. I game with two of them in one game at the moment -- one plays like a melee warmage, the other plays like a trip-happy fighter.) Now, to answer your question, you're looking for a gish. Going from memory: BASE CLASSES: Duskblade (blasting) Hexblade (cursing) Psychic warrior (buffing) Battle Sorcerer (full sorcerer casting) Binder (sort of; versatile all-day magic and melee that varies day-by-day) Swordsage (melee-range blasting) PRESTIGE CLASSES Eldritch Knight Spellsword Bladesinger Abjurant Champion Dragonslayer Elocater Fist of Zuoken (provides casting rather than advances it) Illithid Slayer Iron Mind Master of Yuirwood Psychic Weapon Master Rage Mage Suel Arcanamach (provides casting rather than advances it) Raumathari Battlemage Sacred Exorcist Jade Phoenix Mage Vassal of Bahamut (provides casting rather than advances it) War Mind (provides casting rather than advances it) Arcane Duelist (sort of a melee arcane archer; this one's ludicrously strong but no spells) Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) (WTFOMG powerful) Daggerspell Mage Forchlucan Lyrist (if you can qualify) Ordained Champion Fist of the Forest ...There's probably others, too. So, yeah, you missed a few. There's also countless incredible builds on just this very archetype. Might I suggest you go here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=482636) and search for "gish" (which is the word for a warrior-mage)?
TheMonk 08-11-07, 12:34 PM	My opinion - spellsword. Fighter/wizard combo. Lots of nice skills as you have the skill points (cross class skills are also a good thing, as your skill point pool will increase gradually). Aside from that you can use armor, ignore spell failure with that armor with enough levels, decent spell progression, good melle abilites, and the channel spell ability will make you quite powerful and able to deal with threats fast and efficient. Although daggerspell mage is also something very nice, just make sure you take spells to allow you to use sneak attack more frequently (flank stuff with mirror image, invisibility, improved invisibility, charms etc). But don't forget you need damage for creatures immune against critical hits, so prepare some spells for that, and some scrolls. Well just my 2 cents here ^^